Some 12step free help links can be found at http://www.morerevealed.com/misc/orglinks.jsp

Another interesting idea that seems to go counter to the guidelines here as well as at 12step meetings is that one can't realistically have serious discussions while pretending that politics and religion are irrelavant or even seperable from most subject matter, as discribed here from agent orange's site I think.

It totally ignores all social issues.
A.A. says that the answer to all social problems is the Twelve Steps, and that all of your problems are of your own making. Like the Oxford Group before it, Alcoholics Anonymous believes that all social problems are caused by sin, and only by sin. A.A. will not look at any of the causes of alcoholism, like poverty, racism, child abuse, lack of education, lack of opportunities, or injustice.

A.A., along with all of the other 12-step recovery groups, is not only apolitical, it is downright anti-political. This, combined with the anti-intellectualism listed above, makes the A.A. organization a corrupt politician's dream come true -- those people just will not do anything to rock the boat or threaten the status quo. It is no surprise that fascist dictators like having A.A. in their countries, and Latin America is one of the biggest growth areas for A.A..

Indeed, an organization that tries to ignore all societal causes of social problems "and to concern itself not at all as to the way in which the corporate life of society is organized" ... "enters the social arena inevitably on the side of reaction". In other words, it becomes fascistic in nature.

The only apparent exception to the rule of ignoring the societal causes of alcoholism is that A.A. recognizes that past child abuse, being an Adult Child Of Alcoholics, contributes to alcoholism. And the fix is: Join ACOA, do the Twelve Steps, read the Book, go to lots of meetings, etc... And make amends by apologizing for being angry about getting beaten or molested. And for other family members, the answer is to join Al-Anon or Alateen, and do the Twelve Steps, go to lots of meetings, etc...

Take care ~Down