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Guest
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Mar 24, 2019 at 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by guilloche
Nice! Thanks for posting the quotes!
And yup. I'm single, and in my mid-40s now, and for lots of reasons never felt like I *wanted* kids. I think it's only been recently, as I've gotten older and had the chance to see some people (much saner people than my parents) who really enjoy parenting and have great kids and a happy family, that I've started to slightly understand why anyone would want that.
Honestly, I grew up feeling like *I* was a burden, and kids in general were a pain-in-the-butt. On top of that, my brother had a ton of problems and was scary/violent growing up. I remember being in college, feeling like I had finally "escaped", and wondering why on earth I'd want to risk having kids, if that's how bad it can be.
My only weirdness... I've got a friend who used to be my manager. Fantastic guy, great dad to his kids, was a wonderful manager and I really enjoy talking to him. We were talking about this at one point, and I mentioned that I didn't want kids... in part because I felt like there was a lot that I wanted to do for myself, and I didn't think I had it in me to make the sacrifices necessary to put kids first.
He told me that was incredibly selfish.
Well, yeah. I guess by definition it IS. But, at the same time, it seems better to recognize that you're not cut out for the level of sacrifice necessary to be a great parent, and to not have kids at all... rather than to try anyway and be miserable (and possibly end up hurting the kids too, in the process).
*shrug*. It stung in the moment, but I also realize there's so much about my life that he doesn't understand, that his view isn't really reflective of my reality.
Heck, I haven't dated in... like 20 years? Since college... so even if I *wanted* to start a family, it's not like there's anyone around to help. And since I can barely handle taking care of myself some days, I definitely don't feel well-suited to taking care of kids on my own!
Maybe part of the problem is that we can't really openly talk about mental health in our society. And that plays a big role here, at least for me. If I hadn't grown up in a neglectful crazy family with a brother that regularly tried to kill me, if I hadn't had other traumas, if I had come from a loving and supportive family... maybe I'd be better at relationships, dating, and maybe the idea of having kids would just make sense to me.
I realize that's not the case for everyone, but for me, I just don't know. It's like there were so many things kind of stacked against me going down that path... it just never really was an actual option for me, in a way.
But other than that one friend, I don't tend to talk about it with people.
Oh! But I did go through a phase where my mom was *crazy* about wanting grandkids. O...M...G.... it drove me crazy. Not just asking about *me* having them (to which I'd reply, "with who? Who do you think is going to be the baby daddy in this situation mom, given that I'm not dating?!" - to her asking about my sister and her boyfriend, and if I thought they'd have kids.
At one point my grandfather actually brought up how sad my mom was that she didn't have any grandkids.
*Sigh*.
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Hello Guilloche,
thank you very much for sharing your truth here. I am so sorry that you had a painful childhood...the behaviors of your brother sounded very frightening. You deserved a safe, peaceful, and loving childhood. I am sorry that was not your reality. 
It makes sense to me that after a very difficult and unstable upbringing, you would not be drawn to the idea of having children. I do not think you are alone in that. Though, as you astutely noted, these conversations are often not easy to have in society therefore many people could be silently agreeing with you.
Your friend/manager's comment that you are "incredibly selfish" for choosing to not have children was WAY over the line. Here's a thought for you - is it possible that he was not actually responding to your life choice/beliefs at all but his own....sounds to me like you unwittingly hit a nerve with him and he reacted to what was triggered within him. We of course cannot know what is in that man's mind or soul but it's worth thinking about. In general, when a person oversteps or says something cruel, it's typically not about the receiver...it is indicative of something going on with the giver of the comment. If you see what I mean.
Here are my thoughts on the "people who don't have children are selfish" idea in society. (Btw, my father used to say that on a regular basis and he was an abusive parent...interesting, right?)
When a woman decides not to have children (for whatever reason) that is NOT an act of selfishness. It is the decision of an emotionally intelligent, wise, and LOVING person. Yes! I said loving! To bring another life into this world, one that a person is not able (for any reason) to adequately care for, support, and love is not a healthy or selfless thing to do. It will inherently cause suffering to the child who is not wanted. There are so many parents in this world abusing and neglecting their children. Are those parents selfish? Yet strong and loving women who do not want a baby and wisely choose to not have one are deemed selfish??! That’s completely backwards!
There’s actually a yogi who, believe it or not, says that modern women who choose not to procreate should be given an award! He believes that with the current birth rate, the world will not be able to sustain the human population in 50 years. He thinks fewer people should be having children. And yet, there’s still this intense and bizarre bias in society that people MUST have babies. All people! That’s an extreme notion. Extremes are usually illogical and unhelpful. We don’t have to accept them.
Oscar Wilde had something very helpful to say:
“Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live. And unselfishness is letting other people's lives alone, not interfering with them. Selfishness always aims at creating around it an absolute uniformity of type. Unselfishness recognizes infinite variety of type as a delightful thing, accepts it, acquiesces in it, enjoys it. It is not selfish to think for oneself. A man who does not think for himself does not think at all. It is grossly selfish to require of one's neighbor that he should think in the same way, and hold the same opinions. Why should he? If he can think, he will probably think differently. If he cannot think, it is monstrous to require thought of any kind from him. A red rose is not selfish because it wants to be a red rose. It would be horribly selfish if it wanted all the other flowers in the garden to be both red and roses.”
With regard to your mother and grandfather....there are no wrong feelings. If they feel sad about a lack of grandchildren, then that is how they feel. However, what is NOT okay is to place that sadness upon you, so to speak. They need to deal with that sadness themselves and leave you out of it. Because your decision whether or not to procreate is your decision and nobody else's business.
Remember Guilloche, you aren't selfish for not being a red rose. If you are a different colored rose, or a different flower entirely, you remain a beautiful and valuable flower in the garden. Your petals and stem and color are no less than any of the other flowers. I for one am glad to share the garden with you and all of the other thoughtful and loving women who joined this thread...whether they have babies or not! 
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