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Default Oct 11, 2019 at 03:09 AM
  #1
I am fairly new. I do not know where this post goes.

I feel like I am addicted to this forum. Since my first day, I have been reading and posting every day. I never really did that with FB. I mean, maybe at one point in my life I was on FB a lot.

Not sure if posting and reading here is addictive, but it is helping me daily with adjusting with an out-of-state move all by myself. Perhaps I am just lonely right now and do not have many real life things to do at the moment.
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Default Oct 11, 2019 at 03:43 AM
  #2
I was addicted for a while too (this is not my first username) but I think I was that way because I was trying to figure things out about my life and mental health. Now that I have--I try to just post and look in the morning. I also made it part of my routine not to use my computer very much in the afternoon and especially during the evening. Maybe force yourself to do other things (work, errands, walks, cleaning, movies, etc.) that get you away from the computer for a while everyday?
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Default Oct 11, 2019 at 04:19 AM
  #3
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Originally Posted by TunedOut View Post
I was addicted for a while too (this is not my first username) but I think I was that way because I was trying to figure things out about my life and mental health. Now that I have--I try to just post and look in the morning. I also made it part of my routine not to use my computer very much in the afternoon and especially during the evening. Maybe force yourself to do other things (work, errands, walks, cleaning, movies, etc.) that get you away from the computer for a while everyday?
Thank you. Yes, I need to do more non-computer stuff. Movies are a great option, but I tend to be addicted to those, too. It is the socialization I am lacking, even when I had friends nearby. I would always recluse.
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Default Oct 11, 2019 at 06:31 AM
  #4
There’s a huge difference between Facebook and PC (what I call faceless book). You have discovered a great resource and outlet and are consumed with it right now (I was too).

After I came to terms with a lot of issues, I now come on much less and don’t feel addicted anymore.

I hope PC is helping you. I think it did help me. At the least, I feel there’s some need in all of us to get our stories out, off our chests so to speak, and that helps with healing.

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Default Oct 11, 2019 at 08:24 AM
  #5
What about scheduling your time on PC with yourself? Just set some time, you'll have to decide how much, and then try to stick to only that time for your reading and posting activities. Once the time is up, you're done for the day. If you haven't finished everything you wanted to read/write, there's always tomorrow. That's a fairly easy way to do it, I would think.

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Default Oct 11, 2019 at 08:58 AM
  #6
Hey @lillib

I do not think you are addicted unless there are negative consequences from PC. But it seems like it helps you.
Quote:
ad·dic·tion (ə-dĭk′shən)
n.
1.
a. A condition involving use of a substance, such as a drug or alcohol, or engagement in a behavior, such as gambling, in which a person has strong cravings, is unable to stop or limit the activity, continues the activity despite harmful consequences, and experiences distress upon discontinuance: a drug used in the treatment of heroin addiction.
b. An instance of this: a person with a sex addiction.
2.
a. The condition of being habitually occupied with or involved in something: addiction to romance novels.
b. The condition of using something on a regular or dependent basis: fossil fuel addiction.
c. An instance of one of these conditions: had an addiction to fast cars.
addiction (əˈdɪkʃən)
n
the condition of being abnormally dependent on some habit, esp compulsive dependency on narcotic drugs
ad•dic•tion (əˈdɪk ʃən)

n.
dependence on or commitment to a habit, practice, or habit-forming substance to the extent that its cessation causes trauma.
ad·dic·tion (ə-dĭk′shən)
1. A physical or psychological need for a habit-forming substance, such as drugs or alcohol.
2. A habitual or compulsive involvement in an activity, such as gambling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lillib View Post
I am fairly new. I do not know where this post goes.

I feel like I am addicted to this forum. Since my first day, I have been reading and posting every day. I never really did that with FB. I mean, maybe at one point in my life I was on FB a lot.

Not sure if posting and reading here is addictive, but it is helping me daily with adjusting with an out-of-state move all by myself. Perhaps I am just lonely right now and do not have many real life things to do at the moment.

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Smile Oct 11, 2019 at 02:46 PM
  #7
I sometimes think I'm addicted as well...

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Default Oct 11, 2019 at 02:52 PM
  #8
@sarahsweets

Thank you. I think you are RIGHT in that PC helps me and it doesn't really fall within the categorization of addiction per se. Internet addiction has not yet been recognized by the DSM, though research on the subject is in the making.

There are other newer addictions added to the DSM, including caffeine addiction and addictions probably not otherwise specified (e.g., I once met a person who was addicted to cough syrup in a trauma treatment center a decade ago when I was in-patient).

That said, PsychCentral offers the following quiz and information/articles on Internet Addiction (or sometimes replaced with mobile phone addiction):

Internet Addiction Test: Are you addicted to your smartphone?

Internet Addiction and Depression

Internet Addiction Guide | Psych Central

Not in the DSM-5: Internet Addiction & Parental Alienation Disorder

Why Internet Addiction Still Doesn't Exist

https://psychcentral.com/blog/is-int...ntal-disorder/

https://psychcentral.com/blog/whats-...r-in-the-news/

https://psychcentral.com/blog/intern...chinese-teens/

https://psychcentral.com/blog/china-...isons-addicts/

https://psychcentral.com/blog/moms-internet-addiction/

Here are more articles on Internet Addiction that are described at the following websites:

https://www.psycom.net/iadcriteria.html

http://www.addictionrecov.org/Addict...ex.aspx?AID=43

https://www.addictioncenter.com/drug...net-addiction/

https://www.everydayhealth.com/inter...diction/guide/

https://www.psychguides.com/behavior...net-addiction/

https://www.verywellmind.com/internet-addiction-4157289

And here is some research on the subject:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3480687/

Google Scholar Search from 2018-2019 indexed over 1k articles/books/etc. when I searched "internet addiction disorder" (quotations included): https://scholar.google.com/scholar?a...en&as_sdt=0,13
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Default Oct 11, 2019 at 03:05 PM
  #9
@sarahsweets

Millions or billions of people use their computers and the Internet to study in school, to conduct work, to take online courses, to join an online support group, etc. We cannot say that millions of people are addicted to the internet because their work and home lives comprise many hours per day/week on the computer/Internet. It's a new tool used to communicate, share work, share ideas, seek help, and even get online therapy. The VA has apps that are really cool to use at times for different disorders, which I think anyone can download on their smartphone.

So, yes, you're right. Internet addiction is less likely, and I most likely am not addicted to PC. Hee hee. Yay!

I do probably have issues with hypochondria and social anxiety at times, but not so much the other issues that are listed below.

Symptoms that are connected with an overuse or over-reliance on the Internet, or the Internet utilized for maladaptive or criminal behaviors, include the following that have been observed:

FOMO - fear of missing out
Hypochondria
Gambling addiction online
Cyber addictions of any kind (including cybersex addiction)
Cyber bullying
Cyber crimes
Social anxiety
Agoraphobia

There's probably more.

So the problem isn't really the Internet per se, but rather the originating symptoms regardless of whether or not the Internet existed. The Internet just makes all of the things above easier to access, but they most likely existed before the Internet existed - support groups included, including pen pals via snail mail and phone calls with supportive hotlines.
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Default Oct 11, 2019 at 03:56 PM
  #10
What if we simply prefer to find spaces where we can be anonymous online to share some deep stuff that people in the real world would be put off by hearing?

There aren't enough therapists, support groups, or close relationships to offer the same supports we receive online. It is often a social taboo to call a person in the middle of the night, or even email someone whose boundaries do not welcome certain types of emails. However, online support groups such as this do allow us to share our feelings and even categorize them. More often than not, we will receive a supportive reply back. That social support is something often not seen in general in-person social circles.

Research has shown that positive social support is a protective factor against many sequelae, including behavioral problems. Google Scholar indexes over 17k articles between 2015 and 2019 regarding the benefits of social support: Google Scholar

What is often left unsaid are the different types and methods of social support that are being used, including (but not limited to) phone calls, texting, in-person visits, therapy as a form of social support, pen pals as a form of social support, in-person groups, and Internet use (most notably online support groups, IMs, PMs, social networking platforms, etc.).

Social support, as I've understood it in my readings of peer-reviewed literature, have two broad categories: (1) Instrumental and (2) Emotional. Instrumental social support includes things like friends helping you with a move, family members helping you with money or food, therapists helping you with tools for mental health treatment, public service resources helping you with offsetting certain costs such as Medicare Part D help, and professors or peers at school helping you study for an exam. Instrumental social support may help a little with the buffering of mental and/or physiological symptoms, including behavioral problems. However, it would appear that emotional support is more protective against certain sequelae, including behavioral problems.

Emotional social support includes things like sharing personal stories with one another, offering words of comfort to someone, giving someone a hug, holding someone like a child or spouse or partner when in pain (physical or mental), discussing personal areas of distress, sharing secrets to help alleviate stress, showing empathy, showing and receiving love, feeling connected (not necessarily bonded) with others, feeling bonded with close others, etc. It's not mere advice-giving, which is instrumental in nature. Sometimes therapists offer two roles - instrumental and emotional support, and sometimes therapists are limited (for whatever reason) to only offering instrumental support (typically, the stoics). Online support groups such as these offer a bit of both, but they mostly offer emotional support in ways that do not typically occur in real life, via email, via phone, or sometimes via therapy. Being hidden behind a pseudonym helps with sharing deep stuff, and receiving feedback from others who are struggling is a way of showing emotional support. Emotional support may not ameliorate the symptoms we are experiencing, but it can reduce the intensity of such symptoms, such as not feeling as sad anymore (i.e., symptoms) or not feeling as prone to self-injury or suicide attempts (i.e., behavioral problems).

I haven't read all the literature on this, but for me, when I'm dealing with adjustments related to moving to a new place, being new and alone, not having a therapist or treatment team for a while, and getting used to new ways of life, my symptoms tend to flare up in different ways, and I almost always reach out via the Internet to my distal friends and family on FB or via phone, my mentors via email, and anonymous others via support groups like this one. This is the only online support group I'm on. All the other online platforms I use are merely to connect with those I know in real life or to read blogs from people I admire in real life. Being here, however, allows me to get it all out - especially the things that would be considered inappropriate or too scary to share with others in real life, including sometimes therapy.

So, my feelings of being "addicted" to PC is probably stemming from my own feelings of being disconnected with the real world in some way, and of loneliness.

There are research articles and other literature on "compensatory relationships," which is what I see sort of happening with me online. I'm finding compensatory relationships with anonymous persons online to meet my emotional support needs primarily (and some instrumental needs at times), due to a lack of real life relationships with known persons. Although the strength of compensatory relationships are not as strong as relationships with those we are desiring to bond to (e.g., family, bosom buddy best friends, close friends, and closer-than-average acquaintances), they help a little.

I'm probably just compensating, and I don't need to beat myself up with an "addiction" label. Still, it helps to know that I'm not alone in this struggle, and to be cognizant of my lack of real live social interactions.
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Default Oct 12, 2019 at 03:41 AM
  #11
So much good information Lillib. There are times I have thought I was addicted to things like the internet because of the generalized anxiety disorder I have. Sometimes I worry so unnecessarily.
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Default Oct 12, 2019 at 04:00 AM
  #12
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Originally Posted by TunedOut View Post
So much good information Lillib. There are times I have thought I was addicted to things like the internet because of the generalized anxiety disorder I have. Sometimes I worry so unnecessarily.
@TunedOut You're welcome. You should thank Dr. Grohol since most of the posts I found on Internet Addiction, if not all, are written by him, and he goes on to explain how it is not in the DSM and why it is still not in the DSM. I really love DocJohn's explanations! All of those non-DSM disorders that are being diagnosed or told online don't help us when we're anxious and worried about some new disorder we might have - emphasis on the might.

As I understand it, the Internet is merely another tool to communicate. Our core issues are what already exists in the DSM, which is what our diagnoses are. Whether or not that extends into real life situations or the use of the Internet, it really doesn't matter as much.

I may not have the same diagnosis as you, but I struggle with symptoms of anxiety, so I know what you mean. I think when I start thinking about things that only cause more worry, such as trying to self-diagnose or something, I need to just calm myself and wait to speak with my therapist (that is, when I get a new one).

Thank you for replying and relating.

PC is helping me feel connected and not so lonely. Once I start grad school next year, or even when I start all my treatments at the VA, I'll probably be more busy IRL and therefore not online as much. I'm more likely to set aside some time every day to read, post, and reply, however, so that way I remain connected but not as verbose as I've been lately.

I'm just really happy to be here.
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Default Oct 12, 2019 at 04:35 AM
  #13
Yes, I read one of Dr. Grohol's articles and it really was helpful.

What service were you in? I served in the Air Force for a bit more than 6 years. While I really enjoyed it, serving has a tendency to make us feel less connected when we get out. That is because we leave our hometowns when we join then when we get out, many of us end up somewhere else but no longer enjoy the camaraderie that we once had with others that served.
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Default Oct 12, 2019 at 05:25 AM
  #14
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Originally Posted by TunedOut View Post
Yes, I read one of Dr. Grohol's articles and it really was helpful.

What service were you in? I served in the Air Force for a bit more than 6 years. While I really enjoyed it, serving has a tendency to make us feel less connected when we get out. That is because we leave our hometowns when we join then when we get out, many of us end up somewhere else but no longer enjoy the camaraderie that we once had with others that served.
@TunedOut I was in the Marines, but only for 10 months. I was honorably discharged as an E-3, Lance Corporal. I am now 100 percent service-connected. I avoided the VA for 20 years because of fear. I am somewhat feeling safer now that I am there. It is hard for me to consider myself a veteran though. I never deployed, and my original injuries that got me honorably discharged were a pelvic stress fracture and a fracture to my foot. I experienced military sexual trauma while in service. I did not tell anyone, even when a different Marine reported something and got her attacker sent to the brig. I dissociated, so I cannot remember a lot about the last months I was in.

"Homecoming" was what my VA therapist asked me about initially. Our discussions centered around what you mentioned regarding feeling disconnected. Our common veteran family upbringing comprising our basic training and military culture seemed to dissipate abruptly upon discharge. How we remained connected to our military culture coupled with how we were received from our civilian loved ones upon homecoming mattered. Our adjustment back into civilian life mattered as well.

I have a half-nephew in the Air Force right now. His helicopter crashed, and he was the only survivor. He is still in. My sister showed me a picture he had taken with President Trump a few years back, which did not make big news, but is floating around there somewhere. I do not know my nephew that well though.

I have a friend from 20 plus years ago still in the Navy. He is now an officer, but he began as enlisted. He is now working for a War Unit.

My half-brothers were both in the Army during different eras, one being in the Vietnam War, the other in a later era, maybe Korean. Both of them are disabled.

I was only in from 1995 to 1996.

I am not really connected to many veterans yet. I want to be, but it is hard for me to feel safe sometimes. Please do not take that the wrong way. I do not even speak with my half-brothers that much.

I miss the service though, even though my MST made me afraid. I miss the PT, the uniform, the training, the teamwork, the hierarchy, and even the Mess Hall.

What do you miss about your service? Have you made any connections through veteran groups like the Vet Center or Team Red White and Blue?
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Default Oct 12, 2019 at 06:07 AM
  #15
I never deployed to a wartime zone either but, despite this, we both truly are veterans. I am sorry about the trauma you experienced.

For a very short while (a couple of months), I served in an F-15 squadron (then the Maintenance Group commander who outranked the squadron commander "rescued" me). At that time (that was around 1990), the Air Force pilots had the culture of --if you are a bad *$$ (a really good) pilot then party hard including cheating on their wives while deployed (not the majority of course but the problem was that even the people who did not condone that sort of thing looked the other way). The squadron actually had a bar in their workplace. My office was right next to it and it even had at least one picture of a scantily dressed sexy woman. This kind of thing did not go on in other specialties, it is just that when I was in the service--the pilots were treated differently than everyone else. There were no bars in any of the workplaces that had no pilots. It was not a very comfortable place for a woman to work and if I had been single, I think it could have been an even worse situation.

I was unable to get VA health care until recently but now that I finally have--it has been a lifesaver. I am finding the mental health care services much better in the VA than they were for me in the civilian world. Judging from the news, this may be because of improvements that have been made after so many service members suffering. I am sorry that you experienced trauma during your service. You didn't deserve that.

I also enjoyed the teamwork and socializing but, also, the military teaches good leadership skills. Many of the men and women I served with were better leaders than most of the supervisors I have had in the many civilian jobs I have had. When you serve on active duty, most military supervisors take care of their people from helping them with personal problems to teaching them to also become leaders and help them get promoted. I have had military supervisors invite me to come over for Thanksgiving and New Years and they came to our place when we invited them on a couple of occasions. This has never happened to me in the civilian world even though I got out of the service more than 26 years ago.
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Default Oct 12, 2019 at 07:28 AM
  #16
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Originally Posted by TunedOut View Post
I never deployed to a wartime zone either but, despite this, we both truly are veterans. I am sorry about the trauma you experienced.
Thank you for saying that, @TunedOut

Yes, you're right. We're both veterans!

Quote:
For a very short while (a couple of months), I served in an F-15 squadron (then the Maintenance Group commander who outranked the squadron commander "rescued" me). At that time (that was around 1990), the Air Force pilots had the culture of --if you are a bad *$$ (a really good) pilot then party hard including cheating on their wives while deployed (not the majority of course but the problem was that even the people who did not condone that sort of thing looked the other way). The squadron actually had a bar in their workplace. My office was right next to it and it even had at least one picture of a scantily dressed sexy woman. This kind of thing did not go on in other specialties, it is just that when I was in the service--the pilots were treated differently than everyone else. There were no bars in any of the workplaces that had no pilots. It was not a very comfortable place for a woman to work and if I had been single, I think it could have been an even worse situation.
That does sound like a tough situation for single women, or any woman. Being married, or having a certain level of clout, are protective forms against victimization, or what is known in criminal justice as "capable guardianship." Being a single woman would be a risk because she would lack capable guardianship in such situations, which might make her more of a target for sexual victimization or otherwise.

My military friends and I would often go out drinking when I was in my early 20s. Drinking was very common. I'm surprised that I didn't wind up with an alcohol use disorder, as I recalled binge drinking at times. There were other times when I was not drinking, however, and I was more focused on being the best I could be at any task given to me. I miss those times. It felt as though I was part of something bigger than myself, and that the skies the limit with the endless possibilities. When I was discharged, I felt ashamed and didn't know what was going on with me. I wasn't diagnosed with any mental disorders while in service or even upon discharge, so it took a little while for me to get a PTSD diagnosis in the civilian world. Between discharge and my PTSD diagnosis, I was in and out of emergency room all the time. I had difficulties with my old high school friends. I wound up being in an abusive relationship with a very insecure but cruel man, and I couldn't even fight back. The strong person I knew was gone - forever. All the training I went through - gone, too. It's as if part of my memories and who I was back then were erased, with only fragmented memories remaining to keep me somewhat sane. I couldn't even face my family upon discharge.

Despite all the negatives, I love the title of your squadron! I would give anything to be in an environment that offered those skills! My guaranteed enlistment in the Marines was a MOS of something in the 7000s, which was either air traffic control or air support (not a pilot, but just support), which is what I wanted to learn. I never deployed or got to do that, due to my injuries and sexual trauma while in service (though they only knew about the injuries, not the sexual trauma). I scored high enough on the ASVAB back then for a guaranteed enlistment, and my prior police reserve academy experience allowed for an E-2 enlistment, instead of an E-1. What you describe in terms of the job itself sounds really awesome! I'm sure you've learned many valuable skills while in service.

Quote:
I was unable to get VA health care until recently but now that I finally have--it has been a lifesaver. I am finding the mental health care services much better in the VA than they were for me in the civilian world. Judging from the news, this may be because of improvements that have been made after so many service members suffering. I am sorry that you experienced trauma during your service. You didn't deserve that.
Indeed, the VA has made many improvements! The great thing about the VA's mental health system is their accountability. There is the OIC to call, or even the VA Crisis Line if a therapist or medical doctor at the VA acts unethical or harms a veteran or a veteran's family member, which is a plus. I feel safe for that reason alone. The treatments are all specialized, so referrals to different therapists are likely for multiple mental health issues. There are still some therapists that aren't as great as others at the VA, but many are in training while practicing, and some are seasoned. It's a good combination, and I'm used to it. The Vet Center offers mental health treatment outside of the VA Hospital, and quite often the therapists there would go on outings with their clients to veteran events (funded through the VA/Federal Government), such as camping, skydiving, equine therapy, local events, or the movies. Unlike the civilian world, therapy allows for outside interaction like that, sometimes with the same clients seeing the same therapist and all knowing one another. For us, it's cool and doesn't interfere with our treatment like it probably would for other conditions that are largely occurring in the civilian sector. Conversely, civilian therapists would have more restrictions, and having clients know one another would be considered a conflict of interest. Additionally, civilian therapists were only allowed to hold groups, but rarely would you hear about outings with their clients, even if therapeutic (except for maybe things like equine therapy).

The only benefit that I had with civilian therapists and not VA therapists is treatment for my dissociation - in particular, DID. The VA considers complex PTSD as "chronic" PTSD, so the name changes are slightly different, probably representing the heterogeneity of trauma that occurs outside of complex childhood trauma, though a lot of veterans have experienced both childhood trauma (not necessarily complex, but it could be) as well as military service-connected trauma of some sort (with or without meeting the diagnosis of PTSD). It's rare to see a veteran with dissociation, so I suppose that such treatment would be at my expense in the civilian sector.

Overall, however, I have experienced better mental health treatment at the VA - even if the therapists I've seen weren't able to see me every week. When I met with therapists for a short time for specialized treatments, they seemed to help. Most therapists were kind and attentive listeners at the VA, and there was no questioning of attachment or anything like that, and my childhood traumas were not the sole focus of treatment. In the civilian sector, I was rarely asked (if at all) about my military traumas or if I was even a veteran; most of my treatments were on childhood traumas, even though I would constantly reiterate that my adulthood traumas are my main concern. For fear of many years prior to my enrolling in the VA system, I felt I couldn't say anything about my military traumas at all, so I maintained "confidentiality" while attributing my symptoms to childhood traumas, and sometimes even pretending that my military traumas were my childhood traumas, out of avoiding disclosing my military traumas. I know that sounds weird, but I felt scared to say anything negative about the military I served under. So I maintained secrecy and confused both my therapists and myself all those years. I feel as though civilian therapists NEED to be trained to understand military traumas so that when they have a veteran client, they are aware of their adulthood traumas and not just their childhood traumas. It's just different. Thankfully, the VA finally relieved me of my concerns of disclosing my military traumas in treatment, though I cannot remember them all, and I still have a very hard time discussing my military traumas. I can discuss my adulthood traumas and childhood traumas relatively okay, but it's harder for me to discuss my military traumas for some reason.

I hope the VA mental health care is treating you well. I'm glad you are benefiting from their services! [/QUOTE]

Quote:
I also enjoyed the teamwork and socializing but, also, the military teaches good leadership skills. Many of the men and women I served with were better leaders than most of the supervisors I have had in the many civilian jobs I have had. When you serve on active duty, most military supervisors take care of their people from helping them with personal problems to teaching them to also become leaders and help them get promoted. I have had military supervisors invite me to come over for Thanksgiving and New Years and they came to our place when we invited them on a couple of occasions. This has never happened to me in the civilian world even though I got out of the service more than 26 years ago.
You are so correct in what you said about leadership. In the Marines and Navy, we utilized an acronym called "JJDIDTIEBUCKLE." How To Apply Marine Leadership Traits To Business - Task & Purpose

It was our leadership motto, which represented (I had to look some of the following up for lack of memory):
J - Justice
J - Judgment
D - Dependability
I - Initiative
D - Decisiveness
T - Tact
I - Integrity
E - Enthusiasm
B - Bearing
U - Unselfishness
C - Courage
K - Knowledge
L - Loyalty
E - Endurance

When I consider my failings in life, I reflect back on each of these areas to tell me where I need to improve (even though I'm not a leader per se). I wrote in a separate post that I am now afraid of authority figures, which happened sometime after my military traumas. I don't know how I went from being trained as a leader to being a cowardice. What I do know is that somewhere deep inside me, these skills are within me. I've not always been mentally stable, but I've always bounced back somehow - albeit with symptoms of mental illness.

When I worked for a short time before my disability, I noticed the lack of leadership found among Fortune 500 companies, manufacturing companies, a healthcare insurance company, and other companies I had worked for. What you describe in your experiences of military leadership in the Air Force sounds a lot like a really good mentoring experience, including the hangouts and personal development as well as professional development. I think many leadership roles in civilian life do not offer mentoring in their job duties, which is a leadership skill that really should take place.

Unlike military culture, the civilian world in the US is based on individualism, so it comes as no surprise that there would be a lack of mentoring among leadership in the civilian sector. Conversely, military culture is largely based on collectivism, since we all have one another's backs (or are supposed to), and we care about keeping service members fit for duty and employing teamwork, as opposed to the harsh civilian world that will look for a reason to replace you and keep your position compartmentalized. Although, it is true that some military jobs have to be compartmentalized for security reasons, there's a strong communication between the ranks, and there's a sense of duty, obligation, and loyalty among all members of service. I miss those features in both the civilian workforce and academia.

Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with me! It is really healing to talk with another veteran. I feel so much more connected, and my fears about the VA are not as bad whenever I can speak with other veterans.

I wonder what your leadership motto was. Hmm.
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Default Oct 12, 2019 at 07:56 AM
  #17
I am sorry for all that have experienced trauma--yes, traumatic events play a number on our memories--in some of the minor traumas I have experienced, I compartmentalized it then when the memory was triggered I went back over it so many times that I started doubting what did and did not happen. I know that the initial fragmented memory was correct but in my desperate desire to fill in the rest--I would wonder how much of what I filled in trying to understand why and what happened was real. For me, it has just worked out best to talk about trauma for a while (so I can understand it so that I can hopefully be less likely to let it effect other relationships) then sort of recompartmentalize it again. I hope that talk isn't too triggering.

So many good things to read in your post. I will probably reread tomorrow morning but as far as leadership goes my personal opinion is good leaders take care of the people who work for them and have good character.
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Default Oct 12, 2019 at 08:51 AM
  #18
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Originally Posted by TunedOut View Post
I am sorry for all that have experienced trauma--yes, traumatic events play a number on our memories--in some of the minor traumas I have experienced, I compartmentalized it then when the memory was triggered I went back over it so many times that I started doubting what did and did not happen. I know that the initial fragmented memory was correct but in my desperate desire to fill in the rest--I would wonder how much of what I filled in trying to understand why and what happened was real. For me, it has just worked out best to talk about trauma for a while (so I can understand it so that I can hopefully be less likely to let it effect other relationships) then sort of recompartmentalize it again. I hope that talk isn't too triggering.

So many good things to read in your post. I will probably reread tomorrow morning but as far as leadership goes my personal opinion is good leaders take care of the people who work for them and have good character.
@TunedOut

No worries about waiting tomorrow to re-read and reply. I am patient and completely understand and respect people's schedules. I'm disabled, so I tend to reply right away right now because I have no obligations (yet).

What you said didn't trigger me. And if you feel like sharing more, don't worry about it triggering me or not. I almost always read the triggering content anyway; online, it's easier than in real life, so I have an easier time with reading triggering content (the kind that goes into detail).

I'm sorry that your trauma was so painful that you compartmentalized it into fragments, too. I suppose that's the similarities between PTSD and DID - the fragments, the loss of memory, the trying to fill in the gaps. I like your idea of recompartmentalizing. It's almost like the pacing and containing technique I learned from a good civilian therapist a long, long time ago.

I also like your very succinct/parsimonious explanation about leadership. We definitely need more of that in general!
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Default Oct 12, 2019 at 11:35 PM
  #19
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Originally Posted by lillib View Post
When I was discharged, I felt ashamed and didn't know what was going on with me. I wasn't diagnosed with any mental disorders while in service or even upon discharge, so it took a little while for me to get a PTSD diagnosis in the civilian world. Between discharge and my PTSD diagnosis, I was in and out of emergency room all the time. I had difficulties with my old high school friends. I wound up being in an abusive relationship with a very insecure but cruel man, and I couldn't even fight back. The strong person I knew was gone - forever. All the training I went through - gone, too. It's as if part of my memories and who I was back then were erased, with only fragmented memories remaining to keep me somewhat sane. I couldn't even face my family upon discharge.

For fear of many years prior to my enrolling in the VA system, I felt I couldn't say anything about my military traumas at all, so I maintained "confidentiality" while attributing my symptoms to childhood traumas, and sometimes even pretending that my military traumas were my childhood traumas, out of avoiding disclosing my military traumas. I know that sounds weird, but I felt scared to say anything negative about the military I served under. So I maintained secrecy and confused both my therapists and myself all those years. I feel as though civilian therapists NEED to be trained to understand military traumas so that when they have a veteran client, they are aware of their adulthood traumas and not just their childhood traumas. It's just different. Thankfully, the VA finally relieved me of my concerns of disclosing my military traumas in treatment, though I cannot remember them all, and I still have a very hard time discussing my military traumas. I can discuss my adulthood traumas and childhood traumas relatively okay, but it's harder for me to discuss my military traumas for some reason.
I and so many are "guilty" of having things in our life that have and do cause us pain but we are unwilling to admit for various reasons. In the case of the military -- reporting a crime or even just complaining can jeopardize your career (the collectivist mindset as you say). My POV is that your fear of authority figures is based on reality.

When we are unable to talk about things as they are occurring because it is too hard to face, articulate, etc--that might make it harder to figure out later. Though I do think you are posting so much right now because you are ready/wanting to process some stuff. Eventually, you will have your fill of it and post less. I have noticed that our society tells us we must be optimistic but some things in this world just really suck and who wants to dwell on that! Sometimes we have to distract, bury and dissassociate in order to handle things! It's OK. Eventually, you will feel stronger because all this posting will help (or will just tire of it) but, also, remember to take breaks too!!!
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Default Oct 13, 2019 at 12:21 AM
  #20
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Originally Posted by TunedOut View Post
I and so many are "guilty" of having things in our life that have and do cause us pain but we are unwilling to admit for various reasons. In the case of the military -- reporting a crime or even just complaining can jeopardize your career (the collectivist mindset as you say). My POV is that your fear of authority figures is based on reality.

When we are unable to talk about things as they are occurring because it is too hard to face, articulate, etc--that might make it harder to figure out later. Though I do think you are posting so much right now because you are ready/wanting to process some stuff. Eventually, you will have your fill of it and post less. I have noticed that our society tells us we must be optimistic but some things in this world just really suck and who wants to dwell on that! Sometimes we have to distract, bury and dissassociate in order to handle things! It's OK. Eventually, you will feel stronger because all this posting will help (or will just tire of it) but, also, remember to take breaks too!!!
@TunedOut



Yes, I'm posting a lot because there are so many things that I've wanted to process over the past 20 years and haven't. I do take many breaks throughout the day, but lately I've been posting a lot to just get all of this stuff out somewhere. I hope the VA can help me process at least a little bit of the stuff that is all welled up inside me.

I was afraid of retaliation if I said anything.

Sadly, when I attended a MST support group at the VA a while back, there were both veterans and uniformed active duty in that group with us. I looked around the room and cried. I kept thinking, "If only I said something years ago, maybe this would have prevented at least some of these veterans and enlisted from getting harmed." Some of the younger uniformed military personnel - all from different branches (I was the only one from the Marines) - reminded me of me being so young. We never had those support groups back then, and today I kept thinking about how brave those soldiers were to come forward and seek treatment. I wept, thanked my therapist for suggesting the group, and explained why I couldn't return.

And you're right, my fear of authority is based in reality.

I kept thinking about the careers I could have had, the friends I could have made, the family I could have formed. All dreams gone after a few MST experiences and a broken pelvic bone. I tried to run, but the best I could do without pain all these years was to walk fast, or maybe jog a little. Tonight, I ran out of breath walking home from dinner with a neighbor. This is not the life I thought I would have at 45.

When I tried to call a non-crisis hotline not too long ago, the combat veteran from the USMC explained how they had a ritual of fighting one another when getting advanced into an E-4 (Sgt.) rank, and how such rituals probably extended elsewhere. I dissociated a little, so I couldn't hear what he was saying in response to my disclosure of MST, which they had on their record. I have since changed my phone number and never contacted that student-run veteran's non-crisis hotline again. Elusive, the USMC combat veteran almost sounded like he was making excuses for those combat soldiers who may be prone to rituals involving MST. It scared me, made me cry, and I woke up from a night terror screaming and covered in gobs of sweat. It was the night after I had spoken to him. It occurred only two months ago, when I was staying in a hotel room and waiting for my apartment to become available in the new state I had relocated to. It wasn't an easy transition with that conversation looming in the background of my mind.

Then, in an act of forgiveness and love for our fellow brothers and sisters in arms, I wondered if any moral injuries may ensue after discharge. I wondered if combat veterans or otherwise who commit MST while in service feel sorry for their actions, but cannot say anything out of fear of incrimination somehow. I wondered if their training and their combat culture may have anything to do with "rape culture," and if such actions caused them to experience moral injuries when trying to fit in and save face with their unit. I wondered if they avoid the VA because they cannot disclose this and have it on record. And, I wonder if there is a statute of limitations for non-judicial crimes that were committed years ago. I wondered what restorative justice would look like for them to actually come forward and apologize privately to their victims, or privately via video that screens out their faces, etc. I truly think that it would be so healing for them to seek treatment as well as for them to apologize to their victims. Even if one could just come forward and apologize.

I wondered if that's what the USMC combat veteran elusively meant during his phone conversation with me, or if that is just wishful thinking on my part.

I'm torn to pieces from the betrayal wounds I had experienced from our own brothers in arms. How was I to fight alongside someone who held my back down instead of having my back? I could never trust them in combat situations, and maybe that was the point they were making regarding their dislike of female or "weak" male enlistees. I wondered so many things throughout the past few decades, and none of those questions got answered. Instead, I see more and more soldiers and veterans coming forward about their MST experiences that still occur to this day.

Why is this still happening?

Movies like G.I.Jane remind me of what others had expected of me after MST. I love all parts of that movie except where the female character was sexually assaulted during seal training by her Master Chief. Although she was brave enough to gut it out, many male and female victims of MST are not. Did our PTSD from that, or our fears, or our reluctance to come forward, or our lack of being able to fight off our brothers attacking us make us weak, less than a leader, and less than a veteran upon discharge? Did society, our families, or fellow military families still serving shame us during homecoming?

My homecoming felt shameful, and I avoided family. That was the first step to my healing back in 2017, when I found the courage to come forward and seek treatment at the VA.

I have no idea what happened to the female Marine who reported her MST and got her attacker sent to the brig. Was she discharged? Did she receive further scrutiny on the job after disclosure? Did her pelvic bone break, too?

Why did the other Marines question me about my experiences, and then apologize to me? I was on bed rest, ill and unfit for duty, ashamed and dissociated, hidden and afraid. Showering with crutches and striking pain shooting down my pelvic bone to the bottom of my fractured foot only made my shame worse. Naked and showered, I felt dirty and alone. A fellow female marine had to help me put my clothes on, and consoled me when I cried in pain. She cried with me, which helped. I can't even remember their names. I can't even remember the questions that were asked of me. I only remember saying that I don't remember.

And a lot of me does not want to remember. I just want to grieve the losses, and I want to move on with some positives in my life. I also want to tell anyone to please take my ideas for research and run with it, because this MST thing needs to stop, and the potential pain that MST offenders may be going through might relate to moral injuries and their rituals, or some other reason. Maybe that stuff is all supposed to be contained within their security clearances, so maybe military psychologists can at least contain such research in secret, but still conduct it nonetheless so that the MST can stop, and so that such offenders in arms could get the healing they need to prevent them from behavioral misconduct in the future. Maybe serving as a female or transgender or short male soldier might be more fair, and maybe we might work harder together to defend our nation with the duty, honor, and courage that we were told was part of our training. How is MST a duty? Or honorable? Or courageous?

This is all I can say, but I had to get it out.
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