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Wise Elder
Member Since Oct 2008
Location: Australia
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#1
I was reading somthing Chrisitna86 had written about this being a place for people with APD to get support .. and i was wondering .... what can we do to support you? to help you "fit" i guess.. dunno .......... do you even want to fit?
Also i was wondering if appropriate to share here - what an ASP may look for in a target? wrong word? partner? hmmm im having trouble wording this - but i think if we knew then we coudl help by not being targets - does that make any sense..... if the 2nd part is innaproprite to ask - then please ignore - no offence meant . Ive just been reading the posts here and started to wonder... P7 __________________ Its not how many times you fall down that counts its how many times you get back up! (Thanks to fenrir for my Picture ) When you have come to the edge of all light that you know and are about to drop off into the darkness of the unknown, Faith is knowing One of two things will happen: There will be something solid to stand on or you will be taught to fly. by Patrick Overton, author and poet Last edited by phoenix7; Dec 07, 2010 at 12:53 PM.. Reason: spelling sucks somtimes :) |
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#2
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One of the main problems I have with ASPD support forums is that many people use that space to ... ehem... "explain" ... how they've been victimized by antisocials in their life and to empathize with others who have also been victimized by antisocials. That's not to undermine their suffering or imply that they shouldn't be allowed to discuss their feelings on the issue. However, there are more appropriate forums for them to do so. An ASPD forum should be for those who have ASPD... On the other hand, as I am the only outspoken psychopath and antisocial that posts often in the forums, it's unrealistic to think this would ever be a forum for psychopaths and antisocials to discuss their problems or whatever they feel like discussing... unless I want to sit here and twiddle my thumbs by my lonesome... But that's not to say that psychopaths and antisocials don't congregate in forums and discuss issues. It has been done... at a place called psychforums. So, should a group of psychopaths and antisocials decide to congregate here and discuss issues... In order for us to feel comfortable and to be able to openly discuss our thoughts and problems while keeping the rest of the community safe... It would need to be moderated quite differently from the rest of the site and the description should be slapped with a warning label reading something along the lines of: "Abandon all hope ye who enter here..." Just kidding. Sort of. But a warning would be appropriate, such as, "Topics may trigger." And the designated moderator would need to be someone who has a great deal of understanding of the antisocial and psychopathic mind and is also capable of making rational decisions, remaining calm, and is comfortable with heated arguments (ehem... *whistles and points to self*). Where the rules might need to be bent a little... Threads that go off topic. During my lengthy stay at psychforums, I have never before seen a group of individuals who had such a great deal of trouble staying on topic. And they usually had a very rational reason for allowing the topic to derail: it was boring; no one wanted to discuss it, so we moved onto something else. Even among psychopaths in everyday life, I've noticed their very random and jumpy conversations. Also, the term "appropriate content" may need to be loosely defined. Arguments and "respect for members"... Psychopaths and antisocials love to argue, and we love to discuss controversial topics. You must understand that we don't apply such strong emotional connotation to certain topics as most people do, so we can discuss (and argue) such topics with ease. We also like to insult people. This doesn't mean that we're not respecting one another. On the contrary, I'd feel very disrespected if a psychopath or antisocial didn't engage in a debate with me. Given freedom to express ourselves, we're a very blunt and sarcastic people. It worked quite well in psychforums. However, the mods were still not keen on us arguing with one another so often or going off topic. Although, we suspect that this is due to nonpsychopaths jumping in on the conversations, getting offended, and reporting us to the mods. I'm not ignoring the "choosing a target" question, but it deserves my full attention and I need to step out for a moment. |
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Seeker
Member Since Jun 2010
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#3
i think there is a kind of curiosity about people who are blind, or deaf, or have no compassion,,, we just want to pry, never thinking that we are no help and can rarely understand,,,
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phoenix7
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Wise Elder
Member Since Oct 2008
Location: Australia
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#4
hmm pry? maybe .... i guess we can never truly understand others unless we can walk in their shoes -
i guess Myers - as you say - you are the only one here that has stated they are APD- so you probably would be here talking to yourself if others werent here and im sure you'd be bored wiht that... and in our own way most here have tried to be supportive so maybe in a way we are supporting you ? I have found your posts interesting and informative exploring your reasons for anger especially so and i guess thats why im still here ... if this in any way offends you because i am not APD then let me know - no offence wil be taken at my end i assure you - and you didnt really say what we could do to support you.... or i missed it .. apart for find another APD and im not sure im able to do that anyway Myers - the more i think about it the more i think the 2nd part of my post was probably intrusive - take care P7 __________________ Its not how many times you fall down that counts its how many times you get back up! (Thanks to fenrir for my Picture ) When you have come to the edge of all light that you know and are about to drop off into the darkness of the unknown, Faith is knowing One of two things will happen: There will be something solid to stand on or you will be taught to fly. by Patrick Overton, author and poet Last edited by phoenix7; Dec 08, 2010 at 12:31 PM.. Reason: to try and make it make sense :) |
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#5
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That's not to say every pro-social non-psychopath should stay out of the forum. During my stay at psychforums... The kind folks who wanted only to discuss things with us and ask questions were certainly welcome, and they usually enjoyed the conversations if they didn't take the blunt and sarcastic posts too seriously. It's the same way for me here. I certainly enjoy discussions with non-psychopaths and being asked questions about myself and psychopathy in general. You all are also very supportive. However, there were also a number of people who came to the ASPD forum to discuss their antisocial or psychopathic significant other and how utterly horrible said S.O. was. Or, on some occasions, they came only to discuss how awful antisocials and psychopaths are in general. Needless to say, this didn't garner much sympathy from the antisocials and psychopaths who, feeling rather insulted, retorted with witty banter. But this reaction upset those people, so they went to the admin with word of how rude we were. The only reason I'd feel more "welcome" with fellow antisocials and psychopaths is that I'd feel more comfortable "taking the mask off." We have our own way of supporting each other, and that usually involves simply being able to talk openly and relate to one another. Needless to say, sympathy and empathy never come into play. To any average bystander, it'd probably look like we were fighting. But that's just our way of venting, or having an outlet for all that antisocial behavior and a place where others understand and accept that behavior. And this behavior could be harmful to pro-social non-psychopaths, so I refrain from doing that here. Sorry, I had a vision of how this could work, and I wanted to share it. How can non-antisocials help support me? Through conversation. I really like talking, and it helps me sort things out. Quote:
In general, psychopaths look for a loner with low self-esteem and high empathy. These traits are what indicate how vulnerable a person is to being victimized, and they are perceived by psychopaths through the potential victim's body language and facial expressions. And once spotting a target, the psychopath, or any person with ill-intentions, will size the target up by testing their boundaries. I do know the specific motion cues in a person's gait that indicate vulnerability, but I'm having trouble translating it into layman's terms, so I'll have to get back to you on that. But, basically, it's lack of fluidity. And I agree, it is hard to find a euphemism for "target"... |
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Grand Magnate
Member Since Nov 2010
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#6
So what's the difference then between a psychopath and a NYer?
BTW... despite being in exile in indiana I am a NY through and through. OK, and I can't resist a good banter with you Myers! alas, this would be one of those OT moments... dang it! Back to the discussion at hand.... __________________ There’s been many a crooked path that has landed me here Tired, broken and wearing rags Wild eyed with fear -Blackmoores Night |
Wise Elder
Member Since Oct 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 8,135
15 1,268 hugs
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#7
Quote:
Thanks Myers. Quote:
__________________ Its not how many times you fall down that counts its how many times you get back up! (Thanks to fenrir for my Picture ) When you have come to the edge of all light that you know and are about to drop off into the darkness of the unknown, Faith is knowing One of two things will happen: There will be something solid to stand on or you will be taught to fly. by Patrick Overton, author and poet |
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Grand Magnate
Member Since Nov 2010
Location: Crimson cattery
Posts: 3,512
13 3,133 hugs
given |
#8
My guess would be high empathy helps keep them hooked. Using their sympathy is also a very powerful lure.
I know the gaits and body postures too but can only recognize it when I see it. It is not something I have words for. Typically I can see poor boundaries in a person long before I have any direct contact with them. But, I am lazy and don't really intend or have a need to do anything with the information... So I much rather have some one else reveal the information. You would also be surprized at how much you can get a person to tell you from across the room. I used to volunteer as a youth leader on an intense religous retreat for teens. The directors of the weekends learned that I could predict those who would have strong emotional reactions and would need extra support as well as those who would disclose abuse histories. I could usually have them figured out just watching them come from their car into the church. Could sort the liberals from the conservatives rather quick too... but that was a sheer survival skill... Man they can get heated when you lock them in a church together for 4 days! Once you learn the signals noticing them almost becomes second nature, at least it did for me. That, unfortunately makes it difficult for me to find words for it. It does however make people watching a lot more interesting. I also got offered a job as a psychic once because the person thought I must have some kind of sixth sense to be able to pick up so much about people. That and he liked staring at my *****. __________________ There’s been many a crooked path that has landed me here Tired, broken and wearing rags Wild eyed with fear -Blackmoores Night |
phoenix7
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#9
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phoenix7
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Location: the twilight zone
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#10
lovely place for me to jump back in i'd say. hiya mike!
i'm one of the "undesireables" from psychforums, just fyi. i'm diagnosed aspd... and have been that way for as long as anyone can remember. can't remember which one is the "politically correct" term on teh interwebz at the moment... socio or psycho. but yeah, that's the one that's me. so, on to the topic at hand, yes? what does a psychosocio whatever look for in a target, and how do we see it? seems y'all have a resident expert already in attendance. i can't speak for "our people" lol... but for myself, i just shoot for "friendly" in general circumstances, and i use that to get in close enough to determine whether or not the individual even has anything i want in the first place. once i've determined that someone has something of value to me, i begin "probing"... testing boundaries in the ways already mentioned. now this "probing" can come in many different flavors and strengths depending on what it is i want from them. for instance: if i want money, i may start easy with a conversation about someone that recently borrowed money from them... see how they feel about it... were they paid back? how do they feel about being paid back... or not? if i want entertainment... i may just feel them out for weak points... to be used later. if i notice something specific i want, i may try to see how much it means to them to keep it... just to measure and determine how best to get it, or how likely it will be to be noticed if it just "disappears". its always different. and it almost always involves getting intimate with people one way or another. i guess, in short, its easiest to say that if there are any 'hard and fast' cues i look to, then they would be very subtle and entirely dependent on the situation. its hard to say what "general" cues would be of help to someone other than don't be an obvious patsy... __________________ JD if i say something that offends you, please let me know- never know when i may want to offend you again.... |
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#11
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#12
I honestly am cringing at the question/questions I am about to ask......cause who the he ll wants to be a victim?
....But I am also extremely fascinated with NPD,ASPD And Sociopathy....For reasons I don't have a clue about. Since a very very very young age.(no doubt as a response to my youth and the experiences entailed therein)...Psychological thrillers appealed....(tho' the depictions were mostly not textbook) It may boil down to the intellectual ,though obvious dark psychology of it and the depth of the inner workings of the disorders. What I want to ask...is why the F would a person....knowing someone has this dx... seek these types out to converse with and to "hang out" with.Cause I am fascinated. I dare say that in regard to myers in particular....I have mad respect for the fact that he "puts it out there" exposed and curious and well informed " as well as the fact that clearly ...I have never seen him appear to be displaying actions indicative of finding a victim.Though I am clearly not a mind reader. But ....and this is NOT a lure..."let me be very very clear on this".....cause I am now hyper aware of my wording and the revelation this has of my psyche and the inferred vulnerability it implies...yet ...I say,don't take me for a fool....what I wanted to ask is where in the psychological realm does the attraction to this personna "type" fit into the psychology of the types of ppl who ...I dare say seek these individuals out without realizing it and further ...find themselves attracted to relationships which are clearly abusive even to the level of role play and a submissive stance? I just find that there is a very deep psychological web I stand within at the moment and feel very miffed that I am having these complexities in my own personna. I also up until a few months back never went very deep within my own patterns and inner workings to have the awareness that these complexities exist with in me personnally. Can anyone comment?Preferably those w/ the dx...or other well read /serious intellectuals. I would appreciate any mature responses ~WO.olfsong |
phoenix7
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Grand Magnate
Member Since Nov 2010
Location: Crimson cattery
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#13
@ WolfSong: :P no ruling me out of the conversation by limiting it to "mature" responses.
I get sucked in by the "game". For me it is an interpersonal game of chess. There are very few people with high enough IQ to interact with that don't have some kind of pathology @ Myers, yes I do consider you among the most interesting __________________ There’s been many a crooked path that has landed me here Tired, broken and wearing rags Wild eyed with fear -Blackmoores Night |
phoenix7
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#14
THat's it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..........You said why...the relief from reading that is enough to make me cry! ...But then,when do I NOT cry?By the way he said he will answer me l8tr...and I honestly can't wait.Cause I am curious to get an opinion on this.And dammit Omerzzz why you post such tiny portions when I am so hungry ....your is another mind I enjoy!
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phoenix7
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#15
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Also, I think most people have a curiosity for things and people that they're unfamiliar with. |
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#16
I am sorry to disagree Myers ....as ...clearly ...I am fond of you..
I am feeling it is more intense,...more lovely,...and...sheerly deeper than that. But I suppose that ...There is a difference ..in that my fondness of you comes from your ability to expose your inner workings....I find that fascinatingly brazen and much more honest than the masks "normals" wear. (I prefer a person to wear a label ...F off...than the meek cheshire cat grins one receives in public or ...the work place.......) Then...we have bridger....and the inner workings of the psychology of that entire ....for lack of a better term.....web ......of complexity.Which....I personally find...entirely resonates in the core of my being. Though I haven't a clue why.I find it to be darkly poetic ,but ...I am not in tune with the causes of that.I find myself ......sad from the ..... shadowy beauty of the entire thing that Clarisse Thorn came to share. .......and am sadly left in limbo.....because this creates an entire dialogue of questions within...which are only a microscopic inner realisation. arggghhhh.....and so the wolf is left to the prison of ponderances ......which are ...her mind. WO.olf Omers......?Did U include yourself in the DX darling?.........Ahhhhhh.....a game of Chess.....Yes...But for me the game is discovery and the dialogue....the word play......the observance of the moves.Let me be clear..."I have an attraction to".....I am not however...one of you.I am incapable of that.I am on the polar opposite spectrum of personna......and likely the victim.But not a very good victim...my perception ...paranoia....and observance.....is vigilant.....as my mother always plugged.......Never never never mistake kindness for weakness .......she said that because I have been a victim ...of her and many....and wanted to point out that I survived.I survived her....And many more.I'm still here despite my deepest pondrance.~Wo.olfsong Last edited by Anonymous32399; Dec 13, 2010 at 10:59 PM.. |
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#17
By the way myers ....I agree...we are primed to applaud these traits....society promotes it....fathers promote it among males...and most movies have applied some of the traits in the main characters as well.Kids growing up love the characters of cartoons ,scary movies,and gangster mentalitiy (pretty sure road runner and sylvester the cat were aspd)...and teen and younger type movies have the evil and good main characters...Alot of boys look to the dominant one to learn masculinity....and in fact pressured by society to be such...or not be male.Criminals are an excellent example ..in that they first go to jail as a drug dealer or thief...and within the confines of the justice system...have no choice but to adopt behaviors...tactics...they learned in the system to survive financially or physically.Eventually..(since most enter "the system" )at such a young age....15,-23....and their moral conscience is still quivering..the traits are engrained w/out their awareness.Think of the music videos and gaming most young ppl are allowed to observe.Prison is also the "new" mental health ward with all of the mental hospital that have been closed or defunded.....it goes on and on.....
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phoenix7
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Wise Elder
Member Since Oct 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 8,135
15 1,268 hugs
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#18
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Quote by omers.. I get sucked in by the "game". For me it is an interpersonal game of chess. There are very few people with high enough IQ to interact with that don't have some kind of pathology I love chess Quote:
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and they learn skills and make aquantances that may lead them further into the land of misdeeds purely from a need for survival or the adoption of allies. .Prison is also the "new" mental health ward with all of the mental hospital that have been closed or defunded.....it goes on and on.....[/quote] a good point - a lot of prisoners have some form of mental disarray - but then dont we all if you dont "fit in " then its easy to get angry with "the herd" and want to cut out what you think should be yours. jmo anyway ive gone on long enough - but as you can see this conversation sparked my interest. P7 __________________ Its not how many times you fall down that counts its how many times you get back up! (Thanks to fenrir for my Picture ) When you have come to the edge of all light that you know and are about to drop off into the darkness of the unknown, Faith is knowing One of two things will happen: There will be something solid to stand on or you will be taught to fly. by Patrick Overton, author and poet |
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Wise Elder
Member Since Oct 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 8,135
15 1,268 hugs
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#19
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thanks for sharing that with us P7 __________________ Its not how many times you fall down that counts its how many times you get back up! (Thanks to fenrir for my Picture ) When you have come to the edge of all light that you know and are about to drop off into the darkness of the unknown, Faith is knowing One of two things will happen: There will be something solid to stand on or you will be taught to fly. by Patrick Overton, author and poet |
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#20
..........I laughed...pondered....cried....learned.....and quaked for more....(((Phoenix)))))))Ty for this! I intend to reply more in depth a wee later ...as I am set upon preparing a paper for a guest speak....Be well...hit y'all up l8tr!....~WO.olfsong~
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