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Default Jun 07, 2018 at 10:23 PM
  #1
Got results from neuropsych eval. Evidently my attention is in the bottom five percent of the population. My intelligence is in the 91st percentile, so I've been smart enough to hide it, or laugh it off, but my utter lack if transitional and organizational skills keeps coming back to haunt me. So, I know this is very real for me. Not sure what to do, I've always picked up another distraction, a new hobby, a new carrer, a nrw degree but it somehow now feels do futile to throw myself in a new direction only to crash and burn in a year or two.
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Smile Jun 10, 2018 at 05:00 PM
  #2
Thanks for sharing this. Hopefully you'll get some ideas, from being here on PC, as to what to do. I've been a person all my life, it seems like, who's never been satisfied to stick with anything for very long. I think it would be good to be able to find one thing you love, stick with it for the long haul, & become really expert at it. Unfortunately that has never been me. Perhaps it can now be you?

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Default Jun 10, 2018 at 11:27 PM
  #3
Sounds strangely familiar... I'm sure I could keep busy and productive, but it's hard to imagine a job that would make a living at this point.
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Default Aug 04, 2018 at 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by imchet View Post
Got results from neuropsych eval. Evidently my attention is in the bottom five percent of the population. My intelligence is in the 91st percentile, so I've been smart enough to hide it, or laugh it off, but my utter lack if transitional and organizational skills keeps coming back to haunt me. So, I know this is very real for me. Not sure what to do, I've always picked up another distraction, a new hobby, a new carrer, a nrw degree but it somehow now feels do futile to throw myself in a new direction only to crash and burn in a year or two.
I was also diagnosed later in life. I didn't take the neuropsych test, only the paper test.

Not sure what you're asking here but am listening if you care to clarify. What do you mean be transitional skills?
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Default Aug 21, 2018 at 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by imchet View Post
Got results from neuropsych eval. Evidently my attention is in the bottom five percent of the population. My intelligence is in the 91st percentile, so I've been smart enough to hide it, or laugh it off, but my utter lack if transitional and organizational skills keeps coming back to haunt me. So, I know this is very real for me. Not sure what to do, I've always picked up another distraction, a new hobby, a new carrer, a nrw degree but it somehow now feels do futile to throw myself in a new direction only to crash and burn in a year or two.
Ughhh... this really makes me question my bipolar diagnosis. This is exactly me. I think my psych is starting to agree based on my lack of response to mood stabilizers. But you’ve just described my life. AND the Wellbutrin which I was put on for depression has not helped that... but it sure has staved my typical forays into new hobbies and distractions and spontaneity (not to mention the creativity). I’ve had a shocking number of disparate jobs from molecular biologist to photographer to boat captain to Bladesmith and now I’m at an all time low working in a foundry.

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Default Aug 21, 2018 at 09:07 PM
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Ughhh... this really makes me question my bipolar diagnosis. This is exactly me. I think my psych is starting to agree based on my lack of response to mood stabilizers. But you’ve just described my life. AND the Wellbutrin which I was put on for depression has not helped that... but it sure has staved my typical forays into new hobbies and distractions and spontaneity (not to mention the creativity). I’ve had a shocking number of disparate jobs from molecular biologist to photographer to boat captain to Bladesmith and now I’m at an all time low working in a foundry.
mossanimal, I have a cousin who was misdiagnosed for years as bipolar, and was eventually diagnosed as ADHD by her PCP, when she was 40 years of age. I know this probably is not a common experience, especially with a primary care physician, but as soon as her meds were switched to treat her ADHD (adderall), her life dramatically changed for the better! I am not a doctor, or counselor, but have heard of so many occasions were a person's struggle with ADHD was perceived or manifested itself as anxiety, depression, ocd, and even bipolar.

I thought I should share, since I witnessed it firsthand. I don't know your situation, but I do wish you the best.
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Default Aug 22, 2018 at 07:20 PM
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mossanimal, I have a cousin who was misdiagnosed for years as bipolar, and was eventually diagnosed as ADHD by her PCP, when she was 40 years of age. I know this probably is not a common experience, especially with a primary care physician, but as soon as her meds were switched to treat her ADHD (adderall), her life dramatically changed for the better! I am not a doctor, or counselor, but have heard of so many occasions were a person's struggle with ADHD was perceived or manifested itself as anxiety, depression, ocd, and even bipolar.

I thought I should share, since I witnessed it firsthand. I don't know your situation, but I do wish you the best.
Thanks for the note. The thing is is that I was originally diagnosed with ADHD and was put on Adderall by a primary care physician... but there was no real follow up or change... except that I lost some weight. But 8 years after I had a bad spell of depression that led to a brief hospitalization and care was transferred to psychiatrists who gave me the bipolar diagnosis. But it just doesn’t sit right with me.. especially the mania. And then I come to a forum like this and see people with such similar life experiences. Anyway... I see my psych next week so hopefully we will explore this further. All I know is that I’ve had a crazy life with sooo many hobbies and professions all ending up with a crash and burn and moving onto something else. I’m disorganized and can only focus on things that are my current passion. Until now... the Wellbutrin has killed that aspect for sure.

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Default Sep 17, 2018 at 02:01 PM
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I was also diagnosed later in life. I didn't take the neuropsych test, only the paper test.

Not sure what you're asking here but am listening if you care to clarify. What do you mean be transitional skills?
Transition is the ability to shift attention from one activity to another and back and forth etc. For example a person who had difficulty with transitions would make a terrible secretary, because that job requires you to shift attention a lot. If I took a phone call, when I returned to my previous task it would be difficult to pick up where I left off. Also, if I were asked to do A, then half way through start and complete task B, then start task C, it would be very difficult for me to then go back and finish task A in an effective and efficient way.
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Default Sep 17, 2018 at 02:05 PM
  #9
Thanks, adderall has been recommended for me, but I'm currently working on balancing four different antidepressants, and my Psychiatrist didn't recommend adding another. Guess I'll just have to keep drinking a liter or two of coffee per day.
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mossanimal, I have a cousin who was misdiagnosed for years as bipolar, and was eventually diagnosed as ADHD by her PCP, when she was 40 years of age. I know this probably is not a common experience, especially with a primary care physician, but as soon as her meds were switched to treat her ADHD (adderall), her life dramatically changed for the better! I am not a doctor, or counselor, but have heard of so many occasions were a person's struggle with ADHD was perceived or manifested itself as anxiety, depression, ocd, and even bipolar.

I thought I should share, since I witnessed it firsthand. I don't know your situation, but I do wish you the best.
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Default Sep 17, 2018 at 02:17 PM
  #10
That's funny, I've been a ski instructor, worked in fine arts (assistant, printmaker, and gallery, all in NY and with top people,) a bike mechanic, an executive assistant, been the owner of a small manufacturing company, inside sales, welder/fabricator, and most recently an Occupational Therapy practitioner.
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Ughhh... this really makes me question my bipolar diagnosis. This is exactly me. I think my psych is starting to agree based on my lack of response to mood stabilizers. But you’ve just described my life. AND the Wellbutrin which I was put on for depression has not helped that... but it sure has staved my typical forays into new hobbies and distractions and spontaneity (not to mention the creativity). I’ve had a shocking number of disparate jobs from molecular biologist to photographer to boat captain to Bladesmith and now I’m at an all time low working in a foundry.
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Default Sep 17, 2018 at 02:22 PM
  #11
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Thanks for the note. The thing is is that I was originally diagnosed with ADHD and was put on Adderall by a primary care physician... but there was no real follow up or change... except that I lost some weight. But 8 years after I had a bad spell of depression that led to a brief hospitalization and care was transferred to psychiatrists who gave me the bipolar diagnosis. But it just doesn’t sit right with me.. especially the mania. And then I come to a forum like this and see people with such similar life experiences. Anyway... I see my psych next week so hopefully we will explore this further. All I know is that I’ve had a crazy life with sooo many hobbies and professions all ending up with a crash and burn and moving onto something else. I’m disorganized and can only focus on things that are my current passion. Until now... the Wellbutrin has killed that aspect for sure.
Wow, sounds so familiar. I always correct people when they say I'm a "jack of all trades" I usually stick with something until I've experienced a degree of mastery before I crash and burn. I'm a master of several trades, and a beginner in several, I'm no Jack.
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Default Sep 30, 2018 at 09:26 AM
  #12
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Originally Posted by mossanimal View Post
Thanks for the note. The thing is is that I was originally diagnosed with ADHD and was put on Adderall by a primary care physician... but there was no real follow up or change... except that I lost some weight. But 8 years after I had a bad spell of depression that led to a brief hospitalization and care was transferred to psychiatrists who gave me the bipolar diagnosis. But it just doesnÂ’t sit right with me.. especially the mania. And then I come to a forum like this and see people with such similar life experiences. Anyway... I see my psych next week so hopefully we will explore this further. All I know is that IÂ’ve had a crazy life with sooo many hobbies and professions all ending up with a crash and burn and moving onto something else. IÂ’m disorganized and can only focus on things that are my current passion. Until now... the Wellbutrin has killed that aspect for sure.
Hopefully my own ADHD experience can help you towards a solution:

1) ADHD's traits are reactive to external stimuli while Bi-polar is a inner chemical process of cycling between manic and depression states. Someone with bi-polar disorder will not have clear catalysts for their mood and energy focuses. They just move between their various states based on their own inner brain chemistry and whatever regulatory cycle is misfiring. ADHD though goes into hyperfocus or distraction/space out based on whatever activity your doing or is going on around you. ADHD highs and lows will respond to the people and events as they occur to you, often at emotional extremes.With ADHD you are dealing with poor dopamine uptake (which causes the lack of focus, being easily distracted and some of the depression like symptoms) and then compromised executive functions.

The executive functions oversee our time-awareness/management, fore/hind sight, task prioritization, task, thought and spacial organization, self-esteem (which is part of the depression we get), planning and self-awareness, working memory (basically our brain's RAM or temporary memory) and emotion inhibition. Every ADHDer has some deficit in one or more of these due to their under-developed frontal lobe but which ones are affected and to what degree varies between ADHDers. This is the reason both for the labeling (ADD vs ADHD) and sub-types (inattentive, hyperactive etc). But experts are finding its all the same disorder and really not different types, just variety among us due to severity and location of the development issues in our prefrontal cortex. Stack co-morbid traits on top of that, and ADHD is fairly varied but at its we all share focus/attention issues and compromised executive functions. The rest is how our other brain functions and hormones (especially for women with ADHD) are affected.

Sidenote: If you don't know what co-morbidity is, these are other tag-along disorders tied to your ADHD. They can vary (like dyslexia, Tourette's OCD, autism, depression, ODD (opposition defiant disorder). Often an ADHDer has on average two of them and, get this, they are genetic. So, since ADHD is inherited, all of the ADHDers in your family will have them same co-morbid traits even if their ADHD varies in degrees of executive function compromise. Fascinating and tragic.

For example, my mom's side of the family is where the ADHD comes. My grandfather, uncle, mother, myself and my daughters all have it. My grandfather has passed and my uncle and mom are not officially diagnosed but I have plenty of experience identifying ADHD and have had so many interactions and stories from them that it is obvious. Ironically, my family thought my grandfather had bi-polar disorder, they still tout this. But he had no cyclic behavior and was all external stimuli. We all have ODD and some slight dyslexia and OCD. ODD when not treated with CBT can become violent (breaking objects or becoming hostile and threatening) and if not manage can change to Conduct Disorder which turns into abuse like hitting people. Well, he used to take physical punishment to his kids into that realm. But he was never diagnosed and this is way before they understood any of these connections or the genetics within it.

So first step, figure out if you are responding to external stimuli or are you in an internal manic/depression cycle.

2) Either way, you are dealing with atypical brain chemistry. Make sure you find a psychiatrist or medical doctor who specializes in atypical brain disorders and really understands the current findings on learning disabilities and their effect on executive functions. Which brings us to your medication.

ADHD medication is essential and kinda tricky. The reason is ADHD research by experts in the field and upcoming pediatricians are ahead of the curve, with the rest of the medical community about 10 years behind and then the remaining therapists and social workers being behind by up to 20 years. This means if you get tested and then medicated by a neurotypical focused therapist or primary care doctor, they very likely could misdiagnose you and even if they don't they may put you on the wrong medication or the wrong dosage.

I didn't receive the correct answers to what I was dealing with until a) I found Russell Barkley's books and videos and then b) got to a research hospital with the top neurologists in my state. I have run into all of the problems - having "experts" withhold medications claiming that diet or coping tools can solve ADHD (that's like telling someone needing glasses to squint or try hard to see clearly). I've had medical doctors admit they and their colleagues know very little about ADHD and treatments, and both my own and my children's doctors have all deferred to the experts at the research hospital after I got treated by them.

Now, I am not a doctor and I am just sharing my own experience so you can know what real ADHD support looks like. Medication requires you trying a variety of options and then dialing in the best one because every ADHDer reacts differently to their medication. I was told that Ritalin usually woks better in young children (it did nothing for me), while adderall and related drugs work better in adults. Some do better standard formula, where others need extended release or the reformulated stimulants like Concerta, Vavyanse, etc.

It should be noted, our brains physiology is different from a neurotypical brain. Because of the low dopamine uptake, when put on stimulants ADHDers do not typically experience the effects a normal brain does. We don't get addicted, we don't experience euphoria or heart rate increase we do not have many if any withdrawal symptoms if you choose to not take it, other than your dopamine receptors having to re-adapt to lower dopamine which causes you to feel sleepy. It should be noted, with Vayvanse, this caused a day of severe lethargy accompanied by suicidal thoughts. It wore off in 24 hours, but was scary because the hack who had prescribed me to it hadn't warned me and failed to check that our insurance didn't cover it, so when they took me off it I had no warning and wasn't titrated down. This is one of many examples of the lack of understanding the non-experts have.

When I was prescribed by the experts, they had me dial in my adderall and we ended up exceeding the FDA recommended maximum dosage. I started at 10mg per dosage. then each day, you increase by 10mg. Once your dosage makes you feel like you drank to much coffee, you go back down 10 mg. That is how they had me find the effective dosage to get my dopamine supported. Before that, if I just take the recommended FDA max of 30 mg, I don't feel a thing and get no benefit from the medication. My doctors said they have people on up to x3 the amount the FDA says is safe. The FDA is based on nuerotypical brains and treating narcolepsy, not ADHD. Likewise, your daily schedule is for number of times you take the effective dosage is based on how your brain metabolizes the stimulants. For me, my dosage of 60mg was out of my system in about 6 hours and I found myself distracted and drifting again. So, I need to take 60mg every 6 hours, which works out to 2 - 3 times per day. I do not have any negative side-effects from such high dosages.

So, its very possible if you do have ADHD, that you are on the wrong medication and if not, that your medication is to low of a dosage. My advice, find an ADHD expert. Ask any doctor or psychiatric expert what their experience with ADHD, Bi-polar, the differences and atypical brains with executive function disorders. Watch videos and read the books of Dr. Russell Barkley, he teaches the science behind all this. Then make sure you and the doctor helping you are on the same page. Be ready to defend your access to treatment and educating your primary care doctors too.

Finally, ADHD is the second most inherited trait next to height. You should see similar patterns of behavior in siblings, parents, and children. Find those patterns and if you have kids, getting them screen too, especially if they are girls as ADHD is much more deadly for them, as they have chemistry shifts at the end of their menstrual cycles that puts them into huge emotional drop offs that can lead to self-harm and suicide if not properly managed.

I hope this gets you to the answers you need. ADHD is a *****. Getting properly treated and learning how to cope with it is crucial, as it runs in families, can tear them apart and at its worse, it can destroy your life. I am speaking from first hand experience. I was undiagnosed and then a few years ago, had my synapses come apart and went into a mental breakdown from untreated ADHD. I am about 3 years in to a 5 year recovery. I've lost nearly everything I built and am have to relearn how to live my life again. Its been awful. But that would be a whole book into itself...

Let me know if I can offer any other help.

Nate
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