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Default Oct 13, 2019 at 10:34 PM
  #1
I watched Lisa Ling`s report on Benzos on CNN . I was just wondering did any of you see it and if so what did you think of it ?

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Default Oct 14, 2019 at 03:24 AM
  #2
I didnt see it but read about it. I think its good that the dangers are being brought out. I am not saying no one should take them..heck I am allowed to take 1/2 of a 5,mg tab of valium in emergencies. But way way back in the day, like over 15 years ago I was on a lot of them and it was not good.

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Default Oct 15, 2019 at 09:27 PM
  #3
the benzo thing waxes and wanes. i've seen 20/20 reports from the late 80s, early 90s about xanax. and yet...xanax remained popular then and now, though less so. this time, though, the DEA and everybody is cracking down on doctors, so it seems a lot of people are being given "safe alternatives" (OK...) vs Mother's Little Helpers. I don't know what to make of it, honestly. I went thru hell on Klonopin, but what about people who just...need a sedative, to make it through? I'm also wary of the DEA and other gov't agencies interfering too much in the doctor+patient relationship.
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Default Oct 28, 2019 at 03:19 PM
  #4
Here's a link in case anyone is interested. I would say it is a good idea to know what you're getting into before taking one of these drugs

YouTube

Dr. Marks just did a video on them as well.

YouTube
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Default Oct 28, 2019 at 04:57 PM
  #5
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Originally Posted by still_crazy View Post
the benzo thing waxes and wanes. i've seen 20/20 reports from the late 80s, early 90s about xanax. and yet...xanax remained popular then and now, though less so. this time, though, the DEA and everybody is cracking down on doctors, so it seems a lot of people are being given "safe alternatives" (OK...) vs Mother's Little Helpers. I don't know what to make of it, honestly. I went thru hell on Klonopin, but what about people who just...need a sedative, to make it through? I'm also wary of the DEA and other gov't agencies interfering too much in the doctor+patient relationship.
I agree about interference, but we lack balance here as a whole. You make several great points.

I think the psychiatrist in the video says it all. These drugs are an important tool and they have their place. However, doctors are given very little information as to how patients should be treated properly. They are leaving patients on these meds for way too long and they are creating dependence issues. Also, doctors don't always know the right way to wean people off and just how severe the withdrawal symptoms are.

At the end of the day it is on us to come together as a community and help each other. It is on us to do the research. Unfortunately, we can not rely solely on professionals to know what is best. That was the essence of Lisa Ling's message to her viewers and I think it is spot on.
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Default Oct 28, 2019 at 10:14 PM
  #6
It truly disturbs me that meds go in trends. But just about everything does - food sure does...what's considered healthy, not healthy.

When I was initially prescribed Klonopin it was hailed as the 'perfect med' - no unwanted side effects, almost immediate relief from anxiety, and when you want to stop taking it - no problem.

For the first several years K-pin was so helpful for me. Then I tried to come off of it. And there it was: the horror of benzo withdrawal.

I have now been on Klonopin for around 25 years. I have made several attempts to stop taking it. The most recent attempt was when I took a full year to titrate my dose down to nothing. I made it as far as .5/day, but the withdrawal was unbearable. I'm back on 2mg/day...if I spend my life taking K-pin I won't be surprised. My current pdoc believes that 2 - 3mg/day is helpful for me.

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Default Oct 28, 2019 at 10:22 PM
  #7
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Originally Posted by fern46 View Post
I agree about interference, but we lack balance here as a whole. You make several great points.

I think the psychiatrist in the video says it all. These drugs are an important tool and they have their place. However, doctors are given very little information as to how patients should be treated properly. They are leaving patients on these meds for way too long and they are creating dependence issues. Also, doctors don't always know the right way to wean people off and just how severe the withdrawal symptoms are.

At the end of the day it is on us to come together as a community and help each other. It is on us to do the research. Unfortunately, we can not rely solely on professionals to know what is best. That was the essence of Lisa Ling's message to her viewers and I think it is spot on.
Well put, and I agree with you. The obstacle is finding a doctor who admits to not knowing what is best. I've never met one in my life - most definitely not any psychiatrist I've been the patient of. If I dare to challenge their knowledge all I ever hear back is that I'm not being "compliant." My current pdoc ( about 3 years) listens to my ideas and suggestions - to a point. But she has seriously gone off on me when I changed dosage without consulting her (even when I was having a truly bad reaction and she was not available).

So, that's the issue as I see it. Tell your pdoc you have better knowledge of anything relating to medicine than they do and you're asking for trouble. Personally, I feel completely overpowered.

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Default Oct 29, 2019 at 03:48 AM
  #8

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Default Oct 29, 2019 at 01:53 PM
  #9
blah. i have no doubt that there's lots of people (me included, obviously) who need drugs. I don't mean fun drugs, I mean...I do better on a reasonably dosed 'atypical' plus something for depression than not on such drugs. but...do we need psychiatrists to get to such 'treatment' ? why?
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Default Oct 29, 2019 at 11:54 PM
  #10
I have been on and off Xanax or Valium mostly daily for at least 10 years. My Pdoc and T both agree that the amount of ptsd ,BP, ocd and chronic pain.

I understand the risk of long use, dependency, “
possible”’early dementia etc etc etc

My opinion with T and Pdoc all feel that if I’m always on edge and near panic that it’s better for me right now and safer ( suicide wise) to take them, being in constant anxiety is unhealthy , lots of anxiety is from chronic pain .... mostly I just take one at night.

Today I took one before we drove up to see the GI doctor.

I knew benzo bashing was going to follow the opioid epidemic. I’d like the government to find out how awful it is for psych patients to not only find help but afford medication and for gods sake ! Big pharma can make a Med that’s weight neutral but they also make tons of meds to treat obesity so they want to make sure they make billions on all those meds too .

I hate Big Pharma !
#endrant

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Default Oct 30, 2019 at 04:03 AM
  #11
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Originally Posted by ~Christina View Post
I knew benzo bashing was going to follow the opioid epidemic. I’d like the government to find out how awful it is for psych patients to not only find help but afford medication and for gods sake ! Big pharma can make a Med that’s weight neutral but they also make tons of meds to treat obesity so they want to make sure they make billions on all those meds too .

I hate Big Pharma !
#endrant

You’re right Christina. I experience adderall bashing. People that call it legal speed and infer that I’m just looking for performance enhancement.

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Default Oct 30, 2019 at 06:05 AM
  #12
Bashing is unfortunate and I didn't find it occured in Lisa Ling's piece at least. Others may disagree.

There are real benefits to all of the meds you guys mention. However, the risks are often glossed over and underreported. The withdrawal process is not properly understood or supported. Both can be true at the same time. We need greater balance. And yes Christina, big pharma is missing the mark on making effective meds without the side effects. I believe they have the funding to do it and lack motivation for the very reasons you mention. You are a well educated consumer and you know what you're getting into and how to navigate. I'm glad you've found a way to use these meds in a way that helps more than it hurts. You are a tremendous example and wealth of knowledge for us all!
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Default Oct 30, 2019 at 02:12 PM
  #13
my problem is that this might be an opening shot in what will turn into a war on benzodiazepines....

and the most vulnerable people/patients will suffer the most, undoubtedly.

other thing...Librium hit the market int he US around 1960 or so. before that, Miltown/Equanil was the "it" non-barbiturate sedative. Librium, in particular, was already known (by psychiatrists, by the drug makers) to be a whole lot like the barbiturates, just a lot safer in OD, and I think fewer drug-drug interactions. true story...before it hit the US market, Librium was widely tested on psych patients, often at massive doses, because...that's how they rolled back then, I guess (?).

the benzodiazepines were not even controlled until I think 84 or so...Schedule IV, except for Rohypnol (not legal). and...thing is, the bad publicity from decades ago -still- affects prescribing, at least where i live. valium was thoroughly demonized, probably in part because it was a top seller for a while, and now...

inexplicably, xanax (not a bad option, but more difficult to taper than valium) is far, far more popular. klonopin is OK, but...it -was- once the last ditch benzodiazepine...then it hit it big...now lots of people are stuck on it.

so, i dunno. maybe im just cynical. i see another round of media coverage that will do more to harm those in need.
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Default Oct 31, 2019 at 03:55 AM
  #14
My issue wasn’t about bashing. It was about how it wasn’t balanced. They did not include the positives. They did not interview someone for whom these meds were lifesavers.

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Default Oct 31, 2019 at 03:59 AM
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Bashing is unfortunate and I didn't find it occured in Lisa Ling's piece at least. Others may disagree.


There are real benefits to all of the meds you guys mention. However, the risks are often glossed over and underreported. The withdrawal process is not properly understood or supported. Both can be true at the same time. We need greater balance. And yes Christina, big pharma is missing the mark on making effective meds without the side effects. I believe they have the funding to do it and lack motivation for the very reasons you mention. You are a well educated consumer and you know what you're getting into and how to navigate. I'm glad you've found a way to use these meds in a way that helps more than it hurts. You are a tremendous example and wealth of knowledge for us all!


Thanks Fern

Yes some Doctors don’t fully explain medications , pros and cons.

But we as consumers also have to be proactive and do research on any medications we put in our bodies. The internet is always right at our finger tips.... there is not a single medication that I take that I didn’t first research it.

Only once while IP I was started on a medication without looking it up... I was full of psychotic. Once I finally was becoming myself again I asked for a computer print out of the medication.

Sure not everyone is as proactive as I am. But that’s why people need to be shown how to research medications...

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Last edited by ~Christina; Oct 31, 2019 at 04:30 AM..
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Default Oct 31, 2019 at 04:19 AM
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You’re right Christina. I experience adderall bashing. People that call it legal speed and infer that I’m just looking for performance enhancement.


People are so uneducated about so many medications.

Sure lots of people joke about the “ blue pill” for men.... but it’s “ socially acceptable”

So medications that treat psych problems of all kinds are just picked to pieces by clueless people.

It’s almost more acceptable today to drink alcohol to relax than take a prescribed medication that your provider feels is correct treatment to help someone manage life better/ easier..

Adderall ? Many people of power snorting lines of coke and god knows what ? Yeah sure that’s better than a FDA approved medication that is indicated if a person has X symptoms??!!! NO Your on Adderall because your Doctor feels it’s the best medication to help you, it’s not a leg up on anyone.

Somedays I just want to be an ostrich and shove my head in the sand to avoid hearing such misinformation being spread like wildfire.

I’d personally like someone to some how experience my anxiety and chronic pain for 2 weeks but don’t tell them it will end at 2 weeks let them assume it’s forever. Then I’d love to sit with them and ask them “ so did you enjoy it?? Do you still think X meds are horrible ??

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Last edited by ~Christina; Oct 31, 2019 at 04:34 AM..
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Default Oct 31, 2019 at 06:28 AM
  #17
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Thanks Fern

Yes some Doctors don’t fully explain medications , pros and cons.

But we as consumers also have to be proactive and do research on any medications we put in our bodies. The internet is always right at our finger tips.... there is not a single medication that I take that I didn’t first research it.

Only once while IP I was started on a medication without looking it up... I was full of psychotic. Once I finally was becoming myself again I asked for a computer print out of the medication.

Sure not everyone is as proactive as I am. But that’s why people need to be shown how to research medications...
I had no ability to research while in IP. There were no computers and they took my phone. They changed my meds several times without talking to me. I was forced into a line each day and handed a cup with my pills each time. I started asking what they were giving me after the heavy sedation wore off enough that I wasn't a complete zombie. I had never had psyc meds before. I had never had an episode before. I was scared and confused. I asked questions and I was treated like a PITA for holding up the line. These same nurses mistreated anyone who was seen as a trouble maker so I kept my head down and took my meds. I didn't think to ask for a packet. That was smart of you.

I asked my dad to research for me several days later. That was the first time I had any real information at all and all he knew to do was bring me the info from the drug companies because that's the 'truth'.

I agree with you that people need to be taught how to do the research. Unfortunately, that system is grass roots and has more holes in it than swiss cheese. I'm an analyst and a strategist and I reaearched like crazy when I got out. By far, the best information I found came from you guys and it took me months before I stumbled across PC.

Sarah, I can see how the piece is one sided. I felt like the doctor explained how the meds could be beneficially used, but that was the only positive part. Obviously though balance was not the intent. I personally feel like that is fair though in a world where countless dollars are spent on drug reps and lobbyists pushing for the other side. 60 min of air time the other way only barely begins to skim the surface of balance in my humble opinion.
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Default Nov 01, 2019 at 04:18 AM
  #18
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Originally Posted by fern46 View Post
I had no ability to research while in IP. There were no computers and they took my phone. They changed my meds several times without talking to me. I was forced into a line each day and handed a cup with my pills each time. I started asking what they were giving me after the heavy sedation wore off enough that I wasn't a complete zombie. I had never had psyc meds before. I had never had an episode before. I was scared and confused. I asked questions and I was treated like a PITA for holding up the line. These same nurses mistreated anyone who was seen as a trouble maker so I kept my head down and took my meds. I didn't think to ask for a packet. That was smart of you.


I asked my dad to research for me several days later. That was the first time I had any real information at all and all he knew to do was bring me the info from the drug companies because that's the 'truth'.


I agree with you that people need to be taught how to do the research. Unfortunately, that system is grass roots and has more holes in it than swiss cheese. I'm an analyst and a strategist and I reaearched like crazy when I got out. By far, the best information I found came from you guys and it took me months before I stumbled across PC.


Sarah, I can see how the piece is one sided. I felt like the doctor explained how the meds could be beneficially used, but that was the only positive part. Obviously though balance was not the intent. I personally feel like that is fair though in a world where countless dollars are spent on drug reps and lobbyists pushing for the other side. 60 min of air time the other way only barely begins to skim the surface of balance in my humble opinion.


I have worked medical all my life so I was aware of being able to research things... but when my life imploded and I went IP being suicidal.. I just swallowed what they gave me , I was in no shape to do anything else. I was discharged like 5 days? later...

I started googling Seroquil and Bipolar about 8-10 ? hours later I stumbled onto PC and started crying as I read threads... I learned so much so quickly !!! 8 years later I am still always learning more.

I have made life long friends here and can’t imagine life without them

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Default Nov 01, 2019 at 11:46 AM
  #19
You guys are all making really good points and I appreciate the discussion. I am old fashioned. To me, the person whose responsibility it is to teach us about risks and benefits of these meds is the prescriber. It's their duty. The problem for many of us, though, is that we have been at times so very sick that the immediate risks of not going ahead with a medication were probably much greater than any short-term risk we might incur. At least, that is my impression. The problem is, once we are stabilized (whatever that word means) and able to have real, actual, coherent conversations, there is rarely, if ever, a follow-up chat about these meds and what their long-term consequences may be. We can do much better on that, I believe.

At the end of the day, patients have a right to know what they are being asked to put in their bodies. If tardive dyskinesia is a potential issue, tell us now. If it's renal failure, we probably should know that, too. And so on. Just tell it like it is. We are not Tom Cruise from A Few Good Men. We can take it.

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