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FluffyDinosaur
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Default Aug 04, 2020 at 09:09 AM
  #1
I take benzos for anxiety and sleep (mostly Lorazepam 2mg). I want to avoid physical dependence and cognitive issues, so I try to take them as little as possible, but that's hard lately. My Pdoc suggested taking them every other day to prevent dependence, which I'm currently doing, but I wonder if that's good enough in the long run. In your experience, will that cause issues?
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Default Aug 05, 2020 at 09:00 AM
  #2
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Originally Posted by FluffyDinosaur View Post
I take benzos for anxiety and sleep (mostly Lorazepam 2mg). I want to avoid physical dependence and cognitive issues, so I try to take them as little as possible, but that's hard lately. My Pdoc suggested taking them every other day to prevent dependence, which I'm currently doing, but I wonder if that's good enough in the long run. In your experience, will that cause issues?
It's hard to say for you. I think it can vary by person. I do think your concern is good and trying to not take it, when possible, is helpful.

I have had Ativan as a PRN for several years now. There was a period when I was taking more than I should have. I was able, at that time, to wean off of it without that much distress. However, some years later I had taken 1 to 2 mg daily for a couple years. That was a little more difficult to get off of, but I did it. Slow weaning off was important for me, so that I didn't experience bad withdrawals.

Is it possible for you to eventually get down to 1 mg per day? Or 1 mg every other day? Perhaps that may be enough to achieve what you need from it.

I have taken a small dose of Klonopin daily for about 9 years now. My psychiatrist said that is particularly difficult to get off of after long-term use. I think it is likely that Ativan is easier for many people, but others may disagree.
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Default Aug 05, 2020 at 09:17 AM
  #3
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Originally Posted by Soupe du jour View Post
It's hard to say for you. I think it can vary by person. I do think your concern is good and trying to not take it, when possible, is helpful.

I have had Ativan as a PRN for several years now. There was a period when I was taking more than I should have. I was able, at that time, to wean off of it without that much distress. However, some years later I had taken 1 to 2 mg daily for a couple years. That was a little more difficult to get off of, but I did it. Slow weaning off was important for me, so that I didn't experience bad withdrawals.

Is it possible for you to eventually get down to 1 mg per day? Or 1 mg every other day? Perhaps that may be enough to achieve what you need from it.

I have taken a small dose of Klonopin daily for about 9 years now. My psychiatrist said that is particularly difficult to get off of after long-term use. I think it is likely that Ativan is easier for many people, but others may disagree.

Yes, I can certainly try to get down to 1mg. To be honest I'm not sure how well I would sleep on that, all I know is 2mg works well enough. It's worth a try.

It's a tricky balance to maintain because if I don't sleep, it makes me more prone to bipolar episodes. I tend to have sleep problems that are mood-related, but normally I at least sleep okay for a few weeks here and there. Now, however, I have two babies, so I sleep badly all the time if I don't use any meds.
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Default Aug 06, 2020 at 09:37 AM
  #4
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Originally Posted by FluffyDinosaur View Post
Yes, I can certainly try to get down to 1mg. To be honest I'm not sure how well I would sleep on that, all I know is 2mg works well enough. It's worth a try.

It's a tricky balance to maintain because if I don't sleep, it makes me more prone to bipolar episodes. I tend to have sleep problems that are mood-related, but normally I at least sleep okay for a few weeks here and there. Now, however, I have two babies, so I sleep badly all the time if I don't use any meds.
I could imagine that two little ones would be an extra challenge.

Have you added other sleep hygiene strategies? I'm talking really basic stuff, like a sound machine, better sleeping environment if applicable (dark, cooler, etc.). I have even found that yogurt is helpful. There are other foods known to help, as well (certain nuts, turkey, other dairy products, chamomile tea). I'm sure some people would laugh off these suggestions, but I am a believer, and they are not harmful in the least bit.

Again, I have no idea what will be best for you, but I can say that I observed a rather interesting thing when I lowered my Ativan down from unapproved higher doses. There was a point when I was taking 4 to 6 mg of Ativan, when I was only supposed to be taking maximum 3 mg per day. My anxiety worsened and worsened as I went up in the dose. When I started weaning myself down to PRN (with my pdoc's demand), my anxiety actually lessened. Weird, but true. I'm not sure if such a phenomenon would happen with sleep, but who knows.
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Default Aug 06, 2020 at 09:50 AM
  #5
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Originally Posted by Soupe du jour View Post
I could imagine that two little ones would be an extra challenge.

Have you added other sleep hygiene strategies? I'm talking really basic stuff, like a sound machine, better sleeping environment if applicable (dark, cooler, etc.). I have even found that yogurt is helpful. There are other foods known to help, as well (certain nuts, turkey, other dairy products, chamomile tea). I'm sure some people would laugh off these suggestions, but I am a believer, and they are not harmful in the least bit.

Again, I have no idea what will be best for you, but I can say that I observed a rather interesting thing when I lowered my Ativan down from unapproved higher doses. There was a point when I was taking 4 to 6 mg of Ativan, when I was only supposed to be taking maximum 3 mg per day. My anxiety worsened and worsened as I went up in the dose. When I started weaning myself down to PRN (with my pdoc's demand), my anxiety actually lessened. Weird, but true. I'm not sure if such a phenomenon would happen with sleep, but who knows.
Yes, this is a major part of why I dislike summer: too much light and heat in the evenings. We don't have airconditioning, but I recently bought a "mobile" airconditioner because there's a heat wave approaching. Hopefully it will help. Without it we get 90+ degrees in our bedroom, which is just impossible to sleep in.

Other than that I try to take it easy a few hours before bed (just reading mostly), although how much time I have for that depends on how easily the kids go to sleep. I try not to be distracted by anything stressful in the evenings. I've also tried white noise and ear plugs but I find they don't work for me. I've had ear plugs custom made for sleeping, but I still find them uncomfortable. Sometimes I listen to a sleep meditation. I don't really care for the spiritual aspect of it, it's just the voice that can be relaxing.

The stupid thing is that because of my sleep issues, sleep has become such a source of anxiety that it's become a vicious cycle. If I know I have to sleep well, for example because I have to be well-rested the next day, then that's pretty much a guarantee that my mind is going to be racing all night. In those cases, sleep meds are the only thing that really helps.
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Default Aug 06, 2020 at 05:42 PM
  #6
Hi Fluffy, I've been on Klonopin for 25-plus years and am entirely physically addicted to it. I have never had a pdoc who encouraged me to stop taking it, but I would like to, because it isn't doing anything to help me anymore - not for many years.

If I were to re-do my "benzo
experience" I would have been very careful not to take it every day. I would have started off with a much lower dose than my first prescriber prescribed for me. In other words, the very lowest dose to be effective.

I would never have taken it for more than a month at a time without giving myself a full week off. So during the course of 30 days I would have taken the K-pin maybe 4 or 5 times/week, then have a full 7 days when I didn't take it at all. And that schedule would have been the maximum days I would have taken it. Ideally, a smaller number would have been better (less days, I mean).


With such a schedule I would have avoided building up a tolerance to the benzo and needing more for the same effect - or, where I'm at now, which is using the same dosage just to avoid the severe withdrawal symptoms.

If you're used to using only benzos to sleep, maybe try something like ZzzQuil or straight NyQuil to alternate with the benzo.

Please be very cautious with any benzo. I literally have a benzo monkey on my back - and that is by taking it exactly as it was originally prescribed to me.

btw, the heat you're having to live with sounds atrocious. I have a window a/c that doesn't do much (if anything) for my bedroom, but I use several fans. I wouldn't be able to sleep without them - both for the cooler air and the sound.

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Default Aug 07, 2020 at 01:31 AM
  #7
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Originally Posted by BethRags View Post
Hi Fluffy, I've been on Klonopin for 25-plus years and am entirely physically addicted to it. I have never had a pdoc who encouraged me to stop taking it, but I would like to, because it isn't doing anything to help me anymore - not for many years.

If I were to re-do my "benzo
experience" I would have been very careful not to take it every day. I would have started off with a much lower dose than my first prescriber prescribed for me. In other words, the very lowest dose to be effective.

I would never have taken it for more than a month at a time without giving myself a full week off. So during the course of 30 days I would have taken the K-pin maybe 4 or 5 times/week, then have a full 7 days when I didn't take it at all. And that schedule would have been the maximum days I would have taken it. Ideally, a smaller number would have been better (less days, I mean).

With such a schedule I would have avoided building up a tolerance to the benzo and needing more for the same effect - or, where I'm at now, which is using the same dosage just to avoid the severe withdrawal symptoms.

If you're used to using only benzos to sleep, maybe try something like ZzzQuil or straight NyQuil to alternate with the benzo.

Please be very cautious with any benzo. I literally have a benzo monkey on my back - and that is by taking it exactly as it was originally prescribed to me.

btw, the heat you're having to live with sounds atrocious. I have a window a/c that doesn't do much (if anything) for my bedroom, but I use several fans. I wouldn't be able to sleep without them - both for the cooler air and the sound.

Thank you, you've convinced me to be even more careful with the benzos. I don't think I've developed a tolerance yet; I haven't needed a higher dosage and I haven't noticed any withdrawal effects besides not sleeping as well (which I think is because of my own brain and not due to withdrawal).

What I'm trying now is to take a small dose of Seroquel IR (in addition to my XR) in the evening, instead of the benzos. That seems to work, kind of, but I know it's not a long-term solution either (especially since I want to get off Seroquel). It's just that between depression, kids, and trying to work and function normally, I really can't handle sleep deprivation right now. What I really need to do is find a way to get stable...

For now at least I've bought a "mobile" AC unit for the bedroom, and that gets temperatures down to a tolerable level. Hopefully in another week we'll be done with the heat for this year. Often I sleep better in winter because of the dark evenings and the cold.
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Default Aug 07, 2020 at 07:48 AM
  #8
Sleep deprivation is hell on earth for me, so I understand how you feel.

I swore I'd never touch Seroquel again after finally going off of it. But here I am, back on 25mg so I can sleep.

There might not be anything that can derail stability like loss of sleep. Iy sounds like you're doing everything possible, Fluffy.

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Default Aug 08, 2020 at 10:28 PM
  #9
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Originally Posted by BethRags View Post
Sleep deprivation is hell on earth for me, so I understand how you feel.

I swore I'd never touch Seroquel again after finally going off of it. But here I am, back on 25mg so I can sleep.

There might not be anything that can derail stability like loss of sleep. Iy sounds like you're doing everything possible, Fluffy.
I went off seroquel, too, and am back on 50 mg for sleep. I can't find my pill cutter or I'd cut the 50's in half.

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Default Aug 09, 2020 at 03:38 AM
  #10
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I went off seroquel, too, and am back on 50 mg for sleep. I can't find my pill cutter or I'd cut the 50's in half.

Yeah, I'm nervous about that one, too. I've been completely off Seroquel for two days now. First day I couldn't sleep at all, but it might have been the heat and anxiety. Nights like that were not unusual for me even before I ever took Seroquel. The second night I took benzos and slept. Now we'll see what happens tonight without benzos...

I've noticed some of my symptoms getting worse without the Seroquel, but I think it might be Seroquel withdrawal, so I'll give it a week or two before I decide whether or not to go back on. Would really rather avoid it because I don't like the side effects.
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Default Aug 16, 2020 at 03:50 AM
  #11
Hey @Soupe du jour: Did you know that out of all the benzos Ativan is the one more likely to cause mood disturbances? In particular emotional feelings like crying, anxiety and depression? I think this could be a bipolar issue, I forget if my doctor said that was the only case. A few years back I was on xanax but felt like the dependence possibility or addiction possibility was too dangerous for me personally. I tried ativan and couldnt figure out why I was suddenly so emotional. It was almost like I was on the edge of a cliff of a bipolar episode. I went back to my Dr after a month and she told me that this happens sometimes with bipolar patients. She said although it was a benzo, not all benzos are created equal. Many years ago after a sleep study the sleep doctor had me try Klonopin for sleep. It turned me into a drooling, slurry mess. Xanax was ok for me but being an alcoholic it was just too easy to take more than I needed so rather than that I came off of it. I was off benzos for 5 or so years and then my daughter ran away, came home and went to rehab, and various other crisis's. She got pregnant on purpose. Basically it was 2 years of constant chaos and hell. She moved in five minutes away from us with her boyfriend and we just had to accept that our grandchild was on the way. Things are better now and I adore my grandson but for those 2 years I needed something so I was on valium which was very good because it has a long half life and I never felt impaired. Now I stopped valium and am on no benzos. I have been very lucky to never having had w/d. I was able to just wean off myself over a few days and that was it. It can be very hard for some people, even dangerous. But I thought it was interesting learning this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soupe du jour View Post
I could imagine that two little ones would be an extra challenge.

Have you added other sleep hygiene strategies? I'm talking really basic stuff, like a sound machine, better sleeping environment if applicable (dark, cooler, etc.). I have even found that yogurt is helpful. There are other foods known to help, as well (certain nuts, turkey, other dairy products, chamomile tea). I'm sure some people would laugh off these suggestions, but I am a believer, and they are not harmful in the least bit.

Again, I have no idea what will be best for you, but I can say that I observed a rather interesting thing when I lowered my Ativan down from unapproved higher doses. There was a point when I was taking 4 to 6 mg of Ativan, when I was only supposed to be taking maximum 3 mg per day. My anxiety worsened and worsened as I went up in the dose. When I started weaning myself down to PRN (with my pdoc's demand), my anxiety actually lessened. Weird, but true. I'm not sure if such a phenomenon would happen with sleep, but who knows.

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Default Aug 16, 2020 at 07:55 AM
  #12
Hi @sarahsweets

I didn't know that about Ativan. I am glad I rarely take it, nowadays. I do hope I can someday get off of Klonopin, too.

Sorry you had a stressful period with your daughter. It would have been anxiety provoking for me, too. I am glad the situation turned out OK in the end.
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Default Aug 16, 2020 at 07:56 AM
  #13
It's been my experience and what I've learned that the body can quickly acclimate to benzodiazepines and it can be hard to get off them. I was placed on Klonopin in the past following a mixed episode and within a few months it was very very difficult to get off. I'm glad I got off it.
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Default Aug 17, 2020 at 03:56 AM
  #14
Thanks all, I've decided to try and cut out the benzos as much as I can (only use them sporadically). I've stopped about 4 days ago and so far am not noticing any withdrawal. The only thing is I can't sleep, but that's "normal" for me during episodes. It kind of sucks that I can't use benzos for that now, but ultimately I hope it's for the best.
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Default Aug 19, 2020 at 02:48 PM
  #15
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Originally Posted by sarahsweets View Post
Hey @Soupe du jour: Did you know that out of all the benzos Ativan is the one more likely to cause mood disturbances? In particular emotional feelings like crying, anxiety and depression? I think this could be a bipolar issue, I forget if my doctor said that was the only case. A few years back I was on xanax but felt like the dependence possibility or addiction possibility was too dangerous for me personally. I tried ativan and couldnt figure out why I was suddenly so emotional. It was almost like I was on the edge of a cliff of a bipolar episode. I went back to my Dr after a month and she told me that this happens sometimes with bipolar patients. She said although it was a benzo, not all benzos are created equal. Many years ago after a sleep study the sleep doctor had me try Klonopin for sleep. It turned me into a drooling, slurry mess. Xanax was ok for me but being an alcoholic it was just too easy to take more than I needed so rather than that I came off of it. I was off benzos for 5 or so years and then my daughter ran away, came home and went to rehab, and various other crisis's. She got pregnant on purpose. Basically it was 2 years of constant chaos and hell. She moved in five minutes away from us with her boyfriend and we just had to accept that our grandchild was on the way. Things are better now and I adore my grandson but for those 2 years I needed something so I was on valium which was very good because it has a long half life and I never felt impaired. Now I stopped valium and am on no benzos. I have been very lucky to never having had w/d. I was able to just wean off myself over a few days and that was it. It can be very hard for some people, even dangerous. But I thought it was interesting learning this.
How interesting, Sarah--had not heard it.

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