Symptoms between BP and BPD

I've been diagnosed with Bipolar 2 and I notice I may have some of the symptoms of Borderline Personality Disorder. The symptoms almost seem to go hand in hand with both diagnoses. What would you say are the main symptoms that qualifies it as Borderline Personality Disorder and not Bipolar?

BPD is reactions to situations out of proportion to it.

BP is a mood episode change

Many people have both to some some degree

I have a trait .. a almost constant fear of abandonment.

I totally agree with Christina. BPD is almost constant as you are reacting to social an environmental conditions. It is almost always caused by trauma and can be often treated successfully with a good therapist and hard work.

BP on the other hand is mood swings that can be triggered but usually come out of the blue. Often periods of relative stable occur in between episodes. BP cannot be cured but usually can be managed and calmed down by meds and/or therapy.

I don't have Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD), but in my Abnormal Psychology class and in the DSM-5 one unique symptom of Borderline Personality Disorder is fear of perceived or actual abandonment. That's not usually an issue for people with bipolar disorder (BP) alone. Also, BPD has more emotional reactivity. Self harm tendencies (i e. cutting) tend to be more common in people with Borderline Personality disorder than bipolar. Relationship issues because of emotional turbulence is common in borderline and not so much, if at all, in bipolar disorder. Then there is the issue of ultra rapid mood swings. Some doctors may incorrectly attribute them to bipolar when they may really be borderline personality symptoms. Some may call such symptoms mixed features, but generally mixed episodes most often last days or weeks in a row with little to no breaks, or are preceded by and/or followed by notable periods of pure depressive or hypo/manic symptoms, or stability. Not that people with bipolar disorder can't have mood lability, but borderline mood lability traditionally has emotional triggers vs. triggers (or none) more traditionally associated with bipolar disorder. Many people with bipolar disorder have periods of remission and/or clear switches between hypo/manic states lasting days or weeks or months to depressions lasting days to weeks to months.

I may be wrong about this, but from what I've learned, a person with Borderline Personality disorder may be considered an "emotionally volatile person by nature". Many people with bipolar aren't. They may more often have a typical standard baseline that only changes if they are experiencing episodes of depression or some level of mania (or mixed features). For example, as a person with bipolar disorder only, my personality is mostly positive with hyperthymia and good energy. Only during depressive episodes does my motivation and energy plummet and outlook diminish. When I'm hypomanic and manic, my energy levels soar and I become more impulsive, I talk rapidly, my mind races, I become distractible, need far less sleep, am either elated or irritable (or irritable only when seemingly provoked), perhaps grandiose, and other clear-cut manic symptoms that continue most or all of the day usually for days, unless treated.

My mood episodes respond to effective bipolar moodstabilizers and antipsychotics. I cannot take antidepressants without ramifications, especially not without a moodstabilizer and/or antipsychotic. Borderline Personality disorder symptoms are not treated as effectively as bipolar disorder can be with medications alone. Therapy, like Dialectical Behavioral Therapy is generally the first line treatment for Borderline Personality Disorder (with meds as a possible assistant). Moodstabilizers and/or antipsychotics are first line treatments for bipolar disorder, with therapy a highly recommended compliment.

I realize that BPD and BP have a number of overlapping symptoms, but with time (careful observation), and a really good therapist and/or psychiatrist, hopefully a proper diagnosis of one or the other (or both) can be made.

I would add that BPD has a cause (social and/or situational triggers) while bipolar is more seasonal and/or cyclical.

It's not so much the symptoms as it is the underlying cause for them.

If you have any doubts, tmg4me, I'd suggest to talk to your Pdoc about this and see how it goes from there. Sometime symptoms can definitely overlap and it can be difficult identifying them. But I do believe they're still separate things. Wish you good luck! Let us know how it goes. Sending many hugs to you

Very interesting information BirdDancer. Thank you all for your responses. I am definitely a very emotional reactionary person. My reactions to some situations are out of the norm. Especially anger, irritability and depression. I've been told by a friend that I overreact to things that happen in my life. And I dwell on them and stay in that emotion for a long time. I don't let things go and it strongly affects my emotions. I will talk to my Pdoc when I see her in a week.

I think BirdDancer gives a great overview of BPD and the differences between it and Bipolar Disorder. I especially like the comments about mixed states. I truly think they can easily be mistaken for ultra rapid cycling, ping-ponging from one mood to the other (as opposed to simultaneous, which is so hard to describe/distinguish anyway) sometimes as a reaction to relationship issues.

Unfortunately, I think both can be easily misdiagnosed by pdocs who are either afraid to stigmatize patients (diagnose BPD) or are in too much of a hurry.

There was another thread about how long it takes to diagnose BP. I think an hour-long (or more) evaluation is a good start, but observation over time, I think, is the key. I think this is why some pdocs first diagnose BP NOS in patients they think might have BP based on the initial evaluation, but they have yet to witness any episodes themselves and are only going on the self-reported history of the patient.

I think that to know if someone, in fact, has BPD (and not BP) you also really need to observe them over time. How they relate to their pdoc, to their T (if there's communication between pdoc and T), how they report they relate to others in their lives, how long their moods last, and due to what trigger. This takes time, and I think too many pdocs are too quick to diagnose BP because they don't want to engage in this watch and wait period.

Just my two cents...