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still_crazy
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Default May 07, 2019 at 08:18 AM
  #1
OK. so, there is a story in the local news, in my area...

a middle-aged man (early 50s) was waiting for a psych evaluation at a local hospital. he did some vandalism, he's now in jail. and...

i'm kind of wondering, honestly...a couple things. im wondering if being labeled and treated by the psych system -sometimes- erodes self-control and such in some people, sometimes...which contributes to this sort of behavior...

and I'm also wondering what is up with our culture, because if he's scheduled for an evaluation and he does this, shouldn't they just send him off to a hospital and keep him there?

it could also be a reflection not so much of US culture -as a whole- , but of the red state 'conservatism' (complete with budget cuts) that reigns supreme where I live. I'm kind of thinking...

this dude is probably below middle class, because based on my own experiences w/ 'mental health professionals' in this general area...

it isn't until one hits the middle class that treatment becomes less controlling and punitive. and then above that, treatment can actually be humane.

what do you all think?
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Default May 07, 2019 at 08:44 AM
  #2
The issues you referenced are indeed serious and I agree that it seems clear that income level affects treatment way too often. Unfortunately, other factors, like the color of ones skin or religion, way too often contribute to a difference, as well. I'm sure this is especially so in some places more than others, but it happens everywhere, including "blue" states of the US.

I can't offer a judgement specifically on the man you describe. I would need more info. I do, however, believe that many crimes committed when a person is seriously mentally ill should not be treated the same as those when not. It's sad that they often are, and mentally ill in jails/prisons are even frequently treated worse than prisoners who are not mentally ill.

I strongly recommend that anyone interested in this issue read Pete Earley's book "Crazy: A Father's Search Through America's Mental Health Madness". Pete Earley also has a good website of info at Pete Earley - Bestselling Author and Mental Health Advocate

Voting and advocacy are important in making changes to the issues discussed here. Reasonable and compassionate prison reform (criminal justice reform) is on the agenda of many politicians of one of the two major political parties in the US. Writing letters or talking to elected officials helps, too. Even to those of the political party seemingly less concerned. Perhaps even more important, to them! I have done this many times and included this very concern. Organizations like NAMI can provide guidance on mental health advocacy. It is a high priority for them.

Last edited by Anonymous46341; May 07, 2019 at 09:09 AM..
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Default May 07, 2019 at 10:07 PM
  #3
All I can say is I have a family member in a senior role in mental health who was bashed severely enough to have a spinal injury. Personally I would’ve liked to have seen incarcerated for life.
Long after he’s mental stability is regained my sister’s life will be stuffed.

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Default May 07, 2019 at 10:21 PM
  #4
What's needed for people in that situation, who are charged with committing a crime while they are waiting for a psychiatric assessment is a forensic psychiatry ward. Depending on the nature of the crime, the regular psych ward may not be able to handle the person.

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Default May 08, 2019 at 06:24 AM
  #5
An incident in my local hospital has lead to the decision that they allow no psych patients past the ED doors. I was given the option of a ward 120 miles or 80 miles away. I chose to be drugged up to the eyeballs, put on suicide watch and returned home. I have been up there before and left for hours before being accessed. I can understand someone already needing to be helped losing it. If recognized as a psych patient, ones should be sedated as soon as possible.

I don't know how nurses and other medical staff deal with what they do. Over 90% have been attacked at some stage. Police should be involved at attendance to ED and risks assessed before an incident occurs. But there's not the police numbers needed to do so.

To Pookyl, my heart goes out to your sister. We all are responsible for our actions. Whoever this person was, should have attended ED sooner, before losing control and destroying another persons life. Or informed staff at presenting they were a danger to themselves or others. Unfortunately, the system leaves us believing its better to. hide our true condition. Many of us have had truly horrible assessments and experiences, and as such, one becomes very wary of what information we volunteer. However like I said, we are responsible for our actions.

I hope your sister regains her quality of life, sadly it will never be as good as what she deserves, but at least to the full extent possible.
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Default May 08, 2019 at 07:59 AM
  #6
Quote:
Originally Posted by still_crazy View Post

i'm kind of wondering, honestly...a couple things. im wondering if being labeled and treated by the psych system -sometimes- erodes self-control and such in some people, sometimes...which contributes to this sort of behavior...
This was certainly the case for me. With each successive episode I became angrier at how I was treated by so called medical professionals. It was worse than the way animals are treated where I live at times. The last time I was put in a forensic psychiatric ward for a month and charged with things like evading police, because I was afraid of police as they had been banging on my doors repeatedly. Eventually they broke my door down, ransacked my house and dragged me off. While I was handcuffed one officer pinched my upper arm and left a big bruise on it.

I had some delusional beliefs and was acting on those beliefs. In retrospect it was a very dangerous situation even though the actual charges were trumped up. For instance they said I ran a red light but there is a camera there (and no photograph because I didn't run that or any light) and eventually had to drop all the dangerous driving charges because that part was clearly made up and therefore the rest of what the officer had to say was unreliable.

My experience with hospitalization where I live has been nothing short of horrible. The best option I to take an AP every day so I don't start having thoughts that I am part of a conspiracy to take over the world.

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Default May 08, 2019 at 11:29 AM
  #7
a middle-aged man (early 50s) was waiting for a psych evaluation at a local hospital. he did some vandalism, he's now in jail.

first off, it doesn't say what kind or how much vandalism. there is a difference between tossing a chair, box of tissues or seriously trashing & destroying equipment & placing staff at risk.

we (, health care, law enforcement, everyone) want this man to be safe. safety..so obviously if he can not be safe in a hospital environment due to the vandalism (and again we don't know the level) then perhaps a jail cell might be the best option. again safety for ALL. the jail might have psychiatric services you don't know. it might be a jail ward, you don't know.

yes psychiatric services suck, not debating that here. just stating that safety for all is the issue. if someone walked into a store, or even the ED without psych issues and did vandalism he (or she) would face the same consequences..actually probably worse..given the known history of a needed evaluation chances are he will receive better treatment down the road. he will get that exam, and it will be factored into his case.
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Default May 08, 2019 at 11:49 AM
  #8
I didn't appreciate that I was a danger to myself and others when I was really ill, and I also didn't appreciate the heedless direction I was heading in before I became really ill. Factor that with my desire to avoid hospitalization at all costs because I have been locked up in psych wards against my will just for voluntarily going to ER and being sectioned and having my rights taken away for weeks at a time.

It's a very difficult situation to deal with people who are psychotic but may have no place they feel is safe to get help. He was clearly trying to get help so that should count for something.

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