Do you think that BP meds change us permanently?

Jul 07, 2019 at 05:44 AM

I used to be a raging, violent person. Then I was put on lamictal and my dose was increased to 400mg. At that point, the anger subsided and I became a calm person. Next thing I know, I start taking Rexulti, go off it, and I become a raging mess again. But prior to the Rexulti, I was fine anger wise. Now without it, I'm perpetually angry.

I'm still taking rexulti, but I'm talking about my experience in the past, where I was off it for a solid 3 weeks and was angry the entire time (i.e., it wasn't really withdrawal). I think it's changed me permanently.

Ezrigirl · Jul 07, 2019 at 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluebicycle

I used to be a raging, violent person. Then I was put on lamictal and my dose was increased to 400mg. At that point, the anger subsided and I became a calm person. Next thing I know, I start taking Rexulti, go off it, and I become a raging mess again. But prior to the Rexulti, I was fine anger wise. Now without it, I'm perpetually angry.

I'm still taking rexulti, but I'm talking about my experience in the past, where I was off it for a solid 3 weeks and was angry the entire time (i.e., it wasn't really withdrawal). I think it's changed me permanently.

Without treatment being bipolar, I am my two older sisters were violent to without treatment. It is strange to be a child and a teenager, and be a female who is violent. More strange, when all three sisters are violent as well. We were untreated as children and teenagers. You look to be lucky, because only you were violent as a child and teenager with just yourself.

I have been on Rexulti for a long time. I am not violent, but I am numb to the point were I feel nothing. I do not know about you, but I find role playing and doing something violent with my partner is relaxing and takes any feelings of violence away. Not sure your a man or a woman, but violence with females is very different to manage then males.

MickeyCheeky · Jul 07, 2019 at 06:15 AM

I'd say they definitely bring a change but I don't think it has to be permanent. Of course every person is different. In your case it's like that your body and brain got so used to the Meds that without them it has been harder for you to feel stable. That's just my opinion anyway. I believe it is possible to be stable even without Meds but it requires work in therapy. I'm not sure if you're already seeing a therapist right now but if you aren't perhaps you may consider it. The goal of therapy should be to give you the tools to work with yourself; Meds can help but they're not the only solution in my opinion. I hope you'll get better soon! Keep working on yourself like you're already WONDERFULLY doing. I also agree with Ezrigirl's wise advice. Perhaps you can try to buy a punching bag and use that to vent your anger. Perhaps you may even do some physical exercises. Just some ideas for you. You don't have to accept them. We ALL wish you plenty of peace and hope for you. Sending many safe, warm hugs to you, bluebicycle, and to ALL the people you Love and who TRULY Love you!

fern46 · Jul 07, 2019 at 07:04 AM

I hope not, but I fear they do. My brain feels slower after the meds. My expertise lies in breaking down complex scenarios and putting them back together in new and improved ways. I'm fearful my ability to do that effectively is being compromised. I feel like I could go back to work and do it, but it wouldn't be as easy for me as it used to be. Also, I feel like my extreme psychotic episode fried my brain and changed me. It is hard to distinguish if the meds are to blame or if the shock my brain experienced is the culprit.

My doctors are talking about possibly taking me off meds in a few months. I might find out the answer to this.

Jul 07, 2019 at 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MickeyCheeky

I'd say they definitely bring a change but I don't think it has to be permanent. Of course every person is different. In your case it's like that your body and brain got so used to the Meds that without them it has been harder for you to feel stable. That's just my opinion anyway. I believe it is possible to be stable even without Meds but it requires work in therapy. I'm not sure if you're already seeing a therapist right now but if you aren't perhaps you may consider it. The goal of therapy should be to give you the tools to work with yourself; Meds can help but they're not the only solution in my opinion. I hope you'll get better soon! Keep working on yourself like you're already WONDERFULLY doing. I also agree with Ezrigirl's wise advice. Perhaps you can try to buy a punching bag and use that to vent your anger. Perhaps you may even do some physical exercises. Just some ideas for you. You don't have to accept them. We ALL wish you plenty of peace and hope for you. Sending many safe, warm hugs to you, bluebicycle, and to ALL the people you Love and who TRULY Love you!

Thanks MickeyCheeky

I am in therapy, but nothing besides medication seems to help with the anger. I think of the anger as being on the same level as depression in the sense that I am angry for no reason, just like we can get depressed for no reason.

I would try a punching bag (I actually used to do boxing workouts in my local gym before I moved), but they'd make too much noise in my apartment, especially since I live on the 2nd floor. Now that I've moved, the new local gym (which is free at my apartment complex) wants to charge a $60 a month to use the punching bags because the punching bags are part of an "elite" membership only, and you can't even use them most of the time because apparently there are classes that use them.

So I'm stuck with weights and treadmills only. Not even exercise bikes or ellipticals because those are with the "elite" membership too.

Jul 07, 2019 at 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ezrigirl

Without treatment being bipolar, I am my two older sisters were violent to without treatment. It is strange to be a child and a teenager, and be a female who is violent. More strange, when all three sisters are violent as well. We were untreated as children and teenagers. You look to be lucky, because only you were violent as a child and teenager with just yourself.

I have been on Rexulti for a long time. I am not violent, but I am numb to the point were I feel nothing. I do not know about you, but I find role playing and doing something violent with my partner is relaxing and takes any feelings of violence away. Not sure your a man or a woman, but violence with females is very different to manage then males.

Yeah, I'm female. I used to punch people and slam them against walls when I was a teenager. I've hit my dad upside the head with a hardcover book before, and I've shoved him against walls etc.. Also punched him. All as a teenager, though, before meds.

I don't know what violent things I can do. As I said to mickeycheeky, I can't even do punching bags. Any ideas?

Ezrigirl · Jul 07, 2019 at 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MickeyCheeky

I also agree with Ezrigirl's wise advice. Perhaps you can try to buy a punching bag and use that to vent your anger.

Never thought about a punching bag. Very few places to work out have a punching bag. Taking up boxing is a great place to work out and keep fit. True, with so much brain damage with boxing, places to train have been shutting down.

Blue, if you ever feel anger and you are feeling violent. Your free to contact me, and we call talk about being bipolar with feelings with anger.

Jul 07, 2019 at 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fern46

I hope not, but I fear they do. My brain feels slower after the meds. My expertise lies in breaking down complex scenarios and putting them back together in new and improved ways. I'm fearful my ability to do that effectively is being compromised. I feel like I could go back to work and do it, but it wouldn't be as easy for me as it used to be. Also, I feel like my extreme psychotic episode fried my brain and changed me. It is hard to distinguish if the meds are to blame or if the shock my brain experienced is the culprit.

My doctors are talking about possibly taking me off meds in a few months. I might find out the answer to this.

I hope you're able to find the answer, too.

I am aware of the kindling theory, but I still have a strong feeling that the meds have permanently changed the way my brain has wired itself. I'm not saying that I need to stop taking meds; rather, I'm saying that now I need them for certain things that I never needed them before for.

Also, my anxiety was never bad when I was younger. I don't even recall having much anxiety. Now since starting meds, I suddenly have anxiety, and that anxiety won't go away even when I stop my meds completely.

Ezrigirl · Jul 07, 2019 at 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluebicycle

Yeah, I'm female. I used to punch people and slam them against walls when I was a teenager. I've hit my dad upside the head with a hardcover book before, and I've shoved him against walls etc.. Also punched him. All as a teenager, though, before meds.

I don't know what violent things I can do. As I said to mickeycheeky, I can't even do punching bags. Any ideas?

Blue, were both female, and were 29 and 25 years of age. Me and my sisters were very violent with each other. Maybe I was more violent than you as a teenager. Send me a PM, and we can work something between us dealing with our violent past.

Blue_Bird · Jul 07, 2019 at 07:40 AM

I'm the same person, just stable on the meds and not out of my mind so I'm able to actually function and have a normal/happy life the way I was before the mental illness started. I'm sure meds have had some cognitive effects though, my short term memory is horrendous now and I'm only 25. Also, I don't know if any damage was done to my brain when I was in the ICU with severe Lithium toxicity for 8 days and had seizures and kidney failure. I don't have my medical records from then and don't remember much of what happened. I've read that it can cause brain damage in severe cases. I'm sure it had some kind of lasting effects, nothing major though thankfully.

Victoria'smom · Jul 07, 2019 at 07:42 AM

I was violent without an AP. I get very agitated without one. I think it's just progression of BP. I'm hesident to blame meds because without meds things get a lot worse.

Ezrigirl · Jul 07, 2019 at 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue_Bird

I'm the same person, just stable on the meds and not out of my mind so I'm able to actually function and have a normal/happy life the way I was before the mental illness started. I'm sure meds have had some cognitive effects though, my short term memory is horrendous now and I'm only 25. Also, I don't know if any damage was done to my brain when I was in the ICU with severe Lithium toxicity for 8 days and had seizures and kidney failure. I don't have my medical records from then and don't remember much of what happened. I've read that it can cause brain damage in severe cases. I'm sure it had some kind of lasting effects, nothing major though thankfully.

Was first started on lithium, and was on it for years. The problem with lithium, it is just a salt and there is little research dealing with lithium since the 1970's. In fact, the data for lithium was done with males and baseline treatment level was for a 180 pound male. There is really little data dealing with lithium and females.

Lithium, can and will do damage to kidneys and liver. It also drys out the mouth and cause tooth decay as well. I already had a kidney stone because of Lithium. I have been at such a high level of Lithium that my hands would be shacking. Shaking so bad, I could not use knives and forks to eat food. I was shaking so bad, I could not use a fork or spoon and get it into my mouth. The food was on a plate, and it was right in front of me. So I just ended up being hungry.

Take care sister

Jul 07, 2019 at 08:33 AM

I can't speak for everyone or every medication, but I think I'm about the best I've ever been, in key ways, now after about 15 years of taking medications. Any changes, in my case, were from my illness itself (trauma and similar).

I think good therapy worked well can also be highly helpful. It has been for me.

You can try the punching bag idea, but I wouldn't. I find managing anger in more therapeutic ways better. I refer to challenging dysfunctional thinking and similar techniques.

~Christina · Jul 07, 2019 at 12:19 PM

Do I think psych meds cause long term effects to the way a brain functions ? Absolutely.

There have been MRI studies done on people with Bipolar off meds and on them. Short periods of time and for years worth.

I have been off my psych meds about 5 months now and once I got past the half life and then my brain returning to function sans meds, I feel I’m doing well, well besides the ptsd bit of course. But I do feel dumbed down mentally if I compare how I function now vs even 10 years ago.

I have worked in medical all my life , I feel every single medication psych or physical has an effect on our brains many of us have ridden the Med Merry Go Round more times than we even want to think about.

There’s some studies than show taking an AP has actually shown shrinkage of the size of our brain overall.

Bipolar is just so complex

fern46 · Jul 07, 2019 at 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluebicycle

I hope you're able to find the answer, too.

I am aware of the kindling theory, but I still have a strong feeling that the meds have permanently changed the way my brain has wired itself. I'm not saying that I need to stop taking meds; rather, I'm saying that now I need them for certain things that I never needed them before for.

Also, my anxiety was never bad when I was younger. I don't even recall having much anxiety. Now since starting meds, I suddenly have anxiety, and that anxiety won't go away even when I stop my meds completely.

Makes sense that the brain would eventually adapt to compensate for the shift in chemistry due to the meds. I hear you on the anxiety issue as well. I was taking Risperdal and all of a sudden I was worried about how to fill up my days. I stressed about every hour and almost down to the minute at some point. It was so strange as I had never felt that before. I told my pdoc about it and he considered adding another med to control the anxiety. I reminded him I am extremely med sensitive, so he weaned me off the Risperdal instead. The anxiety dissipated as soon as I was off it. It made me frustrated to know the medicine I was taking to control one mental health issue caused another. It feels like one big game of whack a mole. I wonder if the anxiety would have turned into a permanent issue if he had kept me on Risperdal and added Ativan like he wanted to initially.

Ezrigirl · Jul 07, 2019 at 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~Christina

I have been off my psych meds about 5 months now and once I got past the half life and then my brain returning to function sans meds, I feel I’m doing well, well besides the ptsd bit of course. But I do feel dumbed down mentally if I compare how I function now vs even 10 years ago.

Doctors have told me the older I get, the less the manic phase of my life will be gone. It could be that your ageing out of being to manic.

~Christina · Jul 07, 2019 at 01:24 PM

There is a difference of opinion on whether Bipolar becomes worse or easier to manage as we get older.

My Pdoc, T and I have talked at great length about this. The both agree that my Bipolar is getting worse not better and because my first signs started at age 6 I am more than likely to get worse more frequent episodes both Depressed, Manic and Mixed

What I have now as opposed to being diagnosed at age 43 is a huge tool box of coping and grounding skills. For me they are just as important for stability.

My decision to stop meds is due to a variety of reasons.

So as much as I wish it were true, No my Bipolar is not lessening as I age.

Ezrigirl · Jul 07, 2019 at 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~Christina

There is a difference of opinion on whether Bipolar becomes worse or easier to manage as we get older.

My Pdoc, T and I have talked at great length about this. The both agree that my Bipolar is getting worse not better and because my first signs started at age 6 I am more than likely to get worse more frequent episodes both Depressed, Manic and Mixed

What I have now as opposed to being diagnosed at age 43 is a huge tool box of coping and grounding skills. For me they are just as important for stability.

My decision to stop meds is due to a variety of reasons.

So as much as I wish it were true, No my Bipolar is not lessening as I age.

Me and my sisters started around 5. In fact, it is the only life I understand to be normal.

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