[Moose72]

Been thinking that my last manic episode- April/May this year- may have been started by my best friend dying on April 2nd. It was a couple weeks later that I started haviing noticable symptoms of mania. From there it just got worse until I contacted my team and was drugged into submission with Seroquel.

[Victoria'smom]

I've discovered I've been SH by slowly pulling at my hair for pain. At the same time I don't want to stop. So it means I have too. I have no idea when I started that.

[Wild Coyote]

Originally Posted by Moose72

Been thinking that my last manic episode- April/May this year- may have been started by my best friend dying on April 2nd. It was a couple weeks later that I started haviing noticable symptoms of mania. From there it just got worse until I contacted my team and was drugged into submission with Seroquel.

How are you doing now, Moose?

[Innerzone]

Fern, I have no words for what you experienced!! I can't even imagine, but I know if it were me, I would have had a MASSIVE freak out!!!! You have my deepest sympathy. When I read it at work, eating lunch (um, yeah, lol) I exclaimed loudly -- it was completely reflexive. Wow. Just wow.

Work today was productive. That was nice. Things went smoothly. Went to a small pop up market event after work and am now waiting for the bus. So hungry!

Hugs all around!!

[bizi]

Originally Posted by Wild Coyote

I am so groggy! Although I awoke a bit, now and then, in the night, I slept until 10 am, which I do not like. I know the theory that I will become less groggy as time goes on when I catch up on sleep; I don't agree with it. I have done that whole thing, hoping that theory was true. It isn't in my case. (I take other major meds for medical conditions and the Seroquel and other psych meds interact and cause more side-effects, especially grogginess.)

I saw Pdoc yesterday. She wants me to keep taking Seroquel at 100 mg, which may not seem like much to some others; yet, it is a lot for me, especially when taking a lot of other meds for physical conditions.

My nephew and his wife came to visit last night. We went to dinner. He said he came to tell me that he feels I did the right thing with my H and that I have his unwavering support. It was very nice to hear this and felt great to have his arms around me as he talked to me. He and I have always been very close. He is in this 30's now and he and I have always been very close. His wife is a gem. (He is the son of my closest brother, who is deceased. He is the spitting image of my brother, in every way. My brother would have rushed to my aid, to comfort me, if he was alive. my brother and I had talked to one another every single day, even the years we had lived in different states.)

I am very tired (groggy) today and I hope it clears up soon. It tends to clear up at about dinner time.
I hope everyone is having a good day!
Much Love ~

I am so sorry that you have been groggy.
(((((HUGS)))))))
bizi

[fern46]

Originally Posted by Innerzone

Fern, I have no words for what you experienced!! I can't even imagine, but I know if it were me, I would have had a MASSIVE freak out!!!! You have my deepest sympathy. When I read it at work, eating lunch (um, yeah, lol) I exclaimed loudly -- it was completely reflexive. Wow. Just wow.

Work today was productive. That was nice. Things went smoothly. Went to a small pop up market event after work and am now waiting for the bus. So hungry!

Hugs all around!!

I still feel violated. I had the realization that I drank almost an entire glass of the dead roach water before it went up my straw. I didn't think of that at first. I keep trying to figure out how it happened. I'm thinking maybe it was scooped into my cup with the ice. All I know is I will be bringing my own water with me everywhere I go now.

I'm glad you had a good day at work!

Had a gooooood night's sleep last night. Watched some Game of Thrones this morning at the parents' house before leaving to go back to my place.

I feel a lot calmer today than I felt a few days ago. However, I am still feeling a bit unsafe. Like, I'm not going to harm myself or anything. I'm not talking about that kind of "unsafe." Rather, I am talking about being stalked and watched. I feel the energy still. It has not abated.

I'm still debating on whether or not to set up an appt with my pdoc. My therapist asked me to do that, and knowing her... she probably already contacted him. So maybe it's best that I set it up myself. Yet he was the one who said to me, "I can't make you take anything you don't want to take." He said I don't have to take an AP if I don't want to! But then my therapist was indirectly threatening IP, so like... wtf am I supposed to do?! I don't even want to meet with my pdoc! I'm taking the sh_tty med anyways, so I don't see the point.

[fern46]

Originally Posted by bluebicycle

Had a gooooood night's sleep last night. Watched some Game of Thrones this morning at the parents' house before leaving to go back to my place.

I feel a lot calmer today than I felt a few days ago. However, I am still feeling a bit unsafe. Like, I'm not going to harm myself or anything. I'm not talking about that kind of "unsafe." Rather, I am talking about being stalked and watched. I feel the energy still. It has not abated.

I'm still debating on whether or not to set up an appt with my pdoc. My therapist asked me to do that, and knowing her... she probably already contacted him. So maybe it's best that I set it up myself. Yet he was the one who said to me, "I can't make you take anything you don't want to take." He said I don't have to take an AP if I don't want to! But then my therapist was indirectly threatening IP, so like... wtf am I supposed to do?! I don't even want to meet with my pdoc! I'm taking the sh_tty med anyways, so I don't see the point.

Have you ever researched how they used to treat schizophrenia and schizoaffective disorder prior to the creation of APs? I am not sure of the methods they used, but I do know the rates of recovery were higher. Most patients were able to rehabilitate and enter back into their daily lives after a period of time.

I wonder if any of those treatment options are still available for people who do not want to take APs. I think it is completely fair to refuse the meds as long as you can substitute them with something equally or more effective.

[Wild Coyote]

Originally Posted by Moose72

Been thinking that my last manic episode- April/May this year- may have been started by my best friend dying on April 2nd. It was a couple weeks later that I started haviing noticable symptoms of mania. From there it just got worse until I contacted my team and was drugged into submission with Seroquel.

I want to again extend my sympathies for the loss of your close friend.
Many life events can become destabilizing, unfortunately.
I am sorry you feel you were "drugged into submission." I am hoping you had some input into that decision.

How are you doing today?

[Victoria'smom]

I'm not as stressed today. I'm debating whether to call pdoc tomorrow or not because I'm handling life better these past two days. At the same time I don't want to be scared like that again. My head's still loud but I'm okay with that. Yes it still feels like someone's behind me but that's okay. The hair pulling I have to stop. 2 weeks doesn't seem to far away right now.

[Wild Coyote]

Originally Posted by fern46

Have you ever researched how they used to treat schizophrenia and schizoaffective disorder prior to the creation of APs? I am not sure of the methods they used, but I do know the rates of recovery were higher. Most patients were able to rehabilitate and enter back into their daily lives after a period of time.

I wonder if any of those treatment options are still available for people who do not want to take APs. I think it is completely fair to refuse the meds as long as you can substitute them with something equally or more effective.

Hi Fern,
I enjoy your contributions.
I am not aware of populations living with schizophrenia/schizoaffective disorders having had higher rates of recovery before the use of APs. I find this very interesting. It's encouraging. So many struggle with whether or not to take APs , as you know. I am very interested. Do you have a source where we might read about this perspective?
Thanks again!

Originally Posted by fern46

Have you ever researched how they used to treat schizophrenia and schizoaffective disorder prior to the creation of APs? I am not sure of the methods they used, but I do know the rates of recovery were higher. Most patients were able to rehabilitate and enter back into their daily lives after a period of time.

I wonder if any of those treatment options are still available for people who do not want to take APs. I think it is completely fair to refuse the meds as long as you can substitute them with something equally or more effective.

Like WC, I'd be interested in knowing about those methods as well.

I don't know what my diagnosis is. What's officially written down is "Bipolar 1 w/ mood-incongruent psychotic features, severe" (or something like that). My therapist thinks I don't have bipolar, but that I have a psychotic disorder w/ depression. Schizophrenia and Schizoaffective were ruled out, however, because I guess my thinking is "linear" according to the psychologist who tested me 1 year ago. So even though I have nearly every negative symptom listed in the criteria for Sz and SzA, my thinking is normal (I guess?). I don't know if the psychologist who assessed me was just a bad tester, though. My therapist thinks I should get yet another assessment, but that would become my (literally) 5th one since 2013. I mean, I know the tests were for different things (e.g., only testing for ADHD, only testing for Sz/SzA, etc.), but still...

[wildflowerchild25]

Had a lovely day yesterday! The weather is absolutely gorgeous. We went on a long hike yesterday and then to my grandparents house. RS looked at a rototiller my gma wants to get rid of. He said we will take it and he will till me out a garden next year. Fresh veggies! How exciting. Have t had a veggie garden in a long while. Haven’t had the motivation. But RS loves having a yard and being able to keep it up so I wouldn’t have to do as much work.

I was in severe pain when I went to sleep because of all the climbing on a very rocky trail. I thought I would be in worse pain this morning but nope! Same low level back pain I have every morning from my ****** mattress. My legs don’t even hurt! My feet are a bit tired but that’s ok. We have the windows open and a nice breeze coming in. It’s so nice to be able to open up the house and air it out a little bit. I love summer but a break in the heat is always appreciated.

I’m a little worried because I signed up for a class that’s supposed to start Tuesday but it’s not showing up in my class list yet. I though it was supposed to show up a week before so you could look at the syllabus and prepare. I registered late for it so I guess I have to go in and check to see if the registration was ever completed. I have to make sure I have 21 credits by the end of this semester in case my certification is called into question. I can reapply for a provisional as long as I have 21 credits.

Getting nervous about starting work. I want to see what kind of technology I have to work with, what kind of books, etcetera. At my old job I would buy a book and copy the pages so that I wouldn’t have to buy eight copies of the book. I’m just not sure what books I’m allowed to read. I’ll have to find out. I’m nervous that I won’t be able until I handle it but I’ve been mostly stable for a year and a half now so I hope I’ll be fine.

A couple of hospital dreams but now that I’m expecting them they aren’t bothering me as much. Last night I dreamed of pancakes lol so this morning I made RS go to ihop with my and my son for some pancakes and hash browns. Good breakfast!

[xRavenx]

Anxious about starting a new work week tomorrow. I do not feel like talking to others (in person) much., and my job requires me to be attentive. It is just so exhausting. Someone asked today why I'm quieter than usual. I'm not sure why I'm withdrawn, but probably because my mood is a little low. I feel like a failure at my job, and I'm just hanging on.

[xRavenx]

Originally Posted by Moose72

Been thinking that my last manic episode- April/May this year- may have been started by my best friend dying on April 2nd. It was a couple weeks later that I started haviing noticable symptoms of mania. From there it just got worse until I contacted my team and was drugged into submission with Seroquel.

(((Hugs))). So sorry to hear about your best friend. I also went manic after my best friend died a couple of years ago (and was given high dose Seroquel). It's hard how such tragic life events often trigger episodes in those of us with Bipolar.

[fern46]

Originally Posted by Wild Coyote

Hi Fern,
I enjoy your contributions.
I am not aware of populations living with schizophrenia/schizoaffective disorders having had higher rates of recovery before the use of APs. I find this very interesting. It's encouraging. So many struggle with whether or not to take APs , as you know. I am very interested. Do you have a source where we might read about this perspective?
Thanks again!

Hey, I haven't had a chance to follow up on the exact studies themselves, but several of them are referenced in a book I'm reading. Its called 'Anatomy of an Epidemic' by Robert Whitaker.

For example:
'The spectrum of outcomes for medicated versus unmedicated patients. Those on antipsychotics had a much lower recovery rate, and were much more likely to have a “uniformly poor” outcome. Source: Harrow, M. “Factors involved in outcome and recovery in schizophrenia patients not on antipsychotic medications.” The Journal of Nervous and Mental Disease, 195 (2007): 406–14.'

This comes along with the following numbers:
Outcomes on antipsychotics:
Poor: 49%
Fair: 46%
Recovered: 5%

Outcomes off antipsychotics:
Poor: 16%
Fair: 44%
Recovered: 40%

[fern46]

Originally Posted by bluebicycle

Like WC, I'd be interested in knowing about those methods as well.

I don't know what my diagnosis is. What's officially written down is "Bipolar 1 w/ mood-incongruent psychotic features, severe" (or something like that). My therapist thinks I don't have bipolar, but that I have a psychotic disorder w/ depression. Schizophrenia and Schizoaffective were ruled out, however, because I guess my thinking is "linear" according to the psychologist who tested me 1 year ago. So even though I have nearly every negative symptom listed in the criteria for Sz and SzA, my thinking is normal (I guess?). I don't know if the psychologist who assessed me was just a bad tester, though. My therapist thinks I should get yet another assessment, but that would become my (literally) 5th one since 2013. I mean, I know the tests were for different things (e.g., only testing for ADHD, only testing for Sz/SzA, etc.), but still...

I'm not sure what the methods were. I'm researching it at the moment. I've only seen research suggesting they had more positive long term outcomes prior to the invention of Thorazine.

There are also studies showing relapse rates are higher in patients who are initially treated with APs. Maurice Rappaport conducted one such study in the 70s.

Check out the book in my reply to WC. It blew my mind.

I will say this. I needed something urgently to help me when I was in psychosis. The drugs I was placed on snapped me out of the state I was in. I was a danger to myself and my family. I am in no way a denier that APs can be helpful and effective. However, I do think they are seen as a maintenance option when perhaps they could better serve as an accute therapy option. I also think sometimes a diagnosis leads doctors to assume the issues are chronic and need to be constantly medicated when other options could be pursued.

I'm not a doctor or a therapist. I'm just a geek who likes to research things from all angles.

[fern46]

Originally Posted by bluebicycle

Like WC, I'd be interested in knowing about those methods as well.

I don't know what my diagnosis is. What's officially written down is "Bipolar 1 w/ mood-incongruent psychotic features, severe" (or something like that). My therapist thinks I don't have bipolar, but that I have a psychotic disorder w/ depression. Schizophrenia and Schizoaffective were ruled out, however, because I guess my thinking is "linear" according to the psychologist who tested me 1 year ago. So even though I have nearly every negative symptom listed in the criteria for Sz and SzA, my thinking is normal (I guess?). I don't know if the psychologist who assessed me was just a bad tester, though. My therapist thinks I should get yet another assessment, but that would become my (literally) 5th one since 2013. I mean, I know the tests were for different things (e.g., only testing for ADHD, only testing for Sz/SzA, etc.), but still...

Oh and my diagnosis is up in the air too. You're not alone.
Another interesting bit from the book

'These poor results prompted two psychiatrists at Boston Psychopathic Hospital, J. Sanbourne Bockoven and Harry Solomon, to revisit the past. They had been at the hospital for decades, and in the period after World War II ended, when they treated psychotic patients with a progressive form of psychological care, they had seen the majority regularly improve. That led them to believe that “the majority of mental illnesses, especially the most severe, are largely self-limiting in nature if the patient is not subjected to a demeaning experience or loss of rights and liberties.” The antipsychotics, they reasoned, should speed up this natural healing process. But were the drugs improving long-term outcomes? In a retrospective study, they found that 45 percent of the patients treated in 1947 at their hospital hadn’t relapsed in the next five years and that 76 percent were successfully living in the community at the end of that follow-up period. In contrast, only 31 percent of the patients treated at the hospital in 1967 with neuroleptics remained relapse-free for five years, and as a group they were much more “socially dependent”—on welfare and needing other forms of support. “Rather unexpectedly, these data suggest that psychotropic drugs may not be indispensable,” Bockoven and Solomon wrote. “Their extended use in aftercare may prolong the social dependency of many discharged patients.”

[Wild Coyote]

Originally Posted by bluebicycle

Like WC, I'd be interested in knowing about those methods as well.

I don't know what my diagnosis is. What's officially written down is "Bipolar 1 w/ mood-incongruent psychotic features, severe" (or something like that). My therapist thinks I don't have bipolar, but that I have a psychotic disorder w/ depression. Schizophrenia and Schizoaffective were ruled out, however, because I guess my thinking is "linear" according to the psychologist who tested me 1 year ago. So even though I have nearly every negative symptom listed in the criteria for Sz and SzA, my thinking is normal (I guess?). I don't know if the psychologist who assessed me was just a bad tester, though. My therapist thinks I should get yet another assessment, but that would become my (literally) 5th one since 2013. I mean, I know the tests were for different things (e.g., only testing for ADHD, only testing for Sz/SzA, etc.), but still...

Diagnosing can be so very confusing. In the past, I have read about people having consistent diagnoses here in the U.S and when later examined by pdocs from England, many of the diagnoses changed.

It really does not matter what your diagnosis is, as long as treatment is helpful. You know this. It's almost ridiculous for me to write this. I suppose there is some degree of comfort in settling on a specific diagnosis.

[Wild Coyote]

Originally Posted by Wild Coyote

Diagnosing can be so very confusing. In the past, I have read about people having consistent diagnoses here in the U.S and when later examined by pdocs from England, many of the diagnoses changed.

It really does not matter what your diagnosis is, as long as treatment is helpful. You know this. It's almost ridiculous for me to write this. I suppose there is some degree of comfort in settling on a specific diagnosis.

Of course, the biggest need for a diagnosis, or diagnoses, is to use it in billing for reimbursement/payment by insurers.