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Default Oct 21, 2019 at 10:33 PM
  #21
This thread is immensely educational.

So a lot of talk about baseline and stability.


How do we know what our baseline is and how do we know what "stable" means - especially when medication is in the picture? When we say baseline do we mean what our baseline is when not on meds? Or can we have a baseline while on medication?

I hope someone can explain and clarify. I still have no idea what the two terms really mean.

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Default Oct 21, 2019 at 10:52 PM
  #22
When I refer to baseline it’s as my Pdoc believes.

“ To feel content with life” able to go about life taking care of responsibilities and also enjoying feeling good and able to enjoy activities of whatever level your comfortable with ( like I’ll never be okay in crowds )

Something that the majority of people who have Bipolar struggle with is how to recognize the difference between hypo happy and baseline happy

For me Hypo happy is fantastical , everything is sparkling, colors are brighter , food tastes amazing everything is just MORE .. of course it feels Amazing.

My baseline is ... things are good. I’m enjoying my life, I’m happy with what I have. I take care of my day to day responsibilities, I make plans for the future. Things to look forward too. I have a positive attitude.

Now if you compare Hypo feel versus baseline of course everyone would rather feel hypo all the time.

Hypo is like a drug. People get hooked on drugs to get high because it feels Amazing but it can’t last for long because there whole life starts to crumble.

So everyone in there own way has to come to there own realization what hypo is and how it looks in there life vs non hypo but enjoying life baseline.

For me .... I had to really look at the way my Bipolar would flow. Yes Hypo is great but what always always follows is dark ugly angry rage. So as much as hypo is appealing I work hard to reel myself back , step away from that flashing neon light calling me because I dooooo enjoy my stability, it’s not boring. I work hard to stay stable... I owe that to myself as much as for my loved ones. Hypo/manic episodes can be devastating to me but also anyone in my life.

I dunno maybe that doesn’t make sense to anyone but that’s how I’ve made sense of me to myself.

For me whether I am on meds or off is the same way thought process . I’m currently med free and doing very well Bipolar wise.

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Default Oct 21, 2019 at 11:08 PM
  #23
I agree with Christina. In addition I would say that while baseline refers to ‘being content with life’, stability refers to the duration of the baseline state. E.g. I am content with life and I have been so for 2.5 months. So I would say that I have been stable for 2.5 months.

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Default Oct 21, 2019 at 11:56 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Pookyl View Post
I agree with Christina. In addition I would say that while baseline refers to ‘being content with life’, stability refers to the duration of the baseline state. E.g. I am content with life and I have been so for 2.5 months. So I would say that I have been stable for 2.5 months.


Yes that !!!!!

Thank you because I just could not figure out how to put it into words/ type lol

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Default Oct 22, 2019 at 12:14 AM
  #25
I am sitting here with my eyes tearing up...no one has ever explained baseline and stable to me in a way that I truly understood the meanings of those words. Thank you, Christina and thank you Pookyl

I'm saving what both of you have written so I can refer to it. You know...it's such a confusing feeling when people keep telling me to recognize my baseline, then work hard to be stable. And those people are mental health professionals who I know mean well. They care. They want me to do what they're urging me to do for my own good.

And I sit there and I struggle to understand what on earth it is that they want me to do and I feel like I am working so hard, I'm working hard to be this word they keep telling me - but I have absolutely no clue as to what that word means, or how to grab it and hold onto it when I feel it!

Maybe it just takes others with bipolar disorder to explain the whole concept in a way I can understand. Christina, you explained the sensation of hypomania so perfectly it's delightfully excruciating for me to read! Exactly that, yes- you have given me a great gift with your explanation.

Thank you both, immensely!

Christina, how do you do this without meds? Is there a point at which you do use meds ( for example, when a particularly intense episode occurs), or do you make it through some other way?

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Default Oct 22, 2019 at 01:48 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by BethRags View Post
I am sitting here with my eyes tearing up...no one has ever explained baseline and stable to me in a way that I truly understood the meanings of those words. Thank you, Christina and thank you Pookyl

I'm saving what both of you have written so I can refer to it. You know...it's such a confusing feeling when people keep telling me to recognize my baseline, then work hard to be stable. And those people are mental health professionals who I know mean well. They care. They want me to do what they're urging me to do for my own good.

And I sit there and I struggle to understand what on earth it is that they want me to do and I feel like I am working so hard, I'm working hard to be this word they keep telling me - but I have absolutely no clue as to what that word means, or how to grab it and hold onto it when I feel it!

Maybe it just takes others with bipolar disorder to explain the whole concept in a way I can understand. Christina, you explained the sensation of hypomania so perfectly it's delightfully excruciating for me to read! Exactly that, yes- you have given me a great gift with your explanation.

Thank you both, immensely!

Christina, how do you do this without meds? Is there a point at which you do use meds ( for example, when a particularly intense episode occurs), or do you make it through some other way?


I’m glad my explanation has helped and so grateful Pookyl came along and helped explain what I simply couldn’t get into words.

How do I manage med free. Well it’s complicated.

In the past I was Med free for 18 months. I did really well, I had a lot of white knuckle moments. But I had a huge tool box of coping skills and knew how to use them , many lifestyle changes. But eventually I started to crumble so back on meds I went.

This last February or March I had seen my GP we sat and went over my meds between psych and physical was on like 14-15 meds a day !! So I felt the need to just detox off as many meds as I could. I still need my Asthma meds, PsA and Fibro, cholesterol stuff but I felt driven to do whatever I could.

I’ve had some really tough situational stuff happen this year but somehow I have muddled along ... not easy sometimes but I have.

Will I need to go back on meds again? Oh I’m sure. What will be my tipping point ? If I fall into a nasty angry manic hell, depression or become suicidal.

I deal with a ridiculous amount of chronic pain which of course effect my moods and stability. I have had a week or two here and there where I start thinking well ...,, maybe it’s time ..... but I find my balance again.

If my husband were to say ... okay I think it’s time for meds again I would listen to him. Numerous close friends from here on PC agreed to quickly point out if they see something I don’t.

I am NOT anti Med. Although I bloody hate Big Pharma.

I think everyone needs to be very proactive about what meds they will take, what side effects will be tolerated. I personally won’t take those meds that are big weight gainers , my ED will come back with a vengeance and I was about a week away from a feeding tube last go around. Recovery from that took almost a year.

There is hundreds of Med cocktails that can be tried.

Meds or no meds managing your life when you have Bipolar is a balancing act. Right now ? Its a circus .... I have all my plates in the air spinning and none are wobbling so I’m good for now.

Next week ??? Everything could change....

I find so many people think that medication X is going to “ fix everything” Bipolar has to be addressed from all sides, sure meds, sleep hygiene, healthy diet, exercise, mindfulness , making sure physically everything is ok.. Thyroid and Hormones can be a huge problem yet can easily be overlooked etc etc

This is what I think Pdoc’s and T’s need to stress... major lifestyle changes have to be made to find the best baseline stability possible.

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Default Oct 22, 2019 at 06:16 AM
  #27
Wow, this thread has gone into an interesting new (but not unrelated) direction! Not that it wasn't already an interesting topic. Thanks, BethRags for bringing up baseline vs. stability.

Thanks, Christina and Pookyl for your responses to BethRags. Christina, I, too, totally know how crucial it is to stop hypomania in its tracks. Full blown mania is scary for me. I also experience some major price for elevated moods that go too far. I have found that long-term stability is so much better for me in most all ways. I didn't truly learn that until I realized what it was after far too many years. In my youth, I lived for and expected mood elevation thinking THAT should be my baseline. I was Teflon back then to any of its negatives. I do still "let the past stay in the past" to a large degree, but at least have full clarity about it now, unlike then. I see no use in beating myself up (other than maybe a couple explanatory apologies) but it is my responsibility to prevent such behavior now that I understand it. No mania worship from me, now.

My baseline (stable time) is still generally hyperthymic-like. That's OK in my book, but I do figure out, at least eventually or with help, when my mood goes even higher (insight). It also makes any lower moods even more apparent, though I did go through a phase once when I tried to deny any mild episodes (up or down). That was during/after a very long period of mood disturbance. I just wanted to be well already, so I convinced myself I was even when I wasn't 100%. Another form of episode denial.

Last edited by Anonymous46341; Oct 22, 2019 at 07:19 AM..
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Default Oct 22, 2019 at 07:55 AM
  #28
I am blown away by the insight and information in this thread.

Thank you, Christina, for sharing your experiences. I admire you - clearly you have your shite together...due to your fortitude. Chronic pain definitely makes working with one's mental health so challenging...and with living life, in general. I'm headed to physical therapy today for some chronic pain issues (I strongly believe that I have fibro).

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Default Oct 22, 2019 at 10:54 AM
  #29
Very interesting conversation, guys and gals. I tried to go without meds. I was theoretically questioning my diagnosis. I made it less than a year before I had a huge recurrence and was begging for my medication again. I am apparently one of those people who just can't really go med-free. Oh well. It's fine. I don't really mind taking them. If it keeps me from having to go through that hell, I'm happy to do it.

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Default Oct 22, 2019 at 12:59 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by BirdDancer View Post
Wow, this thread has gone into an interesting new (but not unrelated) direction! Not that it wasn't already an interesting topic. Thanks, BethRags for bringing up baseline vs. stability.


Thanks, Christina and Pookyl for your responses to BethRags. Christina, I, too, totally know how crucial it is to stop hypomania in its tracks. Full blown mania is scary for me. I also experience some major price for elevated moods that go too far. I have found that long-term stability is so much better for me in most all ways. I didn't truly learn that until I realized what it was after far too many years. In my youth, I lived for and expected mood elevation thinking THAT should be my baseline. I was Teflon back then to any of its negatives. I do still "let the past stay in the past" to a large degree, but at least have full clarity about it now, unlike then. I see no use in beating myself up (other than maybe a couple explanatory apologies) but it is my responsibility to prevent such behavior now that I understand it. No mania worship from me, now.


My baseline (stable time) is still generally hyperthymic-like. That's OK in my book, but I do figure out, at least eventually or with help, when my mood goes even higher (insight). It also makes any lower moods even more apparent, though I did go through a phase once when I tried to deny any mild episodes (up or down). That was during/after a very long period of mood disturbance. I just wanted to be well already, so I convinced myself I was even when I wasn't 100%. Another form of episode denial.


Yes ! Your self aware and have decided to be very proactive and catch things as soon as things start to tilt. It’s really a huge accomplishment to fully understand how Bipolar can fit into your life and not feel like your life is less than. Yes denial can cause so much more destruction.

Edit : Yes I’m sorry I did steer this off main topic , sorry about that OP I just think so many things are necessary to find a good balance living with BP.

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Last edited by ~Christina; Oct 22, 2019 at 01:14 PM..
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Default Oct 22, 2019 at 01:07 PM
  #31
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Very interesting conversation, guys and gals. I tried to go without meds. I was theoretically questioning my diagnosis. I made it less than a year before I had a huge recurrence and was begging for my medication again. I am apparently one of those people who just can't really go med-free. Oh well. It's fine. I don't really mind taking them. If it keeps me from having to go through that hell, I'm happy to do it.


I think at some point I will just need meds full time with no detox/ vaca’s from them and I’ll be okay about it when that day comes.

Currently I have an appt the end of the month I have a angry liver and we need to determine if any of my meds are causing it and how I can get better.. so I’m sure any meds from here out will need to be “ liver” friendly.

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Default Oct 22, 2019 at 03:15 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by bpcyclist View Post
Very interesting conversation, guys and gals. I tried to go without meds. I was theoretically questioning my diagnosis. I made it less than a year before I had a huge recurrence and was begging for my medication again. I am apparently one of those people who just can't really go med-free. Oh well. It's fine. I don't really mind taking them. If it keeps me from having to go through that hell, I'm happy to do it.

I so wish I could go med-free. The weight gain is the problem for me, both self-esteem and (even more) the resulting health issues (high blood pressure, etc., etc.). I've tried even just dropping way down to "baby doses." Well, that failed BIG time. So. Here I am.

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Default Oct 22, 2019 at 04:39 PM
  #33
I've had 4+ years of stability on my current cocktail and don't want to jeopardize that even tho I also want a break. I know if I quit the AP I'll lose weight and be able to quit the cloister all meds too. But at 60 I hang on to stability and relish the sameness of the days in a way that I didn't when I was younger. What Christina wrote about the hypos was so right on for me, it was a drug that I loved and I was willing to risk the destruction for a couple weeks of glorious color. My baseline is slightly depressed but tolerable.

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Default Oct 22, 2019 at 07:56 PM
  #34
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I've had 4+ years of stability on my current cocktail and don't want to jeopardize that even tho I also want a break. I know if I quit the AP I'll lose weight and be able to quit the cloister all meds too. But at 60 I hang on to stability and relish the sameness of the days in a way that I didn't when I was younger. What Christina wrote about the hypos was so right on for me, it was a drug that I loved and I was willing to risk the destruction for a couple weeks of glorious color. My baseline is slightly depressed but tolerable.

Yes...I am right there with you on your entire post, including about what Christina said. I was quite literally crying...the first time I've ever known anyone else who had tha exact experience of hypomania/mania.

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