Is rapid cycle common for all types of bipolar?

I've been diagnosed with BP 1 since 2010.. BUT I'll have ups and downs in moods throughout the day. It's not everyday but I've noticed it over the past couple days I feel really down, depressed, lonely, bored and then something will suddenly peak my interest and my mood flips and ideas start flooding my mind. I suddenly have a burst of energy. Is this rapid cycling? Do people without bipolar get these shifts in moods suddenly too? Is this quote-unquote normal for everybody no matter if they suffer from mental health?

I think non-bipolars have various moods throughout each day, but the moods are within a certain range. They remain within limited boundaries, whereas we go way up, way down, way out there.

I'm not sure, but that's the first thought that comes to mind.

Not every mood
Change is bipolar

This is an explanation:

Is it a bipolar mixed episode, ultra rapid cycling, or just “mood lability”? – Bird Flight

The charts on Dr. Phelps' website are particularly interesting.

I would agree with BirdDancers article. I rapid cycle as per the definition of 4 or more clear episodes per year. I don’t rapid cycle over a day but I do experience periods of very low and very high energy levels in a 24hr period.

I went about a rolling 18 months worth of “ true definition” of rapid cycling. It really to me was more a medication issue, some meds didn’t help or made matters worse, some the side effects were not tolerable. It took a long time finding a good balance back then.

My mood can vary through out a day , some because I have lots of chronic pain ... or just because I might be bored and just unmotivated and it have nothing to do with Bipolar.

We can all experience a full range of emotions and it not have a single thing to do with Bipolar.

Yeah, I agree with @HALLIEBETH87 and @~Christina in that not every mood change is due to bipolar.

I think it's important to be able to distinguish emotion from mood because they are very similar in a lot of ways, but still distinct. It is perfectly normal for anybody (i.e., neurotypicals and people with ANY mental illness) to have emotional changes throughout the day, but for people with bipolar specifically, emotions are influenced by environmental changes and/or existing mood only, while moods are due to chemical (and, rarely, environmental) changes.

It is possible you're experiencing genuine mood swings, though, so I'm not dismissing your concerns at all. In fact, I think you should set up an appt with your psychiatrist, GP, or nurse practitioner (or whoever you see) to talk about your moods to see if you're having mood swings or just emotional disturbances. However, I know firsthand that sometimes meds can cause mood swings of any duration, or even exacerbate existing ones. I know when I've been non-compliant, my moods genuinely changed every couple of hours where I'd have suicidal thoughts and come up with plans, then 2 hrs later have grandiose delusions about how amazing I was and how I was "destined" to do XYZ. So, it was NOT emotional. But that was because I'd take my meds like every few days or at completely different times fo the day (e.g., 8am on Monday, none on Tuesday, and maybe 4pm on Wednesday, then 4am on Thursday, etc. etc.).

It is extremely rare for people to have ultradian cycling on their own (i.e., without med or med compliance issues). But again, talk with your dr to come up with a solution so that you don't have to continue to experience this.

I have rapid cycling. Every dr since I was first dxd has told me so. But I can have several emotions throughout the day and not be cycling in moods.

Good point about distinguishing mood from emotion. I've never thought of that before.

I have a few different emotions in a day, but my moods are much less changeable and tend to last for a period of time...a week, weeks, or months.

Thanks, bluebicycle...you've posted something so important - no psych professional has ever explained that to me & it is significant.

I’ve rapid-cycled in a period of a single day, every day for a period of time. Usually, any medication change causes me to rapid-cycle. However, when the medication isn’t working well for me it causes me to rapid-cycle more frequently and longer. It’s miserable. If you feel you maybe rapid cycling I’d definitely talk to a mental health professional about it soon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BirdDancer This is an explanation: Is it a bipolar mixed episode, ultra rapid cycling, or just “mood lability”? – Bird Flight The charts on Dr. Phelps' website are particularly interesting.

Thanks for the article, Birdy. Very
intriguing information. Dr. Phelps makes excellent points, and they make sense to me - for sure.

Not every mood change is bipolar disorder. Read the DSM V for the classic definition of what rapid cycling means. Mislabeling yourself is not helpful for treatment. Everyone goes through mood changes during a day. It doesn't mean those changes are clinical.

Isn't ultraradian cycling a thing though? My understanding of it is that moods can shift multiple times within a day in these cases. I am not sure it is recognized in the DSM, but I've heard the term several times.

I think it involves more than a minor shift. It is more of a cycle of drastic swings within a short period of time.

Hi fern. I never owned the DSM-IV or earlier versions, but I do own the DSM 5. "Ultradian cycling" is not written there unless I have really overlooked it. What is mentioned is "with rapid cycling", as a specifier. It's my assumption that when that specifier is used, it likely refers to any form of rapid cycling meaning "four or more episodes in a year". There is certainly confusion in that the DSM 5 only labels a mood episode as one meeting certain time and symptom criteria. I am not 100% sure of this, but if one had significant mood shifts (as you mentioned) and they were present for days in a row and included sufficient symptoms, then maybe that could qualify as an episode????? If so, then it would clearly be up to the psychiatrist how to label it (what type of episode and specifier).

I do believe that people with bipolar disorder have mood lability not necessarily qualifying as any episode. That's known in many circles. As for anyone having mood shifts during the day that aren't "bipolar-related", sure. Fern's point is definitely valid. Regular folks don't usually feel fatigued and suicidal in the morning and elated and ultra high energy in the afternoon for no really major reason. How do us folks with bipolar disorder really know where the limits are unless we've truly learned what stability is. I think I know what regular "non bipolar" mood shifts are. I think Fern does, too. I also know what I regard as "mood lability" that is still outside the norm. This term also apples to the major drastic shifts that people with borderline personality disorder experience, but they don't own the term exclusively. That disorder has almost mandatory dx criteria that most people with bipolar disorder never meet.

For anyone interested in this topic, Dr. Phelps goes into it well. For those who want to read it but bypass my blog post, find the relevant page on Dr. Phelps' site at
Rapid Cycling And Mixed States As "Waves" - PsychEducation

Good stuff as always BirdDancer! I found this... It references ultra rapid cycling and ultraradian cycling. My guess is it ia a term we now have to describe something that has been observed clinically, but yet to be officially diagnosed.

Ultra-rapid and ultradian cycling in bipolar affective illness. - PubMed - NCBI

Edited to add... I just read your article. It seems in line with what I was thinking. It shows ultraradians cycling as cycling within days or hours.

Thanks for sharing that, fern!

I think a lot of doctors continue to use the terms "ultra rapid" and "ultradian" cycling, despite the DSM 5. I think for good reason. I have read about doubters, though. Or "purests". Before the DSM 5, officially (according to the DSM-IV) people with bipolar type 2 never experienced mixed episodes/states, but that was so wrong! I know many psychiatrists knew that was wrong, thus its inclusion in the DSM 5 (and the formation of "specifiers"). Obviously the DSM 5 is not perfect and will change. I've read of many psychiatrists who were on the committee for the DSM 5 so angry that they left it because of various objections and dissatisfaction. One example of a major point of contention relates to bipolar disorder dxs in children. Of course that's a whole other major subject.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheltiemom2007 Not every mood change is bipolar disorder. Read the DSM V for the classic definition of what rapid cycling means. Mislabeling yourself is not helpful for treatment. Everyone goes through mood changes during a day. It doesn't mean those changes are clinical.

Take a look at the article BirdDancer posted (link). It addresses exactly what you've posted. The classic definition is being questioned by many professionals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BirdDancer ....I do believe that people with bipolar disorder have mood lability not necessarily qualifying as any episode. That's known in many circles. As for anyone having mood shifts during the day that aren't "bipolar-related", sure. Fern's point is definitely valid. Regular folks don't usually feel fatigued and suicidal in the morning and elated and ultra high energy in the afternoon for no really major reason. How do us folks with bipolar disorder really know where the limits are unless we've truly learned what stability is. I think I know what regular "non bipolar" mood shifts are. I think Fern does, too. I also know what I regard as "mood lability" that is still outside the norm. This term also apples to the major drastic shifts that people with borderline personality disorder experience, but they don't own the term exclusively. That disorder has almost mandatory dx criteria that most people with bipolar disorder never meet.

Oh, my gosh! What you have written describes all of it so perfectly. The part I bolded...I find that so helpful. Thank you

I've been going through it even though at first I was sceptical about the common will give you throw in a way around word cycling, but it's been like 5 weeks now come on then lol

One last bit I’ll add ...

People often confuse rapid cycling with just being unstable.

Until you find stability and “ your particular baseline” there’s no way to determine if your having rapid cycling or just struggling to GET TO a baseline.

Often I have days where I’m all over the place mentally, maybe some is Bipolar ? and some is just normal reactions to life around me.

I honestly don’t worry much about my mood wobbling around unless it’s at least 5/6 days in a row.

Today I’m having moods all over the place and it has zero to do with Bipolar.