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*Beth*
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Default Dec 09, 2019 at 03:11 PM
  #21
I have not read this entire thread because I have to get ready to go to a T appt. What Andrea Yates did is as horrifying as any event in life can be. Obviously, there are no words to precisely describe the egregious action she took.

Do I believe that someone can be in a psychotic state as extreme as she was in? Yes, I do believe it. I suspect that paranoid behavior to such an extreme is extremely rare, but I understand how a person might become unable to resist acting on extreme, severe, intractable terror.

I feel anxious all over my body when I think about what that woman did. I cannot, however, point a finger of doubt at her anymore than I would want someone to doubt my own mental illness.

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Default Dec 09, 2019 at 04:31 PM
  #22
My state started the first Psychiatric Security Review Board in America in the late 70s. There are now three, one here, one in AZ, and one in CT. The PSRB's job is to supervise all Oregonians who have asserted the insanity defense and who are not currently residents of the Oregon State Hospital. Currently, that is around 700 people or so. It's way too long a story to tell here, but basically, the system works like this. A person's Guilty Except For Insanity pleading is accepted by the court (too much to go into here). They then either go straight to OSH for some period of time or, they go to some kind of housing (as determined by the PSRB) and are immediately put under the supervision of the board. A murder GEI conviction would go to the hospital and, say, a first-time offender Burglary II conviction might go to a supported housing setting, as they were deemed appropriate for by the board. Every case is different.

Sentences for these cases are whatever the MAXIMUM would have been had the person been simply found guilty. This results in mentally ill Oregonians serving roughly twice the time their non-mentally ill counterparts who merely plead or are found guilty do. I believe this is unconstitutional, since it sentences mentally ill persons disproportionately higher than non-mentally ill persons for the exact same offense, but noone has yet sued over it. Because of this sentencing disparity, a good number of people have elected to plead guilty rather than GEI, putting yet another profoundly mentally ill person at the mercy of the prison system.

Discharges from the hospital are pretty much entirely up to the treatment team. The PSRB itself ultimately writes the discharge order, but the doctors really are the ones making the call. If someone isn't totally ready to leave, they ain't leavin'.

Once out of the hospital, most patients go to either a residential treatment facility (RTF, for nonviolent offenders) or a secure residential treatment facility (SRTF) for violent offenders. Either way, the patient then works his or her way through successively lower levels of care until ultimately, they may be allowed to live independently. This can take years and years.

Patients living in the community and under board supervision are without question the most highly monitored person in our state. Being on any kind of post-prison supervision is a walk through the rose garden compared to what is required of PSRB supervisees. Weekly therapy and shrink appts. Severe restrictions on travel. Sometimes daily group attendance for awhile after discharge. Strict med compliance. Obviously, no drugs or alcohol. It is an almost overwhelming burden for some. Noncompliance with any part of the regimen may be a swift kick in the pants and a return to the hospital.

For years, the PSRB has justified its onerous approach by claiming its recidivism rate was less than 2%. And that was true, for those still under its supervision. However, ProPublica recently conducted its own investigation of the PSRB and they found that, once discharged from the board, that recidivism rate is actually 35% (compared to just over 50% for people coming out of prison). This, plus a recent tragedy involving someone discharged from the PSRB have put a lot of heat on the legislature and the board and there is now talk of modifying the statutes so that a GEI pleading would require lifetime PSRB supervision. If that happens, I expect both the ACLU and Disability Rights Oregon to sue. But we shall see.

Anyhow, this is how our supposedly super-progressive state does it. Seems to me it's not all that progressive. But what do I know.

I am currently finishing writing a book about the PSRB. It should be done sometime after the first of the year. Now, I just need to find an agent...

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Default Dec 11, 2019 at 03:46 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by sheltiemom2007 View Post
I don't care what someone's diagnosis is. There is no excuse that justifies murdering another human being, especially your own children. I had post partum psychosis. I've been the victim of severe childhood trauma by a schizophrenic parent. There is no excuse for that was done to me and no excuse if I had, heaven forbid, hurt my own child. Just because you are mentally ill doesn't mean you suddenly have no moral compass. If you want to know where stigma comes from, it comes from situations like this. There should be only two options, not guilty (because there isn't enough evidence), or guilty but mentally ill. If you are found guilty but mentally ill, institutionalize the person for the duration of a criminal sentence. If they improve, send them to jail.
IMO This reply is rather simplistic, but for the most part, I agree with it. However, there is the case of harming another person without actually meaning to. Lets take a schizophrenic. If you get too close to them, they may feel threatened (paranoid). So they may lash out at you, with no mindful attempt at hurting you. At least this is what I was told, and it makes sense to me. Take the example in that movie called something like "A Beautiful Mind".. The baby was placed in the tub with water, and almost drowned. I do not think this was his intention. Psychosis can be a "funny" thing, but not the "ha ha" amusing funny.

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FWIW

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Default Dec 11, 2019 at 07:56 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Tucson View Post
.....

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FWIW

That's usually what happens in such cases. Sometimes the mother is so far into psychosis that she actually believes she's saving her child by taking extreme action.

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Default Dec 11, 2019 at 08:08 PM
  #25
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That's usually what happens in such cases. Sometimes the mother is so far into psychosis that she actually believes she's saving her child by taking extreme action.
Exactly that. I have lived it.
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Default Dec 11, 2019 at 09:49 PM
  #26
I remember when that story came out. My sister was post partum and I was pregnant. Our OB/gyn had a talk with both of us about the case. This was before I was diagnosed BP. I did have pp psychosis after that birth but it was more like intrusive thoughts. My pdoc at te time just diagnosed me with post partum depression.

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Default Dec 11, 2019 at 10:22 PM
  #27
here, where I live...

NGRI usually= state hospital, then a long time, possibly a lifetime, of state-sponsored psychiatric control, 'treatment,' and surveillance. it used to be that NGRI convictions could be sealed, but no longer. I guess its 'therapeutic' to have a permanent "insane in the membrane' stain on the rap sheet? I don't know...

when the state decided to save money and sell off most of the old hospital (prime real estate...the state netted a cool $150 million in the deal...), there were cases of people who wanted to be treated in the community, but the psychiatrists at the hospital had put additional labels--'antisocial personality disorder' was one, I remember--on them and deemed them a 'threat to society' and such...so they were expected to stay in the loony bin, indefinitely. ugh.

i don't know why all the social and legal aspects of psychiatry fascinate me so much, but...its scary. there was one case, a dude petitioned to get out of one of the branches of the state hospital system (not the NGRI branch), and then he -died- ... after being tackled by multiple, poorly trained employees at the hospital. oops. sorry 'bout that. i mean...that could have been me, could be me, if it wasn't for some social factors in my favor. -shudder-

and...im done. :-)
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