No symptoms

Hey guys,

What if your diagnosed as having Bipolar. Yet now you are symptom free. I mean not naturally but by stopping the meds. I told a professional this and I think she dubious. She had previously asked if I was still on my meds as I had a higher score than I did in Nov re a worksheet. I've been off my meds since Nov and I'm not any different and I genuinely mean this. No psychosis, no hypo mania, no mania, no racing thoughts, no speed talking, no fidgeting. Nothing at all. Family, friends and professionals haven't noticed. I'm not kidding I told my worker I saw that I believe I don't have this and said maybe I'm just a moody cow lol.

Any thoughts?

I'm glad you're feeling well, Miss Laura.

Are you questioning if you ever had bipolar disorder in the first place? A lot of people do/have. Some maybe didn't and some found out over time that they definitely had and still have the disorder, and always will.

Bipolar disorder is not like the flu. When symptoms go away, it's not gone. It's more like genital herpes in that it can seem dormant, but then shows up again when triggered in some way. It hides. It lurks. It pounces out of nowhere, sometimes. It can come like a tidal wave and overtake.

I've issued a warning a few times to some who quit medications. I do so by telling the story of my youngest nephew. He quit medications once (on his own, stopping regular visits to a pdoc/tdoc) and after doing so experienced a "honeymoon period". He felt much better than in years. He lost 50 lbs, and started a job. Marvelous! But then an avalanche of depression hit him, and there was not enough time to save him. The same can happen with mania.

Of course if a person never had bipolar disorder in the first place, then the risks of relapse may be low to nill. Or if a person at least checks in with a pdoc/tdoc from time to time, maybe emergency intervention may come in time.

I am 99.9% sure I do have bipolar disorder. My choice is to not quit meds, but strive to take the least amount possible to keep my beast in check. I feel having some meds in place is safer than none.

Bipolar cycles are long...I was fine for nine months of meds then little bits of psychosis came back and I restarted meds. It’s my understanding that it takes at least a year to know for sure ...

Thanks guys,

When I was diagnosed 10 years ago I feel it was the right choice (eventually).... I mean I finally had a name to what was going on. I was on antidepressants (Prozac first then Mirtazipine and finally Citalopram) from Oct 2009-Oct 2010. The GP's and Psychiatrist told me I couldn't take any more antidepressants as they made me severely manic. So once I was diagnosed with Bipolar type 1 it was a mood stabilizer and an anti psychotic. I'm what my team call a non compliant of meds. I really struggle taking them. I managed 188 days on my meds before I stopped in Nov that was roughly mid May until mid Nov. That's a record for me if I'm honest.

I've always questioned whether i have it or not. Sure i can be super manic and hyper and act a little crazy but aren't we all to a point.

I'm still keeping my appointments weekly since I stopped my meds I've seen my CPN (Community Psychiatric Nurse) twice, my Community Worker 6 times, my Therapist 7 times and my Peer Worker twice. I let it slip to my therapist a week ago I was off my meds.

No-one can tell. I'm completely the same. I know I'm a very good Actress. I think people just see me or don't even pay attention to me. I mean sometimes people act like they know me but they don't.

If I truly had Bipolar would I not be affected? Would people not notice? Would things not be in a mess? Maybe I never had this and it was the closest thing to a diagnosis the Psychiatrist could give me? Maybe it was all in other people's heads?

If I don't succumb to mania or depression or psychosis then to me I'm free.... I can go live a proper life. I was hoping to have a job but on Thursday when I saw my Peer Worker she said I wasn't quite ready for work. I don't want to volunteer anymore. I do enough of it. But that's what I am to do. Pick up more volunteering grr!!!

Laura, you were reporting horrible episodes of depression just maybe 2-3 months ago.

I’ve watch you struggle for numerous years on here now, and usually you don’t remember them, which happens to many people with Bipolar , it’s just your brain protecting you I feel.

I know you don’t want to have Bipolar but I know you have been diagnosed for many years now and you self admit you just wont stay Med compliant.

Yes people with no mental health illness have moods up and down but not to the extremes we do.

I hope one day you can accept that you do have an illness that medications can ease symptoms at least.

It is totally, completely possible that your diagnosis was in error. Bipolar diagnosis, how it's done, how it should be done, who should do it, etc., has become a topic of huge and hotly contested debate in recent years. I don't know what meds you were taking exactly, but several years ago, I reviewed every paper ever published on the topic of discontinuing mood stabilizers in bipolar disorder. What every single one of those studies show is very clear. If you have bipolar disorder and you discontinue your mood stabilizer(s) over a period of less than 3 weeks, your risk of a big recurrence at/by 12 months is about 96% or so. Even if you have been completely stable for a period of at least 5 years and then discontinue your mood stabilizer, the risk of recurrence is about 90%--about half within the first 10 months.

So, to me, the take-home here is, if you have it, you probably won't be able to do well long-term off mood stabilizers. Some people do it, some on this forum do it very successfully, and that is awesome. But the studies suggest they are in the minority.

Now, someone might say, she got manic on an antidepressant--she definitely has it!! But not so fast, because some of the people treated with antidepressants who get mania on them are just misdiagnosed bipolar people--they always had it, they just hadn't gotten manic yet. But some of them also are probably just drug-induced mania and they don't have it. How many of these are there? No one has a clue. The biggest study was done in London (21,000 patients) and what it shows is that people treated for unipolar depression with SSRIs or Effexor, have a very, very low rate of becoming manic or developing other signs or symptoms of bipolar disorder. That does not mean those meds cause it. In my opinion, I think most of those people likely had it all along--but that is just my opinion and there are zero studies on it.

So, there you go. A little trip around the stopping-your-mood-stabilizer-in-bipolar literature. I think it is awesome that you are staying in touch with all your providers. That's great.
I did stop all my meds, btw. Did it pretty much as recommended. But still had a big recurrence 11 months later. I was great until then. Then, bam! That's how I know I have it. I tried. I did. But I just can't do it. I really hope you can.

Right, say I do have this illness what now? I mean for the love of god I can't stay med compliant I've tried everything (reminders on my phone, a tick point system for rewarding my good behaviour, pills are in pill boxes with the days on them, people reminding me, sitting them next to where I sleep so I see them first thing in the morning and last thing at night, double and triple reminders and also downloaded apps for my phone which literally is installing in you to take the damn things I have 8 apps like this. Plus I do a mood diary in my notes on my phone which states meds took.)

We thought about a single med ie a depot injection but I could only get it for Aririprazole I take 20mg once a day. They thought that would be pointless. I also take Propanol 40mg daily and Depakote 500mg twice a day.

I am just stumped that no-one knows that I am off the meds. I mean I must be showing signs right?

Yeah I'm still able to do things like keep appointments. But my motivation which I was hoping to have back is still non-existent. I'm not kidding you my flat is so messy to the point of it is going to take me a month of Sundays to just clean it. I have no food what so ever in my flat bare cupboards and fridge.

Yes I had sever depression Sept-Nov suicidal etc. Worst I have felt in 7 years. I do not get like that and it took a lot out of me

I dont think you have to "show" signs to others or professionals to have bipolar or bipolar episodes, especially since you say you are a good actress. IME SSRI's are not so good for bipolar. I take an SNRI and a mood stabilizer and antipsychotic and have been stable for many years. In fact the years where I was not stable were the years I was trying out SSRI's....

I “ think” you actually told her last visit. You have told them many many times in the past so they are probably fully aware.

Here in the US unless your a danger to yourself or others your pretty much left alone. But there’s many cases of people with a mental illness that are court ordered to take meds usually because they commit a crime or something., yes usually it’s a monthly shot and add on Med can be one that you need routine blood work to Check if levels are in an okay range like Lithium etc

As for being Med compliant ? Until you truly accept you need meds to stay stable and enjoy your life , able to maintain friendships etc like billions of other people on this spinning rock... No amount of alarms or apps or reminders of any sorts will do a single thing.

You choose to be non compliant.

10 years ago I was compliant and then about a year later I had stopped my meds I was apparently delusional (believed they had been micro chipped and I swallowed them therefore I was carrying special information in me that the police wanted/needed) as soon as I told my old CPN I had stopped my meds because this happened he told me it was a delusion. I had I don't think ever had a delusion prior to this.

So I'll say the last 9 years have been non compliant. I'll be taling them and the least little thing ie forgetting them will throw me out of sync and I struggle to keep taking them. If I have an unplanned night at someone's house obviously I don't have my clothes let alone my meds so that throws me too. Its here I can't get back into a routine with them.

I've tried carrying my meds in my bag but I get anxious about that for some reason. I kinda feel paranoid like if the police was to do a random stop and search they will find them and I'll be put in prison (stupid I know)

I don't really want to tell people irl that I'm off my meds as they will be mad at me. They will get me into trouble.... even though I'm an adult and it's my choice my own personal choice if i go off them.

Maybe I could be the except in the rule and I'll be ok without them?

Take care.

I know how hard it is to take meds, they cause a lot of side effects and even those that cause little of them It can be really hard to take them everyday

I think the most important rigth now it is to be careful and take care of yourself. Eat healthy, excersise, meditate, sleep every nigth enough, ... And maybe set some rules (like, as an example of what I do, before spending more than 20€ on a new idea, I wait at least 2 weeks and ask someone about it to be 100% it is not a crazy impulssive idea I will later regret).

As an adult, it is your decision to take or not to take meds, and who to tell about it. It can have bad consequences, anyway ...

Stay safe ♥️

Crazy, inside and aside

"Outwardly: dumbly, I shamble about, a thing that could never have been known as human, a
thing whose shape is so alien a travesty that humanity becomes more obscene for the vague resemblance."
I have no mouth and I must scream -Harlan Ellison-

I'm often non-compliant. I've been faithfully on meds since July. Desolvable and small meds have been the key for me.I'm often a great actress and it bites me in the ***. I've been unwell for a long time There's a little key ring med holder you may want to get that and put a days worth of medication in there. Then in your wallet carry a card that says your BP and the meds you are currently on.

I'm having no symptoms at all like spending sprees, over spending on Amazon etc I'm really good and I'm surprised that I have no symptoms. If anything I'm more cautious on what I spend.

I wrote a note in my phone on the 15th it reads " Ok I haven't been on my meds since mid Nov 2019 and I feel amazing. I mean yeah sure I had side effects and for a while was thinking just take the ****ing meds but I just can't anymore I'm done with them. I managed 188 days on meds that's right I couldn't even make it to 200 days. Who am I? In one hand i feel like it was the best decision i have made in about a decade. But on the other hand I still have the nagging voice saying to take them and I will be better and I need them and that they are essential for me to live a decent ish life. But I feel so good and have felt good since Nov. I have been so good mood wise minus late 27th Dec until mid 29th Dec where I was crying and angry and pissed off. But after that i just felt i bounced back. I'm not manic, I'm not dangerous, I'm not risky, anything I'm cautious and guarded. I even made appts and at that a gp appt cause I am having severe headaches. I'm not really sleeping but this was since before I stopped my meds. I am getting on average 7 hours if I'm lucky not a night but in general. Some nights its barely sleep. I'm waking up early and can't get to sleep. I'm not really paranoid anymore if i can say that. I'm paranoid still about the flat but it's quite laxed. I'm more paranoid about myself and my own sanity. I'm still not motivated to do anything like housework, stuff to do with myself. I'm buggered when i eventually stop volunteering at the DC whenever that will be. Not really committed to RS. Haven't been back since Dec 20th. BUT I did book myself in for singing lessons OMG!!! Its a block of 4 i have to think of songs i want to sing. Had my first lesson on 13th Jan 2020 it was A M A Z I N G!!! who needs meds anyways. For now i feel fantastic"

So I wrote the above and I still stand by this. I was thinking of showing my therapist when I next see her but I'm unsure. She isn't connected to my mental health team. She is private so I pay for her where as my mental health team is free as they are part of the NHS system. So she probably wouldn't contact anyone unless I was in danger etc.

The only thing that I can say is I'm re-living things from my past. I left school in 2003 at 18. I've have vivid memories of primary (ages 5-12) and high school (ages 12-18). I was bullied in primary school so been talking about that when I'm alone in my flat. Talking aloud to the people I see. I know their not real don't worry lol.

Been thinking about my intelligence and how thick I am. Believe it or not I had learning disabilities when I was in Primary school. I couldn't read/write/spell/hold a pencil/do maths (this one is still problematic for me). I feel like I'm such an idiot when it comes to intelligence and that I'll never amount to anything as it's all over my head the words people use etc. Thicko over here I'm afraid

I think perhaps it might be wise to focus less on worrying whether or not you are bipolar so you can channel your energy into staying as healthy as possible. Track your moods daily. Eat right. Stay away from substances. Deal with your emotions properly. Find spiritual balance. Do all that you can to give your mind and heart the best chance possible for success.

Let someone close to you know what you're doing and be honest about not taking meds. Lying creates imbalance and that's the last thing you need.

You do have a history of classic bipolar manic behavior that I have spoken with you about on several occasions spaced apart over the last year. So you were cycling while on the meds. You can for sure say you have experienced bipolar like cycles recently. That's a fact. However, I can appreciate wanting to see how you do without medication. If you feel you owe that to yourself, then you must do what feels right.

If you or a loved one sees signs of a swing it makes sense for you to be monitored closely. It makes sense to take action and returning to meds should be a consideration. Do not fear taking proper action to care for yourself. Anything you do to stay safe is an accomplishment and in no way a sign of failure.

Bpcyclist gave some great info regarding relapse. In my mind those numbers make sense for several reasons. I've spent a great deal of time researching how the mind and the body process emotional catalysts. Our minds and bodies are essentially programmed over time to respond in a certain way based upon past experiences. This is why triggers affect us the way they do. They set off chain reactions within us and it is highly likely we will receive similar results if we do not do the work to force ourselves to create new patterns and responses to these catalysts. In essence, it makes complete sense that you'd be 'fine' while your triggers are at bay. I imagine though that unless you have a well defined strategy of working with future triggers and a lot of support you might find yourself cycling again. Even if you did do all of the work to create new patterns you might find you still need medication or other psychotherapy support. There is absolutely nothing at all wrong with that and it is wise and loving to offer ourselves what we need to stay safe and healthy.

I wish you all the best with this Miss Laura. I experience you as an intelligent woman. I believe you are gifted enough to do what is best for yourself. Not understanding the words others use does not mean you are not intelligent. It means they have failed to offer communication in a way that resonates with you. If anything I have said here confuses you, let me know and I'll see what I can do to find a better metaphor to help explain.

Hey,

If I tell my Sister she will be massively hurt, disappointed and upset with me. I hate when I disappoint people. I try my best to be the best I can but I always fail in re to this fecked up head of mines.

I don't drink or do drugs, I have an unhealthy lifestyle in regards to exercise and diet. But I'm working on it with a dietician. I've been told I meet 2 criterias for eating disorder (1. Binge eating which I already guessed as I've been like this my whole life. 2. Bulimia I don't make myself sick but I have more obsessions re and surrounding food and diet and exercise). I'm trying to eat at least 2 meals a day and less snacking. Dreading my appt in Feb as she is weighing me. I haven't been weighed since Aug.

If I tell someone from my mental health team. I know for a fact I'll be told to get back on them. They'll remind me of the dangers and I'll be nagged until i go back on them. I can guarantee i will fold are 2 times being told to get back on them. I cave in to please people all the time. I hate again letting people down and i take this guilt upon myself. I'm a perfectionist and a people pleaser. But when i stop my meds I'm doing it for myself to make myself happy. As I'm not happy in life. I just pretend.

After I told my therapist I was feeling so guilty I went and stuffed my face until I was stuffed. I hate myself for it but hey ho I'm gonna say it I'm damaged in a sense.

Sleep has been a problem since roughly Aug. I'm mostly not getting enough sleep. Then I'm shattered all day but by bedtime PING I'm awake.

I have a problem with med compliance too. I'll take them for a few weeks, maybe even months, then all of a sudden it's like taking them just like jumping off a building not gonna do it. I'm on risperdal shots now so don't have to worry about going off any time. They also have Invega, abilify, haldol, and prolixin (maybe I'm forgetting some?_)))

Yeah we spoke about getting an injection but they only do the injection for Aririprazole. I'm also on Depakote and Propanol. So they've decided against giving me injections.

I can't get my head around taking meds. It's like I have an aversion to taking them. I wish I was so into taking them but I'm useless. My Mum takes meds for her heart etc and I'm always on the ball in regards to getting her to take her meds (hypocritical or what). Believe it or not administering medication was my job. Yes I actually had to get the men I supported to take their meds daily. I'll walk the walk but can't talk the talk

When I cycle my eating disorder flares. You may be depressed just a lower form then you are use to. I say that because of motivation and ED symptoms.

It sounds like you're able to see some of your patterns here. You mentioned you want to avoid disappointing people. You also mentioned it causes you guilt and pain. Eventually, a force like that builds. If you can see it coming, you can do something to shift it.

This would require getting down to the bottom of why you're willing to hurt yourself to please others. You'd need to determine why you feel your pain and suffering is any less important than someone else's. It probably stems from core trauma and it is most likely complex and will take time to work out. Working it out is extremely valuable. Self sabotaging behavior is a downward spiral to nowhere. I know this personally.

Typically if we are doing something that is appropriate and healthy for ourselves, the value will be evident. It can be explained to others. I think if you have a plan to find wellness med free and it is well thought out you can explain that to others and they should also be able to see the value. However, if there is no attempt to address the root causes and behaviors that foster instability in your life, letting someone know you are going off meds most likely does induce fear for them as they can rationally expect a return of your symptoms. So in the case of your sister, she probably will be disappointed when she learns of your actions and that you ommitted telling her and your treatment team. She will see the behaviors are the same and won't see the justification of your choice.

The eating disorders are a physical manifestation of these emotional imbalances playing out. Our subconscious mind drives behaviors like these and the subconscious works in symbols like we see in dreams. What does the binging represent to you? What does the purging represent? For example one might binge because they felt like something they loved was taken from them and they had no power over it. One might purge because they wish to rid themselves of the guilt or shame of hidden behaviors or emotions. It could be completely different for you. The goal is to spend time contemplating what your body and actions are trying to tell you.

Meds or no meds, these are some of the types of inner work questions that may be helpful for you to resolve. I'm glad you are talking with your therapist openly. That is a good start!

I'm lowering my seroquel by 1/3 for over two weeks now. Pdoc says its just for sleep at this dose.