[~Christina]

Thank you Fooze for clearing up that question

[Nammu]

Originally Posted by BirdDancer

I am happy that this thread was created and that it is permitted, with strict guidelines. It is such an important topic. As for my contribution, I feel my share is more as a person who lost a loved one to suicide than as a person who ever struggled with severe suicidal thoughts. That's not to say that during my depressions and mixed states that I didn't wish the pain to end. Of course I did. Also, during my mixed states, "calls for help" were common for me, and landed me in the hospital a couple times.

If anything I write below is not within the guidelines, I understand if it needs to be removed/reworked.

On June 10, 2017, my family lost a beautiful young man. He was only 24 years old. He was my sister's youngest son, and a nephew to me that I was particularly close to. He had, indeed, had a very rough childhood and youth because of bipolar depression. Perhaps his Asperger's Syndrome was also a contributing factor. Suicidal thoughts, threats, and attempts were not uncommon for him. The first case of this was when he was only about 7 years old. In a six year period, between 17 and 23, he was hospitalized 9 times, some of the times he received ECT. He went through the same types of issues with medications as many of us go through. Then maybe one (or one and half) years before the date mentioned, he decided to quit his medications cold turkey. Unlike me, who when I tried that a couple times, I immediately became terribly manic with psychosis, he had a lovely "honeymoon period", as I called it, for about a year. He lost a lot of weight and felt very well, and even started a job for the first time in his life. He developed a passion for photography, which he excelled at. All seemed just marvelous, but then that feeling started to fade suddenly. What caused it? There were absolutely no obvious triggers.

Like a tidal wave, my nephew was overtaken by bipolar depression again. He had no life preserver of any kind. He had long before not only quit the medications, but also seeing a psychiatrist or therapist. The risks to his life were voiced, and taken somewhat seriously, but it was too late.

A little over a month before we lost my nephew, he called me and said he wanted to take me out to lunch. I remember being somewhat unwell then, mood-wise, and almost refused the date. My husband urged me to accept, so I did. I'm so glad I did! So we went out to a Chinese restaurant, and for the first time he insisted on paying. I was touched! Then he asked if I would take a walk with him. Again, I almost refused, but decided to accept but say that it should be a short walk.

My nephew took me along a path in the woods. His favorite path towards his very favorite spot in the world. There, I took a photo of him, not knowing it would be the very last photo ever taken of him. I recall asking him to help drag "his old aunt" back up the steep slope. As we walked back towards his home, we heard peeper frogs and identified several birds. When I was about to part from him for home, I gave him a big hug and told him I loved him. That was not usual for us, because people in my family are not big huggers, and my nephew, perhaps because of Asperger's, wasn't usually comfortable with them.

A few weeks later, my nephew was hospitalized because of suicidal threats. At the hospital, they had to start his medications from scratch. He was only there three days before he convinced them he was OK and wanted to go home. Upon his discharge, the only medication he was on was Lithium, and he was only taking 300 mg. He was a 6' 6" man on only 300 mg of Lithium. One would think he would have needed at least 1,200 mg Lithium, and would need to stay safe on that (or other therapeutic dose) for at least a week or two, for minimal safety. But he came home...and then only days later, he was gone.

The loss of my nephew to bipolar depression has caused trauma for my family, and the disorder stole the life of a beautiful young man. Of course my sister, brother-in-law, and other nephew have needed intensive outpatient treatment because of the loss. My brother-in-law's opioid addiction grew worse. My father's alcohol addiction grew worse. I had/have to work my most extreme coping skills and have the above story going through my head causing "I should haves", "I could haves", "If only I had's" torture me, at times. It's affected my brother, too, and surely others. Truth is, it was a tragedy! No one was at fault. Mental illness is just hell. But that's not to say that it must take people.

Attached is the photo I took of my nephew that last time I saw him. Just weeks before we lost him. He was alive. If only I could grab him in a hug again, but I can't. The loss of him, in a physical state, is permanent.

A beautiful memorial.

[Sunflower123]

My first attempt was at age 16. My most recent was in early 2019. I’m horrified when I’m thinking clearly at what I’ve done. At the time it seems to be the only answer and I am impulsive. I’m not scared to seek help. It just gets that bad that quick and it’s off to the races. I’d like to think I’ve learned from these experiences so it won’t ever happen again.

This is a great thread. I was active on the site in the days before and after my latest attempt and I felt that I couldn’t say a word so I didn’t. There is such a stigma around it that I feel vulnerable and will probably delete this post.

I do now have a detailed prevention plan as well as a hope box.

Originally Posted by TunedOut

I am so sorry about your family's loss.

I truly hope that, with time, the tragic feelings of trauma will become less intense for all of you and you will begin to focus more on the happy moments that you were able to share.

I do not remember what your spiritual beliefs are but I believe that your nephew is still with you and his parents in spirit and may even visit all of you periodically. I hope that you all can find ways to heal and comfort yourself. I hope that his parents can find places to talk.

Sometimes having people in our family who have a mental illness or addiction can be very isolating. It is just not the kind of thing that we can talk to everyone about because, I think there are still some people and employers that have fears and misconceptions about mental illness. None of my employers know about my mental illness and I think it is for the best (in my case) not to bring it up but it would be wonderful for some if they could and feel safe about mentioning it (I know we have laws that protect people but law does not completely eradicate internal misconceptions and bias). Unfortunately, I would have to include myself in the category of having had an unhelpful reaction to a loved one in the middle of a crisis. Our society has so much more to learn in this area--myself included!

Thank you, Tuned Out. And yes, I have my own type of spiritual beliefs that keep my nephew alive, in a sense, but it would be so so much better for him to be alive in person!

I know how the extreme pain of depression can make life seem so unbearable, but just as that tidal wave came that eventually took him, so can we survive tidal waves. Though I can't speak for everyone, I can say that the worst of times can be left in the past. If only my nephew had gotten proper help and had a life preserver, we might be walking in those same woods today...talking about birds. Talking about how happy we are to be alive, despite some of the deep pain from the past.

I do hope you will find more people willing to listen, when you need it. We are here. We understand! I understand the hesitancy to reach out to certain people, under certain conditions. Mental health issues of all sorts, including depression, are still sadly regarded differently than other types of illness. I want that to change. May we all work (in whatever capacity, to whatever degree possible) to help that change.

[Moose72]

Speaking of prevention plans, I don't know where mine went. I know some things that are on it, though. Call a friend, watch a movie, read a book, go out with a friend and I have the crisis team I can call if I need help. Past that, I can always go to the Psych Emergency Services at the hospital.

[Fuzzybear]

Hospital no thank you. They hurt me when I was very young and they do not help me.

Respect to all here

[Fuzzybear]

Originally Posted by FooZe

Sorry to be late to this discussion. Everywhere in these forums, including in this thread, we don't allow you to describe plans that you may be considering for ending your life. That would include, for example, "If I'm not feeling better by (date), that's it!" We'd probably let you mention in passing that at some time in the past you were feeling so low that you were considering (unspecified) suicide plans. Still, no details, please.

We normally don't allow methods or means of suicide to be discussed, even behind trigger tags. We'd expect such discussion to prove too upsetting for at least some other members who might have considered ending their own life and/or had a loved one end theirs.

Thank you for the clarification Fooze

[Fuzzybear]

Originally Posted by Wild Coyote

SUICIDE DISCUSSION THREAD

Welcome Everyone!

We'd like to introduce a (trial)Suicide Discussion Thread to address the topic of suicide, which is a significant challenge for those living with either Bipolar I or Bipolar II.

Researchers estimate that between 25% and 60% of individuals with bipolar disorder will attempt suicide at least once in their lives and between 4% and 19% will compete suicide.

Suicide attempts in bipolar I and bipolar II disorder: a review and meta-analysis of the evidence

In response to recent requests for a safe place to openly discuss suicidal thoughts/ideation/struggles, we hope to address these needs via a discussion thread here in the Bipolar Forum.

~Christina and Wild Coyote have secured PC Admin's approval to start a (trial) Suicide Discussion Thread.

Please Note the Following Guidelines:

*This thread may not be a good fit for some; yet may prove very helpful for others. Know your triggers!

*Do NOT discuss plans or intentions here.

*Neither one of us offers 1:1 support. If you are experiencing acute difficulties and are not receiving the support you need from the community, you may note this in your post; it would then be wise to seek an alternative source of support.

*Make sure you have a crisis plan in place with your provider so you know which steps to take in order to stay safe.

PLEASE REVIEW THE PC COMMUNITY GUIDELINES FOR POSTING ON THIS TOPIC:

Our Suicidal Posting Policy & Suicide Resources

There is a list of hotlines on the above thread as well.

If you have questions, please pose them in a post directly on the thread.

This is a trial Suicide DiscussionThread. If members respect guidelines, we may be able to offer long-term Suicidal Discussions and support.

THANK YOU!

I try to respect guidelines


I thought of a nice place once....

But I prefer staying with other bears

[Wild Coyote]

Originally Posted by Jennifer 1967

My first attempt was at age 16. My most recent was in early 2019. I’m horrified when I’m thinking clearly at what I’ve done. At the time it seems to be the only answer and I am impulsive. I’m not scared to seek help. It just gets that bad that quick and it’s off to the races. I’d like to think I’ve learned from these experiences so it won’t ever happen again.

This is a great thread. I was active on the site in the days before and after my latest attempt and I felt that I couldn’t say a word so I didn’t. There is such a stigma around it that I feel vulnerable and will probably delete this post.

I do now have a detailed prevention plan as well as a hope box.

HI Jennifer,

You are very courageous to post your experiences here.
I am so glad you have survived and are okay.

I do think many attempts are impulsive.
I am soooo sorry you'd felt you could not share about this and were left all alone to cope with all that was going on for you.

I certainly wish I could have been present for you during that time.
I am available to you anytime, whatever is going on, no judgment, ever.
I love you!

I've never made an attempt before, but I have had suicidal thoughts for quite some time. I mean, I'm stable now, so I don't have any right now, but I used to be a very, very angry person and then I'd do something I regretted, which in turn gave me suicidal thoughts because the rage was too overwhelming and I realized I hurt a lot of people. Maybe I was depressed. I don't know. But usually when I'm very angry, I get suicidal thoughts.

Whenever I feel that way, I try to see my therapist once a week, if not more often. I also call and talk to her over the phone. I suppose that's what's kept me from making an attempt?

The other thing is, my cousin served in Afghanistan and he was left with horrible PTSD. He had suicidal thoughts for quite a while until he finally saw a psychiatrist. However, because of his strength and determination to push through, I feel more motivated to do the same when I'm feeling down. I do worry about him a lot, though. As I mentioned I think a month ago (?), someone I knew made an attempt and succeeded because he wasn't getting treatment for his PTSD and depression. His father said that doctors refused to prescribe him anything, and that the "only way to help him" was with therapy. (Yeah, it was quite a crappy veteran's hospital.) So of course he drank a lot to wash away the horrible feelings, and unfortunately, that only exacerbated the depression until he finally gave up. But this is why my cousin sees a private psychiatrist and private therapist. While some veteran's hospitals are really good, there are a lot of bad ones in the mix.

[Fuzzybear]

They just label us and write us off in this forest
As “beyond help”
After 15 minutes

Possible trigger:

And shame us if we ask for “help”

[Fuzzybear]

They want “significant change”

Possible trigger:

Sometimes I wish I was “brave enough” to do it, they have NO respect or care for me (in this forest in real life and if I try to speak some smart *** abuser mislabels me and harms me

[Fuzzybear]

Being “honest with the providers” doesn’t help

They SUCK

There are too many lies.....I do not like them

[Wild Coyote]

Originally Posted by bluebicycle

I've never made an attempt before, but I have had suicidal thoughts for quite some time. I mean, I'm stable now, so I don't have any right now, but I used to be a very, very angry person and then I'd do something I regretted, which in turn gave me suicidal thoughts because the rage was too overwhelming and I realized I hurt a lot of people. Maybe I was depressed. I don't know. But usually when I'm very angry, I get suicidal thoughts.

Whenever I feel that way, I try to see my therapist once a week, if not more often. I also call and talk to her over the phone. I suppose that's what's kept me from making an attempt?

The other thing is, my cousin served in Afghanistan and he was left with horrible PTSD. He had suicidal thoughts for quite a while until he finally saw a psychiatrist. However, because of his strength and determination to push through, I feel more motivated to do the same when I'm feeling down. I do worry about him a lot, though. As I mentioned I think a month ago (?), someone I knew made an attempt and succeeded because he wasn't getting treatment for his PTSD and depression. His father said that doctors refused to prescribe him anything, and that the "only way to help him" was with therapy. (Yeah, it was quite a crappy veteran's hospital.) So of course he drank a lot to wash away the horrible feelings, and unfortunately, that only exacerbated the depression until he finally gave up. But this is why my cousin sees a private psychiatrist and private therapist. While some veteran's hospitals are really good, there are a lot of bad ones in the mix.

Hey, Blue -

Thanks so much for sharing here!

Some people feel suicide is a result of anger turned inward. It does not surprise me that you were having suicidal thoughts while also feeling angry. I am sorry, too, that you have gone through this and am glad you are okay!

I am glad your cousin recognizes his PTSD and his depression. I hope he continues to want s support/help. I am very sorry you have lost your friend.

I hope you never have to feel so horrible again. I am around and you can look me up anytime. I am hoping you will look me up if/when you ever feel this way again. I do not want you suffering all alone. Ever. Love ya!

[Wild Coyote]

Originally Posted by Fuzzybear

They want “significant change”

Possible trigger:

Sometimes I wish I was “brave enough” to do it, they have NO respect or care for me (in this forest in real life and if I try to speak some smart *** abuser mislabels me and harms me

HI Fuzzy,
You sound very angry and sad, too.
What's going on for you?
How can we help?
We care and we have respect for you. You are safe here with us.

[Wild Coyote]

Originally Posted by Wild Coyote

HI Fuzzy,
You sound very angry and sad, too.
What's going on for you?
How can we help?
We care and we have respect for you. You are safe here with us.

Hi Fuzzy,
If you are feeling triggered, you may reach me by PM and I will talk with you.

[CANDC]

Originally Posted by Jennifer 1967

My first attempt was at age 16. My most recent was in early 2019. I’m horrified when I’m thinking clearly at what I’ve done. At the time it seems to be the only answer and I am impulsive. I’m not scared to seek help. It just gets that bad that quick and it’s off to the races. I’d like to think I’ve learned from these experiences so it won’t ever happen again.

This is a great thread. I was active on the site in the days before and after my latest attempt and I felt that I couldn’t say a word so I didn’t. There is such a stigma around it that I feel vulnerable and will probably delete this post.

I do now have a detailed prevention plan as well as a hope box.

Jennifer, I am sorry you have had a couple of attempts, but fortunately not successful.

I have heard of safety plans which sounds like a "prevention plan" but what is a "hope box" and how do you start one?
@CANDC

[CANDC]

Originally Posted by Jennifer 1967

My first attempt was at age 16. My most recent was in early 2019. I’m horrified when I’m thinking clearly at what I’ve done. At the time it seems to be the only answer and I am impulsive. I’m not scared to seek help. It just gets that bad that quick and it’s off to the races. I’d like to think I’ve learned from these experiences so it won’t ever happen again.

This is a great thread. I was active on the site in the days before and after my latest attempt and I felt that I couldn’t say a word so I didn’t. There is such a stigma around it that I feel vulnerable and will probably delete this post.

I do now have a detailed prevention plan as well as a hope box.

Jennifer, I am sorry you have had a couple of attempts, but fortunately not successful.

I have heard of safety plans which sounds like a "prevention plan" but what is a "hope box" and how do you start one?
@CANDC

[Daonnachd]

I want to first send a huge Thank you! to Christina and Wild Coyote for getting this thread going. ...And to the administration team for having faith in the members' ability to keep the community safe.


I on occasion struggle with suicidal ideation and impetuous urges so may post here, but mostly I will be reading to make sure that if I can help someone by listening they know that I'm here. I hope most especially that for those fighting urges once they've "gotten it out" here that they will feel somewhat freed of the pressure.

[Sunflower123]

Originally Posted by CANDC

Jennifer, I am sorry you have had a couple of attempts, but fortunately not successful.

I have heard of safety plans which sounds like a "prevention plan" but what is a "hope box" and how do you start one?
@CANDC

A hope box is a box - decorated or not - which you place items in to help you out of a tight spot. My box includes photos of family/friends/pets, a letter from the “well” me, a particularly meaningful letter from my daughter, cards, sand from my favorite beach, prayer beads and cards with helpful affirmations from my NP.