[Wild Coyote]

SUICIDE DISCUSSION THREAD

Welcome Everyone!

We'd like to introduce a (trial)Suicide Discussion Thread to address the topic of suicide, which is a significant challenge for those living with either Bipolar I or Bipolar II.

Researchers estimate that between 25% and 60% of individuals with bipolar disorder will attempt suicide at least once in their lives and between 4% and 19% will compete suicide.

Suicide attempts in bipolar I and bipolar II disorder: a review and meta-analysis of the evidence

In response to recent requests for a safe place to openly discuss suicidal thoughts/ideation/struggles, we hope to address these needs via a discussion thread here in the Bipolar Forum.

~Christina and Wild Coyote have secured PC Admin's approval to start a (trial) Suicide Discussion Thread.

Please Note the Following Guidelines:

*This thread may not be a good fit for some; yet may prove very helpful for others. Know your triggers!

*Do NOT discuss plans or intentions here.

*Neither one of us offers 1:1 support. If you are experiencing acute difficulties and are not receiving the support you need from the community, you may note this in your post; it would then be wise to seek an alternative source of support.

*Make sure you have a crisis plan in place with your provider so you know which steps to take in order to stay safe.

PLEASE REVIEW THE PC COMMUNITY GUIDELINES FOR POSTING ON THIS TOPIC:

https://psychcentralforums.com/depre...resources.html

There is a list of hotlines on the above thread as well.

If you have questions, please pose them in a post directly on the thread.

This is a trial Suicide DiscussionThread. If members respect guidelines, we may be able to offer long-term Suicidal Discussions and support.

THANK YOU!

[Wild Coyote]

We'd like to give special thanks to Daonnachd. He has consistently advocated for the needs of people struggling with various suicidal issues.

[Nammu]

Good topic for discussion. In my state suicide ranks in the top ten reasons for death, yet mental health budgets are constantly cut. The number of Pdocs is shrinking as the older ones die off and/or retire and new doctors are not choosing to practice psychology. This needs to be talked about and brought into the open .

[wiretwister]

thank you for opening a public forum . . . .

[~Christina]

Nammu I agree with you fully. It is a huge problem and just getting worse.

[~Christina]

Welcome Tig

[Moose72]

@Nammu its good that I've found a good pdoc. I will be upset when mine leaves. Funny thing is, when I had my sui attempt five years ago, I don't remember her being involved. There were police and an ambulance and a hospital stay but pdoc never visited or called. I wonder what's in my file about it.

[Nammu]

I do remember in my darkest days that I thought I was alone. I truly believed my daughter would be better off without me around. Looking back I can see this was false and twisted thinking of my illness. I can remember waking up in ICU and raging that "they" had saved me. I don't know what can be done for anyone in that state except being put in a safe place and kept safe. There is no magic meds in my opinion and we need more hospitals for that state. All the meds and all the coping skills in the world don't matter when your own mind is in that darkness. It was terribly terrifiing being in that place and I believe only time and compassion from the staff helped me. I don't know but this new trend of throwing meds at people simply isn't the answer. We need safe and accessible hospitals. That's my 2 cents on suicide. Maybe meds can prevent a person from being consumed by the illness but once there you need that safe place.

[~Christina]

Originally Posted by Nammu

I do remember in my darkest days that I thought I was alone. I truly believed my daughter would be better off without me around. Looking back I can see this was false and twisted thinking of my illness. I can remember waking up in ICU and raging that "they" had saved me. I don't know what can be done for anyone in that state except being put in a safe place and kept safe. There is no magic meds in my opinion and we need more hospitals for that state. All the meds and all the coping skills in the world don't matter when your own mind is in that darkness. It was terribly terrifiing being in that place and I believe only time and compassion from the staff helped me. I don't know but this new trend of throwing meds at people simply isn't the answer. We need safe and accessible hospitals. That's my 2 cents on suicide. Maybe meds can prevent a person from being consumed by the illness but once there you need that safe place.

I am so sorry you have gone through all that

I agree with you, there is only so much that can be done before you need IP for your safety and safety of others.

Im glad that mental health is being talked about more, More talking and taking the stigma away can help show a need. A need for More a need for Better.

[Wild Coyote]

Originally Posted by Nammu

I do remember in my darkest days that I thought I was alone. I truly believed my daughter would be better off without me around. Looking back I can see this was false and twisted thinking of my illness. I can remember waking up in ICU and raging that "they" had saved me. I don't know what can be done for anyone in that state except being put in a safe place and kept safe. There is no magic meds in my opinion and we need more hospitals for that state. All the meds and all the coping skills in the world don't matter when your own mind is in that darkness. It was terribly terrifiing being in that place and I believe only time and compassion from the staff helped me. I don't know but this new trend of throwing meds at people simply isn't the answer. We need safe and accessible hospitals. That's my 2 cents on suicide. Maybe meds can prevent a person from being consumed by the illness but once there you need that safe place.

Hi Nammu, Thanks so much for sharing .your story. with us. You help to shed light on the needs of the individual, which is critically important.
I definitely do not think the meds are a better approach than human compassion. I have seen studies where certain AP meds address suicidality almost immediately.

Thanks again.

[Crazy Hitch]

@wildCoyote

Are we allowed to discuss previous personal experiences, as in we are not a threat now to ourselves or others? And when you say “plan” does that mean we are restricted from mentioning methods we may have used in the past?

Sorry to be late to the party but I need to be sure I understand peramatera.

[Wild Coyote]

Originally Posted by Crazy Hitch

@wildCoyote

Are we allowed to discuss previous personal experiences, as in we are not a threat now to ourselves or others? And when you say “plan” does that mean we are restricted from mentioning methods we may have used in the past?

Sorry to be late to the party but I need to be sure I understand peramatera.

Thank you for your question, Crazy Hitch!

We are in unchartered waters. I am currently attempting to doublecheck with Fooze on your question, which is an excellent question. I hope to get back to you ASAP Thank you for your patience.

[TunedOut]

Originally Posted by Wild Coyote

SUICIDE DISCUSSION THREAD

Researchers estimate that between 25% and 60% of individuals with bipolar disorder will attempt suicide at least once in their lives and between 4% and 19% will compete suicide.

Please Note the Following Guidelines:

*This thread may not be a good fit for some; yet may prove very helpful for others. Know your triggers!

*Do NOT discuss plans or intentions here.

*Neither one of us offers 1:1 support. If you are experiencing acute difficulties and are not receiving the support you need from the community, you may note this in your post; it would then be wise to seek an alternative source of support.

*Make sure you have a crisis plan in place with your provider so you know which steps to take in order to stay safe.

PLEASE REVIEW THE PC COMMUNITY GUIDELINES FOR POSTING ON THIS TOPIC:

Our Suicidal Posting Policy & Suicide Resources

THANK YOU!

Thanks to Christina and Wild Coyote for getting permission for this discussion!
The community guidelines included:
What We Mean by "No Suicidal Posts, Please"

We're okay with people discussing their somewhat vague thoughts or feelings they have about wanting to commit suicide. Such posts should be marked with a trigger icon when made, and usually posted here in the Depression forum.

We're not okay with people discussing their specific intentions, plans, methods, or such in a way to suggest they are currently in crisis and in need of immediate assistance. So we do not allow talk of specific plans, methods, or intentions. We're not a crisis hotline, and are not setup to deal with people in such immediate need. We believe that when a person is at that point, they should reach out for a real-world resource in getting help.

I really did not recognize that I had a problem that needed treatment until my suicidal urges became very strong causing me to act upon them. I now understand better why I was so suicidal and no longer feel suicidal anymore. I needed help, education, and many other things to get to that point. Being able to talk to others that have experienced the same things was very, very key to getting to this point in my life. It is important for people who feel suicidal to be able to talk about it. It might save their life!!! Hugs to alls who are in so much pain that they don't want to be here anymore.

I am happy that this thread was created and that it is permitted, with strict guidelines. It is such an important topic. As for my contribution, I feel my share is more as a person who lost a loved one to suicide than as a person who ever struggled with severe suicidal thoughts. That's not to say that during my depressions and mixed states that I didn't wish the pain to end. Of course I did. Also, during my mixed states, "calls for help" were common for me, and landed me in the hospital a couple times.

If anything I write below is not within the guidelines, I understand if it needs to be removed/reworked.

On June 10, 2017, my family lost a beautiful young man. He was only 24 years old. He was my sister's youngest son, and a nephew to me that I was particularly close to. He had, indeed, had a very rough childhood and youth because of bipolar depression. Perhaps his Asperger's Syndrome was also a contributing factor. Suicidal thoughts, threats, and attempts were not uncommon for him. The first case of this was when he was only about 7 years old. In a six year period, between 17 and 23, he was hospitalized 9 times, some of the times he received ECT. He went through the same types of issues with medications as many of us go through. Then maybe one (or one and half) years before the date mentioned, he decided to quit his medications cold turkey. Unlike me, who when I tried that a couple times, I immediately became terribly manic with psychosis, he had a lovely "honeymoon period", as I called it, for about a year. He lost a lot of weight and felt very well, and even started a job for the first time in his life. He developed a passion for photography, which he excelled at. All seemed just marvelous, but then that feeling started to fade suddenly. What caused it? There were absolutely no obvious triggers.

Like a tidal wave, my nephew was overtaken by bipolar depression again. He had no life preserver of any kind. He had long before not only quit the medications, but also seeing a psychiatrist or therapist. The risks to his life were voiced, and taken somewhat seriously, but it was too late.

A little over a month before we lost my nephew, he called me and said he wanted to take me out to lunch. I remember being somewhat unwell then, mood-wise, and almost refused the date. My husband urged me to accept, so I did. I'm so glad I did! So we went out to a Chinese restaurant, and for the first time he insisted on paying. I was touched! Then he asked if I would take a walk with him. Again, I almost refused, but decided to accept but say that it should be a short walk.

My nephew took me along a path in the woods. His favorite path towards his very favorite spot in the world. There, I took a photo of him, not knowing it would be the very last photo ever taken of him. I recall asking him to help drag "his old aunt" back up the steep slope. As we walked back towards his home, we heard peeper frogs and identified several birds. When I was about to part from him for home, I gave him a big hug and told him I loved him. That was not usual for us, because people in my family are not big huggers, and my nephew, perhaps because of Asperger's, wasn't usually comfortable with them.

A few weeks later, my nephew was hospitalized because of suicidal threats. At the hospital, they had to start his medications from scratch. He was only there three days before he convinced them he was OK and wanted to go home. Upon his discharge, the only medication he was on was Lithium, and he was only taking 300 mg. He was a 6' 6" man on only 300 mg of Lithium. One would think he would have needed at least 1,200 mg Lithium, and would need to stay safe on that (or other therapeutic dose) for at least a week or two, for minimal safety. But he came home...and then only days later, he was gone.

The loss of my nephew to bipolar depression has caused trauma for my family, and the disorder stole the life of a beautiful young man. Of course my sister, brother-in-law, and other nephew have needed intensive outpatient treatment because of the loss. My brother-in-law's opioid addiction grew worse. My father's alcohol addiction grew worse. I had/have to work my most extreme coping skills and have the above story going through my head causing "I should haves", "I could haves", "If only I had's" torture me, at times. It's affected my brother, too, and surely others. Truth is, it was a tragedy! No one was at fault. Mental illness is just hell. But that's not to say that it must take people.

Attached is the photo I took of my nephew that last time I saw him. Just weeks before we lost him. He was alive. If only I could grab him in a hug again, but I can't. The loss of him, in a physical state, is permanent.

[Wild Coyote]

Originally Posted by Crazy Hitch

@wildCoyote

Are we allowed to discuss previous personal experiences, as in we are not a threat now to ourselves or others? And when you say “plan” does that mean we are restricted from mentioning methods we may have used in the past?

Sorry to be late to the party but I need to be sure I understand peramatera.

Hi!
Thanks for your patience.

I cannot reach anyone in order to get clarification.

I am going to make a judgement call here.

In prohibiting plan and/or intent, we were hoping to encourage people in crisis to contact the emergency services available to them.

In that you are referring to past experiences, I think it is fine to tell your stories. Please put methods in a trigger box. There's more here about plans and methods.

This entire thread has a trigger warning, yet we cannot be too careful.

I hope this clarifies for you. Please let me know if not,

Again, thank you for handling this in a very responsible manner!

[Wild Coyote]

Originally Posted by TunedOut

Thanks to Christina and Wild Coyote for getting permission for this discussion!
The community guidelines included:
What We Mean by "No Suicidal Posts, Please"

We're okay with people discussing their somewhat vague thoughts or feelings they have about wanting to commit suicide. Such posts should be marked with a trigger icon when made, and usually posted here in the Depression forum.

We're not okay with people discussing their specific intentions, plans, methods, or such in a way to suggest they are currently in crisis and in need of immediate assistance. So we do not allow talk of specific plans, methods, or intentions. We're not a crisis hotline, and are not setup to deal with people in such immediate need. We believe that when a person is at that point, they should reach out for a real-world resource in getting help.

I really did not recognize that I had a problem that needed treatment until my suicidal urges became very strong causing me to act upon them. I now understand better why I was so suicidal and no longer feel suicidal anymore. I needed help, education, and many other things to get to that point. Being able to talk to others that have experienced the same things was very, very key to getting to this point in my life. It is important for people who feel suicidal to be able to talk about it. It might save their life!!! Hugs to alls who are in so much pain that they don't want to be here anymore.

Hi Tuned Out,

We deeply appreciate your feedback.

We are prohibiting plans, intentions and/or methods to suggest they are currently in crisis or in need of immediate assistance.

If anyone is currently in crisis, please contact a hotline, contact your provider and/or go to your local ER.

I feel people can learn about their own suicidality by listening to the experiences of people here. If doing so puts someone into crisis, please do take the emergency measures listed above.

Anyone may talk about their own suicidal feelings without mentioning plans, method and/or intent.

I hope this helps, Tuned Out. If not, please let me know..

[Wild Coyote]

Originally Posted by BirdDancer

I am happy that this thread was created and that it is permitted, with strict guidelines. It is such an important topic. As for my contribution, I feel my share is more as a person who lost a loved one to suicide than as a person who ever struggled with severe suicidal thoughts. That's not to say that during my depressions and mixed states that I didn't wish the pain to end. Of course I did. Also, during my mixed states, "calls for help" were common for me, and landed me in the hospital a couple times.

If anything I write below is not within the guidelines, I understand if it needs to be removed/reworked.

On June 10, 2017, my family lost a beautiful young man. He was only 24 years old. He was my sister's youngest son, and a nephew to me that I was particularly close to. He had, indeed, had a very rough childhood and youth because of bipolar depression. Perhaps his Asperger's Syndrome was also a contributing factor. Suicidal thoughts, threats, and attempts were not uncommon for him. The first case of this was when he was only about 7 years old. In a six year period, between 17 and 23, he was hospitalized 9 times, some of the times he received ECT. He went through the same types of issues with medications as many of us go through. Then maybe one (or one and half) years before the date mentioned, he decided to quit his medications cold turkey. Unlike me, who when I tried that a couple times, I became terribly manic with psychosis, he had a lovely "honeymoon period", as I called it, for almost two years. He lost a lot of weight and felt very well, and even started a job for the first time in his life. He developed a passion for photography, which he excelled at. All seemed just marvelous, but then that feeling started fade suddenly. What caused it? There were absolutely no obvious triggers.

Like a tidal wave, my nephew was overtaken by bipolar depression again. He had no life preserver of any kind. He had long before not only quit the medications, but also seeing a psychiatrist or therapist. The risks to his life were voiced, and taken somewhat seriously, but it was too late.

About a month before we lost my nephew, he called me and said he wanted to take me out to lunch. I remember being somewhat unwell then, mood-wise, and almost refused the date. My husband urged me to accept, so I did. I'm so glad I did! So we went out to a Chinese restaurant, and for the first time he insisted on paying. I was touched! Then he asked if I would take a walk with him. Again, I almost refused, but decided to accept but say that it should be a short walk.

My nephew took me along a path in the woods. His favorite path towards his very favorite spot in the world. There, I took a photo of him, not knowing it would be the very last photo ever taken of him. I recall asking him to help drag "his old aunt" back up the steep slope. As we walked back towards his home, we heard peeper frogs and identified several birds. When I was about to part from him for home, I gave him a big hug and told him I loved him. That was not usual for us, because people in my family are not big huggers, and my nephew, perhaps because of Asperger's, wasn't usually comfortable with them.

A few weeks later, my nephew was hospitalized because of suicidal threats. At the hospital, they had to start his medications from scratch. He was only there three days before he convinced them he was OK and wanted to go home. Upon his discharge, the only medication he was on was Lithium, and he was only taking 300 mg. He was a 6' 6" man on only 300 mg of Lithium. One would think he would have needed at least 1,200 mg Lithium, and would need to stay safe on that (or other therapeutic dose) for at least a week or two, for minimal safety. But he came home...and then only days later, he was gone.

The loss of my nephew to bipolar depression has caused trauma for my family, and the disorder stole the life of a beautiful young man. Of course my sister, brother-in-law, and other nephew have needed intensive outpatient treatment because of the loss. My brother-in-law's opiod addiction grew worse. My father's alcohol addiction grew worse. I had/have to work my most extreme coping skills and have the above story going through my head causing "I should haves", "I could haves", "If only I had's" torture me, at times. Truth is, it was a tragedy! No one was at fault. Mental illness is just hell. But that's not to say that it must take people.

Attached is the photo I took of my nephew that last time I saw him. Just weeks before we lost him. He was alive. If only I could grab him in a hug again, but I can't. The loss of him, in a physical state, is permanent.

Oh, dear. I am deeply touched by your account of your nephew's illness and the crushing pain for you and your family with his loss.

We deeply appreciate your sharing your heart-breaking story. I hope your story will contribute to an increased consciousness of the importance of talking about suicide and suicide prevention.

My heart goes out to you, BirdDancer.

[TunedOut]

Originally Posted by BirdDancer

My nephew took me along a path in the woods. His favorite path towards his very favorite spot in the world.

Truth is, it was a tragedy! No one was at fault. Mental illness is just hell. But that's not to say that it must take people.

Attached is the photo I took of my nephew that last time I saw him. Just weeks before we lost him. He was alive. If only I could grab him in a hug again, but I can't. The loss of him, in a physical state, is permanent.

I am so sorry about your family's loss.

I truly hope that, with time, the tragic feelings of trauma will become less intense for all of you and you will begin to focus more on the happy moments that you were able to share.

I do not remember what your spiritual beliefs are but I believe that your nephew is still with you and his parents in spirit and may even visit all of you periodically. I hope that you all can find ways to heal and comfort yourself. I hope that his parents can find places to talk.

Sometimes having people in our family who have a mental illness or addiction can be very isolating. It is just not the kind of thing that we can talk to everyone about because, I think there are still some people and employers that have fears and misconceptions about mental illness. None of my employers know about my mental illness and I think it is for the best (in my case) not to bring it up but it would be wonderful for some if they could and feel safe about mentioning it (I know we have laws that protect people but law does not completely eradicate internal misconceptions and bias). Unfortunately, I would have to include myself in the category of having had an unhelpful reaction to a loved one in the middle of a crisis. Our society has so much more to learn in this area--myself included!

[~Christina]

Originally Posted by BirdDancer

I am happy that this thread was created and that it is permitted, with strict guidelines. It is such an important topic. As for my contribution, I feel my share is more as a person who lost a loved one to suicide than as a person who ever struggled with severe suicidal thoughts. That's not to say that during my depressions and mixed states that I didn't wish the pain to end. Of course I did. Also, during my mixed states, "calls for help" were common for me, and landed me in the hospital a couple times.

If anything I write below is not within the guidelines, I understand if it needs to be removed/reworked.

On June 10, 2017, my family lost a beautiful young man. He was only 24 years old. He was my sister's youngest son, and a nephew to me that I was particularly close to. He had, indeed, had a very rough childhood and youth because of bipolar depression. Perhaps his Asperger's Syndrome was also a contributing factor. Suicidal thoughts, threats, and attempts were not uncommon for him. The first case of this was when he was only about 7 years old. In a six year period, between 17 and 23, he was hospitalized 9 times, some of the times he received ECT. He went through the same types of issues with medications as many of us go through. Then maybe one (or one and half) years before the date mentioned, he decided to quit his medications cold turkey. Unlike me, who when I tried that a couple times, I immediately became terribly manic with psychosis, he had a lovely "honeymoon period", as I called it, for about a year. He lost a lot of weight and felt very well, and even started a job for the first time in his life. He developed a passion for photography, which he excelled at. All seemed just marvelous, but then that feeling started to fade suddenly. What caused it? There were absolutely no obvious triggers.

Like a tidal wave, my nephew was overtaken by bipolar depression again. He had no life preserver of any kind. He had long before not only quit the medications, but also seeing a psychiatrist or therapist. The risks to his life were voiced, and taken somewhat seriously, but it was too late.

A little over a month before we lost my nephew, he called me and said he wanted to take me out to lunch. I remember being somewhat unwell then, mood-wise, and almost refused the date. My husband urged me to accept, so I did. I'm so glad I did! So we went out to a Chinese restaurant, and for the first time he insisted on paying. I was touched! Then he asked if I would take a walk with him. Again, I almost refused, but decided to accept but say that it should be a short walk.

My nephew took me along a path in the woods. His favorite path towards his very favorite spot in the world. There, I took a photo of him, not knowing it would be the very last photo ever taken of him. I recall asking him to help drag "his old aunt" back up the steep slope. As we walked back towards his home, we heard peeper frogs and identified several birds. When I was about to part from him for home, I gave him a big hug and told him I loved him. That was not usual for us, because people in my family are not big huggers, and my nephew, perhaps because of Asperger's, wasn't usually comfortable with them.

A few weeks later, my nephew was hospitalized because of suicidal threats. At the hospital, they had to start his medications from scratch. He was only there three days before he convinced them he was OK and wanted to go home. Upon his discharge, the only medication he was on was Lithium, and he was only taking 300 mg. He was a 6' 6" man on only 300 mg of Lithium. One would think he would have needed at least 1,200 mg Lithium, and would need to stay safe on that (or other therapeutic dose) for at least a week or two, for minimal safety. But he came home...and then only days later, he was gone.

The loss of my nephew to bipolar depression has caused trauma for my family, and the disorder stole the life of a beautiful young man. Of course my sister, brother-in-law, and other nephew have needed intensive outpatient treatment because of the loss. My brother-in-law's opioid addiction grew worse. My father's alcohol addiction grew worse. I had/have to work my most extreme coping skills and have the above story going through my head causing "I should haves", "I could haves", "If only I had's" torture me, at times. It's affected my brother, too, and surely others. Truth is, it was a tragedy! No one was at fault. Mental illness is just hell. But that's not to say that it must take people.

Attached is the photo I took of my nephew that last time I saw him. Just weeks before we lost him. He was alive. If only I could grab him in a hug again, but I can't. The loss of him, in a physical state, is permanent.

My heart just breaks for you and your family Thank you for sharing such a tragedy. Such a loss. What a gift he gave you, a day and you have wonderful memories and a photo to cherish..

We all have a possibility to go from doing well to total despair in the blink of the eye. Your sharing could save some one in desperate need.

[FooZe]

Originally Posted by Crazy Hitch

Are we allowed to discuss previous personal experiences, as in we are not a threat now to ourselves or others? And when you say “plan” does that mean we are restricted from mentioning methods we may have used in the past?

Sorry to be late to the party but I need to be sure I understand peramatera.

Originally Posted by Wild Coyote

Thank you for your question, Crazy Hitch!

We are in unchartered waters. I am currently attempting to doublecheck with Fooze on your question, which is an excellent question. I hope to get back to you ASAP Thank you for your patience.

Sorry to be late to this discussion. Everywhere in these forums, including in this thread, we don't allow you to describe plans that you may be considering for ending your life. That would include, for example, "If I'm not feeling better by (date), that's it!" We'd probably let you mention in passing that at some time in the past you were feeling so low that you were considering (unspecified) suicide plans. Still, no details, please.

We normally don't allow methods or means of suicide to be discussed, even behind trigger tags. We'd expect such discussion to prove too upsetting for at least some other members who might have considered ending their own life and/or had a loved one end theirs.