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Default Sep 15, 2020 at 01:51 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by Breaking Dawn View Post
Most animals are vegetarians. But carrots & all the other vegetables want to live, too. And they don't eat anybody. Well, most of them don't. I must admit, I eat fish. And all the fish eat fish. Well, except krill are vegetarians.
I just planted a bunch of carrots with the intent to eat them. I like to think the appreciate their role in the circle of life, but maybe that's just wishful thinking
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Default Sep 15, 2020 at 02:14 PM
  #22
Thank you, @fern46. By the way, your name says you are a lovely plant.
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Default Sep 15, 2020 at 02:32 PM
  #23
I was a hardcore vegan for the animals - eco warrior for 10 years. before hitting burnout. It wasn't just the food, I wore or purchased no leather or wool, and only used cruelty-free toiletries and cosmetics. I was taking my own grocery bags to the store when no one else was - at least not where I lived.

My physical health was fine , however, in hindsight it was all a bit crazy-making.

Back in the day, and this still exists today, there is a lot of pressure on ethical vegans to be good representatives for the cause. This means remaining thin. Although the animals don't really give a toss if you're fat or thin, just that you're not eating them. There remains a lot of fat phobia within the vegan movement also lot of omnivores would just not take a fat vegan or vegetarian seriously So it it was often preached especially by the strictly vegan for health types, that we were doing a disservice to the animals if we allowed ourselves to get fat. Despite having gone vegan for the animals it was pretty easy for this little bipolar person, to get caught up in a lot of disordered eating practices in order to appear the "good vegan" ...not too thin, not too fat. For years I was caught in exercise bullimia and a never ending restrict/ binge cycle.

Going vegan for animals is great, but doing it for "health reasons" or in other words chasing thin and getting sucked into that healthism/diet culture aspect can be dangerous territory for people with mental illness and a history or disordered eating. And many vegans who are in it strictly for the animals can get sucked into this aspect as well.

Same with the eco-warrior approach, this can quickly become a crazy-making, obsessed/religiousity for those of us with mental health issues - it did for me.


TL;DR ... in my experience, folks with mental illness should tread very carefully when restricting what they eat, regardless of the reasons behind it.
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Default Sep 15, 2020 at 03:28 PM
  #24
Related to what lightly toasted said, I also found a strong "more vegetarian than thou" attitude that I found a real turn off. If you didn't conform to the same criteria, you must be taken to task for it. What? Not a vegan? Not macrobiotic? Not a fruitarian? Not strictly organic?

Maybe it was where I lived and/or where I worked (a natural food store), but it was annoying. Told a person or two to *** off.

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Default Sep 15, 2020 at 04:06 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by lightly toasted View Post
I was a hardcore vegan for the animals - eco warrior for 10 years. before hitting burnout. It wasn't just the food, I wore or purchased no leather or wool, and only used cruelty-free toiletries and cosmetics. I was taking my own grocery bags to the store when no one else was - at least not where I lived.

My physical health was fine , however, in hindsight it was all a bit crazy-making.

Back in the day, and this still exists today, there is a lot of pressure on ethical vegans to be good representatives for the cause. This means remaining thin. Although the animals don't really give a toss if you're fat or thin, just that you're not eating them. There remains a lot of fat phobia within the vegan movement also lot of omnivores would just not take a fat vegan or vegetarian seriously So it it was often preached especially by the strictly vegan for health types, that we were doing a disservice to the animals if we allowed ourselves to get fat. Despite having gone vegan for the animals it was pretty easy for this little bipolar person, to get caught up in a lot of disordered eating practices in order to appear the "good vegan" ...not too thin, not too fat. For years I was caught in exercise bullimia and a never ending restrict/ binge cycle.

Going vegan for animals is great, but doing it for "health reasons" or in other words chasing thin and getting sucked into that healthism/diet culture aspect can be dangerous territory for people with mental illness and a history or disordered eating. And many vegans who are in it strictly for the animals can get sucked into this aspect as well.

Same with the eco-warrior approach, this can quickly become a crazy-making, obsessed/religiousity for those of us with mental health issues - it did for me.


TL;DR ... in my experience, folks with mental illness should tread very carefully when restricting what they eat, regardless of the reasons behind it.
Sage counsel. Thanks.

The health reasons I was referring to had nothing to do with thinness or thickness. My dad is 88, but prior to him, every single male on his side of the family died of heart disease by 50. I run 6 miles a day and ride my bike 26-50 miles a day. For purposes of vascular and brain health.

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Default Sep 15, 2020 at 04:30 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by bpcyclist View Post
.

The health reasons I was referring to had nothing to do with thinness or thickness. My dad is 88, but prior to him, every single male on his side of the family died of heart disease by 50.
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Oh for sure, I hear ya. People with a genetic predisposition gotta do what they gotta do.

I'm speaking to my own experience, and for those who are prone to disordered eating and obsession to the detriment of their mental health in the name of a good cause.
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Default Sep 15, 2020 at 04:58 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by lightly toasted View Post
I was a hardcore vegan for the animals - eco warrior for 10 years. before hitting burnout. It wasn't just the food, I wore or purchased no leather or wool, and only used cruelty-free toiletries and cosmetics. I was taking my own grocery bags to the store when no one else was - at least not where I lived.

My physical health was fine , however, in hindsight it was all a bit crazy-making.

Back in the day, and this still exists today, there is a lot of pressure on ethical vegans to be good representatives for the cause. This means remaining thin. Although the animals don't really give a toss if you're fat or thin, just that you're not eating them. There remains a lot of fat phobia within the vegan movement also lot of omnivores would just not take a fat vegan or vegetarian seriously So it it was often preached especially by the strictly vegan for health types, that we were doing a disservice to the animals if we allowed ourselves to get fat. Despite having gone vegan for the animals it was pretty easy for this little bipolar person, to get caught up in a lot of disordered eating practices in order to appear the "good vegan" ...not too thin, not too fat. For years I was caught in exercise bullimia and a never ending restrict/ binge cycle.

Going vegan for animals is great, but doing it for "health reasons" or in other words chasing thin and getting sucked into that healthism/diet culture aspect can be dangerous territory for people with mental illness and a history or disordered eating. And many vegans who are in it strictly for the animals can get sucked into this aspect as well.

Same with the eco-warrior approach, this can quickly become a crazy-making, obsessed/religiousity for those of us with mental health issues - it did for me.

TL;DR ... in my experience, folks with mental illness should tread very carefully when restricting what they eat, regardless of the reasons behind it.
Great post and it is wisely based upon experience. The reasons you have illustrated are exactly why I don't "advertise" being vegetarian. I am overweight from psych meds, even though the food I eat is very healthy, and I do not overeat. The meds have just really screwed with my metabolism. When I was initially veg. I was thin, but I'd always been thin. That cult-like movement that disguises eating disorders gets very weird. Lots of denial.

I'm vegetarian (with the very, very rare exception) because it genuinely bothers me to eat animals. I also have a crap family history of cardiac disease and stroke, which scares the heck out of me. But I don't talk with people about being vegetarian. It's very personal, to me. I'm not a club member, card carrying veg.

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Default Sep 15, 2020 at 05:07 PM
  #28
I've been a vegetarian for 30 years now. But I include salmon, tuna, eggs and milk.

I have the fish because of the fish oil, omaga 3 think.

I was vegan for 2 years but found it hard to manage, plus I lost a lot of weight. I got too low for my bmi so I gave it up.

I've been vegetarian longer than I've been bipolar so I don't know the effect on stability. I've had my ups and downs but have been depressed for 3 years now if that says anything.

I switched because I felt better after a vegetarian meal so I thought I could feel better all the time if I switched, and I do.

I'm not opposed to eating animals but I am opposed to the scale at which we do it. Being vegetarian reduces the number of animals raised and proceed by a little so it's my way of reducing demand.

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Default Sep 17, 2020 at 10:04 PM
  #29
I have been a vegetarian for about 20 years. My reason for going vegetarian is because I don`t want any animals to be slaughtered for me. I don`t ever crave meat because I know where it comes from. I cook vegetarian meals for my family and they enjoy it too.

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Default Sep 17, 2020 at 10:14 PM
  #30
Back in the day co-ops were holes in the wall and friendly. Places to get cheap good wholesome bulk food. I find today’s co-ops taken over by holy-er than tho types. Whole Foods took it to extreme and priced most Co-ops out of the zone. I really miss the co-op I used to frequent in the 70’s and 80’s.

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Default Sep 18, 2020 at 11:58 AM
  #31
100% vegetarian here; not vegan though. I have been considering veganism, but I have a hard time giving up dairy within certain products completely (for instance, I eat pizza) , but I do use Almond Milk instead for cereal, etc. I have a hard time when it comes to finding those hidden ingredients in different foods that makes a food un-vegan. Some day maybe though.

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Default Sep 18, 2020 at 12:44 PM
  #32
Like Vermozza, I loved animals and didn't crave meat.

But once my bipolar shifted, and I became more depressive and my hypomania became dysphoric and the euphoric hypomanic episodes were replaced with horrible mixed episodes, I just stopped giving a sh**. Seroquel made me crave food I had not eaten in years. But even once I stopped seroquel I found it difficult to return to veganism, and I have made hundreds of attempts over the years. It just won't stick anymore. I still hate that we kill and cause animals to suffer for food, but there's this exhaustion I still feel, this small bit of deadness in my heart, that just can't muster the will to go and stay vegan again...this is just me, and I'm not explaining it very well; sorry.

I think today, if someone with mental illness wished to go whole foods plant-based for their health, or vegan for the animals...maybe there is more sane and rational support nowadays. Or maybe the millions of opinions on the internet make it harder. I don't know. I think going vegan in my day, (pre-internet) it was easier, maybe it was harder. I really couldn't say.

I remember Bill Clinton eliminated animal products for his heart condition and it helped, but I think he's loosened up a bit to a more Dean Ornish sort of thing, and includes fish in his diet. Dean Ornish was originally preaching no animal products and no fat at all - this was back in the early 90s.

I'm very sorry that my original post was discouraging. I just wanted to say for everyone it's not so easy. But having bipolar disorder is not necessarily going to make a dietary change problematic for everyone that is afflicted
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Default Sep 18, 2020 at 05:26 PM
  #33
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Like Vermozza, I loved animals and didn't crave meat.

But once my bipolar shifted, and I became more depressive and my hypomania became dysphoric and the euphoric hypomanic episodes were replaced with horrible mixed episodes, I just stopped giving a sh**. Seroquel made me crave food I had not eaten in years. But even once I stopped seroquel I found it difficult to return to veganism, and I have made hundreds of attempts over the years. It just won't stick anymore. I still hate that we kill and cause animals to suffer for food, but there's this exhaustion I still feel, this small bit of deadness in my heart, that just can't muster the will to go and stay vegan again...this is just me, and I'm not explaining it very well; sorry.

I think today, if someone with mental illness wished to go whole foods plant-based for their health, or vegan for the animals...maybe there is more sane and rational support nowadays. Or maybe the millions of opinions on the internet make it harder. I don't know. I think going vegan in my day, (pre-internet) it was easier, maybe it was harder. I really couldn't say.

I remember Bill Clinton eliminated animal products for his heart condition and it helped, but I think he's loosened up a bit to a more Dean Ornish sort of thing, and includes fish in his diet. Dean Ornish was originally preaching no animal products and no fat at all - this was back in the early 90s.

I'm very sorry that my original post was discouraging. I just wanted to say for everyone it's not so easy. But having bipolar disorder is not necessarily going to make a dietary change problematic for everyone that is afflicted

Your post wasn't discouraging, it was realistic (in my experience, anyway).

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Default Sep 18, 2020 at 06:19 PM
  #34
There is some fairly recent data that being vegan can aggravate depression in us. Was a bit concerned.

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Default Sep 19, 2020 at 02:18 PM
  #35
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There is some fairly recent data that being vegan can aggravate depression in us. Was a bit concerned.

I think this might be the case for me. I add eggs and dairy yogurt, a bit of tuna to my diet for a few weeks and my mood and energy improve. This could be correlation not causation though - I mean maybe I chose those foods for myself because I was already starting to feel better?

But this is interesting that you've mentioned data you've found. Bpcyclist,could you possibly provide a link?
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Default Sep 19, 2020 at 02:21 PM
  #36
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I think this might be the case for me. I add eggs and dairy yogurt, a bit of tuna to my diet for a few weeks and my mood and energy improve. This could be correlation not causation though - I mean maybe I chose those foods for myself because I was already starting to feel better?

But this is interesting that you've mentioned data you've found. Bpcyclist,could you possibly provide a link?
Yep. I'll hunt it down.

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Default Sep 19, 2020 at 02:31 PM
  #37
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Yep. I'll hunt it down.
I'm experimenting with diet, hoping it will help (even if only a little)

Tonight I had milk with our meal instead of wine.

Papa bear had red wine....


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Default Sep 19, 2020 at 03:05 PM
  #38
Oh gosh! I can't do booze at all. At all. Even it small amounts it makes me feel wretched for days. It's been two years since I poked that bear.

I think that could be an interesting thread on it's own, Fuzzybear. I sort of assume that alcohol is disastrous for anyone with bipolar disorder, but maybe not. Maybe there are folks who can handle a glass of wine now and then.
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Default Sep 19, 2020 at 05:12 PM
  #39
Okay, there was a 2018 study called the Constances Cohort in MDPI that showed a strong correlation

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Default Sep 20, 2020 at 06:07 AM
  #40
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Meat was definitely different back in the day.
Dad was hunting a lot and we grew up on a farm.

I always thought it was weird to eat pigs or boars when we pet cats and roll our eyes at the Chinese for eating dogs when we eat deer. And so on. Melanie Joy calls it carnism.

So I'd say I'm an ethical vegan — when I was eight I used to say I'd like to stand on my head when I'll be eighty.
I don't see differences between animals and humans. We're primates belonging to the same kingdom, Animalia.
Historically we ate animals to survive, hence why we're omnivores, but our anatomy proves to be more closely related to that of herbivores. See comparative anatomy.
Dairy is addictive because of the casein. It's worse on the body than eating a whole ribeye steak. This is the main reason why vegetarians can't shift to a plant-based, vegan diet.
In the old China Study by Dr. Colin Campbell (I say old because China's changed its diet significantly over the decades), a diet absent in animal protein is advised for better health.
Dairy is addictive? Like as addictive as opiates and alcohol?

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