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#21
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Thinking through it, I didn't mean it like that, but yes, I can see what you're saying. I do have great difficulty with people who are so overwhelming that subtle hints don't work. I really hate interpersonal conflict and I often try to "polite" my way through it for far too long. I tend to be fairly open about my personal life and that was probably seen as an invitation. I can see how we both triggered ingrained responses to things. He went from zero to sixty overnight after knowing him for six months and I know that I have a pattern of subtle hints, more directness and then passive-aggression when I'm not being heard. In friendly settings, I'm very polite, kind and try to be well mannered. It's that southern belle upbringing that I had. Looking back, I can see how the subtle hints were not the path I needed to take then. It was a pattern that worked for me in the dating world where guys were fishing too and didn't want to waste time on someone not interested. For this guy, by the time I got to "no" which was several months after he said we were going to be together, it was probably too late. I told him directly that I was probably the worst possible woman for him to want to be with since I have those behaviors which trigger him. After directness didn't work and before I knew what he was wrestling with I went all passive-aggressive, trying to drive him off, intentionally doing everything I knew he hated, like working out with or having lunch with male friends and then telling him all about it. For me, that normally got guys to go away and look elsewhere. The more he would rage and sob, the more I would do that. I kept hoping for the, you know what Alice, you don't deserve me, bye. On the other hand, his bull in the china shop approach to me was certainly triggering. Nothing in my purse of coping mechanisms worked and he bulled through every strategy I had. But again, thank you for the honest feedback. I do think back on what happened a lot and how I could have approached it better. I think the friendship is likely unsalvageable and I've just been reading his texts and listening to the voice mails but not responding. |
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Fuzzybear, giddykitty, medievalbushman, TishaBuv
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#22
Moving forward you’ll handle it better. Firm consistency while being gentle with letting him down. Tell him you have to end the relationship and no amount of his texting will change your mind. You are sorry for having given him any mixed messages, but you do not feel the same way about him as he does for you. Then don’t respond. Break his way of contacting you. I hope he doesn’t really become a dangerous stalker.
I’ve had to go up against some of the most obnoxious, pushy people and stand my ground. I found the only thing that works is firm, consistent resistance and then ignore. They all eventually gave up. Please be careful, though. His level of emotional disturbance is concerning. __________________ "And don't say it hasn't been a little slice of heaven, 'cause it hasn't!" . About Me--T |
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ARaven0137, Fuzzybear, giddykitty
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ARaven0137, Fuzzybear, giddykitty
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#23
This individual is emotionally abusing you. And you are letting him do this to you when you interact with him.
It's concerning to me why you continue to engage at all. You need to cut him off completely and that's it, there is no relationship at all with this individual that you can possibly have. How much proof do you need to understand that? Let him blow himself up or whatever. Your are pushing a mountain that simply cannot be moved. The other thing is that you really do not know if this is borderline, it could be a few things, even something that is mixed in with OCD because he is compulsive. He may also have something that is accompanied with psychotic features or episodes. His mental state is simply beyond you and it's safest for you to stop interacting with him completely. Last edited by Open Eyes; Mar 21, 2020 at 09:39 PM.. |
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ARaven0137
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ARaven0137, MsLady, WovenGalaxy
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#24
That's very true. He does hit almost all of the BPD criteria as far as I've experienced from the threats of self harm to the emotional dysregulation. I did fall into the dysfunctional dance of him threatening himself and having that evoke my nurturing instinct and concern for his safety and then rushing to his aid. I haven't responded in 36 hours now so I just have to stay strong. I have this fear that he'll just show up on my doorstep like a lost puppy. I spoke to his therapist some time ago to tell her what was going on since he glosses over things with her...or did since he doesn't think he needs therapy. She seemed to brush me off so I did tell her in my snarky manner that an aviatrix who just happens to have an MS in clinical psychology and read up on BPD was not adequate to take care of his therapeutic needs and that maybe she should do it. You're right, his mental state is simply beyond my ability to do anything about.
I have a lot of difficulty processing emotions so it takes me longer to get through something like this that was so overwhelming. |
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Fuzzybear, medievalbushman
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#25
It's possible he does exhibit BPD traits but that could be mixed with other psyhcological issues too. He is obsessive and can get violent though which is dangerous for you to be around and he may also be bipolar. Yes, he may end up on your doorstep which is extremely concerning and potentially dangerous for you. He does know where you live. Can you afford to move somewhere else for a while where he can't find you?
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ARaven0137
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ARaven0137, MsLady
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#26
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He does. Unfortunately no, I don't have anywhere else to go at the moment. I thought about taking a long work trip overseas, but corona shut those down. My friends and family know the basics of what's going on and they're on the lookout. I do have a fairly robust security system. He has jokingly stated things like trying to sneak into my house, which does scare me. I don't think he was really joking. There's one weird thing that he keeps coming back to, over and over. I'm not sure if this is part of any disorder or perhaps cultural. From the time he went from 0 to 60 to the voice mails and texts and emails he sends he keeps harping on his dream of being intimate with a white woman, particularly wanting to "cuck" a white man with a white woman. I spent a fair amount of time in Asia and the Middle East and blonde white women were the rage. I do seem to draw some winners. I dated a guy once (and snuck out) who seemed nice and intelligent. He was a Ph.D candidate in engineering. Withing ten minutes of dinner he began asking detailed questions about my martial arts training. He then asked if I like "beating up men." Then, he asked if I would beat him up in a pit of mud. I started laughing, thinking he was joking, but he was serious and I could tell he was excited. I went to the bathroom and didn't stop there. The guy tracked me for five years... I'm at 48 hours and holding strong. Thank you for the support. It feels like AA. Hi, I'm Alice, I haven't responded to L in 48 hours. |
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Fuzzybear, medievalbushman
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#27
There must be something about you that attracts men that are insecure about themselves and need a certain kind of woman they can control in some way. Or, something that attracts you to that type of male. Anyway, keep up with the no contact no matter how hard he tries to contact you. Take your power back, do not hand him any more power.
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ARaven0137
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ARaven0137
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#28
My best friend told me that I'm too kind and that I'm a good listener. I know it's to make up for when I was younger and was a total...witch. I still have a lot of guilt over that. Even though I'm not very emotional, I have a strong nurturing instinct and I do fall for a sob story. I prefer strong, well established men as romantic interests, but I do spend a lot of time with those down and out and try to be helpful. My problem is I know what I like, but I tend to settle for who wants me. 60 hours now!
But, this came over the wire. I read it, but did not respond. 60 hours! Quote:
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Fuzzybear, medievalbushman, WovenGalaxy
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#29
Does he live near you or is this just an online relationship? I’m concerned that he will show up at your door. Why would he only send a barrage of texts and not come over in person?
Did you explain to him you never wanted to be his girlfriend, you felt he roped you into something you didn’t want but didn’t know how to stop? It sounds like he thinks you are his girlfriend and feels like you ghosted him. How did you end it? __________________ "And don't say it hasn't been a little slice of heaven, 'cause it hasn't!" . About Me--T |
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#30
He lives in a nearby town. It's kind of a dangerous area, actually. And he has no means of transportation other than a bicycle that's falling apart, so too far for him to ride unless he uses the bus. I use to go and meet him and a group of friends before things devolved. He was initially a friend of friends, whom he alienated enmasse with similar behavior. Of that group, I was the only woman.
I'm definitely concerned about that too. It's online now. My friends and family told him he was no longer welcome after the ranting outbursts and a bunch of choice names he called us. Every one of that group and my friends and family are saying the same thing. It probably happened a little late in the game but all through January and into February when he went to jail I was telling him no, I need space, I need a break from you, go back to therapy, you need help from someone other than me. Mid last year when I watched all of our group fall away from him I felt sorry for him and initially had only his side. It got down to just he and I and him telling me that I was the only one who cared, the only one who stuck around, the only one who understood him, his family is a mess, etc. Of course, that pinged my nurturing instinct and I said I was there for him and wanted to help. Nearly overnight it went to him saying he loved me, he wants to get married, I'm going to be his baby factory, etc. I thought it was a joke and didn't say no. I went into my dance around and deflect mode. But, I would go when he needed someone to listen when I was able to. By about November it had escalated into the control and possession issues where he began making demands about who I saw, what I wore, when I went out. I told him he had no basis for making such demands as I'm in a relationship and that I was an independent woman and could see whom and wear what I wanted. This started the ranting tirades of him filling up my voice mail, sending dozens of emails with screaming or explicit videos of himself and texts with the same. He would also make crazy demands that I use his explicit videos and pics for myself. I saw the emotional dysregulation and the intense fear of abandonment, along with the splitting where I was either an angel or a demon. Whenever I would tell him that I had to go or that a relationship was not a good idea, he went into the threats of self harm and suicide and I backed down and just let the subject pass. Around December was when I went into passive-aggressive mode. It started when I had the opportunity to attend a triathlon training clinic, which was run by a male friend. L went through the roof, accusing me of cheating, leaving him, etc and that he was going to walk in front of a truck if I attended, so I backed down and didn't go. He then made demands of how I dress and that I cut ties with all of my male friends, leave my relationship and take him in and support him. That was when I went total passive-aggressive. I dressed how I wanted, I worked out with guys, I had lunch with guys, etc. I tried every other tactic that I had in my bag. I pointed out that he was in no way an equal which was what I would want. How would he support himself. He would just be a beggar with no money or income. My family already despised him. My friends hated him. I was the worst possible pick for him. I'm so far out of his league that I may as well be on Venus. Nothing worked. Even his former friends who were still my friends told him he was delusional and to just find someone in his own area who was more his speed. It was probably mid to late January when it dawned on me that he may have a personality disorder and that I was probably feeding into the behavior rather than convincing him to back away. The wall for me was when he would threaten self harm and I would back down and say we'd discuss it later. I'm sure he knew that was my break point to stop saying no to him. Up to then, my friends and I thought he was just plumb loco and that no one gets that bent out of shape over minor things. That was when I pulled out my old psych text books, started researching and that led me here. It was then that I reached out to his former therapist and begged him to go back. The night he got arrested I got voicemail and texts at 330am to come rescue him and to bail him out and that I had to save him and dump everyone in my life and take him in. When I got it that morning I sent him a text and email wishing him good luck and that I was going to block and delete all of his accounts. I told him I needed to be away from the drama as it was too much for me and that I hoped he would come through it ok. I think that was at the end of January. I think he got out and his case was dismissed towards the beginning of March and here I am. |
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ArtleyWilkins
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#31
Lucky for you he only has a bicycle and I think the busses aren’t running due to the pandemic.
I had similar drama where the guy threatened self harm, but I just told them they need help and if they do it, it’s not my fault, and I didn’t let them manipulate me. Would he really walk in front of a bus? Most likely, no. If he did, then he was really sick. If he’d hurt himself that badly, what might he do to you? You are dealing with very scary stuff. I’d keep someone around me at all times for the next few months and continue to not engage with him. If he was arrested, he is capable of being dangerous. If you have a pattern of getting involved with this level of drama, I’d also see a therapist to find out more about yourself. I’ve been diagnosed with borderline traits and emotional dysregulation disorder. I don’t have any behavior to this kind of level. I’m confused about how much is within me and how much is caused by my relationships. But that’s another story. Firstly, you never had romantic feelings for him. So, it seems pretty logical to get rid of him. Making you his “baby making machine”?! Oh my! Very scary. __________________ "And don't say it hasn't been a little slice of heaven, 'cause it hasn't!" . About Me--T |
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ARaven0137
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Open Eyes
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#32
'Effin 'ell! I know you know how to take care of yourself, but... please be careful. He doesn't have reliable wheels, yes, but that doesn't bar him from hitch hiking. I don't know how his mental illness drives him, but he might go to lengths well beyond what most people in his position would consider. I don't know what your personal measures are, and it's really none of our business, but I hope you're making it a habit to pack some form of force multiplier.
I'm glad that you've made it as long as you have without communicating with him. You did what YOU could do in trying to get through to him and helping him, now stay strong! __________________ Oo-de-lally, oo-de-lally, golly what a day |
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ARaven0137
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#33
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I'm definitely going to take your advice. I have more than a few male friends willing to look after me and a few very tough women. I can imagine that it would be difficult to separate what comes from within and what comes from the relationship dynamic. Oh, the whole baby factory thing. Wow. I'm happy with my two cats right now and my career comes first. His views on the "relationship" that we would have was positively medieval. I kept telling him to find a girl that would meet his needs and wanted to just stay home, make babies and serve his every need. Again, I'm the worst possible choice for him. |
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medievalbushman
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TishaBuv
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#34
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I did some tameshigiri today just for stress relief and for a little practice. YouTube I have a nice katate gyakugesa cut (one handed upward cut) from the draw. The one I have to work on is the yoko ichimonji cut or lateral cut. It requires a lot of rotation from the waist. He does know that I have a lot of friends and am very proficient, but I cannot let my guard down for a while. |
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medievalbushman
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#35
Please learn that when someone is drowning in their mental illness issues like this, it's like trying to rescue someone from drowning, they can literally pull you under and drown you while thrashing around.
You are simply not qualified to handle this challenge. It's not a way to try and make up for how you were in your past either. You are not being mean by cutting him off either. It doesn't matter what he says either, he is a very mentally ill individual, he is clearly drowning and dangerous and extremely destructive. |
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ARaven0137
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WovenGalaxy
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#36
That was good advice. I actually saw a counselor this past weekend. I'm going through a lot of other junk on top of this and have to admit that I need some help with it.
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WovenGalaxy
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#37
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What you described is exactly what it feels like and what I told my counselor this past weekend. I even told his therapist the same thing and how I'm not qualified to help him through this. When I told him that, he said his usual, "You're the only one who can help me. You. It has to be you!" I'm at 84 hours and holding. It's getting better. It has to be a thing, but I initially found a void in my life without the drama. I suspect this is what abused spouses go through. |
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Fuzzybear, giddykitty, medievalbushman, WovenGalaxy
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#38
I can well imagine. Similar for me for different reasons, but when you cut something out, it's hard to know what to do with yourself with that time you normally spend managing that thing.
__________________ Oo-de-lally, oo-de-lally, golly what a day |
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#39
I know, even bad things sometimes leave a void when they go away. 96 hours!
Thank heavens my voice mail is full. I just watched several dozen videos on email and text of him sobbing, laughing, ranting, giggling...and making out with the camera. I threw up a little in my mouth. ...when having the number one engine start thunking on taxi is the least dramatic part of my day... It's like when I go into the office cesspool and say that the 35 knot crosswind landing in a storm is the safest part of my day. 96 hours! I'm kind of punchy so I'm going to make a song...96 hours of no response, 96 hours of nope. |
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Fuzzybear, giddykitty, medievalbushman
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#40
If you have all this on your phone, I am wondering if it's enough to get a restraining order so he stops calling and sending you texts and creepy videos.
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ARaven0137
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giddykitty, WovenGalaxy
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