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Default Apr 14, 2017 at 10:15 AM
  #1
My experience may not nicely fit a childhood-emotional-neglect framework, but posting here may nevertheless be valuable.

Among other things, I suffer from long-term depression and anxiety. I have wrestled with the question why my conditions have resisted treatment and persisted while so many other people have reached complete or substantial remission of theirs. Am I not trying hard enough? Is something undermining my efforts?

I believe it is possible the intractability of my depression is in part due to my early upbringing. My parents did not have a happy marriage. My mother was self-absorbed, my father preoccupied with work – maybe it was his refuge from my mother. In hindsight, I think Mother treated me both as “golden child” and “scapegoat,” switching from one to the other when it suited her needs. I was simultaneously her ally against my father and also the cause of her own unhappiness – I was the thing that anchored her in an unhappy union. My parents had no other children. I discovered much later they discussed divorce, but they never followed through on it and never separated.

I suspect I early came to believe I was responsible for my parents’ happiness or lack thereof, and I failed at this fundamental human responsibility. Now, that sounds ridiculous to me as an aging adult, but it was normal and right to me as a young child. The simple realization of the irrationality is woefully insufficient to cancel the early social programming.

One of the results of this upbringing was, in my case, poor or insufficient socialization. Despite a compliant personality, “fitting in” was not a strength. Prolonged social misadjustment (I don’t believe it rose to maladjustment) stressed my higher susceptibility to depression and anxiety. Eventually the stresses overcame whatever limited resilience I had. I crashed years ago and have never recovered. High compliance with treatment may contribute to stability at a low level of function, but not much else.

Although I’m still seeking insights, I doubt any insights will restore what I have lost.

Special thanks to the friend who drew my attention to this new forum!

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Default Apr 14, 2017 at 10:38 AM
  #2
(((((((((( Rohag ))))))))))

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Default Apr 14, 2017 at 05:53 PM
  #3
(((((((( Rohag )))))))))

I can relate to quite a bit of what you've shared here..

My parents also had a very unhappy marriage, I believe the paternal parental unit had NPD and perhaps the mother too

I also have no siblings..

I "failed" to keep them together. I was only 5 years old when "she" (the Step Unit) came on the scene. It was my fault, I wasn't "good enough" to keep them together

Have you read Malignant Self-love
Narcissism Revisited
By Sam Vaknin

I wonder if your mother (maternal unit ) suffered from NPD? (Narcissistic Personality Disorder)

I can't believe that you "don't try hard enough" (from all you've shared with me and on the forums)

Your maternal unit had an inability to love, imo.

I'll be interested in other replies to this thread. Thanks for sharing ((((((( Rohag )))))))

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Default Apr 14, 2017 at 07:30 PM
  #4
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Originally Posted by Rohag View Post
My experience may not nicely fit a childhood-emotional-neglect framework, but posting here may nevertheless be valuable.

Among other things, I suffer from long-term depression and anxiety. I have wrestled with the question why my conditions have resisted treatment and persisted while so many other people have reached complete or substantial remission of theirs. Am I not trying hard enough? Is something undermining my efforts?

I believe it is possible the intractability of my depression is in part due to my early upbringing. My parents did not have a happy marriage. My mother was self-absorbed, my father preoccupied with work – maybe it was his refuge from my mother. In hindsight, I think Mother treated me both as “golden child” and “scapegoat,” switching from one to the other when it suited her needs. I was simultaneously her ally against my father and also the cause of her own unhappiness – I was the thing that anchored her in an unhappy union. My parents had no other children. I discovered much later they discussed divorce, but they never followed through on it and never separated.

I suspect I early came to believe I was responsible for my parents’ happiness or lack thereof, and I failed at this fundamental human responsibility. Now, that sounds ridiculous to me as an aging adult, but it was normal and right to me as a young child. The simple realization of the irrationality is woefully insufficient to cancel the early social programming.

One of the results of this upbringing was, in my case, poor or insufficient socialization. Despite a compliant personality, “fitting in” was not a strength. Prolonged social misadjustment (I don’t believe it rose to maladjustment) stressed my higher susceptibility to depression and anxiety. Eventually the stresses overcame whatever limited resilience I had. I crashed years ago and have never recovered. High compliance with treatment may contribute to stability at a low level of function, but not much else.

Although I’m still seeking insights, I doubt any insights will restore what I have lost.

Special thanks to the friend who drew my attention to this new forum!
Wow, sounds a lot like my childhood, but my parents split up around age 10. I'm glad they did. Or else he may have killed one or both of us.
Glad you are here to share your story.

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Default Apr 14, 2017 at 08:54 PM
  #5
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Originally Posted by Fuzzybear View Post
Have you read Malignant Self-love
Narcissism Revisited
By Sam Vaknin
I have read several online articles by Sam Vaknin, and he also has videos on YouTube. Regrettably, I haven't read Malignant Self-Love.

I do have to consider the possibility Mother had a personality disorder, and NPD is a candidate. Through interlibrary loan I was able to read Children of the Self-Absorbed by Nina W. Brown. Material there and the official criteria for NPD found in the DSM partially describe my mother, perhaps more than partially. I am not fully comfortable with my memories and I mistrust them.

Will I ever be satisfied with my efforts? Can I be satisfied with my efforts?

Thank you, Fuzzybear.

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Default Apr 15, 2017 at 05:52 AM
  #6
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Will I ever be satisfied with my efforts? Can I be satisfied with my efforts?
That you are asking suggests you do not think so. Are you concerned about self-sabotage? Your First Step toward Ending Self-Sabotage

Have you defined what you would like from life? Without knowing, how does one establish the actions required to achieve what one desires?

Therapists have asked me similar questions. I had no idea at first.

“If you haven’t the strength to impose your own terms upon life, then you must accept the terms it offers you.” ~T.S. Eliot “What a child doesn't receive he can seldom later give.” ~P. D. James

These articles helped me direct my efforts for a better life:

Definition of Wellness - Dimensions of Wellness
Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, Core Processes, Mindfulness and ACT
50 Signs of Good Therapy
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...y-clients-make

I wish you well.

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Default Apr 15, 2017 at 09:28 AM
  #7
has the Mother programmed you to never be fully satisfied with your efforts?

I can relate

(((((((( Rohag ))))))))

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Default Apr 15, 2017 at 09:31 AM
  #8
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Originally Posted by Rohag View Post
I have read several online articles by Sam Vaknin, and he also has videos on YouTube. Regrettably, I haven't read Malignant Self-Love.

I do have to consider the possibility Mother had a personality disorder, and NPD is a candidate. Through interlibrary loan I was able to read Children of the Self-Absorbed by Nina W. Brown. Material there and the official criteria for NPD found in the DSM partially describe my mother, perhaps more than partially. I am not fully comfortable with my memories and I mistrust them.

Will I ever be satisfied with my efforts? Can I be satisfied with my efforts?

Thank you, Fuzzybear.


I had meant to quote this in my post...

I was never "pretty enough" and "never good enough"

How can we undo the program of "never good enough"?

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Default Apr 15, 2017 at 09:47 AM
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Rohag you're not alone. My parents had a very unhappy marriage. My mother, I think, has narcissistic personality disorder in addition to being a borderline and bipolar. My father, was the codependent who enabled my mother to act irrational all the time. He'd try to reason with her, point out to her that she was acting irrational, being neglectful to her children but she'd just rage at him all the time, to the point where he just gave up on their marriage and they were roommates until he died from cancer. He was neglectful to his children too, because he'd given up on his marriage and his life. So, here you have three small children with no emotional support system, whose parents emotionally and verbally abuse them instead of teach them how to emotionally connect with people through their own actions. They essentially raised three emotionally neglected children. Although my two siblings married and had children I never did. And I'm glad because I'm certain I would have chosen a man who physically and emotionally neglects and abuses me, like both of my parents did. My previous romantic relationships' common denominator is that all the men were narcissists. So, I don't date anymore out of fear that I can find a man who isn't a narcissist.
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Default Apr 15, 2017 at 10:39 AM
  #10
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Originally Posted by Trace14 View Post
...my parents split up around age 10. I'm glad they did. Or else he may have killed one or both of us.
Wow - I'm glad they split!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzybear View Post
has the Mother programmed you to never be fully satisfied with your efforts?
I can relate ...
I was never "pretty enough" and "never good enough"
How can we undo the program of "never good enough"?
My observation of myself and of others who have posted in many different PC forums is that "early socialization" or "programming" is rarely if ever completely overcome. I'm glad for those (few?) who do free themselves from it, and I'm happy for those who find some way to leverage their unfortunate experiences to produce something positive for them.
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...he just gave up on their marriage and they were roommates until he died from cancer. He was neglectful to his children too, because he'd given up on his marriage and his life. ... They essentially raised three emotionally neglected children.
I'm sorry; this is most sad. If I may ask (please feel free to ignore the questions), when did you realize your family was "dysfunctional?" When did you come to understand your mother had these personality disorders?

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Default Apr 15, 2017 at 12:50 PM
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Wow - I'm glad they split!

My observation of myself and of others who have posted in many different PC forums is that "early socialization" or "programming" is rarely if ever completely overcome. I'm glad for those (few?) who do free themselves from it, and I'm happy for those who find some way to leverage their unfortunate experiences to produce something positive for them.

I'm sorry; this is most sad. If I may ask (please feel free to ignore the questions), when did you realize your family was "dysfunctional?" When did you come to understand your mother had these personality disorders?
Rohag, I knew my family was dysfunctional (but I didn't know the terminology b/c I was so young) by the time I was eight years old. I learned about personality disorders in college during a psychology 101 class I took. I knew that my parents were bad parents, but I didn't know what label to use, that aptly described the psychological and emotional abuse they inflicted on myself and my two siblings. Once I figured it out, it opened a floodgate for me of my memories of past abuse, and helped me process those memories in a therapeutic way.
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Default Apr 15, 2017 at 01:38 PM
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I knew my family was dysfunctional (but I didn't know the terminology b/c I was so young) by the time I was eight years old. I learned about personality disorders in college during a psychology 101 class I took.
I was far more naive. (How much my naiveté is a function of my upbringing is another subject.) It was not until I was a young adult that I suspected my parents' relationship was anything but normal. It took me even longer to consider my mother might have what I now see as a personality disorder.

Some of the important people in my life - grandparents and a few friends - also influenced me to share their view of the sacredness of parents and my duty to honor them. Modifying my views and attitudes has been long and unsettling.

Thank you, Cielpur.

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Default Apr 15, 2017 at 02:06 PM
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Wow - I'm glad they split!

My observation of myself and of others who have posted in many different PC forums is that "early socialization" or "programming" is rarely if ever completely overcome. I'm glad for those (few?) who do free themselves from it, and I'm happy for those who find some way to leverage their unfortunate experiences to produce something positive for them.

I'm sorry; this is most sad. If I may ask (please feel free to ignore the questions), when did you realize your family was "dysfunctional?" When did you come to understand your mother had these personality disorders?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohag View Post
I was far more naive. (How much my naiveté is a function of my upbringing is another subject.) It was not until I was a young adult that I suspected my parents' relationship was anything but normal. It took me even longer to consider my mother might have what I now see as a personality disorder.

Some of the important people in my life - grandparents and a few friends - also influenced me to share their view of the sacredness of parents and my duty to honor them. Modifying my views and attitudes has been long and unsettling.

Thank you, Cielpur.
I understand. You were forced to adopt a belief system about parenting, that conflicted with the reality you lived as a child. Now, as an adult, you need to process that all before you can modify it. I'm still processing the damage my mother has done (and continues to do, as she's still living).

It is very difficult to undo the damage done by narcissistic parents. But it can be accomplished. It's a matter of finding the right support system, connecting with the best resource materials (books, articles, blogs, videos) and taking in as much information as possible about the steps needed, to heal from damage done by narcissistic parenting.
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Default Jul 14, 2017 at 03:04 AM
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Some of the important people in my life - grandparents and a few friends - also influenced me to share their view of the sacredness of parents and my duty to honor them. Modifying my views and attitudes has been long and unsettling.
hi rohag, i meant to reply earlier. i don't feel we are dishonoring our parents if we relate the things they did or did not do. we are just telling the truth.
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Default Jul 17, 2017 at 07:11 PM
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hi rohag, i meant to reply earlier. i don't feel we are dishonoring our parents if we relate the things they did or did not do. we are just telling the truth.

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Default Jul 19, 2017 at 04:16 AM
  #16
[QUOTE=Rohag
One of the results of this upbringing was, in my case, poor or insufficient socialization. Despite a compliant personality, “fitting in” was not a strength. Prolonged social misadjustment (I don’t believe it rose to stressed my higher susceptibility to depression and anxiety. Eventually the stresses overcame whatever limited resilience I had. I crashed years ago and have never recovered. High compliance with treatment may contribute to stability at a low level of function, but not much else.

Thank you for this thread. This is exactly how I feel. Best wishes.
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Default Jul 21, 2017 at 02:17 PM
  #17
For Rohag and Fuzzy, you may feel more involved/responsible for your parents' dysfunction because you were the only children.

I am the youngest of three, and don't feel one bit involved. That's not entirely true, now that I think of it, I remember a time where she was screaming at him for not doing something regarding me, and I felt like if I didn't exist, they wouldn't be fighting.

But for the most part, I recall my mom screaming at my dad over money, politics, his bast*rd father, etc... so I didn't feel responsible.

I did not think we were dysfunctional honestly until a few years ago. And I know my mother must have disorders. My father took the easy way out- death at 44.

Because I witnesses my mother be abusive to men, I blame that as it having rubbed off on me. This is the cause for my depression. I can't have a good marriage. Bad role modeling. I'm a broken toy.

And as for emotional neglect, I wasn't allowed to have feelings, if they weren't my mom's feelings. Yes, she's a narcissist.

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Default Jul 21, 2017 at 04:58 PM
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I wasn't allowed to have feelings, if they weren't my mom's feelings. Yes, she's a narcissist.
I'm sorry.

Please feel free to ignore the question, TishaBuv: Having an "Nmom," how do or did you relate to her as an adult?

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Default Jul 22, 2017 at 09:42 AM
  #19
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I'm sorry.

Please feel free to ignore the question, TishaBuv: Having an "Nmom," how do or did you relate to her as an adult?
She had me convinced she was on my side and was my best ally. So I did everything she said I was supposed to do. If ever I defy her about anything, she disowns me, never to speak to me again, and she means it.

But, I have now learned it was all a rouse to manipulate me to get what she wants. Shyt hit the fan recently, showing her true colors. She holds nothing over me any more. I do what I want.

She lost everything; money, her precious possessions... all in ruin. And I just walk away with nothing. The material things are meaningless. What mattered was love, real love, and nothing was real.

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Default Jul 23, 2017 at 06:10 PM
  #20
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My experience may not nicely fit a childhood-emotional-neglect framework, but posting here may nevertheless be valuable.
It sounds like your parents played emotional mind games with you, so they did neglect your emotional needs.

Quote:
Among other things, I suffer from long-term depression and anxiety.
It would help to know how these problems manifest themselves. Can you give any examples?

Quote:
The simple realization of the irrationality is woefully insufficient to cancel the early social programming.
Does this realization have an emotional effect on you or do you feel disconnected from it? Have you ever discussed any of this with your parents? Do you still have a social relationship with them?
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