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Default Feb 24, 2019 at 09:29 AM
  #1
Hello. I’m hoping a moderator or DocJohn can help clarify and answer my questions. Specifically I am asking admin.

I’ve been a very active, contributing member of this forum for 3.5 years and have never had any trouble. I’d like to think that I’ve been helpful and supportive of members during my time here.

However, I am now slightly unclear as to what is considered by admin to be a supportive vs an unsupportive post.

Is expressing an opinion considered not supportive, when that opinion is straight talk and meant to help provide the OP with another perspective they may not be considering? Or, when that opinion may point out something behavioral that is detrimental to that person’s mental health and/or other people’s mental health? And is a dissenting opinion from the general crowd considered unsupportive when the intent is meant to help guide a member towards a healthier response in a given life situation?

I would like to also make a general observation and mention that over the course of several years, I have found many posts on here to be inflammatory and argumentative and/or provoking an argument between members. Is that against the community guidelines?

Thank you kindly in advance for your assistance in clarifying. My aim is to better understand the guidelines and the areas of grayness.
 
 
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Default Feb 24, 2019 at 09:59 AM
  #2
Good question.

Just my two cents. Supportive/unsupportive is very tricky concept. I personally think if someone finds other persons posts inappropriate, then it’s better to report it to administration and let them to decide what’s right and what’s wring. I don’t think it’s up to a third party (not the author of the thread and not moderator/administrator) to decide what’s supportive and what isn’t.

Some people understand supportive as giving specific suggestion in order to improve people’s situation and some interpret supportive is giving a hug etc
It’s subjective.

Unless someone is specifically asking not to comment and is just venting, then people will give suggestions the best they can. As about specifically you golden I have never seen you being too blunt or rude or offensive or unsupportive on anyone’s threads. So if someone finds you unsupportive perhaps it’s something to do with them, not you. So I again would encourage them report it instead of making judgment what’s supportive or what’s not. Let administration decide

No one here is “decide what’s supportive commitee” except administrators.
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Default Feb 24, 2019 at 10:08 AM
  #3
It's an interesting question, but unfortunately the answer isn't super straightforward because what one person finds supportive may be unsupportive to another. It's all very subjective, as divine said above.

I'm an admin for a large Facebook mental health group, and sometimes we have to make judgment calls. Certain things are easy to define as unsupportive (name calling, rude/judgmental comments, for example) while other things are less clear. In these cases if I receive a complaint, I'll encourage the person who made the post to take what they like and leave the rest.

Sometimes a person is looking for hugs, and sometimes someone is looking for ideas to make a change in their life. Neither are necessarily right or wrong, just different. I always find it helpful when people emphasize what they are looking for in their post so I know how to go about replying.
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Default Feb 24, 2019 at 10:17 AM
  #4
Thanks you two. I appreciate your thoughts! And thanks Divine for mentioning that you don’t think I’ve personally been unsupportive.

It is a gray area that becomes fuzzy to me, which is why I need clarification from admin on the guidelines.
 
 
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Default Feb 24, 2019 at 02:22 PM
  #5
It *is* a gray area; we freely acknowledge that.

We look at things like, did the OP ask for "straight talk" when posting their original query? Or were they unclear about what they were seeking, advise-wise?

If they were unclear, I tend to encourage members to err on the side of being supportive, non-judgmental, and clarifying whether they want your "straight talk" or not. Some members may be in a place where they want such talk, others may not.

I don't think it hurts to ask before offering it, since we rarely know the emotional state of the individual (unless they've shared that with us in the post).

Generallly, argumentative and inflammatory behavior is frowned upon and may be against the community guidelines, depending upon the specific context. But if no one reports the thread, then it may very well never be seen by someone on the moderation team.

Hope this helps clarify this issue somewhat...

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Default Feb 24, 2019 at 02:34 PM
  #6
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Originally Posted by DocJohn View Post
It *is* a gray area; we freely acknowledge that.

We look at things like, did the OP ask for "straight talk" when posting their original query? Or were they unclear about what they were seeking, advise-wise?

If they were unclear, I tend to encourage members to err on the side of being supportive, non-judgmental, and clarifying whether they want your "straight talk" or not. Some members may be in a place where they want such talk, others may not.

I don't think it hurts to ask before offering it, since we rarely know the emotional state of the individual (unless they've shared that with us in the post).

Generallly, argumentative and inflammatory behavior is frowned upon and may be against the community guidelines, depending upon the specific context. But if no one reports the thread, then it may very well never be seen by someone on the moderation team.

Hope this helps clarify this issue somewhat...
Thanks so much, DocJohn. That does help. I appreciate your direct feedback.
 
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Default Feb 24, 2019 at 02:50 PM
  #7
IMO, saying something like, "i'm an expert in this subject, and you are definitely being 'subjected'" - unless it is said with tongue-in-cheek OR some acknowledgement that one is never ENTIRELY cured and therefore may still be sensitive to discussions on the given subject (that is, pointing one finger means three are pointing back at you) - is prescriptive and unsupportive.

But IME, many people dont read past my opening statement to my "supporting" excuses and just yell at me for being unsupportive, so that definitely hinders me from responding at all. So, not sure yet how to work around that!
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Default Feb 24, 2019 at 03:18 PM
  #8
Thanks for this question golden eve .. I too have been pondering some similar issues lately ......

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Default Feb 24, 2019 at 03:19 PM
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Una, is your first paragraph being directed at me specifically? I have stated in a thread or two that I have a lot of experience in abusive relationships, and I give advice based on my experience and also based on what I’ve read from numerous expert articles and books from psychologists on the subject. If it is directed at me specifically, I was asking admin for clarification on community guidelines, not for feedback from members on my posts, though of course I’m open to hearing it if I ask for that. And if that wasn’t directed at me specifically then I have misunderstood your post because you also mention yourself in the second paragraph.
 
 
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Default Feb 24, 2019 at 04:37 PM
  #10
If you dont like how i reply in your threads, you are free to put me on ignore. Then i cant.
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Default Feb 24, 2019 at 04:43 PM
  #11
Hi Una. I am sorry if u take any offense to either me or my posts but that is not what this thread is about. Thanks.

Last edited by Anonymous40643; Feb 24, 2019 at 06:26 PM..
 
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Post Feb 24, 2019 at 05:21 PM
  #12
Sorry. I didnt realize i was going against guidelines if i contributed my two cents on a public thread as defined by the guidelines. I guess maybe this is one of those gray areas.

Eta - to address the question about my first post: anyone's understanding or misunderstanding or happiness or unhappiness is not my responsibility.
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Default Feb 24, 2019 at 06:16 PM
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Deleted comment. Oops.

Last edited by Anonymous40643; Feb 24, 2019 at 06:28 PM..
 
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Default Feb 24, 2019 at 10:24 PM
  #14
We're all going through something and no one's pain is any less or more than another, so lets stick together. It's so hard to be supportive yet honest. Many times I've wanted to reach out but stopped because of how my response will be taken. It's all very subjective and like all of us , individual.
but then again...what do I know.? I do the best I can.

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Default Feb 24, 2019 at 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Calla lily12 View Post
We're all going through something and no one's pain is any less or more than another, so lets stick together. It's so hard to be supportive yet honest. Many times I've wanted to reach out but stopped because of how my response will be taken. It's all very subjective and like all of us , individual.
but then again...what do I know.? I do the best I can.
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Default Feb 25, 2019 at 08:56 AM
  #16
Thats Eve for this thread. As a new member I am trying to do the right thing and have been put on ignore for not agreeing with an OP or maybe not saying what the OP wants to hear. When I do that I do not mean to minimize its just that some posts dont really specify if they are asking for advice, opinions or just venting. I try and say If i welcome comments or am just venting.

I think support can also be a gray area. When I relapsed 6 years ago a person from another online forum I belong to had my phone number because we texted and she knew I was in trouble. She called me (the only time ever because she only texts) and she served it to me real. I needed to hear that. I always text her on my sober anniversery and thank her for showing me the light. When she said what she said to me oh how I cried! I was indignant and argumentative. I couldn't believe she was saying these things instead of "supporting me". Earlier that day I had post a very "woe-is-me" I am an alcoholic post looking for pity and validation. When I didn't get it I thought everyone was against me and hated me. I felt betrayed. THAT was a perception I had when I was actively in the throws of alcoholism. I didn't need to hear sweet things and get pity or pats on the back. I needed to hear that I was making a choice to stay sick and hurt my family. I needed to hear that I was the only one who could get help and that I had to get honest and tell my secret and get well. So for me, that was AA. I haven't had a drink since 12/13./12 and I owe it all to the folks who didn't tell me what I wanted to hear and said things that hurt but were true.

I look at some of the posts here like that. Sure I could say what someone wanted to hear but if I have experience or strong feelings about something then I guess its a risk to say what I have to say. I try very hard to say it as straight forward as I can and I try to be sensitive. I make mistakes and when I do I always apologize. Sometimes I wish the people who ignored me gave me that opportunity but what can I do?

I also struggle with "toxic" and "retraumatizing" Sometimes it seems that saying that is used to shut someone down. And that isnt my intent. I do not ever want to be seen as a victim blamer but if people do not agree with something I post and just say I am toxic and traumatizing them it puts me in a position of trying to explain myself which looks like defensiveness. I do not know what to do when that happens. On one hand some people are geniunely mean and inflammatory and you can always tell by the way they post- all these flippant sarcastic, unkind statements and one-liners. But I do not think I post like that but can get swept up into the toxic person pile. I am still working through what to do when that happens. I know I have gone on for a while here but really feel passionate about what you shared. Thank you again for being brave enough to say these things.

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Default Feb 25, 2019 at 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by sarahsweets View Post
Thats Eve for this thread. As a new member I am trying to do the right thing and have been put on ignore for not agreeing with an OP or maybe not saying what the OP wants to hear. When I do that I do not mean to minimize its just that some posts dont really specify if they are asking for advice, opinions or just venting. I try and say If i welcome comments or am just venting.

I think support can also be a gray area. When I relapsed 6 years ago a person from another online forum I belong to had my phone number because we texted and she knew I was in trouble. She called me (the only time ever because she only texts) and she served it to me real. I needed to hear that. I always text her on my sober anniversery and thank her for showing me the light. When she said what she said to me oh how I cried! I was indignant and argumentative. I couldn't believe she was saying these things instead of "supporting me". Earlier that day I had post a very "woe-is-me" I am an alcoholic post looking for pity and validation. When I didn't get it I thought everyone was against me and hated me. I felt betrayed. THAT was a perception I had when I was actively in the throws of alcoholism. I didn't need to hear sweet things and get pity or pats on the back. I needed to hear that I was making a choice to stay sick and hurt my family. I needed to hear that I was the only one who could get help and that I had to get honest and tell my secret and get well. So for me, that was AA. I haven't had a drink since 12/13./12 and I owe it all to the folks who didn't tell me what I wanted to hear and said things that hurt but were true.

I look at some of the posts here like that. Sure I could say what someone wanted to hear but if I have experience or strong feelings about something then I guess its a risk to say what I have to say. I try very hard to say it as straight forward as I can and I try to be sensitive. I make mistakes and when I do I always apologize. Sometimes I wish the people who ignored me gave me that opportunity but what can I do?

I also struggle with "toxic" and "retraumatizing" Sometimes it seems that saying that is used to shut someone down. And that isnt my intent. I do not ever want to be seen as a victim blamer but if people do not agree with something I post and just say I am toxic and traumatizing them it puts me in a position of trying to explain myself which looks like defensiveness. I do not know what to do when that happens. On one hand some people are geniunely mean and inflammatory and you can always tell by the way they post- all these flippant sarcastic, unkind statements and one-liners. But I do not think I post like that but can get swept up into the toxic person pile. I am still working through what to do when that happens. I know I have gone on for a while here but really feel passionate about what you shared. Thank you again for being brave enough to say these things.
Hello Sarah. Thank you for sharing your truth. You wrote a very interesting post. I was wondering if I could clarify a couple of things with you.

You mentioned your struggle with chem dep. And how you needed "to be told it straight." I just wanted to add that PC is not designed to treat people with chem dep or any other illness for that matter. Members here do not have a responsibility to assess or treat someone else's mental health concerns. The only person here who is qualified to do that is DocJohn. But he still isn't going to be assessing or treating folks here because it's a website and that wouldn't be possible. I work in healthcare but I am NOT on PC in that role. That's why you won't find my particular credentials or job title in any of my posts. I am here only to seek and offer support.

I just wanted to clarify that because to me your post almost suggested that if we read a post on PC where someone is struggling with chem dep (or another illness) we must take it upon ourselves to sort that person out and get them on the right track. That would not be appropriate for several reasons. I think that's why we keep coming back to the "supportive" word because realistically what else can we be doing here as members who are not psych providers on a website?

What I've noticed on some threads is that some people do seem to be trying to "fix" or "cure" a poster which then leads to judgmental, pressuring or even shaming posts. Does that make sense to you Sarah? I am not saying that's what you do. I'm sharing examples.

Also, I would encourage everyone here not to assume that they should respond to others in the way they'd like people to respond to them. A "straight-talker" could be replying to someone who finds that style rude. There are also some passive-aggressive folks who preface posts with "No offense but..." or "I don't mean to be harsh but...." and then they proceed with an offensive or harsh comment. I'm not suggesting that you do that Sarah. Those are just some examples that I have noticed. We've all met that person in the non-PC world, right, "No offense but that outfit looks terrible on you. I'm not being rude, I'm just really honest."

I believe that if we ALL as a group stepped back and realized that we aren't here to treat or fix people, things would go more peacefully. There shouldn't be a sense of pressure or urgency to change people. We cannot change anyone. People change on their own terms in their own way usually as a result of trauma. What we can do on PC is share ideas or offer a hug or a thoughtful response...that's as much as any of us can do. Whether the issue is depression or chem dep or an attachment to a married person. As soon as one of us tries to treat or fix or change, I think that's when problems quickly arise.

Just my thoughts. Thanks again for sharing your truth Sarah. You are very brave.

Last edited by Anonymous57363; Feb 25, 2019 at 12:34 PM..
 
 
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Default Feb 25, 2019 at 12:50 PM
  #18
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Originally Posted by sarahsweets View Post
Thats Eve for this thread. As a new member I am trying to do the right thing and have been put on ignore for not agreeing with an OP or maybe not saying what the OP wants to hear. When I do that I do not mean to minimize its just that some posts dont really specify if they are asking for advice, opinions or just venting. I try and say If i welcome comments or am just venting.

I think support can also be a gray area. When I relapsed 6 years ago a person from another online forum I belong to had my phone number because we texted and she knew I was in trouble. She called me (the only time ever because she only texts) and she served it to me real. I needed to hear that. I always text her on my sober anniversery and thank her for showing me the light. When she said what she said to me oh how I cried! I was indignant and argumentative. I couldn't believe she was saying these things instead of "supporting me". Earlier that day I had post a very "woe-is-me" I am an alcoholic post looking for pity and validation. When I didn't get it I thought everyone was against me and hated me. I felt betrayed. THAT was a perception I had when I was actively in the throws of alcoholism. I didn't need to hear sweet things and get pity or pats on the back. I needed to hear that I was making a choice to stay sick and hurt my family. I needed to hear that I was the only one who could get help and that I had to get honest and tell my secret and get well. So for me, that was AA. I haven't had a drink since 12/13./12 and I owe it all to the folks who didn't tell me what I wanted to hear and said things that hurt but were true.

I look at some of the posts here like that. Sure I could say what someone wanted to hear but if I have experience or strong feelings about something then I guess its a risk to say what I have to say. I try very hard to say it as straight forward as I can and I try to be sensitive. I make mistakes and when I do I always apologize. Sometimes I wish the people who ignored me gave me that opportunity but what can I do?

I also struggle with "toxic" and "retraumatizing" Sometimes it seems that saying that is used to shut someone down. And that isnt my intent. I do not ever want to be seen as a victim blamer but if people do not agree with something I post and just say I am toxic and traumatizing them it puts me in a position of trying to explain myself which looks like defensiveness. I do not know what to do when that happens. On one hand some people are geniunely mean and inflammatory and you can always tell by the way they post- all these flippant sarcastic, unkind statements and one-liners. But I do not think I post like that but can get swept up into the toxic person pile. I am still working through what to do when that happens. I know I have gone on for a while here but really feel passionate about what you shared. Thank you again for being brave enough to say these things.
Hi Sarah. Thanks so much for sharing. I don’t have much time to reply since I’m at work on a brief break but I wanted to thank you kindly for your post.

To add to what you’ve said, I think straight talk can be helpful let’s say in the case of domestic abuse for example. When a member is being abused and they are not aware that it is emotional/verbal abuse- other members then point out the abuse and identify for that member the abuse tactics being used. In this example situation, the member is asking for help because they’re In great pain and turmoil. I know I have used straight talk coupled with compassion with members (along with several other straight shooting members who are trying to help the abuse victim) to gain an understanding of what is happening to them. In this situation, I think straight talk may be more necessary. That is just an example.

Shoot. I have to get back to work so I can’t elaborate further or go into greater detail, but I think in general that when members use straight talk on here they’re generally trying to help the OP see another viewpoint with a genuine interest and care in seeing the member get out of a bad situation. I can see in other situations where it may not be helpful, however. I know I personally get particularly incensed by domestic abuse and I hate to see a member getting abused by their partner.

And Sorry, I have to cut short but I wanted to say I appreciate your input and thoughts.

Last edited by Anonymous40643; Feb 25, 2019 at 01:15 PM..
 
 
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Default Mar 04, 2019 at 07:12 PM
  #19
I don't think the function of PC is to provide so-called 'straight talk' from one member to another. That is just my opinion.

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Default Mar 04, 2019 at 07:19 PM
  #20
I never said that was the purpose of PC. If you read my original post, I gave specific case scenarios. Many members here give straight talk to each other, if you are here long enough to witness it. And sometimes, I think it is necessary when people are very stuck in an unhealthy or toxic behavior pattern. People also come here for point blank advice on their situation. Often, when that happens people do give straight talk. It happens all the time on here. Most people are just trying to help in the way they know how to and sometimes, that means being very honest and/or direct with their feedback and/or opinions.

Last edited by Anonymous40643; Mar 04, 2019 at 07:32 PM..
 
 
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