advertisement
Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Kacknyne
New Member
Kacknyne One day at a time
 
Member Since: Mar 2020
Location: Indiana
Posts: 9
3 yr Member
3 hugs
given
Unhappy Mar 15, 2020 at 02:29 PM
  #1
Hello everyone! I'm trying to process through some stuff and I am looking for some insight. I have C-PTSD along with NPD. I have childhood trauma that effects me along with trauma from my stent in the army. I struggle with anxiety, depression, abandonment, rejection, selfishness, jealousy and self confidence. I also have controlling issues and manipulation tendencies. My wife had BPD. We have been together for 8 years and married for 5. Throughout our relationship I have lied, manipulated, been fake, hidden things and been controlling. When my wife and I have argued about my issues, I say I will change. I make an effort for a couple weeks until I see she is "happy" again, then fall right back into my old self. This has gone on for the entirety of our relationship since probably the 1 year mark. We go through this every 3-6 months or so.

Our last "fight" happened about 2 months ago and since then we have really been in a rut. We both are seeing therapist now and trying to cycle through our individual issues. It has put a huge strain on our marriage. She wants a divorce/separation because she feels that she doesn't really know me and was tricked into our relationship. Part of me doesn't blame her, but the other part of me loves her so much and I'm afraid to lose her. Afraid she will discover she's happy without me before she gives me a chance to change.

We were looking up info on narcissism and how it cannot be "cured" but you can learn to manage the severity and duration of the narcissistic tendencies. I told her I will get better I don't care what it takes.

Here are a few questions I have:

1. Has anyone here dealt with or have narcissism and were able to over come it? And if so, how?

2. Is anyone here in a relationship where one partner has C-PTSD/PTSD and the other has BPD? And if so, how do you manage it?

3. Has anyone here been through a divorce/separation in a relationship and that action made the relationship stronger in the end? And if so, how did it work?
Kacknyne is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Hugs from:
bide, Fuzzybear, Thirteenth Hour, winter4me
 
Thanks for this!
winter4me

advertisement
Open Eyes
Legendary Wise Elder
 
Open Eyes's Avatar
Open Eyes Not a Unicorn, just another horse
 
Member Since: Mar 2011
Location: Northeast USA
Posts: 23,093 (SuperPoster!)
10 yr Member
21.3k hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Mar 15, 2020 at 11:10 PM
  #2
Hi Kacknyne, see you found the ptsd forum. Sometimes it takes a while before you get a reply, so if you don't get a reply it doesn't mean you are being ignored or that your challenge isn't important.

First, I want to say how brave you are to finally admit you have problems. You really did admit quite a bit here and that is a big deal IMHO.

Quote:
We have been together for 8 years and married for 5. Throughout our relationship I have lied, manipulated, been fake, hidden things and been controlling.
These things you have listed here are coping mechanisms you developed most likely due to growing up in a dysfunctional home with dysfunctional parents. Sometimes these coping mechanisms result from growing up with a parent who has issues with alcohol and you got into a pattern of using these behaviors to survive that kind of environment and the mood swings that a parent with this challenge presents.

Personally, I think both your challenge and your wife's challenge stem from conditional love. You both developed behavior patterns to protect yourselves from being hurt. And you both have the same problem with low self esteem. So, in both of you there is a strong desire for control. And you have a deep fear of abandonment too.

So both of you have developed strong relationship habits. For your relationship to get healthier, BOTH of you will need to change these habits. This takes "work" . You both have to learn how to catch your deep programed behavior patterns and stop them before you act them out. It will take TWO to break the pattern.

A lot of times individuals with BPD end up in a relationship with a partner that has NPD challenges. You are typically drawn to each other because something is "familiar" and often we see familiar as safe.

Often the individual with NPD actually abuses the partner, either emotionally or physically or both.

Do you physically abuse your wife? (I know this is a hard question and may be hard to answer honestly)
Open Eyes is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Hugs from:
Fuzzybear, Kacknyne
 
Thanks for this!
bide, Kacknyne
Open Eyes
Legendary Wise Elder
 
Open Eyes's Avatar
Open Eyes Not a Unicorn, just another horse
 
Member Since: Mar 2011
Location: Northeast USA
Posts: 23,093 (SuperPoster!)
10 yr Member
21.3k hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Mar 16, 2020 at 09:31 AM
  #3
I asked the last question because when a woman walks away from physical abuse she deserves to feel safe and not punished for needing to feel safe.

The other behavior that has to be dealt with is if there is any problem with alcohol. If either of you is using alcohol to self medicate and use as a crutch the drinking will take over and you will lose control of the abuse pattern behavior. And often the alcohol fuels and lets out the angry insecure part that can emotionally abuse and even strike out.

So these two things I have pointed out to you are very important.
Open Eyes is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Hugs from:
Fuzzybear, Kacknyne
 
Thanks for this!
Kacknyne, winter4me
winter4me
Wise Elder
 
winter4me's Avatar
winter4me has no updates.
 
Member Since: Dec 2012
Location: new england
Posts: 7,733
10 yr Member
1,818 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Mar 16, 2020 at 10:13 AM
  #4
I am impressed at your ability to relate your own behaviors and your desire to change. It is a long road but a worthwhile one. Your marriage may or may not survive, if she is saying she wants a divorce, you might discuss a formal separation. I know you are fearful of this but, if she and you need to know how each of you feel without the other. It could help if you each have your own place/space to go to after talking/working on issues. I think the toughest part is letting go & if you are controlling and have npd that is going to be very difficult. She will also find it difficult. All jealousy has to be dealt with in therapy and not acted on. (((((((((((((((big hug and best of luck)))))))))))))

__________________
"...don't say Home
/ the bones of that word mend slowly...' marie harris


winter4me is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Hugs from:
Fuzzybear
 
Thanks for this!
Open Eyes
Kacknyne
New Member
Kacknyne One day at a time
 
Member Since: Mar 2020
Location: Indiana
Posts: 9
3 yr Member
3 hugs
given
Default Mar 16, 2020 at 03:19 PM
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Open Eyes View Post
I asked the last question because when a woman walks away from physical abuse she deserves to feel safe and not punished for needing to feel safe.

The other behavior that has to be dealt with is if there is any problem with alcohol. If either of you is using alcohol to self medicate and use as a crutch the drinking will take over and you will lose control of the abuse pattern behavior. And often the alcohol fuels and lets out the angry insecure part that can emotionally abuse and even strike out.

So these two things I have pointed out to you are very important.
I do not physically abuse my wife. I feel I have mentally abused her through my manipulative behavior, lies and being fake. Reading your comment actually brought me to tears, because I think you hit the nail on the head. I was physically abused as a child and I feel I developed these issues I have to help try to escape the trauma. I also was abandoned by my parents as a child, and I know that is where my abandonment and rejection issues stem from.
Kacknyne is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Hugs from:
bide, Fuzzybear, Open Eyes, Thirteenth Hour, winter4me
 
Thanks for this!
winter4me
Open Eyes
Legendary Wise Elder
 
Open Eyes's Avatar
Open Eyes Not a Unicorn, just another horse
 
Member Since: Mar 2011
Location: Northeast USA
Posts: 23,093 (SuperPoster!)
10 yr Member
21.3k hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Mar 16, 2020 at 04:53 PM
  #6
(((Kacknyne))), I am sorry it's ok to sit and experience your emotions about this challenge. It needs to be felt instead of hid behind some of your behaviors to avoid these emotions.

What about the use of alcohol? Has that been something you have used?

Often that is something used to handle the emotions some want to surpress. This is not about judging you ok?
Open Eyes is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Hugs from:
Fuzzybear
Open Eyes
Legendary Wise Elder
 
Open Eyes's Avatar
Open Eyes Not a Unicorn, just another horse
 
Member Since: Mar 2011
Location: Northeast USA
Posts: 23,093 (SuperPoster!)
10 yr Member
21.3k hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Mar 16, 2020 at 06:33 PM
  #7
Hmmm, you seem to be quiet, are you having a hard time with suddenly remembering these realities of your childhood?

Sometimes that can cause what is called flooding where someone is suddenly overwhelmed with these early life experiences they may not have processed. Feeling these are not going to hurt you, they are things you need to work through instead of run from. It can feel confusing, it's important to be patient with yourself when you experience this.
Open Eyes is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Hugs from:
Fuzzybear, winter4me
 
Thanks for this!
winter4me
Fuzzybear
Wisest Elder Ever
 
Fuzzybear's Avatar
Fuzzybear has no updates.
 
Member Since: Nov 2002
Location: Cave.
Posts: 96,300 (SuperPoster!)
20 yr Member
81.2k hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Mar 16, 2020 at 07:56 PM
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Open Eyes View Post
Hi Kacknyne, see you found the ptsd forum. Sometimes it takes a while before you get a reply, so if you don't get a reply it doesn't mean you are being ignored or that your challenge isn't important.

First, I want to say how brave you are to finally admit you have problems. You really did admit quite a bit here and that is a big deal IMHO.


These things you have listed here are coping mechanisms you developed most likely due to growing up in a dysfunctional home with dysfunctional parents. Sometimes these coping mechanisms result from growing up with a parent who has issues with alcohol and you got into a pattern of using these behaviors to survive that kind of environment and the mood swings that a parent with this challenge presents.

Personally, I think both your challenge and your wife's challenge stem from conditional love. You both developed behavior patterns to protect yourselves from being hurt. And you both have the same problem with low self esteem. So, in both of you there is a strong desire for control. And you have a deep fear of abandonment too.

So both of you have developed strong relationship habits. For your relationship to get healthier, BOTH of you will need to change these habits. This takes "work" . You both have to learn how to catch your deep programed behavior patterns and stop them before you act them out. It will take TWO to break the pattern.

A lot of times individuals with BPD end up in a relationship with a partner that has NPD challenges. You are typically drawn to each other because something is "familiar" and often we see familiar as safe.

Often the individual with NPD actually abuses the partner, either emotionally or physically or both.

Do you physically abuse your wife? (I know this is a hard question and may be hard to answer honestly)
Good post.

Welcome to pc

__________________
Fuzzybear is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Hugs from:
Open Eyes, winter4me
 
Thanks for this!
winter4me
Kacknyne
New Member
Kacknyne One day at a time
 
Member Since: Mar 2020
Location: Indiana
Posts: 9
3 yr Member
3 hugs
given
Default Mar 18, 2020 at 05:02 AM
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Open Eyes View Post
Hmmm, you seem to be quiet, are you having a hard time with suddenly remembering these realities of your childhood?

Sometimes that can cause what is called flooding where someone is suddenly overwhelmed with these early life experiences they may not have processed. Feeling these are not going to hurt you, they are things you need to work through instead of run from. It can feel confusing, it's important to be patient with yourself when you experience this.
I'm sorry it takes me a bit to respond. I try to stay busy and not let my mind wonder too much. I find that it helps staying busy so I don't think too many bad thoughts. I had an episode a couple days ago with a fit of jealousy after letting my mind wander too much.

I do not struggle with alcohol. I may have a drink here and there to take the edge off but no more then 2 at a time and no more then 2 times a week. Cigarettes are my addiction.
Kacknyne is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Hugs from:
Thirteenth Hour
 
Thanks for this!
Open Eyes, winter4me
Open Eyes
Legendary Wise Elder
 
Open Eyes's Avatar
Open Eyes Not a Unicorn, just another horse
 
Member Since: Mar 2011
Location: Northeast USA
Posts: 23,093 (SuperPoster!)
10 yr Member
21.3k hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Mar 18, 2020 at 10:54 AM
  #10
Ok, thank you for being honest. It's ok to find things that you can get busy with. Our way of managing ourselves so we feel we have a sense of control are things we often developed early and used to survive so it's not like we can expect ourselves to suddenly have all new navigational tools. Finding something to be busy with can help a person calm down when feeling overwhelmed so it's not bad or wrong.

You asked me if there is a cure for individuals that may have some issues with narcissism. Well, often individuals with this challenge can be hard to work with because they don't want to let go of the navigational methods they used to avoid feeling inadequate or powerless. That being said, if you are struggling with ptsd challenges, the symptoms can "seem" to lean narcissistic, HOWEVER, I cannot stress enough that ptsd and npd are not the same thing and it's important adequate time be spent with a trauma specialist so as not to further traumatize someone who is in fact suffering from ptsd.

Often, the sad thing is how often a narcissist will pair with a partner that suffers from borderline personality issues because they BOTH suffered childhood trauma and neglect. So, in essence they become what is called trauma bonded. The narcissist developed ways to control her to avoid being hurt and she developed ways to anticipate periods of being treated badly and learning to live in the cycles of being somewhat loved, then being hurt or abandoned emotionally. The sad thing about both of is wanting to feel they have some kind of power over being loved and feeling safe without this deep hurt of being abandoned.

Quote:
. I had an episode a couple days ago with a fit of jealousy after letting my mind wander too much.
VERY GOOD ((Kacknyne)) you have identified something very important in this statement. JEALOUSY!! This is the main reason a person with narcissistic injuries needs what is called a "narcissist feed". Yet, if someone is suffering from ptsd, they can feel anger and frustration whenever recalling childhood trauma too. So, understanding the difference takes time and special training, preferable from a trauma specialist.

I was hoping you would come back here, because hanging out in the narcissist's forum isn't going to help you all that much. The reason for that tends to be having a need to blame everyone else for challenges and laugh and joke even because narcissists don't like to look at their own deep hurts and insecurities. It's much too hard because there is no "narcissistic feed in doing that". Also, often just a glimpse can result in what you described here in your recent post. HORRIBLE JEALOUSY and anger and it's simply too hard to experience. The question is, is it really jealousy, or shame? There is a difference between the two.

As I am sitting here talking to you, I can feel for you and I am so sorry for what happened to you as a child. I can feel for you deeply, but I have to know if you are narcissistic, you cannot feel for me. I have to know, the reason you can't feel for me is because of what that child in you did not get to experience that caused you to develop this narcissism. That is, if you actually fall high on the spectrum.

I know you say you love your wife and your family and that you want to "fix" what is wrong. However, what is going to be especially hard for you is you're actually being able to "feel for them". You see, when you love bomb your wife, it's not out of genuinely feeling how she feels, instead it's simply a navigational tool you use to gain your sense of control over her. That tends to be also true for how you are with your children. This is IF you developed into a narcissist or lean heavy on the scale.

The reason WHY your wife says "I feel like I was only tricked into my relationship", and also "I don't even really know who my husband is"? This is because she was only a possession to you, and you never really SAW her or felt HER. What is SO SAD about this to someone like me is how this is all too FAMILIAR to your wife because most of the time this happens to a woman who's father was a narcissist too. The truth is, your wife married you thinking she would finally be loved and get to feel safe, she was fooled as is often the case because there was also something "familiar" about you, and we often miss what that familiar really means. Familiar doesn't mean "safe", all it means is it is something a person grew up navigating around in their environment and it's something they are simply used to. Again, this CAN happen with a narcissist, yet, it can also come from the affects caused by trauma that develops into ptsd too. Some of this depends on if your time in the service led to your experiencing some trauma as well.

A while ago I happened to meet a psychopath here and got to talk to him. You know what he told me about narcissists? He said, they are the EASIEST to control and USE because all you have to do is feed their ego. He then said, that he also gains the MOST pleasure when he is done with them because they crumble and shatter and fall apart the most. I thought to myself, "wow, that is pretty damn dark and soulless", no empathy what so ever.

You see Kacknyne, there is nothing I can do to "trick" you into truely fixing yourself. What you have to do is VERY hard, and most narcissists HATE seeing what is really "back there" that is the root to the hurt that they developed so many ways to avoid feeling. You see, as soon as you began to think about it, look what happened, you felt so much jealousy and anger and you don't know what to do with that, you never had any help with that either. Narcissists need to only see THEIR truth, they don't want to see reality, they don't know what to do with it, all they can do is turn their back and embrace their OWN reality. YET, it's a bit different for someone who is suffering from ptsd. Individuals with ptsd may choose to keep others at arms length for very different reasons even they often don't realize.

When a narcissist is decribed as always standing in front of a mirror and always needing to admire their own reflection? This is because as a child they did not get to experience a true nurturing presence that gave them the loving caring face all children need. So, what a narcissist had to do is give that to themselves. The jealousy they feel is in seeing others who benefited from something they themselves did not have. This is why, even though I feel for you, you are not going to feel for me (if you are a narcissist). If I feel for you and in some way fail you? You can't think of me any other way than that I failed you and that is when you will choose to discard me. A narcissist fears abandonment, so how they handle that threat is they are the ones that need to discard first. And they won't empathize with those they choose to discard either. Instead, often it's much easier to blame instead. This is not the same if someone has ptsd challenges.

This is also part of WHY a narcissist will remember all imperfections or hurts in others too. They only remember these because of how it comes in handy to convince themselves they stand on higher ground and are superior. A person who has empathy remembers these challenges very differently, they walk away not wanting to cause the other person more pain and often a person with empathy often struggles with cognitive disonance because they don't want to hurt the other person. A narcissist simply doesn't care, all they see is their hurt, they don't want to see their own behavior that caused the problem to occur. And they tend to like to go on these MAD MARCHES that are all about the "ME, ME, ME" that needs to recover their sense of ego and power to cast out the other that failed them somehow.

My question is, do you really love your wife? Or, do you just love that you can effectively manipulate her whenever YOU need to be reassured she will still be there for you as needed? Often what narcissists do in relationships unknowingly is they only see relationships as servicing their own needs and they don't know how to genuinely see the other person's needs. Everyone around them is only an extension of themselves instead of allowing others including their children to develop their own identities and feel they are loved for doing so. There should be no environment where family is all expected to circle their wagons around THE narcissist and feeling bad if they fail to please the narcissist in some way. You say you WANT your family, what does that really mean to you? Do you know how to see THEM? Or do you need them to always circle around YOU four your narcissistic feed? Quite honestly, this may seem confusing to you and something you may need to sit and think about. This tends to get the most challenging when children get older and want to have their own opinions etc., which narcissists have a problem with. There is a difference in the dynamics if a person is a trauma survivor verses the more manipulative tactics used by a narcissist who's desire is for control and superiority.

I also asked about your use of alcohol, because often that only further complicates things as it prevents maturing and growth and tends to contribute to trapping an individual at an often very immature level. Often that can be an element in both individuals where they are trauma bonded and addicted to self medicating with alcohol or some other form of sedating drug use, even marijuana use.

It's possible you are not "full" NPD, and instead may have strong traits. NPD tends to be overdiagnosed, when intead there needs to be more time spent actually evaluating with a professional, not someone who just needs to throw it out there because "some" behaviors seem to fit with narcissistic personality disorder. When a person suffers from complex ptsd, that person needs to have more time with an actual trauma therapist instead of just some quick label tossed at them. Trauma does leave some deep narcissistic injuries that don't always mean the individual is a narcissist yet instead may have some very sensitive narcissistic injuries. There is a difference.

Last edited by Open Eyes; Mar 18, 2020 at 01:55 PM..
Open Eyes is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Thanks for this!
Thirteenth Hour
Open Eyes
Legendary Wise Elder
 
Open Eyes's Avatar
Open Eyes Not a Unicorn, just another horse
 
Member Since: Mar 2011
Location: Northeast USA
Posts: 23,093 (SuperPoster!)
10 yr Member
21.3k hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Mar 18, 2020 at 04:42 PM
  #11
I also want to tell you, that you are at a crucial point in your life with this. I can't tell you how this will turn out either. However, often with npd, this fear of abandonment they tend to have? This saying tends to ring true. "You live by the sword, you die by the sword". Often what can happen, is the way many narcissists need to control so much so they avoid abandonment, becomes so harsh that they often face the one thing they were trying so hard to control and avoid, "abandonment". Some actually soften with age, while others don't. And often their children suffer too. We cannot change everything about ourselves, we are all lacking perfection. You CAN IMHO, learn to recognize areas you can work on improving. That fact that you have admitted what you have is promising.

Last edited by Open Eyes; Mar 18, 2020 at 05:05 PM..
Open Eyes is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Kacknyne
New Member
Kacknyne One day at a time
 
Member Since: Mar 2020
Location: Indiana
Posts: 9
3 yr Member
3 hugs
given
Default Mar 18, 2020 at 08:23 PM
  #12
Let me start with my past and work my way forward to see if this helps. Ok here goes, I live with Complex PTSD and NPD. I had a rough childhood where I was physically, emotionally and mentally abused. I also have PTSD from my time in the army where I deal with demons there as well. I was abandoned by my parents at the age of 15 to live with my grandparents after they found alcohol in my room. This was horrible for me because my grandparents were not strict and let me do whatever I wanted. So from the age of 15 to 21 I struggled with drug and alcohol addiction. This is also around the time I found out my grandpa I was living with raped 2 of my aunts. The only reason I stopped was because I got my then girlfriend pregnant and needed to get a job and be semi responsible. We ended up getting married, we had another child and that's around when I joined the military. After my deployment in '09-'10 my PTSD really took me to dark places. Almost sociopathic tendencies. No empathy, no feelings just a hollow soul wondering around.

We ended up getting divorced a year later and I jumped into a relationship with a woman who was as damaged as, if not more damaged, as me. She had NPD and Bipolar tenancies and really messed my head up. I actually ruined my relationship with my daughters while with her and couldn't see it happening. She had me thinking my exwife was the issue and was to blame for me not seeing my daughters, when really it was our toxic relationship my exwife was avoiding letting my daughters see. That relationship ended horribly. Restraining orders and a nasty separation. She literally took everything I had.

After that I found my current wife. We met on the dating site Plenty of Fish. We both were coming out of bad relationships and were only looking for a hookup. But the day we met changed all that. When I first saw her I was floored. This beautiful and strong woman. A single mom of 3, making it work with what she had. She was independent, hardworking, gorgeous, outspoken, charismatic and loving. Not to mention a smile that could brighten any room and sexy to boot. She was also VERY sexual. I fell hard for her.

Up to this point I had been in very "vanilla" relationships. No real sexual experimentation and very plain love making. But this woman was into all kinds of kink. It was very intimidating. She was open to me about her sexuality. She was very experienced and enjoyed having multiple partners. It's something she enjoyed and made her happy. This was really intimidating. I told her I wasn't comfortable with that right now and that it would be something I would work on. And she took that for my word. I never worked on opening up. Too scared, too intimidated, too selfish, too self concious a combination of all that, but I never worked on it. I put the thought on the back burner.

This is where my falseness really started. When I met my wife on Plenty of Fish I was talking to another girl and had plans to meet up with her a few days later. I never told my wife about her. Well, small world, my wife grooms this girls dog. So they got to talking about things and I became the subject of conversation. My wife confronted me about it and I lied to her telling her I hadn't planned on meeting her. Alos, I have struggled most of my life with holding down a job. The longest I have ever held a single job is 1 year. Most of my life I have done construction. I told her I had 10 years of construction experience. When really it was 10 years worth of; 2 months working for this job, 1 month not working, 3 months working this job, 2 months not working...ect. But I was too proud to admit it to even myself. I have a horrible work ethic, unless whatever I'm doing keeps me interested and keeps my attention.

After a couple weeks I moved in. A few months later I got her pregnant. Then I proposed, even though we didn't get married for a few years. Pieces felt like they were lining up. We struggled paycheck to paycheck but we always made it work. I was developing a relationship back with my daughters, we seemed happy as a family, life was good. Then my wifes mom wanted to move to North Carolina to be closer to the rest of their family. My wife wanted to follow her and asked if I wanted to go. I didn't want to, but I told her yes for fear of losing my wife. So we moved to NC.
While in NC I got depressed from missing my daughters. We went from having them every other weekend and 1-2 days through the week, to 1/2 of summer break and I would come up and see them for a week during Christmas break. During this time I lied to my wife a lot, I started being more controlling, I was manipulating, I was hiding my addiction to video games (not very well), I was hiding anything I thought would upset her, I started watching porn and I talked to other women. We would get into an argument I would tell her I would change and get better. And I would get better for 2-4 weeks, until I would see she wasn't mad and then I would go right back to my old ways. This cycle of arguement, get better temporarily, then back to my old ways would happen every 3-6 months or so. We revisited my wifes sexual desires, and I told her again to give me time to be ok with it. That I would need to work on it. But I didn't.
Then the day before Thanksgiving in 2014, my wifes mom passed away unexpectedly. She was crushed, I was crushed. Her mom was an amazing grandmother to our children and was a huge loss in our lives. We had planned on getting married in the summer of 2015, but my wife couldn't imagine going through a wedding planning and ceremony without her mom. So we got married at the courthouse that January. At this point we had 6 kids between the 2 of us and I felt we should be done. My wife struggled with depression after her mom passed and wanted another child. I told her no, but after some time I told her yes just to make her happy. But I was angry about it. So after our son was born, I got a vasectomy against my wifes wishes. I even had her take me to the appt and she begged me not to go through with it. That point is where I feel our marriage took a turn for the worst.

Like I said before my wife was very sexual. Up to the point of my vasectomy I would get oral sex 1-2 times a week. Since my vasectomy I can count about 12 times in the last 4 years that I received oral sex. That is how I really realized how much she hated me for having the vasectomy. And I do mean hate. We talked and agreed to move back to Indiana to be closer to my daughters. I was supposed to go up, find a place and a job then come back and have a few weeks to pack up and move. Well I went up, found a place and a job, but gave my wife 2 days to pack our stuff. I came down with my brothers and rushed through packing and moving. We ended up leaving 1/2 our stuff behind because I allowed my brothers to rush us and treat my wife horribly.

The next year or so was the same as N. Carolina. the same 3-6 month cycle of issue, temporary fix, then back to the old ways. the only difference was we had my daughters more. My wife was debating separation/divorce just before we got the worst news ever. In October of 2017, we found out that my daughters, babysitters husband, had molested my younger daughter and fondled my oldest daughter. I was devastated. Up to this point I had most of my PTSD rage and anger issues under control for the most part. Then I spiraled. Anger outburst, destructive behavior complete mental shattering. I actually started seeking therapy help through the VA but really didn't get any help, more of a distraction then anything. So the last couple years was a battle with my PTSD, court battles with the man who violated my daughters, and struggling to hold our marriage together. Still with the same 3-6 month cycle of issue, temporary fix, back to my old self.

This all came to a head and finally put us where we are now about 3 months ago. We revisited my wife's sexual desires and again, I said give me time. But she had given me time. She had given me 7 years to figure it out, but I never did. She is tired of the cycle that we have. She is tired of the lies, manipulation, fake persona, hiding things, controlling and most of all, she is tired of my selfishness. At this point is where she was open to me about wanting a separation/divorce and her reasoning behind it. Which made everything more "real" I guess. This is what has forced me to really look at myself and my behavior and see how destructive I really have been in our marriage. We are both in therapy now.

We found out I have C-PTSD and NPD and we also found out my wife has BPD. We are still "together" but not in a normal aspect. My wife and her therapist have agreed to no sex, to try to reprogram her sexual mind. She uses sex as a coping mechanism. It's like Tylenol for a headache. If she is frustrated or angry or sad, sex can give her a temporary fix. But with that, she has a emotional disconnect when it comes to sex. She enjoys it, but to her it doesn't matter if its with me or a stranger, she can have the same release. I will point out, my wife has never cheated. Along with no sex, there is no affection or intimacy either. She needs to avoid this so she can have a clear mind while she figures herself out and what she wants. She said that when we have intimacy or affection, she ends up falling back into bed with me and it takes her back to square 1. Which I understand. It is very hard to be around her and not tell her I love her, or give her a hug, or a kiss. Which triggers my abandonment and rejection issues. This is one of the reasons she wants a separation. I know she loves me, we wouldn't be here right now trying to figure everything out if she didn't. I know I love her. A separation scares me because I want a chance to change and show her I really mean it this time but I'm afraid she may think she is better off without me before that happens. I'm very scared especially when I look back and realize how much of an asshole I have been. She deserves better then what I have given her.
Kacknyne is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Hugs from:
Open Eyes, Thirteenth Hour
Open Eyes
Legendary Wise Elder
 
Open Eyes's Avatar
Open Eyes Not a Unicorn, just another horse
 
Member Since: Mar 2011
Location: Northeast USA
Posts: 23,093 (SuperPoster!)
10 yr Member
21.3k hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Mar 18, 2020 at 11:52 PM
  #13
Wow, Kacknyne, you have been through a lot. I honestly think you never really had a chance to find out where you fit. In all of that I simply don't see any real stability. I am not a professional, but I am not so sure you actually have NPD. I think you are probably an individual who has a lot of unprocessed trauma. It sounds more like you developed a lot of defense mechanisms to avoid being punished. More like a battered woman's syndrome only you are a male instead. You seem to have been tossed from one relationship to the next and no one was grounded or knew who they were so it was just constant chaos for you. Your wife doesn't know you? She doesn't even know herself and she has a sex addition to help her handle her anxiety and stress. That's not actually love making, not true intimacy. IMO, your deception was trying to bide your time because you did not want to do the multiple partners your wife wanted you to do. That's not for everyone. It's not narcissistic to not want to participate in that either.

I think you want a normal family and you have had so many obstacles all your life that got in the way of you having that experience. You have not really had "structure" in your life either, "healthy structure". Sometimes men end up joining the service to find that. Sometimes it can help, and other times their experience is just more trauma and chaos.

Where were you were deployed, did you see and experience action? Did you go to Iraq? The training is tough, it has to be so you don't hesitate in action. Did you stop serving due to the PTSD?

Just wanted to say, I respect all the effort you put into all you shared, I am sure that took a lot of effort for you.
Open Eyes is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Open Eyes
Legendary Wise Elder
 
Open Eyes's Avatar
Open Eyes Not a Unicorn, just another horse
 
Member Since: Mar 2011
Location: Northeast USA
Posts: 23,093 (SuperPoster!)
10 yr Member
21.3k hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Mar 19, 2020 at 12:08 AM
  #14
Quote:
. No empathy, no feelings just a hollow soul wondering around.
That is shell shock. The mind is overloaded and all you can do is move around like a zombie.

Too much for the executive frontal part of your brain to handle. And you may have already had undiagnosed ptsd and serving just made it get worse.

How old were you at the time? I am thinking maybe 22 ish?

Last edited by Open Eyes; Mar 19, 2020 at 12:21 AM..
Open Eyes is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Open Eyes
Legendary Wise Elder
 
Open Eyes's Avatar
Open Eyes Not a Unicorn, just another horse
 
Member Since: Mar 2011
Location: Northeast USA
Posts: 23,093 (SuperPoster!)
10 yr Member
21.3k hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Mar 19, 2020 at 12:24 AM
  #15
Alas, I am heading up to bed. I will check in tomorrow.

Thanks for sharing ((Kacknyne)). You have much to sort out. "PATIENCE" is so important, cannot say that enough.
Open Eyes is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Kacknyne
New Member
Kacknyne One day at a time
 
Member Since: Mar 2020
Location: Indiana
Posts: 9
3 yr Member
3 hugs
given
Default Mar 19, 2020 at 06:28 AM
  #16
I was 23 when I joined the service and I was deployed to Afghanistan as a sniper team leader. I stopped serving because my contract was over and I didn't want to reup my service. It was getting too political for me. I have a phone meeting today with my case manager for therapy. We are going to really dive in and adjust my treatment plan to help try to regulate my mind the best we can.

I want to add that me and my wife ended up having sex last night. I don't know if it was built up emotions or what. We both kinda woke up in the middle of the night and it just happened. I'm not sure how it is going to effect her and her progress. But I'm trying not to let it get my hopes up and just look at it as it was a release for the both of us.

I appreciate you helping me try to process this all. I'm trying to stay positive and strong so that I stay on track to recovery the best I can.
Kacknyne is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Hugs from:
Open Eyes, Thirteenth Hour
Open Eyes
Legendary Wise Elder
 
Open Eyes's Avatar
Open Eyes Not a Unicorn, just another horse
 
Member Since: Mar 2011
Location: Northeast USA
Posts: 23,093 (SuperPoster!)
10 yr Member
21.3k hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Mar 19, 2020 at 12:16 PM
  #17
Thanks for giving me a better idea of that part of your history. I think it's very important that you share that history with a qualified "trauma" specialist. What I tried to do is to talk about how there is a difference when it comes to battling ptsd compared to someone with NPD. Unfortunately, there are people that tend to throw the NPD label as a reason for another person's behaviors. This is wrong and can often cause more harm to a person who genuinely needs help instead of being convinced they are a bad person when instead they are in fact a very hurt person. From reading the history you have shared, I feel your core is of a person who always wanted to do the right thing and be a good person and a responsible person. Unfortunately for you there was no mentor figure that was there for you to offer you an example of what it means to develop a healthy structure in your life. The structure you did participate in put you in a position that revolved around being aggressive in a military mindset. It's not surprising that only added to your already challenged ptsd functioning mind.

From what you have shared, I see a person who genuinely suffered due to experiencing one dysfunctional controlling person/persons to the next. I think you are more a career victim than one who tries to control and manipulate others. From what you shared of you history, I feel you have been victimized by different narcissists and have tried to just figure out how to survive despite these often abusive controlling individuals.

What I see is a person that really always WANTED to experience an actual "functional" family. It's actually not a bad thing that you did not want to engage in what your wife kept asking of you. It's not a crime that you had periods where you tried to offer her love only to have her again want you to try to engage in something that actually doesn't fit into any "healthy functional family life". You just strike me as a heart that wants to love but just ends up getting hurt by one dysfunctional person after another.

Often if a person has a history growing up in dysfunction, that child genuinely doesn't know what a functional person is or how to even tell. What you have shared is an individual who constantly suffers from emotional neglect and little to no actual nurturing.

Your wife has some trauma too. Sometimes the behavior pattern you are describing develops from sexual abuse victims. I actually met another man here that had a wife who had similar issues, and it stemmed from how she was sexually abused. Like you he loved her so much and they had children and she wanted him to do things he could not do either. It took time but he began to find out what happened to her that created this challenge. Like you, he felt helpless too. He wanted so badly to "fix" it and he had to learn how to be patient while she got help to "fix and heal". He also described his wife much like you do, beautiful and seemingly strong and amazing in so many ways. He talked about how hard it was to watch her fighting these demons from her past, how very painful it was to witness and not have a way to fix it for her.

It sounds more like both you and your wife may be struggling with some BPD challenges (not diagnosing you though). Sometimes, that also happens where two individuals bond yet both had a lot of trauma that presents challenges in the relationship and creating what is considered some kind of normal safe family environment. It's not unusual for the pattern a narcissist creates to leave the victim continuing that toxic pattern even though they distance from that kind of relationship. It's not that one is a narcissist, but instead was a victim of one or even several. It's actually not unusual for a person to develop certain behaviors that actually attract narcissists to them. This is what I meant about "familiar" and how it doesn't always mean "safe' or good. That tends to be what a person learns while they finally work on HEALING. Narcissists tend to lean cold and uncaring, that's NOT what I am sensing in what you have shared. Narcissists prefer to blame everyone else instead of actually looking at their own part of whatever contributes to relationships falling apart. Narcissists NEED to see themselves superior in each encounter. If you are not with them, it means you are against them and they like to be the first to discard. That is not what you are doing, it's what you tend to run away from instead, big difference. Manipulating or hiding is often used in both cases, it's hiding from an abuser verses using tactics to decieve and control and look for a feed in order to feel superior in some way.

I would like to step back from the label of NPD here with you. I think you need to actually see a true specialist who can listen to what you shared here with me so you can get a more accurate diagnoses. The last thing you need is to be blamed when instead you really deserve to get the right help instead. You can copy all this too. I think you put a lot of effort into what you shared here with me. I think it can help you when you do see a "trauma" specialist more instead of sitting across from that individual struggling to share all that you have been through. In my own experience, it's not unusual for a therapist to toss off a diagnoses MUCH TOO SOON that can contribute to more confusion when THAT is the last thing a person needs to experience.

I had been tossed around like that myself. Then I sat with a psychiatrist and showed him PROOF of what I had tried to say that was TRUTH. He looked at everything in my records and stared at me in the most serious way and said "YOU ARE ONE VERY MISUNDERSTOOD WOMAN". He actually saw the BS that was totally WRONG. Individuals who do not specialize in "trauma" work, tend to make a lot of mistakes. They are NOT trained to notice the clear red flags and often label things wrong.

Last edited by Open Eyes; Mar 19, 2020 at 12:32 PM..
Open Eyes is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Thanks for this!
Kacknyne
Open Eyes
Legendary Wise Elder
 
Open Eyes's Avatar
Open Eyes Not a Unicorn, just another horse
 
Member Since: Mar 2011
Location: Northeast USA
Posts: 23,093 (SuperPoster!)
10 yr Member
21.3k hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Mar 19, 2020 at 03:06 PM
  #18
I found this article that describes what I believe I am hearing you describe of yourself. I am wondering if you may be suffering from Narcissistic Abuse Syndrome. As I mentioned, I am not a professional, however, I suffer from ptsd and can actually see myself in some of what is laid out in this article. (my older sister is a narcissist and major gaslighter).

Narcissistic Victim Syndrome: What The Heck Is That?

Last edited by Open Eyes; Mar 19, 2020 at 04:43 PM..
Open Eyes is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Thanks for this!
Kacknyne
Kacknyne
New Member
Kacknyne One day at a time
 
Member Since: Mar 2020
Location: Indiana
Posts: 9
3 yr Member
3 hugs
given
Default Mar 19, 2020 at 05:45 PM
  #19
Again thank you for all the insight and information. I will definitely be printing off these chats and taking them into my next therapy appt. I'm kind of starting over and reseting with my therapist. We have been focusing on the now and its basicly just me venting my feelings from current situations. But leaving the office with no real direction. It feels good in session, but more of like venting to a friend to get things off my chest. But 3 hours later I'm sitting here like, what did I gain from that.

I just want to thank you again for taking the time to chat with me and really ask some quality questions to make me think about my real issues.
Kacknyne is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Hugs from:
Open Eyes
Open Eyes
Legendary Wise Elder
 
Open Eyes's Avatar
Open Eyes Not a Unicorn, just another horse
 
Member Since: Mar 2011
Location: Northeast USA
Posts: 23,093 (SuperPoster!)
10 yr Member
21.3k hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Mar 19, 2020 at 06:45 PM
  #20
You are welcome (((Kacknyne))), that is what we are here for, we share what we have learned in our own efforts to get help.

YES!! I totally agree with how a session can be a lot of venting only to leave not feeling like anything got fixed or resolved. It's important to remember though that part of your healing comes from what you slowly learn from your venting. I don't think you have ever had a chance to vent like this, and you may have just stuffed a lot of your history not realizing you were engaging in a pattern that was going to put you in more situations that confused you even more.

The truth is you can't tame it until you name it and see the pattern you grabbed onto that kept you going from one hurt dysfunctional situation to the next.

I wanted to focus on the now and fix it, then as time went on I learned how the now had a lot to do with my past. That is the challenge that presents with what is called complex ptsd. This doesn't mean you are a bad person either, it often means you have been hurt in ways you did not realize were teaching you to develop survival techniques that tend to predespose you for similar hurts. Often, in many instances, you did the best you could considering the dysfunction taking place you had no way of controlling.

I can't say enough the incredible importance of being PATIENT with yourself and the healing you are finally going to be doing. It's not anything you can fix overnight.

You are welcome to come and post anytime. Often more questions come as you dig into it all. That's normal so again, patience is something you will need to learn to have with yourself and all of this.
Open Eyes is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Hugs from:
Kacknyne
 
Thanks for this!
Kacknyne
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:54 AM.
Powered by vBulletin® — Copyright © 2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.



 

My Support Forums

My Support Forums is the online community that was originally begun as the Psych Central Forums in 2001. It now runs as an independent self-help support group community for mental health, personality, and psychological issues and is overseen by a group of dedicated, caring volunteers from around the world.

 

Helplines and Lifelines

The material on this site is for informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis or treatment provided by a qualified health care provider.

Always consult your doctor or mental health professional before trying anything you read here.