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Default Jun 18, 2019 at 02:40 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Open Eyes View Post
...rather you can explain to her that you are set up to rationalize and problem solve as so many males do and she would best reach out to other women who can emotionalize with her in a sympathic way.
That's a good cover. I grew up around a lot of guys in the family, too, so my backstory even matches. What luck.

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Originally Posted by divine1966 View Post
She could be exaggerating all that she says about the guy. IÂ’ve met women who assume that guys are madly in love with them when itÂ’s not the case at all.

Too much drama for my taste. Especially at work
I spent some time with them last night. She's not exaggerating about him liking her, although I still think this whole thing is wildly unstable. Yes, very much drama.

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Default Jun 20, 2019 at 02:17 PM
  #42
I really think it depends on the situation, but I would rather have no one to talk to than someone not active listening to me because that would make me feel worse than I already am. At the same time, sometimes I just want someone to listen when I am in a crisis, not for empathy or anything, but just to be heard. I do not know if this helps because I do not know the situation but I hope you post about it so I can have a better response. I would say that you wanted emotional comfort so you want someone who will actually listen to what you are saying. At the same time, was the person you were communicating with mentally ready to hear what you were saying? Something to consider. Would love to hear more.
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Default Jun 20, 2019 at 02:44 PM
  #43
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I really think it depends on the situation, but I would rather have no one to talk to than someone not active listening to me because that would make me feel worse than I already am. At the same time, sometimes I just want someone to listen when I am in a crisis, not for empathy or anything, but just to be heard. I do not know if this helps because I do not know the situation but I hope you post about it so I can have a better response. I would say that you wanted emotional comfort so you want someone who will actually listen to what you are saying. At the same time, was the person you were communicating with mentally ready to hear what you were saying? Something to consider. Would love to hear more.
Thanks for the insight.

And I apologize for not being more clear in the original post. My cousins were grieving the loss of their father, and I was supposed to be giving emotional comfort to them, but I didn't know how to comfort them. I was basically asking if just listening to them would be enough, or if they were looking for something more.
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Default Jun 20, 2019 at 06:28 PM
  #44
theoretical, it's actually pretty common to not know how to comfort someone who is dealing with a loss. Usually just listening helps a lot. Yet people grieve differently, not everyone talks, some just sit quietly and say very little.
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Default Jun 21, 2019 at 01:53 PM
  #45
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theoretical, it's actually pretty common to not know how to comfort someone who is dealing with a loss. Usually just listening helps a lot. Yet people grieve differently, not everyone talks, some just sit quietly and say very little.
Yeah, I realize this. It's a skill, like most social interaction, but I've gotten the impression that there's something deeper missing. You know .... Emotions, those pesky little things.

Sure, I could learn to better mimic the appropriate emotional reactions in order to accommodate others' feelings, and this would probably be the "polite" thing to do, however manipulative. And that's why I was asking - would you rather me do this, even if it isn't genuine? Even if I can't empathize?

It's kind of a weird gray area for me, morally speaking, because in this instance, faking empathy would be the polite thing to do. I'm putting forth effort as a consideration of another's feelings, which is morally good (right?), but that effort is basically learning to lie better.
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Default Jun 21, 2019 at 04:03 PM
  #46
Not everyone can empathize appropriately though in different scenarios. So, in effect some people just do their best and follow the other person's lead.

Here is a way to consider what "loss" can mean to someone. If you have something you get used to using everyday, like your cell phone for example, if you suddenly lost that you would get upset am I right? Well, the human brain is like that where a person gets used to having a person in their life all the time and when that person is no longer there they have to get used to no longer having that person around and there is no way they can replace that either. The brain has a hard time adjusting to suddenly losing something that a person is so used to having around them. While you don't form emotional attachments, your brain can still struggle suddenly not having something you are so used to having in your life. So, in effect you can still feel discomfort even if its not one that also contains a lot of emotional loss as well. What would you experience if you used your cell phone constantly, it was important to how you lived your life and you suddenly lose it and there is no way you can get another one. It would mean you would have to learn to live your life very differently. How would that affect you? I am just trying to think of something you really worked your life around and then you suddenly lose it how that might affect you.
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Default Jun 21, 2019 at 04:51 PM
  #47
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Here is a way to consider what "loss" can mean to someone.
I understand, and yes, I can use cognitive empathy in lieu of genuine emotion. But it isn't going to be genuine or have any real depth, regardless of what I do. I'm just wondering if you would be okay with that, or perhaps you would prefer something else.

Take your parable of the bird in the horse stall, for example. You mentioned that you felt something which compelled you to assist the bird. I have no such feeling, and I wouldn't feel compelled to do anything about the bird. I still might, but it wouldn't be coming from any feelings of empathy, and no amount of rationalizing is going to change that. Likewise, when you see someone grieving, I'd imagine you feel something which compels you to help them, even if it's only offering a hug or a sympathy card. I just don't get that. And some people can tell that there's no genuine emotion behind the act.

Or maybe you don't feel anything and you send your condolences for some other reason? Social etiquette? I don't know why people do things...
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Default Jun 21, 2019 at 07:42 PM
  #48
Well, all you can do is learn about what things are important to others as best you can and as with what I described about the bird, yes, I felt for it and was driven to do something. You may not feel that way but at least you will know that other's will and not to tell them they are stupid for caring as was what I experienced.
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Exclamation Jun 22, 2019 at 03:08 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by theoretical View Post
Yeah, I realize this. It's a skill, like most social interaction, but I've gotten the impression that there's something deeper missing. You know .... Emotions, those pesky little things.

Sure, I could learn to better mimic the appropriate emotional reactions in order to accommodate others' feelings, and this would probably be the "polite" thing to do, however manipulative. And that's why I was asking - would you rather me do this, even if it isn't genuine? Even if I can't empathize?

It's kind of a weird gray area for me, morally speaking, because in this instance, faking empathy would be the polite thing to do. I'm putting forth effort as a consideration of another's feelings, which is morally good (right?), but that effort is basically learning to lie better.
I don't see it as morally grey at all. You're putting forth the effort to help others despite not having empathy, compassion or pity compelling you to do so.

Yes, you may be lying. But think if another person with a normal capacity for emotion were to console your friend instead of you, yet provided the same support. What would be the difference if the person you're supporting doesn't know your words are empty, in the sense you're not feeling what you're saying, nor are you feeling anything for them? Essentially, different motivations for helping people doesn't make what you say or do any less valuable to the person receiving it. In most contexts anyways.

There's also the fact that you're trying to help them in the first place, when many people, psychopath or not, simply don't care to, or offer "support" unhelpful to the recipient.

That being said, abstaining from helping others in instances you're not confident you can be of use in is also fine. You're acknowledging your limitations instead of trying to help someone you might not know how to. Many times, people with good intentions do that, and end up making the person they're trying to help feel worse.

Also, I have no proof of this. But I think most people would rather receive "autenthic" support than "inauthentic". But that's with the knowledge of knowing. It's also ignoring things like, what if the "inauthentic" support is more insightful to the person and the other one isn't, but is coming from a place of genuine feeling for the other? And again, in most instances, you don't know the motivations that people have for helping others. Different motivations when revealed, unless sinister, shouldn't change which support one would rather receive if the "inauthentic" one is more helpful. Imo, for people that would answer this type of question, it's mostly the idea of someone wired much differently than themselves and most of society, which could be uncomfortable (especially the term psycopath, which has a lot of negative preconceived notions surrounding it) that would sway them to prefering authentic support, even if it doesn't provide as much value.
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Default Jun 22, 2019 at 12:42 PM
  #50
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I don't see it as morally grey at all. You're putting forth the effort to help others despite not having empathy, compassion or pity compelling you to do so.

...

Essentially, different motivations for helping people doesn't make what you say or do any less valuable to the person receiving it. In most contexts anyways.
I hadn't thought of it that way. Yeah, I'm still helping people, and maybe it isn't compassion compelling me to do it, but I still want to help them, regardless. Thanks for the perspective!
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Default Jun 27, 2019 at 10:41 PM
  #51
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For those of you who haven't read my previous threads, I'm working on being more honest with others, but that's kind of difficult when people come looking for emotional support, and I have no idea how to handle their emotions. Don't get me wrong. I don't want to be a **** to people. It isn't like I'm mocking them behind their back while they're crying their eyes out on my shoulder or anything. I just don't really know what they want or how to give it to them.
It looks like you feel bad that they are going through hard times. I you feel bad for them, then that's really not a fake emotion.

If you are unsure on how to go about giving support, you can say,

"Hey, I'm really sorry you are going through this, but honestly, I really don't know how to support you. Maybe you can talk to _____?"
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Default Jun 28, 2019 at 02:50 AM
  #52
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It looks like you feel bad that they are going through hard times. I you feel bad for them, then that's really not a fake emotion.

If you are unsure on how to go about giving support, you can say,

"Hey, I'm really sorry you are going through this, but honestly, I really don't know how to support you. Maybe you can talk to _____?"
I don't feel much of anything. That's a good suggestion, though. Thanks.
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Default Jul 04, 2019 at 10:06 AM
  #53
[QUOTE=theoretical;6555953]Quick question: Suppose you were feeling very sad, grieving a loss or something along those lines, and looking for emotional comfort. Not logical, problem solving support, but comfort. A shoulder to cry on, if you will. Would you rather have inauthentic comfort than none at all? Does it even matter how the other person responds, or are you simply wanting to be heard?

I am in the grieving process with losing my grandma . I do not want any comments about how I should handle that situation it has not been an easy one for me.
The things that I had to cope and deal with have been very tough and I do not want anyone to tell me how to handle this. i rather just let myself heal
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Default Jul 13, 2019 at 08:53 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by theoretical View Post
Quick question: Suppose you were feeling very sad, grieving a loss or something along those lines, and looking for emotional comfort. Not logical, problem solving support, but comfort. A shoulder to cry on, if you will. Would you rather have inauthentic comfort than none at all? Does it even matter how the other person responds, or are you simply wanting to be heard?

I'll elaborate on the specific situation soon, but this came up rather abruptly, and I have to go to work.
I struggled with this myself!
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