I'll probably get banned for this post

Can anybody show evidence that "nobody is worthless"?

I know I'm worthless. No matter how nice I am to people, no matter how hard I try at work, no matter anything, I'm a failure at everything. My bosses are, at best, ambivalent about my job performance, and are often angry at me for things I tried very hard to do right. I have no friends. Nobody asks me to do friend things.

I tried going to church to make friends. Church is supposed to be a place where you feel welcome. I stuck with it for three years. I did church things, volunteered, tried talking with people. I finally gave up.. I got tired of leaving every service feeling lonely.

Some people *hate* me just because there's something unlikable about me. I'm often surprised by how much hatred there is. One coworker wrote a short story about killing me... when I reported it to my boss she ignored it.

I'm constantly baffled by the simplest things. I am literally the stupidest person I've ever known. I didn't understand basic bathroom hygiene until I was 12. I couldn't spell my own name until I was 13. Supposedly I was "gifted" but I was barely able to graduate high school.

I have never accomplished anything significant that I wanted. I cannot think of any way I've ever made the world a better place. Even worse, I'm a typical fatass American using up resources and leaving waste behind - I don't know how to live any other way.

Sometimes when I say these things people say "the common factor in all these situations is you". Well, yeah! That's my point... in all situations I've been in, the one common factor is that I'm not valued.

So... on what basis should I see any value in myself? Isn't it possible that some of us really are just worthless? I know people want to say that everyone as valuable. but those are just words. Can anybody show any reason I should think of myself any other way?

I don't think you should get banned and I think it's a legitimate question. Although maybe more appropriate for the Coping forum.

Very interesting question for sure. I think there's a distinction here between who is doing the valuing. I think it's subjective. We often feel we have no worth, personally, while others do value us.

I probably cannot convince you that you have worth or that you should feel you have worth. But I do see that you have worth. Even if the worth to me is that you brought something up that I find very valid and would greatly appreciate a discussion on, even just to benefit myself. So you have worth and value to me as a conversation starter and a person of thought and discussion.

I don't know you in other contexts so it's hard to say otherwise.

However, I also firmly believe that all life holds worth inherently, intrinsically. You have worth simply because you are a living being, in my opinion. A lot of people would ask why and want an explanation, and I can't tell you why beyond the simple fact that I hold all life at a high value. So regardless of your contribution to society, of your intellectual value, your personality, anything else, you will still hold value and WORTH to me as a living being, with a soul, and a heart. (Okay yes, I know a soul and heart are up for debate, that's not the point here, but you get it, I hope.)

I think you will find a lot of interesting rhetorical or theoretical discussions on the matter here. I am intrigued to hear other people's responses. I mean, how do we assign worth or value to each other or ourselves?

Seesaw had some well articulated points. I really like how they responded and I agree that you do have worth.

One has to work to be treated well and unfortunately for some of us we need to work harder than others. I don't know why. I was in my early 40s before I felt at all valued. Interestingly this coincided with the period I first embraced life. I did a great deal of things and in the course of that found myself beginning to make a great deal of acquaintances. It all came easier to me.

You haven't mentioned the context of your situation outside of work (that sounds awfully difficult). My suggestion is that, if you haven't already, you find ways to keep yourself busy and explore new horizons. This could be physical activities, this could be hobbies. The more you do the more rounded you become - and your personality and character will become more positive as a result. More positivity about ourselves seems to attract people to us. it also improves how we feel about ourselves.

So too does becoming a contributor. I like that you volunteered at your church. These often can be sources of comradeship but sometimes it backfires. Still, you really put yourself out there. I suggest taking that energy and willingness to contribute and meet people and volunteer elsewhere. Remember though, as soon as it feels like a job you are overdoing it.

I point this out again and again and that is my recommendations to observe and observe. Are there people you admire? Are there people you see as being successful? What are they doing that makes them this way? Are you able to model your own behaviour accordingly? Look at the people who aren't doing so well with relationships work and social. What are they doing that makes it this way? Are you able to learn from this and tweak your own behaviour as a result?

I really hope that some positive change can come your way. You have my pat on the back of encouragement.

You won’t get banned for this post. It is a welcome, valid concern and you are valued here. The post may get moved to a different area of the forum though. Don’t be alarmed if that happens.

I’ve been put here on Earth. I don’t know for what purpose. I try to be happy, hurt no one, find others who want to be around me (value me). That’s all I know.

you actually answered your own question

" I didn't understand basic bathroom hygiene until I was 12"

does that not mean that actually over the years you've grown and you've learnt stuff?

and hey: if we were all worthless and pointless, we'd be sitting on the floor, gurgling, crying and messing our diapers. their wouldn't be any computer, wouldn't be any comunication, wouldn't be any life, the fact that we've grown up and moved on says a lot

just because you're not a hollywood actor/ recording artist/ what ever, does not mean you've failed

even the fact you got replies here prove that people want to talk to you. if you didn't matter, you wouldn't get replies

and you're alive and still fighting. surely that says something too

You wont get banned for this. Have you thought about getting some counseling to help you feel better about yourself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tryingtobeconstruct Can anybody show evidence that "nobody is worthless"? I know I'm worthless. No matter how nice I am to people, no matter how hard I try at work, no matter anything, I'm a failure at everything. My bosses are, at best, ambivalent about my job performance, and are often angry at me for things I tried very hard to do right. I have no friends. Nobody asks me to do friend things. I tried going to church to make friends. Church is supposed to be a place where you feel welcome. I stuck with it for three years. I did church things, volunteered, tried talking with people. I finally gave up.. I got tired of leaving every service feeling lonely. Some people *hate* me just because there's something unlikable about me. I'm often surprised by how much hatred there is. One coworker wrote a short story about killing me... when I reported it to my boss she ignored it. I'm constantly baffled by the simplest things. I am literally the stupidest person I've ever known. I didn't understand basic bathroom hygiene until I was 12. I couldn't spell my own name until I was 13. Supposedly I was "gifted" but I was barely able to graduate high school. I have never accomplished anything significant that I wanted. I cannot think of any way I've ever made the world a better place. Even worse, I'm a typical fatass American using up resources and leaving waste behind - I don't know how to live any other way. Sometimes when I say these things people say "the common factor in all these situations is you". Well, yeah! That's my point... in all situations I've been in, the one common factor is that I'm not valued. So... on what basis should I see any value in myself? Isn't it possible that some of us really are just worthless? I know people want to say that everyone as valuable. but those are just words. Can anybody show any reason I should think of myself any other way?

A little analysis here......

Have you ever been diagnosed with the cause of your SLOW learning process as a child? Sometimes those issues are really the basis for understanding later struggles in life & understanding helps us focus on finding what our strengths are while accepting the weaknesses. We need to understand ourselves so we know we aren't worthless. Our basis of worthless should not be based on what others think but what we KNOW about ourselves.

I will comment on church from a church goers perspective. Church is not about going there to find friends. It is about bonding through having a common belief. If that common belief is not there....church is not just about a socially gathering & volunteering in worthy causes. It is all about having & sharing a common belief then everything else comes together.

My dad, though a nice person had a personality that caused people not to want to be around him. It took him a long time in his life to actually find what he was good at doing & do a good job doing it....but like most of us we don't accomplish truly significant things in our lifes. We are more like a finger on our hand that works with the other fingers to get just everyday things done.

I think if you get an actual diagnosis & start understanding yourself better rather than in the context of everyone else, you will be better able to put yourself in situations where you will be able to excel within your OWN capabilities & possible limitations. Just like you don't judge a fishes worth by the fact it can't climb a tree. We can't judge our own worth until we really know who & what we are actually capable of

I cant answer those questions in regards to you. what I can do is tell you that I have had times when I did not have any self worth (some locations call this self esteem).

when this happens I sit down and list all the good things about myself, not the good things that others may or may not see in me....

1.do I respect myself?
2.do I care physically about and for my self (hygiene, taking my meds, scheduling my appointments, attending my appointments....)
3. Do I stand up for whats right in my mental and physical care
4. do I have beliefs and standards and obey the laws of my household/ community / nation
5. are their any personal characteristics (hair style/ color, eyes, nose, mouth, the shape of my fingers or toes, this color looks good on me or that perfume/ cologne wears well on me.......) that I find to my liking.

sometimes I even google the words self worth and self esteem and match my body and mind to its definitions and examples...

have I stood up against injustice for myself or others, yes check.
have I achieved good things? yes yesterday I completed a goal that I have been working on for ages. it felt good to accomplish that. Check

in other words we cant tell you whether you have worth or not, worth and esteem are things that you give yourself, if you feel you are not worth something then no one is going to be able to convince you other wise.

suggestion maybe look at your posts and you may see some things in it about yourself that makes you feel good about yourself.... for example was your post compassionate, supportive if so this says you are a kind compassionate, supportive person. another example did any of your replies tell someone to break the laws, if not then that says you have a moral set of beliefs, and understanding of whats right and wrong. many times just going through my posts will show me that I do have a sense of self worth/ self esteem when Im feeling I dont.

The OP sounds like I feel A LOT of the time. I want to mean something, but I don't. I just don't

Clearly you may be worthless in the eyes of certain others but you are not objectively worthless. All humans have the potential to do amazing things even if it is just flipping a switch. I never feel like this because I guess I just have very low standards for myself. When I do something as simple as hang a photo, I am "THRILLED" with myself. Most of the time I don't care what others think.

First thought, I see you are in eastern us. I happen to share your misfortune and I can tell you that people are unusually mean and frosty here. I lived in the midwest for a bit and it was just amazing. Everyone just wanted to be my friend. When I retire I will be looking for a nice place like that. You have to know this anti friendliness isn't a reflection on you. I am amazing and I have no friends and I am pretty sure that if I went to church no one would talk to me either. I think it is cultural in this area, even more closer to the east coast

For example, I have served on two boards in my condo. I always assumed I should make one friend in the 8 or 9 neighbors I have worked with. But no. None, and I mean, none, are interested in making friends. They just want to do the job and go do whatever they want to do. Even if they are single. Do not get.

One thing I see - especially in mass - is a weird friendship thing. Often I find people who have the most and the best friends to be horrible humans. They find other humans who want to talk badly about others and "feed" negativity and this brings them together. If you aren't that way, they sense it and don't want to be around you or hate you.

For myself I do it too. I am wary of everyone in this area so, basically, I am just never going to offer anything friendly. Been there, paid the price for even looking in someone's direction. Just best to keep my eyes down and stubbornly go about my business.

You have value proportional to what you can offer to others. I don't believe people have intrinsic values. To themselves, maybe, but not in relation to others, which is more important because what's the benefit of feeling you have intrinsic value, while others avoiding you. We need to live with others while feeling valued and respected.

Some people try to depict the picture that humans are god-like and not selfish beings, but life is just about who can advance your interests.

This maybe as negative picture, but I think this is the reality, and most people deny it or don't even think about it, because people don't like to think of themselves as selfish self-centered beings. It doesn't make them feel good.

All humans have worth in the sense that what we all do as individuals affects others like a ripple effect even when we do not personally see or feel those positive results. I like to learn everyone's name wherever I frequent. I learned almost all the names of the people I deal with around town. One consistently grumpy woman was just not warming to me in anyway and I got her name. Now I am able to greet her by name at the register or in the store. The other day she smiled at me! I was shocked. I didn't assume she hated me, or anyone. But maybe my consistent friendliness made her feel something worthwhile in the long run. I could have gotten annoyed or indignant over her attitude over these months but I kept trying. We do affect each other and we may not ever be privy to the ways we affect one another. I cant prove your worth because its subjective and intangible. But I guarantee its there.

My mother has a similar personality. At 84, she still thinks she's worthless. Blames it on her mother's child-raising skills.

I know that the old saying "be yourself, everyone else is taken" may not be the right thing to say.

I agree with other posters who've suggested finding something that you're really good at. It will build your self-esteem. Don't ever think you've got to change to please everyone. Sometimes it's good to stand out from the crowd. I find forums can be a good way of establishing rapport whilst you build confidence to be yourself.

I'm a female plane spotter (passenger ones). I've met some really interesting people either online or near my local airport (in the UK). Whilst we haven't forged any lasting friendships or met again, there's a rapport which builds knowledge and confidence.

For what it's worth, I'm sooo grateful to you for bringing this up.

For a long time, I only dreaded the sort of reactions from others that boiled down to any distress or disappointment somehow being my own fault (because I don't try hard enough, because I have unrealistic expectations, because I'm too clueless to see the danger, to spineless to stand up for myself, whatever)

But then, eventually I grew to dread supportive reactions as well. I tend to have much trouble believing them, but if I let people know that then I'm a downer and toxic and attention-seeking and whatnot ... when I joined forums and therapy groups where we would tell each other we're worthy and important etc ... for a while it worked - I thought, great, we're supposed to be supportive of each other, so I could tell myself that if I want to accept this person with similar feelings then I can be more accepting of myself too. But after a while it turned around - instead of it becoming easier to believe these things about myself, they started to get harder to believe when telling them to others ... but I was too scared to tell anyone, because ... that would be being negative, and maybe they'd feel rejected and worthless, and would regret trying to talking to me at all etc ... so I tried to focus on being grateful for the good intent even while part of me wanted to scream at them because HOW THE HELL DO THEY KNOW, and trying to say the same kind of nice things back and hoping no-one will notice that I don't actually believe what I'm saying ... feeling like a fraud all the while ... then I believed them even less, because maybe others were doing the same, saying those things just because we're supposed to support each other, while feeling bad for questioning their honesty just because I am a fraud and ... I grew to dread those sort of responses as well

It's such a relief that you had the guts to openly address this. And it's also a relief to see such thoughtful responses. Sure, it's a beautiful belief that every human being has an inherent worth, and if someone can hold onto that, like I wish I could, that's great for them, but to me, life tells otherwise.

I have times of relief from these feelings of worthlessness, though - sometimes I contribute to something beautiful, or create somehting that's always too flawed to really be proud of, but still there's a tangible appreciation for it, or manage to do something to make someone else feel better / progress with their goals. And sometimes I just get immersed enough in whatever I'm doing that I don't feel the need to think about whether there's a point and whether it's worth anything. This can be a good thing (finding the 'flow' in meaningful or necessary activities) or not (addictive stuff / compulsive behaviours). On the other end of the spectrum, sometimes I wish I could just accept that I'm truly and utterly worthless and then I could finally give up and quit struggling

I'm sorry that you are struggling right now! I'm going through this with YouTube and in my own family. Have you thought about looking for positive quotes for emotional abuse to recite. None of the things that you wrote are true and it is hard not to believe that when so many people are saying horrible thing to you. Have our gone to the police about the coworker threaten to murder you?

You're a living, breathing, being. That should be enough.

I don't have much to addo to what ALL the other wise, wonderful posters have already eloquently and beautifully posted before me BETTER THAN I EVER COULD! I do hope you're doing ok, @tryingtobeconstruct! You're not worthless! You're breathing, you're trying your best to get through Life! Please don't compare yourself to others! You're your own unique individual and just because you may be different in some aspects doesn't make you worse- I'd say quite the opposite! We all do care about you here and I'm certain NOBODY and I mean NOBODY here thinks you're worthless if that makes you feel better! Please be kind to yourself! You DO have value and you ARE worth it! Please ALWAYS remember that and do NOT listen to anyone who's saying the opposite, ok? You are important, you matter, you're worth it and you're WONDERFUL! THAT'S A PROMISE! Please ALWAYS remember that there ARE people who care about you, BOTH here and probably IRL as well! Just surround yourself with the people that truly DO Love you for who you TRULY are! KEEP FIGHTING AND KEEP ROCKING LIKE YOU'RE ALREADY WONDERFULLY DOING ALL AND ENTIRELY BY YOURSELF! Sending many safe, warm hugs to BOTH You, @tryingtobeconstruct, Your Family, Your Friends and ALL Of Your Loved Ones who TRULY Love You and Accept You for WHO YOU TRULY ARE! Sending hugs to @corbie as well since it seems like she's struggling A LOT as well unfortunately! YOU BOTH MATTER VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY MUCH! THAT'S A PROMISE, THAT'S ABSOLUTELY TRUE AND YOU KNOW THAT!

Every one and everything has an existence and so has worth.Sometimes we are unable to see it.

this really resonates with me. i struggle with these feelings and with all going on in my life these last few months the feelings of worthlessness have sprung up worse than before. my ex partner and current roommate is belittling and i think to make himself feel better about his own poor decisions he shoves my past mistakes and nc family in my face. so these horrible feelings are lived in perpetually.

Thank you for bringing this issue up. There may be some who devalue you to the extent of thinking you are worthless. However I believe you’re a breathing, living being and because of that you have value. You also brought up an interesting question.