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Default Jul 11, 2019 at 01:29 PM
  #1
There are days that I feel like a terrible excuse for a human being. I ruminate on the mean things I have said and done... the dumb mistakes I have made... the times I've expressed biased and/or prejudicial thoughts- or just had them.


I've shared these thoughts with my wife and therapist and they both argue with me and tell me that I'm way too hard on myself, and that I ruminate about past mistakes way too much.

Do you struggle with similar thoughts? What solutions have you found? Or if you haven't had similar thoughts, what advice would you give me?

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Last edited by shakespeare47; Jul 11, 2019 at 02:25 PM..
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Default Jul 11, 2019 at 03:57 PM
  #2
I would read abou descansos by Clarissa Pinkola Estes Tangled Sky
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Default Jul 11, 2019 at 04:02 PM
  #3
"What a piece of work is man
How noble in reason
How infinite in faculties
In form and moving
How express and admirable
In action how like an angel
In apprehension how like a god
The beauty of the world
The paragon of animals
I have of late
But wherefore I know not
Lost all my mirth
This goodly frame
The earth
Seems to me a sterile promontory
This most excellent canopy
The air-- look you!
This brave o'erhanging firmament
This majestical roof
Fretted with golden fire
Why it appears no other thing to me
Than a foul and pestilent congregation
Of vapors
What a piece of work is man
How noble in reason"


Quote:
Originally Posted by shakespeare47 View Post
There are days that I feel like a terrible excuse for a human being. I ruminate on the mean things I have said and done... the dumb mistakes I have made... the times I've expressed biased and/or prejudicial thoughts- or just had them.


I've shared these thoughts with my wife and therapist and they both argue with me and tell me that I'm way too hard on myself, and that I ruminate about past mistakes way too much.

Do you struggle with similar thoughts? What solutions have you found? Or if you haven't had similar thoughts, what advice would you give me?

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Default Jul 11, 2019 at 04:22 PM
  #4
I am a terrible person.
Sometimes it bothers me. Sometimes it doesn't.
Recognising that everyone else is also rubbish too helps - being pathetic and error prone is just part of being human.
Also my religious views help.

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Default Jul 11, 2019 at 04:29 PM
  #5
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Originally Posted by Pygmalion View Post
I am a terrible person.
Sometimes it bothers me. Sometimes it doesn't.
Recognising that everyone else is also rubbish too helps - being pathetic and error prone is just part of being human.
Also my religious views help.
But I have met some good people.... come to think of it, they had some pretty severe flaws, too. I'm having a hard time coming up with people who didn't also express some biases. I wish there were good examples. I'll have to cogitate on this for a while (were there good examples that I have missed?)


How do your religious views help?

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Default Jul 11, 2019 at 04:40 PM
  #6
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Originally Posted by shakespeare47 View Post
But I have met some good people.... come to think of it, they had some pretty severe flaws, too. I'm having a hard time coming up with people who didn't also express some biases. I wish there were good examples. I'll have to cogitate on this for a while (were there good examples that I have missed?)


How do your religious views help?
Everyone is flawed. Even the best. Humans are imperfect. And even if someone seems awesome now just give them time. They'll mess up sooner or later.

My religious views give me cosmic optimism - it'll all be ok for everyone in the end. We will all get to be awesome in time.

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Default Jul 11, 2019 at 05:20 PM
  #7
I also personally struggle with this, especially when I am alone and at night time. I always overthink and re-think things that I have failed with in my past and the mistakes that I have made. I too hear other people tell me that I am hard on myself, I learned that I need to accept the positive comments and believe them. Something that has helped for me is write down three positive things each day, and it helps myself keep the negative thoughts out of my mind. Hope this helps, and hope you find something that works!
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Default Jul 11, 2019 at 05:32 PM
  #8
Well, I have 2 thoughts on your post. Hope this might help a bit.
So first, I find that when my depression gets me and I don't have a "logical" reason for normal sadness, it's like my mind goes looking for a thought to match how I feel. That's when a take a "trip down memory lane" gathering up bad thoughts. I am not always successful but I try to remind myself that these thoughts are just me trying to match what my chemical imbalance is doing physically. Then I can either try to push them out if I can or just let them happen and accept that this isn't a real external thing happening to me right now, but a real internal thing, and I will be OK eventually.
The other thing is that it sounds like both your wife and therapist need to understand that depression is not something they can argue with. They can't fix you with a few words. They can't fix you at all. It would be like trying to talk someone out of being diabetic because in a similar way, depression is a chemical problem in your body. The best thing they can do is accept and support you. That at least doesn't add to the problem.
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Default Jul 11, 2019 at 05:35 PM
  #9
I've heard mindfulness can help people stop ruminating and living in the past. Have you ever tried any mindfulness exercises? There is a lot of information out there on it.
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Default Jul 11, 2019 at 06:02 PM
  #10
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Originally Posted by WpgMom View Post
Well, I have 2 thoughts on your post. Hope this might help a bit.
So first, I find that when my depression gets me and I don't have a "logical" reason for normal sadness, it's like my mind goes looking for a thought to match how I feel. That's when a take a "trip down memory lane" gathering up bad thoughts. I am not always successful but I try to remind myself that these thoughts are just me trying to match what my chemical imbalance is doing physically. Then I can either try to push them out if I can or just let them happen and accept that this isn't a real external thing happening to me right now, but a real internal thing, and I will be OK eventually.
The other thing is that it sounds like both your wife and therapist need to understand that depression is not something they can argue with. They can't fix you with a few words. They can't fix you at all. It would be like trying to talk someone out of being diabetic because in a similar way, depression is a chemical problem in your body. The best thing they can do is accept and support you. That at least doesn't add to the problem.
Thank you for the support! But you should know that I find it encouraging when my wife and therapist tell me that I'm being too hard on myself. I tend to think they're on to something. I'm grateful that they see good in me- that they see me as someone worthy of their good opinion.

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Default Jul 11, 2019 at 09:13 PM
  #11
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I've heard mindfulness can help people stop ruminating and living in the past. Have you ever tried any mindfulness exercises? There is a lot of information out there on it.
I have tried it- pretty consistently for a month or 2 a couple of years ago. It wasn't like an, "oh my gosh I'm cured!" moment. But it was okay. I might try it again. I was especially drawn to the "loving kindness" meditations. I had hoped that they would help me change my attitude towards other people.

The mindfulness meditations didn't make things worse (but sometimes they caused some pain, because they reminded me of how my mental life is, and how it could be...), and I like the message.


This is a good one: YouTube

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Last edited by shakespeare47; Jul 11, 2019 at 09:45 PM..
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Default Jul 12, 2019 at 03:05 AM
  #12
I have found that some self hypnosis stuff onyoutube has genuinely helped me with my self esteem.
Along with positive affirmations and getting some easy wins (losing a bit of weight or something).
I also find some asmr stuff very helpful for my mental state - just being to,d I'm ok in a soothing voice is very nice.

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Default Jul 13, 2019 at 03:01 PM
  #13
Oh OK. Well if what they are saying is working then that is good. I was just thinking of my experience where people have tried to "cheer me up" and when I am not instantly "fixed" they get frustrated. It's exhausting having to pretend to be happy for other people.
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Default Jul 18, 2019 at 11:16 AM
  #14
I was thinking about it, and I find the only thing that helps me is what I can only describe as the opposite of mindfulness. I pretty much fill my brain with stressless chatter from podcasts. I just don't let my brain decide what i am going to think about and that way it can't take me places that are not helpful. It's clearly not a cure for anything, more like taking an aspirin for a headache, but it is a bit of relief in the moment. I like to listen to light, funny podcasts.
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Default Jul 18, 2019 at 12:17 PM
  #15
I don't have a lot of advice to give to you, @shakespeare47, unfortunately! Just remember that you're human and that humans makes mistakes. Focus on your future. Things can still improve. You can't change your past but you CAN change your future. That's important to remember in my opinion. Other than that I don't have much to offer you I'm here if you need support though. Feel free to PM me anytime, ok? I'll be here for you. Please try to be kind to yourself. Remember that everyone has good qualities with no exceptions. If you can only think about your flaws, then just remember that your flaws are an EXTENSION of your qualities. For every flaw you think of yourself there's also a quality. I hope that helps a little bit! Please hang in there and be kind to yoruself! Sending many safe, warm hugs to you, shaekspeare47, and to ALL the people you Love and who TRULY Love you and Accept you for who you TRULY are! PLEASE NEVER GIVE UP HOPE AND KEEP FIGHTING AS MUCH AS YOU POSSIBLY CAN!
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Default Jul 18, 2019 at 12:56 PM
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There are days that I feel like a terrible excuse for a human being. I ruminate on the mean things I have said and done... the dumb mistakes I have made... the times I've expressed biased and/or prejudicial thoughts- or just had them.
Stop it.

Quote:
Do you struggle with similar thoughts? What solutions have you found? Or if you haven't had similar thoughts, what advice would you give me?
I have no such struggles. I see mistakes as learning opportunities. Supposing I made a mistake, I would think to myself, "Why have I made this mistake? What have I done wrong? How can I make the correct choices in the future?" If I'm unable to come up with a solution on my own, I'll ask someone who's better than me for advice on whatever I need help with. Don't look into the past unless it's to help you understand the present and to improve for the future.

If you catch yourself pitying yourself, simply remember that pity never solved the problem. We ought to concern ourselves with the truth, not with protecting our own ego.

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I'm having a hard time coming up with people who didn't also express some biases. I wish there were good examples.
Marcus Aurelius. Actually, his journal, Meditations, has a lot of insights on the matter.

It's a Stoic habit to keep a daily journal wherein you record and reflect on your actions. The idea is not to dwell on the past, but to better understand how you can improve, and also to see how much you've improved over time.
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Default Jul 19, 2019 at 08:22 AM
  #17
@shakespeare47
I didnt mean to be weird. Because of your name I quoted Hamlet.

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Default Jul 19, 2019 at 10:05 AM
  #18
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@shakespeare47
I didnt mean to be weird. Because of your name I quoted Hamlet.
Not at all. I don't actually know all that much about Shakespeare. When I first registered at this site, I realized that my usual username was unavailable, so I just chose another one at random. But I did read your quote. I like it.

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Default Jul 21, 2019 at 01:33 AM
  #19
I was especially dull in elementary school. While I didn't struggle much in academics, I was not in tune with common sense and social etiquette. I was thoughtlessly rude, and I suppose kids have less of a filter, but my not-so-good moments were utterly cringe-worthy at best. I had a long-time friend in elementary school, and just for a moment I considered it dull. So as were walking I said out of the blue: "We're not friends anymore." Something like that. She didn't do anything wrong, but it was a time when I was ignorant of the value and rarity of best friends. I don't recall the details but she ran away crying. Little kid me didn't feel bad. And then of course she found better friends and together they exacted a revenge served very cold. I look back at it and appreciate it a little, despite my rather public breakdown in the classroom. I digress.

I was, of course, unlikable. Zero friends in the next elementary school that I transferred to, after breaking into the metaphorical door and throwing out the key. I had two friends, one I pissed off by reading the situation wrong and saying it was stupid of her older sister to style her hair in a way that she seemed not to agree with. In hindsight it was more of an endeared dislike than anything else. Then I pissed her off even more after oh-so-aptly realizing she digged me back and saying: "You're just saying that because I called x stupid." Oh and then there was the time when I eavesdropped on their deep conversation about their crush/es. They realized I was there and the very same girl I insulted gave me the silent treatment. The second friend, who I'll call J, was much more forgiving in that department. I had the gall to try to mediate their argument during recess, months after our friendship was dead and gone. And yet she invited me to her Halloween party or something like that, which my mom was too busy to allow. I declined, and that was the end of any interactions whatsoever from what I can recall. Even when I was being a decent-ish person I did not make a good friend. For some reason my newly procured - and quickly lost - friend T and I were carrying spare pants as we walked down the hall. In complete belief in my words, I told her how embarrassing it was to do so in front of others and lets hurry. So she became embarrassed too. I didn't engender confidence whatsoever.

And then there was S. By that time even I fully acknowledged that no one tried making friends with me, nor were they receptive. Even the ex-friend H, who I lived in the same neighborhood with. Yeah that's another story altogether. Anyway, she approached me and we were friends for some time, but my sense of humor was absolute . . . poop. The unbelievably smelly kind. I told her - it physically hurts me to think about and say this - but I told her things like: "Wouldn't it be funny if you fell off a building?" No, my shtick was not dark humor. But it was my new way of fortifying the bridge of friendship, so to speak. In time it burned. Hard.

Oh and I also had friends E and M in my first elementary school - we were longtime friends, I think, but while we were playing tag some boy was running down the hill and kid me thought it would be a marvelous idea to stick my arm out horizontally to intercept his stomach. Of course it didn't go well. And then like a little . . . minx, I blamed it on poor M. I really tried, too. Of course the truth prevailed and I was unceremoniously kicked from the group. Then a few weeks later, they asked, "Do you want to be friends again?" I said no. To this day I don't understand why. It's absolutely baffling. I had no friends and I wondered why.

Anddd another thing to cringe over were my other friends, between the girl that I ended the friendship with and her excellent revenge, L and Y. I liked L simply because she was more pretty IMO than Y, and so I recalled giving her something that I promised to give Y. And she was not as attached as I thought either, considering that she said she's moving and bam she was gone. Y was the closer friend that I disregarded several times. It culminated in an even more emotional separation than that of the little avenger. We were walking the track on a field day and someone gropes my butt. Past my pants and underwear. I freeze for some time and I thoroughly regret not catching that hand and finding the culprit. I walked again and it receded. I looked behind me. Only a gaggle of blonde-haired popular girls - certainly not the type to grope me, I thought. Then I looked to Y. The more I thought about it the more I condemned her. I never asked her if she did it - or maybe I did, and she definitely denied. Regardless, I separated myself from her over the next few days. I emulated TT, the main avenger of the Revenge Served Cold, by hiding from Y during recess instead of womaning up and having an honest conversation.

My only saving grace that slightly resisted my subsequent cringe sessions was that I never told anyone else of my suspicions. I let people believe I was a terrible person as Y received emotional solace and sympathy. But there was also B, to whom I thought would be a good idea to ram into a park bench with a wagon. Needless to say, it was the final straw. He hated me after that. And then there was his older sister, who I for a time tickled on a regular basis in the bus. At one point she just started dreading it. Ugh. I'll call her C. Her family didn't like me either, to put it nicely, near the end of our stay in the state.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So cringe sessions. It didn't matter if it was a school night, I laid awake and cringed over my most prominent mistakes, and the sheer number of bridges I burned. And with the highly inappropriate way I intentionally forwent some sort of bra under my shirt for H's dad to see. And how there were times when my words were poison to my mom. Did I also mention I was lacking in table manners? This was all in elementary school. I was better in middle school but then I was griping my "friends" about the nutrition of their food. Ugh! Anyway . . . I spent countless hours reliving these moments, big and small, and wondering what the hell I was thinking, and hoping they would just forget about me so their childhood memories wouldn't be tarnished with my unpleasant presence. I struggled from middle school to half of high school with the cringes and slight, but mostly insignificant self-loathing. In those sessions I thought "I'm sorry", again and again even though I knew they'd never hear me. I cried too sometimes. There are numerous other instances of this kind of behavior, as well as actions so shameful I'm completely unwilling to post it on here. I vowed to improve myself, and I did. It gives me some peace of mind, to believe that although I've committed so many heinous errors I'm a much better and decent person now.


TL;DR
I made a lot of mistakes. I've agonized over them. And since I've improved myself they don't cling to me as much. But most of all, I accepted them. I accepted that I hurt people, practically tarnished their memories, and led a despicably cringy life and I let it go. I also forgave myself. I realized I metaphorically beat myself up enough and that I've thoroughly reflected for years. I didn't ruin their lives, and I'm a nice-ish and decent person in the present. I can't change the past, but I can help people in the present and future.

And through this long-winded reply I hope you'll find something that'll help you.
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Default Aug 09, 2019 at 01:59 PM
  #20
This article has some interesting insights. It's about that inner critic we all have. Long story short- instead of trying to silence that inner critic- see it for what it is- a useful ally. But first, you'll have to learn to distance yourself from the critic.


[QUOTE ] The solution isn't to shut down the critic, suggests research by Ethan Kross, of the University of Michigan's Emotion & Self Control Lab, and his colleague Ozlem Ayduk, of the University of California, Berkeley. It won't work; the voice will return no matter how hard you try to suppress it. Nor is it always effective to analyze the emotions it rouses; that opens you to the risk of ruminating or reliving those feelings and getting stuck in a negative cycle. The best intervention may be to respond to its grievances from a detached perspective—almost as if you were another person. [/QUOTE]

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A New Image

Margot felt sick about the incident at the playground. A moment after arriving with her 2-year-old son, she noticed that a group of teenage bicyclists had unlatched the gate behind her. "Hey!" she said, advancing toward them with hands on hips. "Read the sign! No bikes allowed!" In a flash she found herself exchanging heated words with five or six of the young men while their friends rode in circles around her wide-eyed toddler and other kids. Startled, Margot pulled out her phone and waved it in the air. The teens, who were black, froze and glared at her, a white woman, understanding her implicit threat to call the police, before pedaling toward the exit.
Later, Margot couldn't stop thinking about the shock, fear, and outrage on the boys' faces. Idiot! her inner critic screeched. There are a trillion better ways I could have handled that. Here I am, making the world worse.
Margot's mistake was the sort that could be a springboard for self-growth, says Dolly Chugh, a social psychologist at New York University's Stern School of Business. But if beating herself up over it is all she does, she'll either conclude that she's a bungling bigot at her core or she'll do a 180 and insist that she is a good person and in the right. We tend to think of the self in a simplistic binary way, Chugh says—good or not, honest or not, fair or not. It's a false dichotomy, of course, but many of us hew to it unconsciously.
While most people see their core self as good, some take the opposite tack. When certain individuals are confronted with their unethical misdeeds, like ostracizing others, they begin to see themselves as "bad," or even less than human. To compensate for a mistake and restore a positive self-image, someone like Margot might work to be more socially conscious. But sometimes wrongdoers, especially those who feel powerless or disconnected from others, internalize a bad self-image, according to research by Northwestern University's Maryam Kouchaki and others, and come to believe that they're damaged at the core. When this shift occurs, they're likelier to commit subsequent offenses.
Taking refuge in the "good-person" self-image that most of us have, Chugh says, is not a solution, either: It leaves us with no room to fail, which means no room to grow. All we need is someone or some situation to suggest we're not sufficiently fair, ambitious, responsible, motivated, maternal, paternal, or good, and our defenses go up, leading us to deny, self-justify, deflect, and minimize blame. It's one thing to be self-critical; it's quite another for others to criticize us.
Instead of "good" or "bad," Chugh suggests, we need to start thinking of ourselves as good-ish, a term she introduces in her book, The Person You Mean to Be. Good-ish embraces the idea that the self is error-prone and conflicted, yet strives to be better. It's a rejection of a fixed "good person" image—like the one the inner critic pushes us toward—in favor of the idea that we are a work in progress. Good-ish encourages us to take risks, make mistakes, and, most important, learn from them. The emphasis is not on who you are, but who you're becoming.
To make this shift, Chugh advises that people activate a new, growth-oriented inner voice that stands opposite the self-critic. Elena's inner critic might insist that she's bad at interviews; Margot's might call her stupid. But a growth-oriented voice could respond with self-compassion and forgiveness for a mistake, followed by encouragement: What can you learn from this?
If Margot had channeled a growth-oriented voice instead of her inner critic, the playground episode could have ended in revelation instead of recrimination. That voice would have asked the crucial questions, What were the boys seeing and hearing in the interaction? Why do you think you reacted that way? What was their perspective? In embracing such a mindset, she'd lay the groundwork for self-improvement rather than dwelling on feelings of self-loathing or defensiveness. That voice, Chugh says, could have also asked her what she'd do differently next time; if she would have responded the same way if the boys were white; or whether an African American mother would have done what she did. "Then, hopefully, she'd share her reflections with others," Chugh adds, because that's how personal growth leads to social change.
Wilson calls this sort of incremental self-growth "do good, be good." If we consistently act the part of the person we'd like to be, we can methodically work to overcome the parts of ourselves that hold us back. Say your protective and disapproving critic prevents you from being the sort of person who speaks up more. In the past, Wilson says, it might have told you that you're just not the type, or that you'll come across as attention-seeking and embarrass yourself. A growth-oriented voice, once it's been embraced, can instead pipe up and tell you to seize every opportunity to be heard—to speak up at meetings and parties, to step to the microphone during Q-and-A sessions, or to make small talk on public transportation, even if it initially seems tedious or unpleasant.
"The day will come when you'll think, I guess I am that type sometimes," Wilson says, "and you'll be more likely to speak up next time, and the time after that." Eventually, it will feel more natural to engage people or to share your reflections and insights, because you'll start to see yourself as more outspoken. It begins with a conscious choice to let the growth-oriented voice speak louder than the critic.

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My business is to teach my aspirations to conform themselves to fact, not to try and make facts harmonise with my aspirations. T.H. Huxley
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