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Default Aug 04, 2019 at 04:34 PM
  #1
Nothing!

Ehem. Anyway.

Over the past few years, I've gotten the impression that I'm unable to form deeply held beliefs or character traits. I pretend at these things all the time, and I change character traits and beliefs faster than normal people change their wardrobe. Nothing ever really sticks. I think developing a strong identity requires a level of emotional depth that I simply don't have.

Some time ago, I made a comment in another post along the lines of, "To the expert deceiver, truth and lies serve the same function - to convince you of something." At the time, it was just kind of a flippant remark. Upon reflection, I think there was a lot more truth to that statement than I had originally intended. I began this exercise as a way to be more honest about myself, but I've come to realize that truth has no more meaning to me than lies. That is, when I "open up" to someone about who I really am and what experiences I've had, it doesn't mean anything to me. Though it does seem to have a profound impact on them. Strange.

I don't know what to do about that. I'm just musing.
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Default Aug 04, 2019 at 04:45 PM
  #2
Does it hinder your everyday life, socially, professionally, ... etc?
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Default Aug 04, 2019 at 05:13 PM
  #3
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Originally Posted by Nxious View Post
Does it hinder your everyday life, socially, professionally, ... etc?
No, yes, maybe.

Socially - When people try to get close to me, they don't seem to understand that I can't reciprocate any sort of bonding. When that fact finally sinks in, they tend not to react very well. A lot of people have also told me that they find it hard to know the "real" me. Counterintuitively, this gets more frequent as I try to be open about myself. So yeah, it can make close personal relationships a bit difficult.

Professionally - There's usually enough distance that people don't try to form these close bonds. Nonetheless, given enough time, some people can still "see through the mask," as it were, especially if they find me in a different social context.
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Default Aug 04, 2019 at 07:26 PM
  #4
Can you keep yourself at distance from others and be OK with it? Does it bother you when people distance themselves from you?

Bonding is not my strongest asset as I have (social) anxiety and probably a form of Asperger's, because I cannot read the social cues well. I do and say stupid things when I shouldn't. So, to get started socially and professional for me has been a challenge. Real challenge. For you it seems the problem is more when people get to know you.

But believe or not, most people change who they are on the outside to get by. I don't think authenticity and personal identity is something common in modern society. People in the most part are fake. Fraud. From my experience everything in life is about how good you are in making others believe what you want them to believe to make your life easier. As you may have noticed, telling the truth doesn't set well with people. They want you to be someone they imagine in their head, someone perfect, ideal, not someone who she/he is. Even when you reach out not necessarily for help but to say how you feel and how your thought process goes, the first thing they say is to ask you to change to their norms, to see a therapist who can "fix" your "divergence" from the norm.

People are who they are. Their genetic make up and past experiences have shaped who they are. Controlling change is a myth. Free will is a myth. The problem is in acceptance. In accommodating differences.
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Default Aug 05, 2019 at 07:29 AM
  #5
If you don’t enjoy bonding and it’s not something that you naturally gravitate, then why are seeking bonding with people?

You sound like you want to be someone you aren’t. Someone who is able to be authentic and naturally connect with people.

I personally don’t think people change and doubt they need to. Wherever you go there you are. No number of methods of strategies will change who you are. You can change your behavior to an extend but how is that authentic?

If you need to pretend to maintain civility and avoid trouble with people at work and casual acquaintances and public in general then it’s understandable and makes sense as we all do it to an extend even if we aren’t psychopaths. You can’t have close connections/relationships while pretending to feel something. If you really don’t feel it .

If you truly are a psychopath (which I am not 100% sure) I dare to say that psychopaths likely don’t form close authentic loving connections with others because they likely cannot.

Can you enjoy your life without bonding/close friendships/relationships? Hobbies? Learning? Helping others without bonding? Career?

I hope your t can help with all this
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Default Aug 05, 2019 at 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Nxious View Post
Can you keep yourself at distance from others and be OK with it? Does it bother you when people distance themselves from you?
1. Yes. 2. It depends on who they are.

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I don't think authenticity and personal identity is something common in modern society. People in the most part are fake. Fraud. From my experience everything in life is about how good you are in making others believe what you want them to believe to make your life easier.
Baudrillard would agree, and I certainly think it's a sign of an increasingly materialistic society that so many people measure their identity and worth by what they own. What car they drive isn't merely a tool of transportation, but a status symbol, something which indicates where they are on the hierarchy of vapid yuppies. But there are also many who value instead things like family and integrity, and who are unimpressed by the material possessions or the supposed statuses of others. So ... not everyone drank the kool-aid.

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If you don’t enjoy bonding and it’s not something that you naturally gravitate, then why are seeking bonding with people?
I'm not really interested in bonding. Someone bonding with me is simply a consequence of us spending time together and getting to know each other on a more personal level. I do very much like hanging out with people and getting to know them. I just don't bond with them. Apparently people think this is callous for some reason.

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You can’t have close connections/relationships while pretending to feel something. If you really don’t feel it.
Yeah, so my plan has been to stop pretending, and instead be open about the fact that I don't feel emotionally connected to people. If they want to continue hanging out with me despite this, then great. I can be myself (to an extent) when I'm around them. And if they act all shocked and offended by my seeming callousness, I can be all like, "*****, I told you."

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Can you enjoy your life without bonding/close friendships/relationships? Hobbies? Learning? Helping others without bonding? Career?

I hope your t can help with all this
Yeah, I've enjoyed my life thus far without having bonded with anyone. My problem is that they bond with me, and then expect me to return the favor. And maybe being considerate of others feelings isn't a very psychopathic thing to attempt, but it would make my life a-helluva-lot easier if they understood where I was coming from.
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Default Aug 05, 2019 at 01:57 PM
  #7
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Originally Posted by theoretical View Post
1. Yes. 2. It depends on who they are.


Baudrillard would agree, and I certainly think it's a sign of an increasingly materialistic society that so many people measure their identity and worth by what they own. What car they drive isn't merely a tool of transportation, but a status symbol, something which indicates where they are on the hierarchy of vapid yuppies. But there are also many who value instead things like family and integrity, and who are unimpressed by the material possessions or the supposed statuses of others. So ... not everyone drank the kool-aid.


I'm not really interested in bonding. Someone bonding with me is simply a consequence of us spending time together and getting to know each other on a more personal level. I do very much like hanging out with people and getting to know them. I just don't bond with them. Apparently people think this is callous for some reason.


Yeah, so my plan has been to stop pretending, and instead be open about the fact that I don't feel emotionally connected to people. If they want to continue hanging out with me despite this, then great. I can be myself (to an extent) when I'm around them. And if they act all shocked and offended by my seeming callousness, I can be all like, "*****, I told you."


Yeah, I've enjoyed my life thus far without having bonded with anyone. My problem is that they bond with me, and then expect me to return the favor. And maybe being considerate of others feelings isn't a very psychopathic thing to attempt, but it would make my life a-helluva-lot easier if they understood where I was coming from.
There are plenty of hanging out social activities that I do without any kind of bonding, just for fun or cultivating hobbies. I do bond with people, well I am happily married and have few close friends but I bond very selectively.

I don’t really understand what you mean by all this people offended by you not bonding and trying to bond with you. What do you care.

I’ve met people who expected to bond with me either making closer friendships or romantically but I don’t reciprocate and honestly I don’t care if they are offended. People latch on to me all the time, very often and in all kind of settings, I don’t give it much thought.

I don’t know if they need to understand or no. “Sorry, I am not interested” communicated directly or indirectly (depends on the circumstances) works just fine for me.

I really don’t understand the issue. If you want to learn how to bond, it’s a valid concern (although I honestly don’t think one can learn that). But if your concern is how to get people off your back, it’s fairly easy to accomplish imho.
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Default Aug 05, 2019 at 03:20 PM
  #8
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There are plenty of hanging out social activities that I do without any kind of bonding, just for fun or cultivating hobbies.

I don’t know if they need to understand or no. “Sorry, I am not interested” communicated directly or indirectly (depends on the circumstances) works just fine for me.

I really donÂ’t understand the issue. If you want to learn how to bond, itÂ’s a valid concern (although I honestly donÂ’t think one can learn that). But if your concern is how to get people off your back, itÂ’s fairly easy to accomplish imho.
I don't think I'm explaining this very well. Let me see if I can make some distinctions.

You maintain healthy boundaries with people because you know that you don't want to emotionally invest in a closer relationship with that person. You state your intentions with them clearly so that they don't invest in something that won't be reciprocated. You say that you don't care about their feelings, but I doubt you'd deliberately form a close personal relationship with them solely for some material gain or information, carelessly trample over their feelings and boundaries, and then simply vanish.

I get close to people or allow them to get close to me because I'm interested in them or interested in something they have, despite knowing that their feelings won't be reciprocated. I treat gestures of friendship or romance rather carelessly because these things don't really mean anything to me. When I'm in a casual conversation with someone, I'm inclined to dig for more personal information because I find it to be more interesting. I have trouble respecting peoples boundaries, to put it mildly.

Now, I could simply avoid people as you've suggested, but that's kinda dull, and I just don't do that. So I'm trying to find some middle ground where I can be open about myself, but also learn to respect people's boundaries to a degree.
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Default Aug 05, 2019 at 06:11 PM
  #9
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Originally Posted by theoretical View Post
I don't think I'm explaining this very well. Let me see if I can make some distinctions.

You maintain healthy boundaries with people because you know that you don't want to emotionally invest in a closer relationship with that person. You state your intentions with them clearly so that they don't invest in something that won't be reciprocated. You say that you don't care about their feelings, but I doubt you'd deliberately form a close personal relationship with them solely for some material gain or information, carelessly trample over their feelings and boundaries, and then simply vanish.

I get close to people or allow them to get close to me because I'm interested in them or interested in something they have, despite knowing that their feelings won't be reciprocated. I treat gestures of friendship or romance rather carelessly because these things don't really mean anything to me. When I'm in a casual conversation with someone, I'm inclined to dig for more personal information because I find it to be more interesting. I have trouble respecting peoples boundaries, to put it mildly.

Now, I could simply avoid people as you've suggested, but that's kinda dull, and I just don't do that. So I'm trying to find some middle ground where I can be open about myself, but also learn to respect people's boundaries to a degree.
Of course I don’t form close relationships with people and then vanish. Of course not. I simply don’t form close relationships with people if I am not seriously interested in these people.

By not caring about their feelings I don’t I mean I wish them harm, I just can’t possibly befriend everyone or care about everyone’s feelings. I am not interested in people’s personal information unless these are very close to me and they are willingly share. I don’t want to appear callous but I have only that much time and energy to give to others so you could probably say that I really don’t care about everyone’s feelings.

I am not 100% sure about healthy boundaries. People misread me often. Hence they latch on to me against my will.

I do understand your desire for learning boundaries. That makes sense.

I did not suggest to avoid people. I suggested not to worry about close bonds. I know a whole ton of people, I pursue hobbies in groups of people and i am very extraverted and my life is not dull but I have zero interest in forming close bonds with these people. It’s not interesting to me. I have few close friends. That’s more than enough.

I don’t understand how you can be a psychopath and have all these interests in other people and their personal information. I am certainly not a psychopath but I have no interest in most people I encounter. I wish them well but they don’t interest me. Only few do. So I am not getting it. I guess on a deep level I don’t understand your issue.

PS none of it means I don’t care for people, I care for people for a living too and so on. I am just not getting too close to too many people.

You are raising good questions so if you share all this with good therapist it might get you somewhere. You have a good insight in your own nature
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Default Aug 07, 2019 at 01:46 AM
  #10
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I don’t understand how you can be a psychopath and have all these interests in other people and their personal information. I am certainly not a psychopath but I have no interest in most people I encounter. I wish them well but they don’t interest me. Only few do. So I am not getting it. I guess on a deep level I don’t understand your issue.
What do you think a psychopath is? Because what you seem to be describing is more like Schizoid PD, where the disordered person has a complete disinterest in other people.

I'll ignore myself for a moment since the jury's still out. The literature on psychopaths describes them as being very outgoing and involved in numerous social activities. One of the criteria is a need for stimulation, and a lot of the more exciting activities, particularly competitive activities, involve interacting with other people. Another characteristic is duping delight, and you can't get duping delight without a dupe. Even if we're only considering the practical use of others' personal information, you could easily use it for extortion purposes.

There are a lot of reasons a psychopath could be interested in another person. Their problem isn't that they're uninterested in other people; it's that they prioritize their own amusement above the other person's feelings or boundaries, and what they consider "amusing" would be considered "gaslighting" by most people.
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Default Aug 10, 2019 at 12:41 PM
  #11
This is an interesting topic. Along with ASPD I have OCD. This used to be in the form of compulsive behaviors, like counting and cleaning. Ad I grew older, my obsessions became about people, and what I wanted with people. I don't think it's true that psychopaths don't want to have personal relationships. I think it's hard wired into most brains to desire social interactions at some level. For me, I become easily obsessed with people, women in particular. I have desires to be close with them. It's very difficult with the inability to empathize, feel remorse, and other emotions. I've yet to discover the true reason for me wanting companionship and intimacy.
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Default Aug 10, 2019 at 01:22 PM
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I don't think it's true that psychopaths don't want to have personal relationships. I think it's hard wired into most brains to desire social interactions at some level. For me, I become easily obsessed with people, women in particular. I have desires to be close with them. It's very difficult with the inability to empathize, feel remorse, and other emotions. I've yet to discover the true reason for me wanting companionship and intimacy.
Yes, psychopaths can easily find interest in other people, much to the dismay of those chosen people.

If you're like me, your true reason is novelty seeking. I'm usually interested in two kinds of people: those with uncommon personalities who offer good conversation, and those who are trying to hide something.

To be clear, I meant interest in the people themselves, not the things they have or ways in which they can benefit me.
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Default Aug 11, 2019 at 06:24 AM
  #13
I understand what you're saying. I believe that if you dig deep enough, eventually psychopaths can find the ability and the need to bond with someone. The problem for me has been finding someone who can get over the apparent lack of emotions, the unfeeling nature of psychopaths, and the ups and downs of a psychopathic life. I've done my share of talking to people and letting them get attached to me only to vanish.

I'm attempting to meet someone to spend my life with, but that seems like it's going to be a dead end. After all, who wants to be with someone if they can't make them feel anything? So it's either fake it til you make it or give up. The former is not fair to others, and the latter is not fair to oneself. This just isn't a good world for a psychopath.
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