Adapting to being single for life

Following my very long first thread here about being single/virgin at almost age 30 (my 30th birthday is this Thursday), I was wondering about choosing to resign myself to be single for life. It is another path, but I was thinking about how I have a lot of quirks and difficulties that would make probably well over 95% of eligible women not want to have anything to do with me. In addition to Asperger's, I have generalised anxiety, social anxiety, OCD and can fall into depression when the situation changes.

As much as I want a girlfriend, I notice that I feel much less stress when I am alone and talk to no one. I do feel painfully and depressively lonely many times, but there is a certain calmness that I get when I am alone and do not have to worry about anyone else or about offending a girlfriend/wife. When I am alone, I can just be me, whether anyone approves of it or not.

Has anyone with ASD (or even without) considered resigning themselves to being single instead of trying hard to not be single and continuously failing?

@LundiHvalursson

I don't know much about being a heterosexual male, being a male virgin at near-30, or having ASD, but I do know that many people with mental illnesses and/or other issues can find meaningful romantic relationships. There are also people who choose to be virgins until marriage or until forming a serious relationship w/ or w/o marriage. It takes effort in looking for a mate, depending on what you are looking for. If you're looking for long-term relationships, short-term relationships, playing the field, etc., you can find help with seeking potential female partners.

There shouldn't be an age limit on when not to be a virgin, so I wouldn't rush into it if you really want "the right one."

You can choose to be asexual, but if you're choosing it as a way to give up, or because you're struggling with trying and feeling rejected, then I'd say to not give up. Many heterosexual women (especially the single ones) are working on their education or on the start of their careers at your age, in their late 20s/early 30s. They may not be focused on relationships at this point. The others might have different preferences, or might already be taken, but that doesn't mean that you cannot find some dates in the meantime, and to see where it leads. Sometimes therapy helps with stuff like this, and sometimes there are "dating coaches" to aid with this. Sometimes the "late bloomers" win the prize during their mid 30s or early 40s, when people want to settle down and find a mate.

As a woman with acne and crooked teeth plus PTSD, among other things, I had a really tough time finding relationships. Dates, yes, but relationships, not so much. The relationships I got into weren't that great. I'm not sure if men struggle with similar things, but I can see your issues might be different. There are happy couples, or even those who are happily playing the field, who come in all shapes, sizes, and appearances. I met some men who matched your description whom I thought were cute and very smart, when I was around your age. I was single at the time and decided not to date since I was dealing with PTSD as well as some diseases I would rather not spread. Sounds gross, but I thought you should be aware that some of the "available" women aren't available in reality. Some might be looking for same-sex partners, some might only be looking for friendships, some might be looking for mates with certain looks or bank accounts, etc. I knew some (shallow) women who only dated rich men. To each his/her own, but that shouldn't speak negatively about you.

I'm 45 and asexual, and that is my choice. I chose this due to my disabilities. If it is a path you want to choose, it can still be rewarding with friendships and exploring all the things you like to do. Although I do isolate myself (due to my disabilities), I try to engage with friends or neighbors when I have the energy. I may be dealing with a lot of grief and loss, but I do what I can to feel good about who I am regardless of all my disabilities or acne scars or weight issues.

I'm sure you are a healthy young man who has his whole life to find a mate, or who can find dates if you're not interested in settling down. If you want to take a break, you can do so in a healthy way that doesn't involve isolation. Sometimes, when that happens, a date will actually appear and a woman will ask you out; it's weird; it's like your confidence increases when you're not looking, and people are, in fact, attracted to confidence (both in women and men, both for heterosexuals and non-heterosexuals). You cannot find a date/mate without looking, and you certainly cannot wait for a woman to magically appear and ask you out. That may happen, but it is rare. You can try dating services, or, you can try starting out with making friends only at meet-ins and meet-up groups (in real life), and then when you find women whom you've made friends with at events where you share common interests, then you've already built up enough rapport with new friends as well as potential dates. You can ask other men for some tips, and sometimes even ask other women for some tips as well. In the interim, you may find some woman that you're attracted to and actually friendly with to date. You will most likely already know her. Many women would rather wait to get to know some potential mates/dates in a friendship circle before dating, so as to build trust beforehand. Alternatively, there's always the dating sites for fast-paced blind dating.

Don't take your status to heart. You're a very eligible bachelor! You don't need to give up, unless you want to. It sounds like you really want to find a mate/date though. Hang in there.

Thanks for your encouragement, yes I would like to date/mate but the facts of my weirdness speak for themselves, hence my question.

About the friendship circle, that is a good idea. However, where I live (San Francisco) it is very hard for me to relate to people. Not only women, I have trouble making male friends. I cannot even ask male friends for advice because, well, I have none. People here seem to have a completely different mindset on everything compared to myself. People here care about tech, money, nightclubs, hiking--all stuff that I more or less hate. People here are also very superficial and arrogant, and I, being too honest and on the humble side instead of the show-off side, often have big cultural conflicts with most people here.

All of the women with whom I have went on dates here have been totally incompatible with my personality. I only realised this recently. They were basically the polar opposite of myself--outgoing, extroverted, talkative, party-goers, focussed on careers/making huge sums of money, beauty/fashion, outdoors types. I, on the other hand, am introverted, shy, quiet, very blunt/honest, prefer academic subjects instead of popular culture, am very indoors, do not really pay attention to looks and my fashion, etc.

I am not sure if this hurts my chances even further, but my physical appearance is very different to other guys. For almost a decade I tried to emulate the looks of John Lennon, complete with long hair and circular glasses. Right now I have aviator glasses trying to emulate Ray Manzarek (the keyboardist of The Doors). Most women whom I have met have reacted negatively and/or insulted me for my looks rather than reacted positively. It is what it is, but if I am really that weird, there is nothing much to do about it.

@LundiHvalursson

Some women like "weird," and some women like being "weird" themselves. Don't put yourself down for being "weird." The thing is, communication is key to make that "weird" trustworthy, instead of a person who is quiet and "too mysterious." Women are cautious these days (due to being targets of so much harassment, victimization, etc.), so it isn't that they don't like weird, it's that the statistics for women being victims are so high that they just need to be able to communicate well with a potential partner and feel safe, understood, etc. You can still be shy and introverted, but you can also communicate your trustworthiness by stating to them what you like, even if it not mainstream. For instance, I'm "weird," but I like that about myself. I like wacky, silly, funny things, but I also like being a recluse at times. When I used to date, I'd explain that I'm more introverted than extroverted, and that I need my me time. Some guys were put off by that, some guys were okay with that. Many guys were not my type either. And this was before I became disabled.

I've spent some time in both So. and No. Cal. I can agree with you there about the "fake." Nevertheless, there are many people who are not "fake." It's a matter of finding the right circles that match your interest and are very welcoming, especially for introverts. Things like events open to the public at universities might help, or even book events. Additionally, and what is most important here, is that it is healthy to have a circle of friends (both male and female) who are your social capital, and it is healthy to meet a young lady who also has a healthy circle of friends/social capital. Those friendships will help in times of need or times when relationships get tough. It also demonstrates that you are trustworthy to a potential mate, especially if you do jive with a person you date and later, on like the fifth or so date, you can introduce her to your friends. You may need to take some steps for you before approaching the dating field, only so that you are more secure in what you like. You mentioned that you like to dress up like other famous people, which is okay, regardless of what other people think. Your style is your style. Own it. When other people make fun of you, counter it with, this is me, and I like it, so I will sport it the best way that I could. However, if you're dressing to impress but it isn't your style, then switch it up and find what works for you. You are the important one here. The right kind of woman for you will like your style because you like your style, and she will be into you, not some money or status quo look. But, it doesn't hurt to have friends who are truly your friends and will be there for some helpful advice. It also helps if you are the advice-giver for other friends as well. I know with mental disabilities it is hard, but it isn't impossible. Introverts have friends, but they just need more alone time than most. Having other introverted friends may be helpful. Therapy could actually help with all these things, as well as support groups. But so can finding things you enjoy, like academic conversations. Maybe attending conferences, where other academics as well as future scholars (those on the PhD track) will align with your interests in academic conversations. How do I know this? That's hopefully the track I'll be on in the next 4 to 5 years, but I've met many of those people, and I, myself, like academic conversations - right now, because I like to learn (I don't know much), but later, because those are the conversations I want to be good at with others whose interests are the same.

That's great that you're self-aware to know what you want in a relationship and who are the incompatible ones! That said, opposites do attract, and some healthy relationships can arrive out of those who are opposite; they're not necessarily incompatible. Nevertheless, if you prefer another quiet, shy, introverted type, that's awesome! There are many women who are into literature, academics, and not necessarily the PhD tract (which would take a huge chunk out of their family time and oftentimes comprise some levels of extroversion). You can find them in various circles, and they need not have a degree. Perhaps writing a list down of what you're looking for in a woman would help. The point is not to find a "perfect mate," but rather someone who is perfect for you, with all their imperfections. Some of those imperfections might be great for your relationship, and whatever differing qualities you both have might complement both of you. Again, the best relationships begin first with friendship, and most healthy, long-term relationships comprise having a social network that combines your friends with your girlfriend's friends. It would help if you started seeking friends first, and really figuring out your style. You can boost your self-esteem while still being a quiet, shy introvert. You need not be fashion savvy to find a mate, either. You have many qualities that are attractive to some women, and I'm sure you'll find many qualities that you're attracted to in some women. You are self-aware, but you need to be proud of what your self has to offer.

The women who insulted you may not be your friends. They may be the wrong crowd to ask for advice. Some women might actually find those styles you mentioned attractive. As I stated above, the point is whether you like those styles or whether you are dressing to impress. If you like those styles, keep them, and wear them proud! Self-esteem doesn't matter what other people thing; what matters is what makes you happy. Sometimes our mental illness gets in the way of being able to read others or even ourselves, but you seem very intelligent and self-aware. You also know what you want and don't want. You can find friends and mates who align with your interests and styles. It may be challenging when our interests aren't mainstream, but they still exist. I have to start over with making friends, and it is a long and arduous process for me because of my disabilities. Nevertheless, I begin with neighbors and move outward over time. I don't rush into anything. I do what I can to discover more of who I am and what I like. You can do these things, too. It's not a matter of quitting; it's a matter of time and trying out new things, even though you're introverted. Technically, I'm both introverted and extroverted, but I lean more towards introversion these days. I'm proud of it, and I like it, no matter what others say.

You'll get there. Keep reaching out. There's always us on the PC boards, including me. I'm 45, so I'm 15 years your senior. Nevertheless, I can try to help out where possible. Hopefully some other people on PC can help, too, because I don't know all the answers.

Thank you for being brave enough to share all of this! Please keep us posted on your progress. Don't give up. Weird is good!

Lots of wisdom from @lillib above. One other thing that came into my mind while reading all this @lillib sort of alluded to, but, what about looking into something like a book club germane to one or more of your interests? And, as she mentioned, maybe pursuing some of your academic interests through conferences or clubs? Do you have a pet? There are tons of groups and clubs for pet owners, too. Just a few thoughts.

That is true, but here I do not recall really ever meeting these types of open-minded women. I think that you said that you lived in Northern California before, but I am not sure if you have lived within San Francisco city limits recently. There is what is informally called a "club of normalcy" where people have to adhere to what is considered normal or be "out of the club", where not only do people try to avoid you, but word gets around and they spread to other people about your weirdness and more people start avoiding you. What I do realise is that there are a lot of backstabbing gossipers who make sure that "weird" people get left out from social circles.

Where I live is basically the IT capital of the world, and this brings a lot of men, most of whom are quite weird but act normal on the surface. However, the women are mostly neurotypical very streamlined "normal" compared to the men, and acceptance of alternative thinking or hobbies not really favoured here.

I understand the need for safety in the case of women, but what it seems to me is that even if I explained my quirks, they just think that I am a flat out weirdo. I often state my hobbies, chess and foreign languages, and the most usual reaction is one of being baffled. "Why do you not go hiking" or "Why do you not go clubbing instead?" is what I often hear. I have had numerous bad experiences, and it may be clouding my judgement, but if I keep hearing the same thing over and over from them it is not really encouraging me.

Reading body language, knowing when to say the right things, and other very neurotypical behaviours are expected here. I would say that, based on my experience at meetups and events, the vast majority of women here are extroverted, neurotypical personalities. You have to "know" how to carry yourself with wit and be outgoing, or else be considered weird. I thought about this, and it is like playing blackjack--you never really know when you will hit "21" with your next card. Likewise, you never know if you will offend someone just by saying something normal, and what your next move is is always critical.

For example, here was one conversation that I had in a group of people around my age (20s and 30s) at a socialising meetup in a bar a few months ago:

Man 1: Lots of people here, good vibes.
Woman 1: Yeah, great music too, get ready to party!
[music starts playing]
Woman 2: This is, like, my song! Go Shorty, it's your birthday, we gon' party like it's your birthday!
[starts doing a little self-dance]
Woman 3: Hey _______, you know that song right?
Me: No, never heard of it.
Woman 2: What?! Where you been?! You not get party?
Me: Not really, I prefer music from the 1960s and 1970s, like Bread and the Carpenters.
Woman 3: Uh...who?!
Woman 1: What?
Woman 2: You a old dude or what?
Me: I feel like I were born in the 1940s instead of the 1980s.
Man 1: Er....
[silence for a few seconds]
Woman 1: Awwwwwkwaaaaard!
Woman 3: Um, it was, like, nice to meet you...Bye
Man 2: Yeah, I think I am going to, like, go that way…
Woman 2: See ya, would not wanna be ya!

Things like this happen all the time. I often feel angry and embarrassed that I inadvertently end up in these situations where no one seems to understand me.

I am trying a bit hard to get some sort of semblance of a friend circle. My best friend, whom I knew since we were 5 years old because we attended the same primary and high schools and were in the same school year, left San Francisco in 2009 due to getting sick of the city. He was basically my circle back then, and would introduce me to people. Since then I have been on my own, and it has been quite tough. I did meet a guy from Minnesota a few years ago at a meetup, and he more or less is my only male friend. A few other friends whom I met at meetups left San Francisco due to getting sick of the city (there seems to be a pattern here), and it seems like when I do seem to build a circle, it collapses because that friend leaves permanently.

When I resembled John Lennon's look, I got some quite brutal criticisms. Quite a few women called me names like "dirty hippie" and often people avoided me. Of course, that did not deter me, but still it was annoying to be alienated for so long. I find it ironic as well that in San Francisco, which was essentially the birthplace of the hippie and counterculture movement, people denigrated me for looking like one.

Right now I have the Ray Manzarek look:



The criticisms do not stop here. They seem to dislike John Lennon and this guy as well. It seems like they do not really like oldschool looks. But still, like right now, I am wearing my 1960s aviator glasses, still have long hair and still weird. Not to delve into politics deeply or anything, but people here are very capitalistic--making money at all expense, and denigrating anyone who refuses to be part of the money-hunting game. I am not rich, do not make six-figures, do not care about making tonnes of money and generally think that making profits like that is disgusting and immoral, so I essentially do not see eye-to-eye with over 90% of people here.

I have heard of opposites attracting. But here at least, it seems to be a case of opposites repel completely, and the women whom I have met have not been accepting but the opposite--judgemental and superficial. Maybe somewhere, in some random part of the city, there is a woman who is the complete opposite of me and accepting as a person. But really, generally people here at not accepting. That "club of normalcy" is taken quite seriously, and "weird" is not tolerated. At least at the events that I attend. Which is again, very ironic, considering that San Francisco were the birthplace of the counterculture movement, and being weird was seen as the "normal" here. But that was decades ago. Times have changed drastically, and for the worse.

I have degrees in biology, mathematics and chemical engineering, and am planning to study medicine in Europe in the future. So I would fit more into an academic setting. However, most academic settings and events here totally revolve around IT--a field that to put it bluntly, I despise. Differential equations, count me in; same with engineering or medicine--count me in. Coding with Python and JavaScript--count me out completely.

I am also weird but very blunt. People here are seriously fake--now there is a "joke" which has a lot of truth to it--the fakest place in the Western Hemisphere is no longer Los Angeles, but rather San Francisco. Saying that everything is "good" when it really is not is common here. Saying that something is "bad" or saying that you dislike something is seen as a taboo here. Voicing contrary opinions is taboo. And since I am a very blunt person, people seem to get offended a lot. Taking the IT thing for example--if I I am in a group and everyone works in tech, they ask me about my background and if I am in tech. I respond that I am not in tech and that I seriously dislike it. Everyone in the group either gasps or looks at each other like I just said something horrifically abominable. And then they try to avoid me next time, and spread to other people that I am a "rude" person.

You make a good point. Self-esteem, by its very name, is esteem based on oneself, not anyone else. I should not give in to believing that I am a bad person just because so many other people say so. Those women are definitely not my friends, but the women here whom I meet are very similar to the others whom I had met previously. I am going to be blunt again, but here where I live I have had the misfortune of meeting some seriously vile people with truly disgusting characteristics about judging people based on very superficial reasons.

I just got back from my trip to Germany and Portugal. People were on average much nicer and less judgemental than back home. More genuine and simply kinder. I wished that I lived there. I think that everything, from circle of friends, to dating the women, would be way less complicated than back here. But this is the situation in which I find myself. Trying to make good of a bad pack of cards.

@LundiHvalursson

I will respond in a second. This is a great thread/post of yours because it helps me to understand better, and hopefully it will help some other people struggling with similar things.

I just want to say, thank you for replying. I will reply soon, as I want to slowly read what you wrote so that I don't miss anything when I respond.

PS: I left California for a lot of the reasons you bring up. I've never been able to live in Northern Cal. because it is too expensive; I used to live in So. Cal only. I moved out of state back in 2006 and never returned. I have some friends and family there, the healthy ones, that is, but they live in So. Cal. Northern Cal is a bit too upper-class for me; I don't know their culture yet. It sounds painful what you went through/are going through. It kind of reminds me of that movie, "The Social Network." Anyway, my ex went to Stanford. He was balding, but I didn't care. I loved his weirdness and found his differences attractive. Unfortunately, my diseases were too hard to manage, and I didn't want my ex to be unhealthy. My ex had a hard time with some mental illnesses, and he really had a hard time at Stanford, for many of the reasons you mentioned. I love my ex, but I truly wish he would find another woman who is healthier than me and whom he could share a long life with. He understood why I chose to be asexual, but it wasn't easy for him. He also is a commitaphobe, which I understood. He is 50 now. He is also bisexual and non-monogamous, which wasn't something that worked for me. Anyway, the point is that I understood his pain and the issues he had faced at Stanford many moons ago, like 30 years ago. It still affected him. He wound up being happier living in a different state. He's a professor at a community college. He feels depressed at times, but he's learned to embrace his sexuality while also seeking therapy to help him with the next steps. He's cute in my eyes; I found him handsome.

You are so young, and have your whole life ahead of you. My hope for you is that one day you'll reply back to the threads and tell us of your wedding plans. Until then, hang in there.

I'll write more later on, but I thought I'd share this quick note from the little that I did read in your reply. I want to read your reply slowly so that I can respond better than this. Stay tuned...

That sounds like a toxic environment, or a culture for which there are some serious divides! Perhaps you can't move out of that culture (at least not right away), but there are safer subcultures to find when mainstream culture is that ostracizing. I'm sorry that you went through all that, and all those microaggressions.

Perhaps that is the "modal personality" of the culture for which you live; the hiding who you are (e.g., weird) by wearing masks of normalcy; it's as if that is that culture's way of regulating emotions and reducing cognitive dissonance in terms of rejection and fears of encountering differences. Nevertheless, there's a disadvantage to a specific group of people when mainstream society decides that "masks" are more important than authenticity. Again, I'm sorry that you struggle with this.

You have some awesome hobbies - some of which are attractive in their own right! The feedback you have received comprises differences between hobbies, one being more intellectual, the other being more physical (e.g., hiking). What say those physical extroverts who encounter someone with a physical disability who cannot do those things, or people who prefer intellectual stimulants to physical stimulants? They are closed-minded if they will react to you as if their way is the only/best way. It speaks to their lack of cultural and individual differences, their lack of diversity training and empathy for different others. It's one thing to not be compatible, but another to be judgmental. They sounded judgmental and rude. You're right; this is not encouragement, and it does little to boost your self-esteem. You need more healthier environments with like interests, or even healthier environments where people know how to build trust with someone who likes different things. It's easier, however, to find circles of people who hold similar interests because the chances of being judged harshly get reduced.

Thanks for understanding the safety issues with women. To me, that means so much hearing that from a man. (I was hurt by men in my past.) But what you have experienced is not the same thing; you experienced rudeness and judgment. For men, I can see how those responses you've received were "not safe."

It's almost as if the culture there equates "weirdness" with "bad." That isn't true, and it certainly isn't a rational or healthy way to look at social differences, or diversity. Most of the women there may be as you described, but there is still hope to find women who aren't that way. It may be harder to find in such a culture, but it exists somewhere. I was born and raised in So. Cal., and I left because I didn't quite fit with all the other women and the other men's expectations. I also dealt with a lot of trauma while there, too. It's stressful to have to figure out what your next move is, and when it boils down to it, you have to build your psychological hardiness enough to know that you can only be you (without the fake mask), and that you can learn to enjoy being you no matter what mainstream culture says.

Kudos to you for going to a bar and trying that environment. That said, such an environment brings out the extroverts and mainstream people, unless, of course, it is a different kind of bar where more introverts hang out (which is hard to find). Perhaps finding a different venue that doesn't attract primarily extroverts might work out better. More feedback to follow with your example below...

[QUOTE]
Man 1: Lots of people here, good vibes.
Woman 1: Yeah, great music too, get ready to party!
[music starts playing]
Woman 2: This is, like, my song! Go Shorty, it's your birthday, we gon' party like it's your birthday!
[starts doing a little self-dance]

[/QUOTE}

Was it you doing the self-dance? If so, good for you!
Also, you're picking up on the conversations that extroverts typically have when entering an extroverted environment. It's interesting for us introverts to see as bystanders, but harder to engage with. While we understand their happiness, they might not understand our forms of happiness. You captured the differences so eloquently, as if an ethnographer who studied cultural anthropology, or as if a participant observer. Sometimes us intellectual introverts enjoy the scene without actually being part of it, and even if we hold some insecurities of our own. It's good for you to explore different environments and to embrace cultural and individual diversity! However, this should be a clue that such a group will not equate to what you are looking for, and seeing such clues at the outset will help determine how you will spend the rest of the night. To boost self-esteem, know that you are in a diverse environment and are different from those in that environment; like a foreigner visiting another country on vacation, see the environment as a unique place for you to engage in while also knowing and being proud of your own differences and roots. That might help you with your analysis of your surrounding, your understanding of how you represent yourself as your true self in that environment, and appreciate the differences without making it a negative judgment on yourself.
It was rude and ignorant of those extroverted people to respond the way they did to you. It was demeaning, and it speaks to their lack of training in diversity. You could easily replace that situation with a foreigner who visits another country, or a refugee who is trying so desperately to assimilate without losing his/her own cultural beliefs and practices. You did well in engaging the conversation and answering their (rude) questions or comments. I'm sorry you went through that! What should have been a more appropriate response would be, "Hey, your interests are unique, different, but interesting. Can I hear more about what you like? Say, maybe we can change the juke box or music and have a party with those songs. It would be fun!" --My mock response here speaks to the ways in which extroverts could still maintain their authenticity while engaging with introverts who are appreciated for their authenticity. Like cultural differences, we can learn about each other's different likes and dislikes while also coming up with an activity that we can all share together, a healthy give-and-take. If those are people you know, maybe they felt that they could be blunt with you. However, if those are people you don't know, that was really rude of them! Actually, it was really rude of them to say that no matter if they knew you or not, but sometimes when we know people, they try to fix us and transform us into someone like them. Not cool when you truly don't want to be like them; you truly want to be respected for who you are.

Do not take what they said to heart. It was an extroverted environment, kind of like a foreign land to introverts, and they weren't welcoming. It's a learning experience, but not a place you would return to find a date/mate. It's a great place to visit once in a while, that is, without the rude responses, but it's not your typical cup of tea.

Liking what you like is actually really cool to me! I grew up with a family who listened to Lawrence Welk and folk music. I still appreciate music from the past, music that most of my peers didn't know.

When I was 40 and an undergrad, it was so hard for me and my peers to agree on music, movies, etc. Half the time, I didn't know what they were references, and most of the time, they had no clue what kind of things I liked (except if their parents liked the same things I liked). I was often mistaken for being someone's mother, as opposed to being a student. I lived with it, and I reminded myself I was there for a purpose. Nevertheless, some of what I heard hurt and reduced my self-esteem. It took me a while to bounce back. There are many differences in life, and sometimes we have to assure ourselves that we're not the problem here, that we deserve respect, too.

I've felt the same feelings you have felt. We have a right to our feelings! You're not alone. And please don't take any of those things to heart.

It would seem that the friends you have made were healthy, and they probably seen the same issues you've seen with the toxic environments and behaviors from the mainstream culture there, which is why they moved. They could have also moved for personal reasons, such as family or work or grad school. It's sad when people we are close to leave. It's part of life, especially at your age. You can still maintain long-distance friendships through online social platforms or through snail mail or through email/phone, but I know, it's not the same. Their leaving is not a reflection on you, as you may already know. But it's hard to keep moving forward when you feel some grief/loss from those experiences. Nevertheless, it's important that you do keep moving forward. Maybe one day you'll be able to move. Or, maybe one day, you'll find the right circle of people and hopefully a mate to be with in SF. Meanwhile, keep trying, and keep finding support for you. You have many attractive qualities, and you know who you are. All those things are so important for you! And, you have a lot to offer this world and society; you have different POVs, different tastes, and different styles - all of which can help our world and society in ways that most people take for granted.

You know more history than I do! Thanks for that! Anyway, they are rude and ironical, indeed! I faintly remember John Lennon, but I do know the reference. That seemed like a cool look that others should have respected. I'm now wondering, why the disdain? Are there political reasons for this, not just stylistic?

That's a cool look! It almost reminds me of that 70's TV sitcom. PS: I had no idea who Ray Manzarek was, but after looking at the pic, I remember him from somewhere. That's an awesome look to sport! Whoever thinks differently can go suck it - just kidding, I think. You have a lot of attractive qualities, and having your own style speaks to the good parts of your self-esteem, the parts where you are authentically you! That's awesome! You're not trying to fit in with everyone, but you are kind enough to know and appreciate differences. Sadly, other people are being really mean and nasty toward you. You deserve to be you and not have others try to change you. Those are not friends; those are judgmental, toxic people.

I'm so sorry you are struggling with the toxic dynamics of their culture. There may be benefits to their culture, but it's hard to see when you're not a part of it, and are a target of their criticisms and political vitriol. There are some nice people in such social groups, but they are hard to find sometimes. I love aviator glasses! I own a pair myself - the kind that look like mirrors. They don't look right on my face, but once in a while, I will wear them just because I like them. Anyway, you are aware to know the differences between the SES classes, and they are subcultures themselves, often politically charged. It is hard, especially in this day and age, to find some common ground or kindness from those who differ politically. I'm sorry you struggle with that, too. Still, it shouldn't be a negative reflection of who you are.

Down the road from SF is Berkeley. I visited both UC Berkeley and Stanford a few years ago. Both towns are drastically different! Berkeley might be a better place for you to find more welcoming circles with similar interests. There were many people who matched your description, and I visited about 5 years ago. I'm not sure how far you are from Berkeley, but it might be worth a trip every month or so. Again, I'm sorry for all that you are going through with being a target of attack. That's not fair or right, especially given the history of SF.

Wow - you must be super intelligent! I used to love all that, but I've missed my opportunity to study all that. I've also never taken a chem class, not even in HS. I want to learn for fun, but not for a grade, because I know I will suck at it. Still, it would be awesome for me to get to the level of learning organic chem. But I may be dreaming here, LOL.

Anyway, your plans for the future are awesome! IT is a different field, altogether, but I have friends of all types who hold different interests, including science, medicine, psychology, law, IT, criminal justice, etc. I try to find something nice in each discipline, even though they don't always see me or my likes as something they admire. I'm into criminal justice now, but I have a bachelor's degree in psychology (minored in a subfield of CJ though). I qualified years ago for a computer science course involving Fortran and C++ at the time, I believe. That was back in the early 1990s. I decided that IT wasn't for me. I liked more of the social sciences. I would give anything to have your talent with math, chem, and other hard sciences! I was able to earn A's in math courses such as calculus and statistics, but I cannot remember much of the math anymore. I miss having a mathematical mind. I miss the equations and problem-solving. With your talents, and with your goals, I'm sure you will make for a great mate to some lady with similar interests. I have a mentor whose husband works for Harvard, and she met him there before she graduated from Harvard. She helps me with writing once in a while, but I cannot afford her fees at the moment. Anyway, they are happily married, both from Harvard; her husband being a physics professor at Harvard, and she being a Literature Major. They have completely opposite fields, but, from what I hear, they have the most interesting conversations. They do have many other similarities, however, such as religion and SES, but they are so friendly to "the underdog" or to those who are not as affluent as they are. When I think about their happy connection and marriage, I think of you. I know you will find someone, but maybe the timing and place is off. Maybe you might meet the woman of your dreams in SF, or maybe you might make many friends around the world, some of which started off in SF before they moved, and then later, connect with them to share in your successes, and among one of them, find and/or reconnect with the woman of your dreams - to settle down, have kids, start a career. The skies the limit, and with your skills and talent, you could make six-figures! But, even if you make that high of an SES, you will still be kind to us lower SES folks. I know it!

Don't give up! You have so much going for you - so much more than you know right now.

It seems like conformity is a value in that SF culture of elites. I'm so sorry you are struggling with all this, but you have a right to be you, bluntness and all. Maybe you can change the words you use when you are blunt, but don't change who you are just for the sake of conforming. Sure, in workplace settings, it might be more appropriate to conform, but in your own personal life, and in some aspects of your job, it is important that you be your authentic self. Maybe find ways to appreciate the tech guys once in a blue moon, but find people who are more interested in the hard sciences that you really enjoy. I'm thinking of math clubs, math conventions, chem clubs, forensic science conventions, biology conventions, etc. You're likely to find more people there who are appreciative of you than at techy places. It's sad when there is a divide between tech and the hard sciences. I know there are cultural differences, but I also believe in collaborative science and interdisciplinary research. Imagine what could be done when both tech and hard sciences work together, appreciate their different cultures? You may not be best of buds, but it's possible for both parties to understand their differences while maintaining their authentic selves.

See some of my comments above. You have a right to your feelings, and those women were cruel toward you. Maybe they have a lot of unresolved issues of their own. They are definitely not the ones who you (or even others of their caliber) would find mate-worthy for long-lasting relationships, that is, unless other guys are looking for "trophy wives" or are into the whole "serial marriage" addiction. All their differences and verbal attacks aside, you deserve someone who fits with you, and those women just aren't good fits for you.

That's awesome that you are exploring the world and noticing the differences in culture. That experience alone should demonstrate that you will find the right circles eventually, and that there are many different types of people other than what you've experienced in SF. You have so much going for you, including your intelligence to see the differences around you. Your dress style and taste in music, etc., are awesome! They may seem unique to people in SF, but they may not seem that different from other circles you have yet to discover.

I hope some of my feedback helps. I don't know much, and I'm certainly not as smart and talented as you are, but I do know that you deserve more than rude remarks and microaggressions. You will find your mate one day. It may take time, but you'll get there. Don't give up!

That was annoying. I finished writing and then my browser crashed.

It is a toxic environment, but finding subcultures has been difficult. The mainstream culture here is a quite more intense than other mainstream cultures. Being within the normalcy gap is quite important in order to have any chance of being respected.

I take my hobbies much more seriously than just a hobby, like some people here do hiking. I play competitive chess since I was a kid, and when I move to Europe I want to try to get my grandmaster title. With foreign languages, I took three in high school and thereafter learnt over 15 by myself. I have native level in Spanish and near-native in others like Portuguese, but this does not seem to be appreciated here. I guarantee that "But why do you not go hiking?" and other comments are going to come sooner rather than later.

I am an only child, so I have no sisters. But sometimes I discuss dating with my mother. I get a female perspective from her. I try to arrange meeting with women (in the rare instances that this happens) in well-lighted establishments with a lot of people in accessible areas such as Downtown instead of some suburb with poor public transit, poor lighting and high crime.

Absolutely weird is considered bad here. And I wish that I could meet women who were not judgemental like this. I am not going to say that all the women here are like that--unfortunately I have met so many that are, but surely there are some that are not. And regarding Southern California, my impression of Los Angeles and that surrounding area was that there was a lot of hot weather, people obsessed with superficial things like sex and looks, movie-stars, people obsessed with money, etc. I think that both San Francisco and Los Angeles now suffer from these flaws, with San Francisco recently edging out Los Angeles in terms of being more superficial. I can understand why you moved. I probably would not get along with most Southern Californians either.

Your mock responses sound very rational, but unfortunately here you rarely hear that. You are either weird or normal, and any type of less-known tastes in things like music are not taken well here. I know, I do not know them well and they were rude, but it is disconcerting that you can hope to meet better people, then the next set of events people are similar or even worse.

Maybe extroverted people in their environments have their own type of socialising that makes no sense to us. But your analogy of being in a foreign land is interesting. Having just been in foreign lands but two days ago, I felt more at home there than in my own hometown. Granted, I know the languages, but even with the foreign customs and culture I felt more at home, even with the people. They just were more respectful and not as judgemental.

This sounds weird, but my cultural references are older than those of your own generation, Generation X. I relate culturally move to baby-boomers, especially those born in the 1940s and 1950s. I understand also your experience as an undergraduate. When I myself as an undergraduate, I often did not get along with people who were my own age. They thought that I was this 70 year old man transplanted into the body of an 18 or 19 year old. So I had the physical age the same, but the mental age was much older.

I understand the dent in self-esteem. Undergraduate-age students can lack maturity and empathy, and it shows. I dealt with it in my own way by not socialising at all, and I had no friends. That was a poor solution, but it is what it is.

At least you get told you are someone's mother--I get told that I am like their grumpy grandfather. I have gotten the grandfather comment a lot, and even some women on dates told me that I act more like their grandfather than a guy their age.

I think that John Lennon represents the antithesis to San Francisco. Just hear his most popular song "Imagine" in which he sings about basically no conflicts, no money, love one another, accepting others. People in San Francisco now are obsessed with making money, careers, looks, sex, etc. and having low levels of empathy for those less fortunate than them. I mean there are newspaper articles about how people in San Francisco complain that they hate stepping over homeless people on their way to the hipster coffeeshop to buy their $10 cup of coffee. Not because they feel sad for the homeless, but rather the homeless are hindering them from getting to the coffeeshop in time to get their $10 coffee. It is dystopic, and I think that talking about money and careers not being as important as respecting people and acceptance is simply not well-accepted here.

The Doors were quite popular in the late 1960s, and they are one of the bands that I listen to. Again, more irony--San Francisco were the psychedelic capital of the world in the late 60s. Now it is gentrified and filled with tech that this hippie, relaxed mentality is severely criticised as people who are lazy and do not want to work 15 hours a day in tech offices.

When you have very clean-cut people with guys in office shirts (and sneakers for some reason) and women in dresses, you can see that someone like me sticks out very much with long hair and 60s glasses. But still, I am not deterred. I have had the hippie look for most of my life despite being born in 1989. But I do get criticised since Ray Manzarek was born in 1939, 50 years before I was born. In other words, he was from a different generation, and people here think that I am silly for trying to look like him.

The money-making obsession is huge here--and yes you are right, if you are not in it, people will denigrate you, and a lot. I remember in a newspaper there was a tech guy who wrote about how he was talking to a working class man who was a SF native. The man wanted to invest $1000 into his garden as a business or something. The tech guy said that he laughed at the man and said that $1000 is not even good enough for one week's rent, and that tens of millions of dollars would be required to even be considered seriously. The man got offended and the tech guy left, but suddenly felt guilty for making fun of the man. He wrote that he acted so insensitively because he was groomed in the tech culture of money money money, and made fun of the guy out of sheer disrespect. Credit to him for acknowledging his terrible attitude and admitting his mistake, but this type of mindset is very prevalent.

The poverty line in San Francisco is considered as anyone who makes below $120000, and average rent for one person is almost $4000 per month. I think that this is a problem that drives this type of horrid mindset about money here.

I do love my aviator glasses. They give me sentimental value, just like my round John Lennon glasses that I used to wear. The music as well, I love. This is why I asked this thread in the first place. I can play guitar, bass and piano (although not well), and I can perform these older bands' songs. I would love to perform them for a girlfriend. Especially this one:

YouTube

I often think, "Imagine if I had a girlfriend". I am a very serious, stoic person who shows little emotion, but the times when I get lonely and think about having a girlfriend to be with, I will not lie, tears form in my eyes and sometimes I struggle to hold them in.

I have actually thought about visiting Berkeley again. Last time I visited was quite a while ago, in 2005 when I was just a teenager. Right now I kept putting it off because I am afraid to ride BART. There have been some horrifying news about holdups and such on the train, and I keep getting scared about going there. Acquaintances who do go there, however, tell me that it is a friendlier place than SF.

Stanford is quite far though. And gives me bad memories. One girl whom I knew from chess and liked for over a decade and who attended Stanford Medical School once asked me to Valentine's Day three years ago. When I confirmed the day that we were going, she suddenly told me that she was going with someone else. That really destroyed me psychologically, and destroyed a lot of my trust in people. Every time I think of Stanford I think of that Valentine's Day and that girl where I thought that for once I would go out, but ended up alone at home as usual.

I am not sure if I am that intelligent, I feel like I am just the average guy. I notice that we introverts seem to do well in hard sciences and mathematics. Most of the women whom I meet tend to be in humanities, such as sciences or art or gender studies or if not, in business administration and stuff. Other than the foreign languages, I am terrible in humanities. The abstractness and lack of concrete answers like mathematics makes it hard for me. Probably why I tend to do badly in social situations--how does one "know" how to act when, unlike for example differential equations, you can just identify the type of equation, reverse-engineer the problem, generalise and categorise the equation, then apply the solution? How to do this without knowing what the "answer" is?

The IT field is not really my thing at all. I am not into technology, in fact I am so oldschool that I have a rotary dial working and is my main home phone. Just few years ago I had an old twist-knob TV that was fully functional until they cancelled the contract due to TVs having to have digital functions in order to operate. But I never was into computers. I did not use Internet until 2002, which was way later than most people. Extremely rare for someone born in 1989.

About San Francisco, I think that yes the elites seem to have this weird conformity culture. The people who are not in high positions however also adopt this mindset. I mean, people are so superficial that they prefer talking in text-to-text chats rather than face-to-face, and I read that online dating is favoured over face-to-face dating. One concerning thing that I read was that in the online dating scene, from what I understand, a non-White man has to earn over $100000 more in their salary in order to be considered dateworthy to a woman compared to a White man. This type of superficial rubbish is just horrific to me, and probably attests again to how I do not fit in here.

About dating, I found these links:

8 (Completely True) Reasons Why Dating in San Francisco is so Difficult

Why is dating in San Francisco so hard? - Quora

5 Reasons Dating in San Francisco Is so Freaking Hard | HuffPost

Why are people in the Bay Area so rude? - Quora

https://www.elitedaily.com/dating/st...ncisco/1300158
I have always loved travelling. I definitely notice the difference in attitudes of the people in other countries and here. Going back to my time in the UK, I remember once at a supermarket when I was paying, the girl at the till told me how she really liked my John Lennon glasses, and conversed a bit with me since there was no one behind me in the queue. That never happens here. Not even once.

But here, I have received some really concerning insults, like being called "virgin loser" or being outright laughed at. The most alarming incident was once where a girl gave me the double middle finger when finding out that I have always been single. Which drives into my fear that I would be single forever and need to prepare to be single. But I realised that I do not need to listen to these comments. Thankfully these incidents are rare, but still, it does absolutely nothing to help my self-esteem. But now, at least, I am trying to improve my self-esteem. It is hard however--like swimming upstream (me improving self-esteem) against a strong downstream current (people's attitudes to me).

@LundiHvalursson

I read your reply. I will most likely read it again and respond to it in a few days.

But I wanted to say that you are well on your way to building your self-esteem, despite all of the meanness in SF. You know who you are and want you want; there are a lot of people who do not, so you are very fortunate in that area.

I'm a Gen-X person. I'm used to '80's and '90's music, LOL. But, I also like Simon & Garfunkel and a few songs from the Doors. I love the use of harmony back in the '60's. I don't know much about the '40's; that the era my parents grew up in (my parents are not Boomers, they are the generation before that, believe it or not). There's a song that has the phrase, "Tie that yellow ribbon 'round the old oak tree..." that I absolutely love, but I'm not sure of its title or artist. I'm sure I can find it on YouTube. I also like some of Julio Iglesia's stuff, but I'm not sure why or how I liked those songs. I wonder if Doris Day is from the '40's? My parents were into her. The old black-and-white films are great; I remember those.

I would be considered impoverished in SF! Those figures scare me, LOL! And what the men go through regarding dating, my gosh, that is brutal! My ex makes $70k+ but lives in a different state. I never understood why he kept putting himself down since I thought $70k+ was "rich."

My ex would cry sometimes, and in my eyes, crying is a human thing, not just a "girly" thing. I have a hard time crying or showing emotion, but I am far from stoic. Still, I've met a really cool retired psychologist who loves the philosophy of stoicism, and yet, he is so caring and understanding to others. Being stoic isn't bad or wrong, it just requires a different communication style with those who are neurotic. Do not ever feel bad for crying! You are a real, strong person to be able to cry and to process your emotions that way. I have yet to be able to free myself in order to cry. It's a long story, but I think men who are able to cry and remain themselves are emotionally intelligent; they're not masking tears with aggression. And although we have to regulate our emotions in certain arenas, such as at work, etc., stoicism is probably another beneficial trait to have for such times. I've also seen male veterans and military personnel cry, and they are, for the most part, accepted in their communities; they are far from what some judgmental people would call "weak."

I speak with my mom all the time. I think it's cool when men still speak with their moms. Was she born in the 30s or 40s like my parents, or was she born in the 50s or 60s? I forgot if you had mentioned the year she was born. I think you mentioned that she is of the boomer generation. Those were cool gens, both the silent and the boomer. My half-siblings are boomers.

I recently took the PC personality tests and the disorder one. I'm highly neurotic, but I also scored high on conscientiousness and openness. For the disorders, I scored highest on schizoid and schizotypal or schizoeffective (I get those terms mixed up all the time); I could see how I would score high on the schizo-based personalities. I probably have more traits than clinical representations, but I enjoy being alone now, especially since I'm older and have all these physical illnesses. I supposedly don't show enough affect/emotions either, yet I'm neurotic (probably in my verbal expression). Go figure! I'm weird, but I like it.

I hope you have a good night! We'll chat more soon, I'm sure. I just need a few days to rest and get my apartment back in order.

It sounds to me that you should probably just wait until you are living in Europe full-time again and try there. If your experiences with interacting with people have been generally more positive outside of the USA, then it seems that your active pursuits should follow the positive rather than the negative locations. If anything you can begin online interactions with European women using the apps or other online platforms and see if anything develops there. I'd rather positive distance dating over negative local dating.

Like I said, at meetups often I see that there are men who are probably on the spectrum, or if not, at least very nerdy. However, the women whom I meet are not, as in they are almost always "normal", i.e. talkative, can read and show body language like a mime, are almost always the life of the party and know how to handle social situations, etc. Up to now I have never met a woman who were "weird" or where something seemed off and they had problems socialising.

So according to this basic analysis, this leaves the dating pool being a lot more males than females (high male-to-female gender ratio), yet there are quite a few "weird" and ASD men. However, on the female side, there are much less females than males, plus over 95% of the women are very normal and adhere to the rules of normalcy as established by society.

In Europe it seemed like there were more women who were quieter and more introverted than over here. Right now I am trying to get there. But being an American citizen makes the process much harder than if I were a citizen of a European country or of a current or former European colony