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ColorlessGreenIdeas
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Default May 23, 2020 at 08:37 AM
  #1
If one suspects DID or DDNOS how does one go about determining what to do next without a local professional to help?

When one looks at someone like Robert Oxnam, his DID completely hid well until in his 40s I believe.

For my part I suspect at least DDNOS, but after being forced to leave a specialist trauma therapist due to a boundary issue (in my view anyway) there's no one left to help with this kind of knowledge in the community that I have found yet.

Any ideas?

I wouldn't otherwise care, except in my analysis I am having a slow breakdown leading to frequent EP intrusions of excruciating inner pain, waking up in dead of night in agony, and fighting substance abuse as a poor and desperate remediation. So this state of affairs cannot persist.

I pretended to be a researcher to get the MID and took it myself, but I still am unsure of the results.

Any advice is more than welcome.
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Default May 23, 2020 at 06:17 PM
  #2
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Originally Posted by ColorlessGreenIdeas View Post
If one suspects DID or DDNOS how does one go about determining what to do next without a local professional to help?

When one looks at someone like Robert Oxnam, his DID completely hid well until in his 40s I believe.

For my part I suspect at least DDNOS, but after being forced to leave a specialist trauma therapist due to a boundary issue (in my view anyway) there's no one left to help with this kind of knowledge in the community that I have found yet.

Any ideas?

I wouldn't otherwise care, except in my analysis I am having a slow breakdown leading to frequent EP intrusions of excruciating inner pain, waking up in dead of night in agony, and fighting substance abuse as a poor and desperate remediation. So this state of affairs cannot persist.

I pretended to be a researcher to get the MID and took it myself, but I still am unsure of the results.

Any advice is more than welcome.
first thing you need to know is that if you look up in any actual diagnosis manuals used today by treatment providers you will see that there is no diagnosis.........label......called DDNOS.

what that means is anyone going to their treatment provider saying I have DDNOS they are going to question and most likely wonder why you are trying to diagnose your self with a mental disorder label that hasnt existed since 2013, and is now in 2020 called Other mental Disorder - No disorder, no condition.

in other words trying to diagnose your self with .........not........ having a mental disorder by saying you have mental disorder symptoms will get you looked at quite strangely and possibly not believed.

thats the difference and how to tell when one has a dissociative disorder vs when they dont have a dissociative disorder, when a person has a dissociative disorder all their symptoms/ problems add up to being a dissociative disorder vs when one has no disorder no condition all their problems / symptoms do .......not .........add up to having that disorder.

to understand this lets put it in something common...

how does a person know they have a cold or dont have a cold. if their doctor looks at them and their symptoms and problems and everything adds up to a cold they have a cold, if all their symptoms and problems dont add up to a cold they dont have a cold.

same thing with mental disorders. to find out if you have a mental disorder or do not have a mental disorder you contact a mental health treatment provider who gives you special tests then if all your problems add up to a dissociative disorder they will tell you which one, and if all your symptoms and problems do not add up to a dissociative disorder they will tell you that you have no disorder, no condition and mark your file as being no disorder no condition.

my suggestion call your doctors, tell them that you feel you may have either DID or Other mental disorder - no disorder no condition and they will tell you what you need to do to go through the actual diiagnosis for dissociative disorders.
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Default May 23, 2020 at 10:38 PM
  #3
Given that DID implies tertiary structural dissociation and DDNOS implies secondary structural dissociation then the terms are actually quite meaningful. (See van her Hart, Nijenhuis, & Steele)

Thanks for the reply, though. Much appreciated.

Last edited by atisketatasket; May 24, 2020 at 09:54 AM.. Reason: guidelines
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Default May 24, 2020 at 02:31 PM
  #4
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Given that DID implies tertiary structural dissociation and DDNOS implies secondary structural dissociation then the terms are actually quite meaningful. (See van her Hart, Nijenhuis, & Steele)

Thanks for the reply, though. Much appreciated.
Im sorry but I did not realize you wanted to talk about mental health theories like structural dissociation theory.

in your original post you asked....

"If one suspects DID or DDNOS how does one go about determining what to do next without a local professional to help?"

many people when they are self diagnosing and researching end up self diagnosing with non existent mental disorders because they are not aware that the mental disorder they are thinking they have no longer exists.

I dont advocate for self diagnosing but since you may not have access to a treatment provider right now due to covid 19 rules and such I thought you might want to know that around the world there is no longer any mental disorder called DDNOS.

in your research of self diagnosing self treating, you may continue to find that disorder name because they dont take into consideration that things have changed in 2013.

DDNOS name was no more in 2013.
DDNOS name was changed in 2018
the new official name for DDNOS now is Other Mental Disorder - no disorder no condition.

they are both the same thing - that a person has symptoms and problems but not a mental disorder.

if you think you have DDNOS then you are self diagnosing / self treating
yourself with having no disorder no conditions.

if you are self diagnosing self treating for DID then you think you do have a mental disorder.

as for the structural dissociation I personally do not discuss theories online simply because some locations deal with diagnostic critera/ disorder names and other locations deal in theories which can lead to debates and fights, which .....many website forums..... have in recent years made rules against fighting and debating online to deal with facts in terms of diagnostics, not treatment theories.

good luck to you and please consider contacting a treatment provider and getting officially diagnosed as soon as things start opening up in your area .
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Default May 27, 2020 at 05:52 PM
  #5
Good grief, what on earth are you talking about? DDNOS - which was dissociative disorder not otherwise specified - has absolutely NOT been classified as "no disorder, no condition". What kind of misleading hogwash and level of "alternative facts" is that?
ColorlessGreenIdeas, I hear you about the structural dissociation. It sounds like you need some solid trauma therapy. If local help is unavailable you may be able to find some trauma-informed professional to help you online.
I am sure you have already looked this up and found out for yourself, but the DDNOS label has now been broken down into a different label and subset of labelling known as OSDD - other specified dissociative disorder. Nobody suddenly said that all those people who were diagnosed with DDNOS were suddenly now reassigned as having no disorder at all. Sheesh!
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Default May 27, 2020 at 09:21 PM
  #6
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Given that DID implies tertiary structural dissociation and DDNOS implies secondary structural dissociation then the terms are actually quite meaningful. (See van her Hart, Nijenhuis, & Steele)

Thanks for the reply, though. Much appreciated.
here are a couple links for you.

the first one explains DDNOS stands for Dissociative Disorders Not Otherwise Specified. and that it means people showing problems and symptoms of dissociation that do not fit an actual dissociative disorder.

Dissociative disorder not otherwise specified - Wikipedia

if you further research you will find that this removal of DDNOS from the DSM 5 was a very heated discussion and in the news back in 2013 when the DSM 5 first came out and people realized that DDNOS was removed from the dsm 5 for many reasons, one being it became a catch all for anyone that was showing dissociative symptoms but they did not fit any of the other dissociative disorders.

the the second link explains the supplemental updating to the DSM 5 that happened in 2018 where they added the same diagnostic criteria as DDNOS back in to the DSM5 with a different and more accurate name.

other mental disorder no disorder no condition

https://psychiatryonline.org/pb-asse...ctober2018.pdf

as you can see in the link what I stated is almost word for word what the supplemental updating states by the american psychiatric association....it states it is for when a person is showing symptoms and problems but those problems do not add up to being a disorder.

when you get a mental health treatment provider here in america you can further discuss this labeling and changes as they pertain to america. here on psych central we have many people from the UK, and other locations that may go by different standards and such then we do here in america. your treatment providers here in america can explain more in detail since your location is here in america.
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Default May 29, 2020 at 03:46 AM
  #7
Sorry OP, but it is very annoying when people insist that incorrect information is correct. To be absolutely clear if you tell a professional you suspect you have ANY dissociative disorder, no competent mental health professional is going to wonder why you are trying to diagnose yourself with 'no disorder, no condition'. But I think you are actually smart enough to know that for yourself.
If you go to page 24 of the link the previous poster provided it is clearly highlighted for you. It says "this chapter also includes an additional code, no diagnosis or condition, for situations in which the individual has been evaluated and it is determined that no condition or disorder is present." DDNOS, which stands for Dissociative DISORDER, Not Otherwise Specified, has absolutely not turned into "no condition, no disorder". They are completely separate codes and are not at all related to each other. The OSDD diagnostic label and its subsets successfully cover situations where DDNOS used to be applied.

The Wikipedia link supplied clearly states "DDNOS is the most common dissociative disorder and is diagnosed in 40% of dissociative disorder cases " and "Dissociative disorder not otherwise specified (DDNOS) is a mental health diagnosis for pathological dissociation that matches the DSM-5 criteria for a dissociative disorder, but does not fit the full criteria for any of the specifically identified subtypes..." Which is precisely why it was scrapped and replaced with OSDD and all its subtypes, which then allowed those cases of disorder and pathological dissociation to be classified.
NOT labelled as "no condition, no disorder".

Last edited by Amyjay; May 29, 2020 at 06:45 AM..
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Default May 31, 2020 at 02:26 PM
  #8
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Good grief, what on earth are you talking about? DDNOS - which was dissociative disorder not otherwise specified - has absolutely NOT been classified as "no disorder, no condition". What kind of misleading hogwash and level of "alternative facts" is that?
ColorlessGreenIdeas, I hear you about the structural dissociation. It sounds like you need some solid trauma therapy. If local help is unavailable you may be able to find some trauma-informed professional to help you online.
I am sure you have already looked this up and found out for yourself, but the DDNOS label has now been broken down into a different label and subset of labelling known as OSDD - other specified dissociative disorder. Nobody suddenly said that all those people who were diagnosed with DDNOS were suddenly now reassigned as having no disorder at all. Sheesh!
Good post, I agree

Grrrrrrrr

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Default May 31, 2020 at 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Amyjay View Post
Sorry OP, but it is very annoying when people insist that incorrect information is correct. To be absolutely clear if you tell a professional you suspect you have ANY dissociative disorder, no competent mental health professional is going to wonder why you are trying to diagnose yourself with 'no disorder, no condition'. But I think you are actually smart enough to know that for yourself.
If you go to page 24 of the link the previous poster provided it is clearly highlighted for you. It says "this chapter also includes an additional code, no diagnosis or condition, for situations in which the individual has been evaluated and it is determined that no condition or disorder is present." DDNOS, which stands for Dissociative DISORDER, Not Otherwise Specified, has absolutely not turned into "no condition, no disorder". They are completely separate codes and are not at all related to each other. The OSDD diagnostic label and its subsets successfully cover situations where DDNOS used to be applied.

The Wikipedia link supplied clearly states "DDNOS is the most common dissociative disorder and is diagnosed in 40% of dissociative disorder cases " and "Dissociative disorder not otherwise specified (DDNOS) is a mental health diagnosis for pathological dissociation that matches the DSM-5 criteria for a dissociative disorder, but does not fit the full criteria for any of the specifically identified subtypes..." Which is precisely why it was scrapped and replaced with OSDD and all its subtypes, which then allowed those cases of disorder and pathological dissociation to be classified.
NOT labelled as "no condition, no disorder".

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Default Jul 02, 2020 at 06:33 PM
  #10
I was diagnosed with OSDD during a partial hospitalization program. The only way to get a "formal" diagnosis is through a mental health professional, but if you really just want to learn about DID and OSDD and make sense of your dissociative symptoms there are a lot of great resources online. Internal family systems is a good term to look up. Also there are some good facebook groups where you can share your experiences and get feedback. The main thing for me is that my parts are all parts of me stuck at certain developmental stages and they hold different parts of trauma or serve different roles. I have 2 adults, a teen, and 2 distinct child parts. It was kind of a fracture where a piece of me stayed in the trauma and a piece on me continued forward for each part. Kind of hard to explain. But once it was explained to me it made complete sense, I finally began to understand why I had blank spots in my memory, why I would have had conversations with friends or family but have no memory of them, why I could oscillate between being so extremely high functioning to so self destructive. A lot of it made sense, and once I became aware of my parts and started working with them things got a lot better. We almost never have hijacking anymore, and voices and needs are acknowledged.

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Default Jul 04, 2020 at 08:14 AM
  #11
From the research I have done,DDNOS has been changed to OSDD. And the "no mental disorder-no disorder,no condition" is a billing code(Z03.89) when no disorder or condition has been diagnosed.
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Default Jul 05, 2020 at 11:38 AM
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From the research I have done,DDNOS has been changed to OSDD. And the "no mental disorder-no disorder,no condition" is a billing code(Z03.89) when no disorder or condition has been diagnosed.
yes and no.

if you have a DSM 4 and a DSM 5 you will see that DDNOS was actually torn completely apart, some criteria thrown out, some criteria added to depression, PTSD and other Trauma and stress related disorders, some criteria was completely reworded and given more criteira and a new diagnosis labeling.

the one diagnostic criteria that everyone is confused about is what people online have come to call OSDD 1..

1. Chronic and recurrent syndromes of mixed dissociative symptoms: This category includes identity disturbance associated with less-than-marked discontinuities in sense of self and agency, or alterations of identity or episodes of possession in an individual who reports no dissociative amnesia.

this is completely different than DDNOS but some online are trying to say that its the same thing. they do not realize that because of the way its worded it means something completely different and they do not realize that theres at least three or more dissociative disorder names /labels in there and a treatment provider tells the person which one of the three disorders they fit based on whats called "other accompanying symptoms" that is on the list that treatment providers have. notice the wording "less than marked" "discontinuities in sense of self and agency" "alterations of identity" and the word "possession"

in psych terms this wording does not mean the same as the DDNOS criteria of..... Clinical presentations similar to dissociative identity disorder that fail to meet full criteria for this disorder. Examples include presentations in which a) there are not two or more distinct personality states, or b) amnesia for important personal information does not occur.

so as of 2013 NOS disorder labels no longer existed but treatment providers were still having a problem for example someone coming in saying they have a dissociative disorder but do not fit any dissociative disorder, not any on the public listing and not any on the private treatment providers list. (by the way this situation was not limited to just dissociative disorders it was happening in all mental disorder labels)

then in 2018 the APA decided to fix this problem by making a completely new name for this one diagnostic criteria that would be worded the same way as NOS but given the name that fit what the criteria was saying,... that a person was showing symptoms and problems but did not fit the diagnostics for any disorder.

ever since 2018 people online have been scrambling because now their treatment providers are once again changing their diagnosis's, by either specifiying (telling them a diagnosis label that they have never heard of example in the dissociative disorders Macropsia is an OSDD diagnosis label that is on treatment providers only listing) or they are telling them that they have Other Mental Disorder No Disorder No condition. in other words like the old DDNOS wording they dont fit the diagnostics for a dissociative disorder.

my suggestion to anyone that this situation is confusing to them when libraries open up in your area go to the reference department and ask to see the DSM IV and the DSM 5 and a psychological dictionary and compare the wordings. you will see that though OSDD looks similar to DDNOS they are now two different things.

check with your treatment providers if you have been diagnosed OSDD ask them which of the OSDD disorder labels you have. there are now over 15- 20 of them. Ask them what other accompanying symptoms you need to be aware of that got you diagnosed with OSDD.
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Default Jul 06, 2020 at 01:57 PM
  #13
This is so confusing to me. But I guess since I've never been diagnosed with DDNOS or OSDD it really shouldn't matter to me.
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Default Jul 06, 2020 at 05:21 PM
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This is so confusing to me. But I guess since I've never been diagnosed with DDNOS or OSDD it really shouldn't matter to me.
yes I agree it is confusing. times have changed diagnosing isnt as easy any more as read this book, see this movie, look things up on the internet and wow thats what I have. to find out what one has its best to contact a treatment provider who has all the updated information and testing and so forth. thats how to get diagnosed now.
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