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Open Eyes
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Default Jan 20, 2020 at 11:44 AM
  #41
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I refused to be naive like my parents seemed to be from as young as I can remember. I do remember thinking that as young as in grade school. Seeing & understanding your environment can not be correlated to having to be mean to do it.
In my case, I refused to be mean and controlling like I saw my father be with my mother and older brother and even how my sister behaved. I saw so much abuse and no one stepped up to stop it. Yet, that was also reflecting the generation I grew up in. Actually, my therapist talked about a series that depicts how that generation was, when my parents were in their 30's and what their generational messages were. This series is called "Mad Men". My therapist explained that part of understanding the psychological challenges of my generation is understanding what it was like to grow up in the late 50's, 60's and maturing in the 70's. Also, there was most definitely a lot of narcissism in that generation. Also, there was a lot of alcoholism too. So much one had to JUST learn how to ACCEPT. My therapist told me it was interesting to see how his inlaws that are part of my generation responded to it when they watched it, he said they did find it triggering, not all bad triggers but more "yes I remember seeing that, my parent's world was like that". I did find it and watched the first episode. I could see what my therapist meant, then I remembered things my mother said and I realize why she said them. I myself was a secretary for a while, and I can say the way I saw these women treated did not JUST go away with my parent's generation. Noticed that when I was in sales, yet, even when I was a lead singer and how many males I encountered did not really respect women.

When you say you were soft spoken eskie because you did not want to be wrong like your father, you didn't want to embarass yourself in some way? That's a lot more common then you think for women in their 60's like you and me. Truth is a lot of people did not want to be like their parents. Unfortuantly, many women failed to see ALL the red flags that meant, "oh no? you are not seeing the things that are going to put you right in the very place you really did not want to be in".

When I was having an ART session which is similar to EMDR but more guided. I revisited an event where my father demanded my mother make sure to have things he wanted set in front of him. He was THE boss and everyone had to OBEY him. My mother stood up for herself and he blew up and threw a heavy glass vinigar bottle denting their nice table and he picked that table on his side and everything on that table, food and all slide down at my mother. While doing that session I noticed something other than that event. My mind showed me my sister moving into that spot at the head of the table. My father had a lot of narcissistic traits and my sister gravitated towards being the same. They both played the same way, you either do it THEIR way or you will suffer and get punished. However, my sister wanted that so much that she was willing to LIE and even think that was ok as long as she got things HER way. My sister got to a point where she would rage just as my father did that night at the dinner table, just to make sure SHE gets HER way. I think my sister put my father on a pedastal and he certainly didn't deserve that. He lacked too much when it came to having the capacity to respect the things that were important to others and tended to decide if something was not important to him that it was not important. Yet, he also thought "truth" was important. Clearly, my sister doesn't embrace that same standard. However, she acted like truth was important. An act, not reality that was finally exposed about her.
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Open Eyes
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Default Jan 20, 2020 at 04:19 PM
  #42
I didn't mean for this thread of mine to turn into my own saga about my challenge with my older sister. I appreciate the responses and different opinions. Things definitly got toxic, very toxic, but I did not expect her to choose to list all the withdrawls she took from my mother's money/bank account and say it was me when she KNEW that was not true. Basically five years of her withdrawing money from a joint account she set up where SHE had access to my mother's money and she blames ME for a lot of the withdrawls she did herself. That's just horrible. This isn't some stranger, it's my own sister.
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Default Jan 22, 2020 at 04:06 PM
  #43
Open Eyes, I can see that your family background is complex and that your therapist is working with you on understanding that.

It is complex and I don't pretend to have answers but there was one thing you wrote. It was about your father's belief truth was important but also that as children you were punished for lying.

Obviously we shouldn't judge by our knowledge now what was done in the past and 60 (?) years ago that was probably a typical method of reacting to children caught lying. It's just I am thinking that among other lessons learned in the home (who shouted loudest and scared others most got their own way) she also grew up with the reinforcement that lying must not be uncovered or it would be punished. It may have made her more determined to cover her tracks at all costs. Just as she has with you.

Modern parenting tends towards discussing with a child why they lied, explaining why it is wrong, but treating all parties with fairness and empathy. Adressing wrongs sure, but not punishing/shaming.

I am not criticising your parents as such because as you yourself say it was a very different time. Your sister is an adult now and responsible for her own behaviour but perhaps her experience as the older child who was punished is playing out now sadly.
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Default Jan 22, 2020 at 04:55 PM
  #44
I don't know Discombobualted. This is certainly not anything I could have imagined my sister doing. She lied to her own lawyer, my lawyer and the judge and for the life of me I don't know how on earth she can lie on such a large scale like this. This is REALLY sick what she did and she even lied to my parents making them think money she herself was taking from them was me. I don't know how she can live with herself. She is a sick, twisted and deranged individual. She had no respect for her own parents to lie like this, something like this is eternal. It's grotesque what she chose to do to her own parents and family, absolutely grotesque.
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Default Jan 24, 2020 at 09:15 AM
  #45
Are lies sometimes a knee-jerk reaction in the face of the fear of retribution in some form or another, if the truth is admitted.
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