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Old 10-09-2019, 12:40 PM   #1
sarahsweets
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Default The vaping hysteria

Its really ridiculous and infuriating. All of a sudden its war on vaping. The tobacco lobby is alive and well and tobacco still is one of the USA top crops. It kills like 400,000 people a year. I am an alcoholic in recovery and in the past 7 years I have lost 7 people directly because of alcoholism- not drugs.
I would go so far as to say that alcohol is more dangerous than vaping regulated approved vape products. I used to smoke 2 packs a day. I am down to half a pack. This is because of vaping. I am stepping down my nicotine with the hopes of quitting smokes for good. I do not like the tobacco flavored juices because they remind me too much of cigarettes which I am trying to quit. So I buy a berry flavored one. NJ is trying to ban all flavored juices...and so are many states. No one is saying that inhaling anything into your lungs is safe. Its about harm reduction.

Black market pot — not vaping — appears to be behind lung disease outbreak | Jacob Sullum - Chicago Sun-Times
https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...3fe_story.html
Vaping lung illness may be linked to black market marijuana products - Business Insider
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Old 10-09-2019, 01:25 PM   #2
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Default Re: The vaping hysteria

The biggest reason for this is teen abuse of vaping products. More teens today are opting for vaping over tobacco because of the fun/cool flavors as well as the smoke tricks you can do with it. Laws are cracking down to prevent abuse from teens, and teens who vape are most likely to smoke tobacco, and those who are trying to quit through vaping are statistically higher to go back to tobacco.

I have tried vaping to quit tobacco myself, and I honestly think I should give it another shot; however, my throat is so sensitive I have horrendous coughing fits where I can't breathe for five minutes, and the last straw was when I coughed so hard I threw my back out for a week. I would like to try again, but I have attempted a few times with no luck, and I have always gone back to cigarettes.

But good luck to you, some people are able to quit smoking tobacco for good with vaping, but then, some people quit tobacco for good but cannot quit vaping. You do what works for you.
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Old 10-09-2019, 02:13 PM   #3
lillib
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Default Re: The vaping hysteria

Because of all the "fake news" out there, I don't know what to believe anymore. Some say that the vaping-related deaths are due to misuse of the vaping machine (e.g., putting cannabis in it instead of prescribed refills), or the cheap brands of vaping machines that aren't tested appropriately. In other news, long before the vaping ban, there were some vaping machines that literally exploded on people, due to the batteries in them or something. That was enough for me to avoid vaping altogether. But I also met a person who worked at the last university I had attended (in the United States) who vaped instead of smoked, and she worked in the Psychology Dept. She was an older woman who worked as an administrator, I believe. I was trying to quit smoking at the time, and about 4 years ago, she suggested vaping to me. When I read about the explosions back then, I was immediately deterred and didn't want to take the chance of yet another trauma in my life. So I tried the patch and have went back on/off smoking since then - trying to quit. I'm not sure what that older woman would do now that vaping is being banned all over the place; it was her way of quitting tobacco, or at least the tar in tobacco, even if nicotine was still an issue.

It is my understanding and personal experience that there are at least two addictions involved with smoking cigarettes:

1. Nicotine addiction
2. Oral fixation addiction (having to put something in your mouth, or the routine of doing something with your hands to mouth)

When people have attempted to quit smoking, it would appear (in my personal experiences and observations) that...

1. Nicotine addiction got replaced with some other substance (potentially addictive) to relieve anxiety, negative moods such as anger, stress, boredom, etc - such as food, cannabis of some kind, pacing, sleeping, exercise, alcohol, etc.
2. The oral fixation got replaced with some other hand-to-mouth action or hand action (potentially addictive) to relieve that craving for such action, such as (over)eating food, drinking water, smoking cannabis of some kind, drinking liquor, nail biting, skin biting around nails, knitting, writing, organizing, drawing, typing, hand exercises, etc.

While some of the replacements are relatively safe (e.g., drinking water, exercising, knitting, writing, organizing, drawing, typing, hand exercises, other replacements were an extension of the originating problems concerning oral fixations AND self-medicating anxieties/stress intolerance/negative mood intolerance/boredom, which may potentially cause other addiction or physiological or mental problems, such as overeating/obesity, cannabis addiction, nail biting addiction, skin biting addiction, some other food/substance addiction, typographia-like conditions, oversleeping/sleep-wake disorders/problems, etc.

Vaping, it would seem, is an extension of the oral fixation addiction that is part of smoking addiction, and if nicotine is used, then the nicotine addiction remains.

The same occurs with using the patch or nicotine gum; the nicotine addiction remains, even though the doses are reduced over time, but the oral fixation addictions are somewhat curbed by the patch, but not by the nicotine gum.

I've even heard of people who were able to combat their nicotine addiction but not the oral fixation addiction revert to sucking straws (empty), nail biting (that's what I was doing), obsessive water drinking (though not that harmful, I don't think), ice eating (which is harmful to teeth; ask any dentist), gum chewing (non-nicotine; which can be harmful for those with TMJ problems), overeating (which is what causes weight gain most of the time in those who have become nonsmokers), etc.

Vaping is one stepping stone to combating nicotine addiction if flavored juices are used in place of nicotine, but the oral fixation addictions remain.

The patch is one stepping stone to combating the oral fixation addiction, but the nicotine addiction remains.

Tar (found in cigarettes) is presumably the problem with cancer-related issues, but how safe exactly is nicotine alone, are the inhalation of non-nicotine juices alone, etc.?

And alcohol use disorders, including addictions, binge drinking (without addiction), binge drinking (with addiction), etc., are also problematic. My father had alcoholism and eventually passed away from it. Alcohol doesn't just harm the person consuming it in large quantities, but also their behaviors that can harm others, such as their children, spouses, passengers, other drivers, and pedestrians or bystanders (from DUI-involved accidents), etc. So, yes, alcoholism is a huge problem, though some are able to consume those in moderation.

Any amount of cigarette use, however, is problematic, no matter if consumed in "moderation" (e.g., one cig a day or occasional cigs from time to time) because it affects others' breathing, not just our own, due to secondhand smoke. Cigarettes affect the smoker and the nonsmokers around them. And if smoking cigarettes while driving, the ashes can affect passengers behind them, as will the secondhand smoke. It can also cause a loss of concentration if accidentally dropping a cig while driving, which can also cause accidents. If someone flicks their cigarette butt out of the window while driving, that can cause harm to passengers or perhaps the driver behind them, if the cig gets flung in their way. So, yes, cigarettes are also a huge problem. And I'm still addicted to cigarettes despite knowing all this! But, I want to change and not cause harm to myself or others. It is a process. I will do it eventually.

Vaping is relatively new, so there's a lack of data and replication of research to substantiate claims of secondhand vaping problems, vaping accidents, vaping flavor use effects, and other substances used within vaping machines. A few deaths from this is alarming enough for the public to take issue, though many deaths from cigarettes and alcohol should also be considered.

Although there are some people who can only have one drink and benefit from a glass of wine once a week, there are others who cannot. Alcohol is one of those substances that can be tolerated by some but not by others, and can be used in cooking certain meals. It's not always unsafe, but it can be. It's controversial.

Smoking is, however, harmful no matter what. That, honestly, should be banned before any vaping gets banned. There is no amount of cigarette smoking that is safe, unlike alcohol, when used in moderation. One puff of a cigarette can cause harm.

Vaping liquids may be controversial. We inhale toxic fumes every day - from smog, from gas stations, from vehicular exhausts, from fires/bbqs/fireplaces, etc. A controlled and studied liquid may or may not be as safe as the other toxic fumes (apart from cigarette smoke) that we inhale everyday. Nevertheless, the issue with needing such a substance remains. It's not natural or normal to inhale from cigarettes or from vapes. But why do we do it? And what are the problems that can arise from it? As with anything potentially dangerous, people get scared and want to prevent danger. Laws then get created to prevent danger. Unfortunately, laws have also been reversed when some evidence supports that the danger can be minimized under certain conditions. For cigarettes, there are no conditions that will minimize danger; it's all toxic. For vaping, who knows. For liquor, it's up to the individual to know themselves well enough if they are addiction-prone or binge-prone, and to stop themselves if so. For those who have never been addicted (or even traumatized in the ways that many persons with addiction problems have been), they may not understand the hardships faced when abruptly withdrawing from substances used to self-medicate or self-soothe or both. Alternatives need to be in place before a ban, but "normies" don't understand that. They may not care because they see addiction as immoral behaviors, as opposed to symptoms of mental illness. They may not know that recovery is a process, not just a simple decision.

Anyway, that's just my two cents. I don't know much about this because I'm addicted to nicotine/smoking cigarettes (not vaping).
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Old 10-09-2019, 03:23 PM   #4
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Default Re: The vaping hysteria

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Originally Posted by lillib View Post

Anyway, that's just my two cents. I don't know much about this because I'm addicted to nicotine/smoking cigarettes (not vaping).
WOW! That was very informative and well thought out. I really liked your response.
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Old 10-09-2019, 03:48 PM   #5
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Default Re: The vaping hysteria

I don't view substance abuse as an either-or; it's not about one is worse than the others. All are unhealthy, all abuse body and mind, and all substance abuse causes serious physical and mental health problems - in addition to destroying connections, attachment, and love.
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Old 10-09-2019, 04:16 PM   #6
lillib
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Default Re: The vaping hysteria

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Originally Posted by LiteraryLark View Post
WOW! That was very informative and well thought out. I really liked your response.
@LiteraryLark

Thank you! As a smoker, I have to admit my addictions, and I feel responsible to concede that the concerns of nonsmokers and never-smokers are valid. I also have to admit my wrongdoings and how I unintentionally (but still) harm others with my secondhand smoke, not to mention the olfactory senses that all of us deal with when smelling (often disgusting) ash from smoking. Ironically, I hate the smell of smoke, yet I'm addicted.

My addiction began from being handed patient cigarettes for free in a psych ward when I was depressed after having given my daughter up for adoption, and after I was threatened with a year of involuntary commitment if I didn't leave my room or remained depressed. Their suggestion was for me to get free patient cigarettes and go out on smoke breaks so that I can be released - with referrals, but unfortunately none for my newfound smoking and nicotine addictions. I hated smoking before, but I used it then as a way to escape being involuntarily committed as well as a form of self-punishment for my failing at motherhood. I wasn't in any system, I gave my daughter up for adoption willingly because I wanted her to have a better, stable, and healthier life without witnessing my pain or my disabilities. Anyway, those are NOT excuses for my addiction, as I chose that route, though I wish I had better choices while in-patient. Today, I think they have abolished free patient cigarettes in most psych wards, but the problem of smoking as self-medicating for anxiety remains.

I don't meant to offend anyone with my answers, and I respect various views on vaping and smoking, even if I don't agree with all the points made, and even though people may flat out disagree with my points of view. I'm totally okay with that. Disagree, make arguments, and voice your opinions - because I do respect that, and I'm willing to have an open mind about all of this. But this is where I stand, humbly, as an admitted addict of smoking and nicotine.

I am working on my recovery issues one step at a time, so in the interim, I'm sorry to those who are affected by my smoking and nicotine addictions.
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Old 10-09-2019, 04:34 PM   #7
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Default Re: The vaping hysteria

Quote:
Originally Posted by BethRags View Post
I don't view substance abuse as an either-or; it's not about one is worse than the others. All are unhealthy, all abuse body and mind, and all substance abuse causes serious physical and mental health problems - in addition to destroying connections, attachment, and love.
@BethRags

You make a great point about not comparing one to the other in terms of their destroying relationships.

In my humble admission of being addicted to smoking and nicotine, I realized that I destroy connections when I'm around nonsmokers (recovered) and never-smokers who wish to not absorb those toxins in their skin, clothing, nostrils, eyes, celia cells, etc. It's harmful to the environment, to humans, to animals, and simply not pleasant to be around. My attachments are obstructed by the use of cigarettes and my addiction to them. It's hard to love someone who smells disgusting or is harming them with secondhand smoke. It's even harder when my friends with medical conditions or with allergies to smoke are affected when they are around me, and it is understandable why they avoid me (we tend to talk by phone or online, but some of my friendships have gone by the wayside because of my smoking).

Many jobs require that employees do not smoke or smell like smoke, just like it is viable for employers to ask employees to refrain from using perfume on the job. Some people get migraines from it, and it is best not to wear perfume during work or for an interview. The same goes for smoke residue. Smoke residue lingers.

The benefits from vaping, however, are supposedly not smelling like smoke residue. I can see that. However, the side effects for non-vapers are unknown, and the effects of losing someone who died from vaping are also sad and traumatic for those who cared about the relationships of those who vaped (whether they were aware of their vaping or not). The survivors of vape deaths are experiencing grief/loss issues, and that is concerning.

Even overeating, which I sometimes do, can be problematic in relationships. If I spend too much time overeating or eating in secret instead of socializing, that hinders relationships. I can see that. If my health is deteriorating because of my addiction to comfort food at certain times, I can see that affecting my friendships. I can also see that being similar to peer deviancy, insofar that those with eating issues may congregate in binge eating on more than holiday occasions, which only brings about reinforcements to unhealthy living, as opposed to learning to eat in moderation, eat healthy, actively do some activity (not necessarily exercise), etc. Obesity as a result of medical conditions and not addictions, however, is somewhat of a controversial topic, though I believe that obesity alone isn't an issue, so long as it doesn't promote unhealthy living, isolation, unhealthy social learning through addiction habits, etc. Of course, there are limits to this, as food is a necessity and a strong part of culture, and around Thanksgiving or the holidays, it's hard to say no to a second serving of yummy treats. But for stuffing my own emotions with food at times, which I admittedly do on occasion, I realize this is unhealthy and will affect my relationships - especially the relationship to myself.

So yes, you bring up a good point. This is actually helping me prepare for healthier living, including quitting smoking and stuffing my emotions with food at times. We all need such encouragement and eye-openers, I think.
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Old 10-10-2019, 06:40 AM   #8
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Default Re: The vaping hysteria

Personally, I think you are in trouble and risk some sort of lung problem no matter what foreign noxious substance you inhale. It doesn't make sense to me to do so and claim it is good for you. Cigarettes, vaping, whatever, you take the risk knowingly and willingly so my problem is with my tax dollars paying for the healthcare required when an individual has brought about their own health issue.

Sarahsweets, I applaud you though for your efforts to reduce your smoking. This is good news and you do deserve a pat on the back. However, this isn't necessarily proof that vaping ought to be allowed. As another poster suggested the problem lies mostly with young people who think it cool to do so. I saw a news program just the other night where two police officers raided the yard of a junior high school. These are grades 6-9! They came away with a box full of vaping and vaping related products. This is usual.

What bothers me most is that apparently the tobacco companies have the better lobby behind them. The lawmakers are up in arms (as they should be) about a handful of deaths and a relatively small number of illnesses. Good, but what about the hundreds of thousands who die each year from cigarette smoking? Why do we allow that? Because the cigarette companies lobby the lawmakers who are tied monetarily to the tobacco industry.
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