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TishaBuv
It’s mostly them, and somewhat me.
Member Since: Dec 2014
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#81
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__________________ "And don't say it hasn't been a little slice of heaven, 'cause it hasn't!" . About Me--T |
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LilyMop
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Grand Magnate
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#82
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I feel sure that you made the best decisions you could, for reasons you thought were good, at the time. It's just a sucky, sad world sometimes. We do the best we can, and if something we are doing now isn't working or doesn't seem so good in the light of a new understanding, then we can change. Seems like that's about all we've got? |
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LilyMop
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Grand Poohbah
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Member Since: May 2019
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#83
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IMO she has a right to live her life as she wishes and so do you. Only give to her freely from your heart. IMO she also needs to let go of trying to control you. |
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LilyMop
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LilyMop
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#84
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Yes, you said it exactly right. I always had the best of intentions but I did make mistakes. I want to learn from this painful situation and become a better person for it. |
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here today
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LilyMop
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#85
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You put exactly into words what I was struggling to find the words for. She has the right to live her life but so do I. I was beating myself up for not being the mother she wanted and mourning over her not being the daughter I wanted. I’ve got to let this go but I struggled with letting go of something I couldn’t understand. |
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here today, TunedOut
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here today, TunedOut
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gottastop1
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Member Since: Feb 2020
Location: California
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#86
I am wondering (hoping) your group will permit those of us who are pained and struggling with estrangement of a sibling.
Honestly, I can't tell you how much your post spoke to me. I am 63 and essentially "lost" my older sister. Is this room okay for someone like me? |
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TishaBuv, TunedOut
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LilyMop, TishaBuv
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LilyMop
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Member Since: Sep 2019
Location: U.S.
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#87
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Thank you for your kind support. You are right that it’s natural for parents to have opinions about their kids choices. How can we not? I always worked hard and made it on my own so I did always expect my daughter to make her own way too but I did want to help her along the way. I have a lot of regrets but I did always mean well. |
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here today, TishaBuv
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Legendary
TishaBuv
It’s mostly them, and somewhat me.
Member Since: Dec 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 10,120
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#88
Just like in the book I read, these reasons we are racking our brains to come up with or the reasons our children gave us just don’t add up to valid reasons for estrangement.
The relationship I have with my FOO is full of drama, lots of heated arguments. The worst of it played out last year and I became more distant from them. But, I can’t fathom going totally estranged with my mother. I don’t want that for myself. Even if she’s a toxic mother, I want to feel like I have a mother. With my sons, I have been completely nice. I am blown away that he really just didn’t love me. For 22 years, it was nothing but great. Then he gets serious with a partner, and she had to have been the driving force. Still, he completely turned on us. It’s so hard for me to fathom. The pain from this keeps surging in me. Every few hours, I start spinning. I’m trying to find distractions and practice being grateful for whatever I have. I want to keep hope that one day things will mend, but I also accept that this really happened. __________________ "And don't say it hasn't been a little slice of heaven, 'cause it hasn't!" . About Me--T |
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*Beth*, downandlonely, TunedOut
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LilyMop
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LilyMop
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Member Since: Sep 2019
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#89
Quote:
Thank you for your kind support. You are right that it’s natural for parents to have opinions about their kids choices. How can we not? I always worked hard and made it on my own so I did always expect my daughter to make her own way too but I did want to help her along the way. I have a lot of regrets but I did always mean well. I’ve been reading the book also and the main thing I’m learning is that I have to make this painful ordeal count for something in my life. For me it might lead to emotional and spiritual growth. I understand your pain so very well and I’m sorry you are going through it too. |
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LilyMop
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#90
Quote:
Personally I think so. I’m very sorry for the loss of your connection with your sister. |
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TishaBuv
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Paper Roses
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Member Since: Jan 2010
Location: California
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#91
Quote:
I did the exact opposite. I gave time. I have money. I did not keep my feelings about her lifestyle to myself. I gave mostly to her children. But that was a gift to her as well. I do not regret giving to my grandchildren. I needed to fill the gaps. They had a good life because my husband and I stepped in. Nevertheless, the outcome is the same as yours. Worse really. I have no contact. This is about my children's choices not mine. Not yours. I have questioned my choices and I believe I gave too much. So? Others might be grateful? I always believed my children would appreciate and love me in my declining years. They do not. This reflects who they are. Perfection is not a requirement for most people to love their mother. I was not perfect but I did my best and did not abuse or abandon them. I love them. But I will not allow anyone to dismiss me as they have done with out speaking my mind. I think what you did was right. She was not in your life and you still made plans to help her if she came back. You sent gifts. You told her you love her, I'm sure. Hang in there. You were a good mom. There is a phrase in psychological theory, " the good enough mom". We were. __________________ |
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LilyMop
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Paper Roses
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Member Since: Jan 2010
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#92
I .meant I GAVE money. Not I HAVE money.
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LilyMop
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catches the flowers
*Beth*
is practicing healthy breathing for brain, mind,
body, spirit.
Member Since: Jul 2019
Location: Downtown Vibes, California
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#93
My husband met our daughter for lunch last week. She told him she misses me, but needs "time to individuate." What I'm wondering is if she is able to admit to herself that she was a very fragile and high needs child. I was so concerned about her that I was sure to be there for her, without fail. Apparently she felt that as enmeshment, not love. And I wasn't a helicopter mom, just a very devoted mom.
I know she's working with a therapist, so I hope the T is a good one and knows what she's doing. __________________ |
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here today, TishaBuv
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LilyMop, Paper Roses
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Legendary
TishaBuv
It’s mostly them, and somewhat me.
Member Since: Dec 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 10,120
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1,857 hugs
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#94
I recently learned that term, “individuate”. I am sure this is also what my son was driven by, thinking he needed to make a statement of his own identity. In my day, we used to call it “finding yourself”. Young adults used to go traveling around the world with a backpack to find themselves. The term individuate, implies they are tied too closely to their parents identity and don’t have a clue who they are. It’s actually a normal phase of young adult development. My theory is it is getting blown out of control right now, and children are blaming parents for their own unsure identities. I sure hope they find themselves and return to loving us parents.
I wasn’t much of a hover parent, either. I encouraged all my kids to be themselves, but to also be as good and successful as they can. I taught them there’s a time to work and a time to play. All work makes for a dull boy, the expression goes. Yet my son blamed us for ‘not really listening to him’, too. We did listen. We were really kind and supportive. He is only saying this years later, which is justification for his bad treatment of us, IMHO. You may want to very gently point out to your daughter you encourage her to be herself and will love her for whoever she is. I always told mine I love them no matter what, but if they were doing something I found intolerable or harmful to them, I would not enable it. But, I knew I couldn’t stop them as they are adults, so no choice but to accept...but not support and enable. That’s why mine is mad. __________________ "And don't say it hasn't been a little slice of heaven, 'cause it hasn't!" . About Me--T |
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*Beth*, here today, LilyMop, Paper Roses
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LilyMop
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#95
Yes I also agree we were “good enough Moms.” I too never heard of the term “individuate” until recently and I agree that it’s about finding oneself and establishing identity as an adult. I don’t see why you have to cut ties with your parents to do this but here we are...
It has been good for my soul to talk with other Moms about this. I truly appreciate all of you. I can’t thank you enough. Last edited by LilyMop; Feb 03, 2020 at 05:18 PM.. |
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*Beth*, here today, TishaBuv
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Grand Magnate
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#96
This is not exactly on-topic, but I thought I would reach out, if any of you are still here.
My kids and I are still in contact but they are both ignoring me at the moment -- probably busy with their own things and I am (unfortunately and undesirably) feeling needy. Which leads to old family of origin neediness issues, still unresolved (ugh!) So, maybe, let me try some resolution -- I did not, was not able, to "individuate" entirely effectively when I was a young adult. Yes, I went to work, got married, had kids, but midlife. . .some of those old issues started to surface, then my late husband died, and just. . .nothing. Still trying, I guess, because I'm still kicking, although. . .gets very tiresome and seems somewhat pointless as I feel the decrepit-ness coming on. I have a better picture of my parents than, maybe, I did years ago. Not perfect people, and in some respects downright awful. Mostly we pretended, though, and I pretended, and getting a real feeling for how they were, and how I was affected, continues to be hard. Reality as it is/was -- what is that? A main problem I'm having now is the creeping decrepit-ness and feeling of neediness. Nothing specific -- just I feel it coming on, and maybe/probably my kids don't want to get involved because they just see/feel it as neediness that I sometimes had when they were growing up? I do have some control over it, or at least it's expression. But then that makes me careful, still anxious, and withdrawn and that, combined with the neediness, keeps them distant at the moment, perhaps? Aging people DO get less able, and get legitimately needy, and with my folks -- I looked on that as my responsibility and -- maybe part of the family craziness? -- an honor to help them -- only things went very bad, perhaps as other family members were competing for the "honor", only in very different and ultimately selfish ways? A question I have asked my kids directly, and didn't get an answer, at least yet, is -- what does extended family mean in today's world where people no longer live close together? And, though I didn't mention this part, where people are not depending on extended family or tribe for survival and economic cooperation and covering for one another when somebody is sick or injured? When it is the family's survival that is important, and not (just) the individual's? It's not just up to them, of course, but it's not just up to me, either. I am/was the "leader" but we all know, intellectually, that's not the case any more. If they don't want to engage with the question, then they don't want to engage. It certainly doesn't seem to be a question that is on many people's minds in the society, so it may seem entirely foreign or irrelevant or "just mom" to them. Nevertheless. . .I felt 20 years ago, when things were going down hill after my late husband died, that I was no good to myself or my (young) adult children and it would be better if I
Possible trigger:
My sister and I have built a bridge, of sorts, but only because we "had to". We had some inherited property that we shared in equally and have had to deal with the problems, together. Not so with anything with my kids. I really don't know what to do. With my sister, I love her -- but don't trust her. She may feel the same way? Lots of family s. . .t, and hurts, and who knows what all else went down in that family. We do OK focusing on questions, in the moment. But it took a long time, with her ignoring/avoiding (her way) and me pushing for answers (my way) to get to this. Maybe/probably I need to try some patience, too, with my kids? And with myself? |
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*Beth*, TishaBuv
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Legendary
TishaBuv
It’s mostly them, and somewhat me.
Member Since: Dec 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 10,120
(SuperPoster!)
1,857 hugs
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#97
Do you think you acted too needy or were you just reasonably needing to feel mutual love and what’s wrong with that?
__________________ "And don't say it hasn't been a little slice of heaven, 'cause it hasn't!" . About Me--T |
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here today
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Grand Magnate
here today
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Member Since: Jun 2012
Location: USA
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#98
Quote:
I love my kids . . .but they are not nerdy. So, hm. . . Maybe back to the individuation question? And how that is done, while still in loving relationship? Or, changing relationships? |
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Legendary
TishaBuv
It’s mostly them, and somewhat me.
Member Since: Dec 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 10,120
(SuperPoster!)
1,857 hugs
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#99
Quote:
I knew I was in some ways like them and in some ways different. My parents were challenging. My father died when I was 12. He was ill and was always withdrawn from me anyway. My mother has been great in some ways, emotionally abusive in others. I never wanted to be estranged from even a sometimes abusive parent. With my kids, I was so nice and not too needy or abusive at all. Yet, my son now thinks it’s okay to just dispose of his parents. He did this to both me and my husband. We know it was because his peers convinced him it was the thing to do. __________________ "And don't say it hasn't been a little slice of heaven, 'cause it hasn't!" . About Me--T |
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here today
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catches the flowers
*Beth*
is practicing healthy breathing for brain, mind,
body, spirit.
Member Since: Jul 2019
Location: Downtown Vibes, California
Posts: 15,701
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23.7k hugs
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#100
My mother was mentally ill; I took care of her from the time I was a child until she died 12 years ago. As difficult, terribly needy and very abusive, as she could be she was also one of the most interesting people I've ever known. I miss her to this day.
My father estranged himself from my mom and I when I was 7. To this day I grieve the loss of my relationship with him. When he was dying I was there for him. Somewhere along the line I did manage to individuate. This "no contact to find myself" is a crock of BS - and a fine way for a whole lotta therapists to make big bucks off of millennials who have money to spend. I'd like to tell my daughter to stop paying her T and see how attentive she is to my daughter's needs. Anyway. Feeling bitter. I'm having surgery on 4/7 and hurting badly because I certainly don't expect anything from my daughter. __________________ |
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here today, Open Eyes, TunedOut
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TishaBuv
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