advertisement
Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
TishaBuv
Legendary
TishaBuv It’s mostly them, and somewhat me.
 
Member Since: Dec 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 10,120 (SuperPoster!)
8 yr Member
1,857 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Feb 01, 2020 at 07:09 PM
  #81
Quote:
Originally Posted by LilyMop View Post
I do think in my mind I was overly critical. I never, ever said a word though. I’ve never criticized or given her advice. I don’t state opinions, I don’t argue. That was very nice behavior for a parent.

My counselor thinks that my feelings showed through even though I never said them. What parent doesn’t have feelings about their child if they are not making decisions the parent deems good? Isn’t being a parent guiding your child? Does being a parent stop after they are adults?

He also said that just because she has angry feelings about me not doing what she wanted or helping like she wanted doesn’t mean I have to guilt myself. That was an empowering thing for me to hear. He said her feelings about something don’t mean I have to feel the same way.
I was raised to not look to my parents for financial support once I became an adult. Many parents aren’t even in a position to help with money. Adult children are to become self sufficient. My mother even had to help her parents. I am probably going to have to help mine financially, and have done so in the past.

__________________
"And don't say it hasn't been a little slice of heaven, 'cause it hasn't!"
. About Me--T
TishaBuv is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Thanks for this!
LilyMop

advertisement
here today
Grand Magnate
here today has no updates.
 
Member Since: Jun 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 3,515
10 yr Member
1,429 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Feb 01, 2020 at 09:00 PM
  #82
Quote:
Originally Posted by LilyMop View Post
. . .
HereÂ’s what IÂ’m thinking. I think instead of focusing on my heartbreak and focusing on the relationship I wanted to have with her, I should have focused on accepting reality and just accepting whatever it was she had to offer me, even if it wasnÂ’t how I wanted things to be. People can only give what they have to give and nothing more.

I also think I should have accepted that she made her life choices and it was ok if I didnÂ’t agree. I also should have accepted that my ability to help her, financially or otherwise, was limited. How do you love and care for and give to a person who isnÂ’t really in your life?

I desperately want to accept that I canÂ’t have the relationship with my daughter that I always dreamed of and I desperately want to stop berating myself with guilt.

Am I on the right track? I feel so confused. One minute IÂ’m at peace and the next minute I feel heartbroken and full of guilt all over again.
All we have is today, this moment and what seems the best approach that you can see today.

I feel sure that you made the best decisions you could, for reasons you thought were good, at the time.

It's just a sucky, sad world sometimes. We do the best we can, and if something we are doing now isn't working or doesn't seem so good in the light of a new understanding, then we can change. Seems like that's about all we've got?
here today is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Thanks for this!
LilyMop
TunedOut
Grand Poohbah
 
TunedOut's Avatar
TunedOut has no updates.
 
Member Since: May 2019
Location: USA
Posts: 1,523
3 yr Member
6,983 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Feb 02, 2020 at 04:48 AM
  #83
Quote:
Originally Posted by LilyMop View Post
I’ve spent the past 13 years feeling very hurt about my daughter leaving home abruptly at age 18 and cutting off ties with me.

Here’s what I’m thinking. I think instead of focusing on my heartbreak and focusing on the relationship I wanted to have with her, I should have focused on accepting reality and just accepting whatever it was she had to offer me, even if it wasn’t how I wanted things to be. People can only give what they have to give and nothing more.

One minute I’m at peace and the next minute I feel heartbroken and full of guilt all over again.
Hugs. Concerning these things, I have to believe that our children were put here to teach us a lesson about to accepting "what is" in our lives and to help us learn to focus on the things we can control. We can only control our own actions and our children are learning their own hard lessons as well.

IMO she has a right to live her life as she wishes and so do you. Only give to her freely from your heart. IMO she also needs to let go of trying to control you.
TunedOut is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Thanks for this!
LilyMop
LilyMop
Veteran Member
 
LilyMop's Avatar
LilyMop Hoping
 
Member Since: Sep 2019
Location: U.S.
Posts: 709
3 yr Member
81 hugs
given
Default Feb 02, 2020 at 01:33 PM
  #84
Quote:
Originally Posted by here today View Post
All we have is today, this moment and what seems the best approach that you can see today.


I feel sure that you made the best decisions you could, for reasons you thought were good, at the time.


It's just a sucky, sad world sometimes. We do the best we can, and if something we are doing now isn't working or doesn't seem so good in the light of a new understanding, then we can change. Seems like that's about all we've got?


Yes, you said it exactly right. I always had the best of intentions but I did make mistakes. I want to learn from this painful situation and become a better person for it.
LilyMop is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Hugs from:
here today
LilyMop
Veteran Member
 
LilyMop's Avatar
LilyMop Hoping
 
Member Since: Sep 2019
Location: U.S.
Posts: 709
3 yr Member
81 hugs
given
Default Feb 02, 2020 at 01:36 PM
  #85
Quote:
Originally Posted by TunedOut View Post
Hugs. Concerning these things, I have to believe that our children were put here to teach us a lesson about to accepting "what is" in our lives and to help us learn to focus on the things we can control. We can only control our own actions and our children are learning their own hard lessons as well.


IMO she has a right to live her life as she wishes and so do you. Only give to her freely from your heart. IMO she also needs to let go of trying to control you.


You put exactly into words what I was struggling to find the words for. She has the right to live her life but so do I. I was beating myself up for not being the mother she wanted and mourning over her not being the daughter I wanted. I’ve got to let this go but I struggled with letting go of something I couldn’t understand.
LilyMop is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Hugs from:
here today, TunedOut
 
Thanks for this!
here today, TunedOut
gottastop1
New Member
gottastop1 has no updates.
 
Member Since: Feb 2020
Location: California
Posts: 3
3 yr Member
Default Feb 02, 2020 at 01:53 PM
  #86
I am wondering (hoping) your group will permit those of us who are pained and struggling with estrangement of a sibling.

Honestly, I can't tell you how much your post spoke to me.

I am 63 and essentially "lost" my older sister.

Is this room okay for someone like me?
gottastop1 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Hugs from:
TishaBuv, TunedOut
 
Thanks for this!
LilyMop, TishaBuv
LilyMop
Veteran Member
 
LilyMop's Avatar
LilyMop Hoping
 
Member Since: Sep 2019
Location: U.S.
Posts: 709
3 yr Member
81 hugs
given
Default Feb 02, 2020 at 01:56 PM
  #87
Quote:
Originally Posted by TishaBuv View Post
I was raised to not look to my parents for financial support once I became an adult. Many parents aren’t even in a position to help with money. Adult children are to become self sufficient. My mother even had to help her parents. I am probably going to have to help mine financially, and have done so in the past.


Thank you for your kind support. You are right that it’s natural for parents to have opinions about their kids choices. How can we not? I always worked hard and made it on my own so I did always expect my daughter to make her own way too but I did want to help her along the way. I have a lot of regrets but I did always mean well.
LilyMop is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Thanks for this!
here today, TishaBuv
TishaBuv
Legendary
TishaBuv It’s mostly them, and somewhat me.
 
Member Since: Dec 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 10,120 (SuperPoster!)
8 yr Member
1,857 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Feb 02, 2020 at 05:00 PM
  #88
Just like in the book I read, these reasons we are racking our brains to come up with or the reasons our children gave us just don’t add up to valid reasons for estrangement.

The relationship I have with my FOO is full of drama, lots of heated arguments. The worst of it played out last year and I became more distant from them. But, I can’t fathom going totally estranged with my mother. I don’t want that for myself. Even if she’s a toxic mother, I want to feel like I have a mother.

With my sons, I have been completely nice. I am blown away that he really just didn’t love me. For 22 years, it was nothing but great. Then he gets serious with a partner, and she had to have been the driving force. Still, he completely turned on us. It’s so hard for me to fathom.

The pain from this keeps surging in me. Every few hours, I start spinning. I’m trying to find distractions and practice being grateful for whatever I have.

I want to keep hope that one day things will mend, but I also accept that this really happened.

__________________
"And don't say it hasn't been a little slice of heaven, 'cause it hasn't!"
. About Me--T
TishaBuv is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Hugs from:
*Beth*, downandlonely, TunedOut
 
Thanks for this!
LilyMop
LilyMop
Veteran Member
 
LilyMop's Avatar
LilyMop Hoping
 
Member Since: Sep 2019
Location: U.S.
Posts: 709
3 yr Member
81 hugs
given
Default Feb 03, 2020 at 12:18 PM
  #89
Quote:
Originally Posted by TishaBuv View Post
I was raised to not look to my parents for financial support once I became an adult. Many parents aren’t even in a position to help with money. Adult children are to become self sufficient. My mother even had to help her parents. I am probably going to have to help mine financially, and have done so in the past.


Thank you for your kind support. You are right that it’s natural for parents to have opinions about their kids choices. How can we not? I always worked hard and made it on my own so I did always expect my daughter to make her own way too but I did want to help her along the way. I have a lot of regrets but I did always mean well.

I’ve been reading the book also and the main thing I’m learning is that I have to make this painful ordeal count for something in my life. For me it might lead to emotional and spiritual growth. I understand your pain so very well and I’m sorry you are going through it too.
LilyMop is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
LilyMop
Veteran Member
 
LilyMop's Avatar
LilyMop Hoping
 
Member Since: Sep 2019
Location: U.S.
Posts: 709
3 yr Member
81 hugs
given
Default Feb 03, 2020 at 12:20 PM
  #90
Quote:
Originally Posted by gottastop1 View Post
I am wondering (hoping) your group will permit those of us who are pained and struggling with estrangement of a sibling.


Honestly, I can't tell you how much your post spoke to me.


I am 63 and essentially "lost" my older sister.


Is this room okay for someone like me?


Personally I think so. I’m very sorry for the loss of your connection with your sister.
LilyMop is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Thanks for this!
TishaBuv
Paper Roses
Member
Paper Roses Spellint
 
Member Since: Jan 2010
Location: California
Posts: 81
10 yr Member
14 hugs
given
Default Feb 03, 2020 at 12:20 PM
  #91
Quote:
Originally Posted by LilyMop View Post
I do think in my mind I was overly critical. I never, ever said a word though. I’ve never criticized or given her advice. I don’t state opinions, I don’t argue. My counselor thinks that my feelings showed through even though I never said them.

He also said that just because she has angry feelings about me not doing what she wanted or helping like she wanted doesn’t mean I have to guilt myself. That was an empowering thing for me to hear. He said her feelings about something don’t mean I have to feel the same way.
Lily
I did the exact opposite. I gave time. I have money. I did not keep my feelings about her lifestyle to myself.

I gave mostly to her children. But that was a gift to her as well. I do not regret giving to my grandchildren. I needed to fill the gaps. They had a good life because my husband and I stepped in.

Nevertheless, the outcome is the same as yours. Worse really. I have no contact.

This is about my children's choices not mine. Not yours. I have questioned my choices and I believe I gave too much. So? Others might be grateful? I always believed my children would appreciate and love me in my declining years. They do not. This reflects who they are. Perfection is not a requirement for most people to love their mother. I was not perfect but I did my best and did not abuse or abandon them. I love them. But I will not allow anyone to dismiss me as they have done with out speaking my mind.

I think what you did was right. She was not in your life and you still made plans to help her if she came back. You sent gifts. You told her you love her, I'm sure.

Hang in there. You were a good mom. There is a phrase in psychological theory, " the good enough mom". We were.

__________________
Paper Roses is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Thanks for this!
LilyMop
Paper Roses
Member
Paper Roses Spellint
 
Member Since: Jan 2010
Location: California
Posts: 81
10 yr Member
14 hugs
given
Default Feb 03, 2020 at 12:23 PM
  #92
I .meant I GAVE money. Not I HAVE money.

__________________
Paper Roses is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Thanks for this!
LilyMop
*Beth*
catches the flowers
*Beth* is practicing healthy breathing for brain, mind, body, spirit.
 
Member Since: Jul 2019
Location: Downtown Vibes, California
Posts: 15,701 (SuperPoster!)
3 yr Member
23.7k hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Feb 03, 2020 at 01:28 PM
  #93
My husband met our daughter for lunch last week. She told him she misses me, but needs "time to individuate." What I'm wondering is if she is able to admit to herself that she was a very fragile and high needs child. I was so concerned about her that I was sure to be there for her, without fail. Apparently she felt that as enmeshment, not love. And I wasn't a helicopter mom, just a very devoted mom.

I know she's working with a therapist, so I hope the T is a good one and knows what she's doing.

__________________




*Beth* is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Hugs from:
here today, TishaBuv
 
Thanks for this!
LilyMop, Paper Roses
TishaBuv
Legendary
TishaBuv It’s mostly them, and somewhat me.
 
Member Since: Dec 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 10,120 (SuperPoster!)
8 yr Member
1,857 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Feb 03, 2020 at 01:44 PM
  #94
I recently learned that term, “individuate”. I am sure this is also what my son was driven by, thinking he needed to make a statement of his own identity. In my day, we used to call it “finding yourself”. Young adults used to go traveling around the world with a backpack to find themselves. The term individuate, implies they are tied too closely to their parents identity and don’t have a clue who they are. It’s actually a normal phase of young adult development. My theory is it is getting blown out of control right now, and children are blaming parents for their own unsure identities. I sure hope they find themselves and return to loving us parents.

I wasn’t much of a hover parent, either. I encouraged all my kids to be themselves, but to also be as good and successful as they can. I taught them there’s a time to work and a time to play. All work makes for a dull boy, the expression goes.

Yet my son blamed us for ‘not really listening to him’, too. We did listen. We were really kind and supportive. He is only saying this years later, which is justification for his bad treatment of us, IMHO.

You may want to very gently point out to your daughter you encourage her to be herself and will love her for whoever she is.

I always told mine I love them no matter what, but if they were doing something I found intolerable or harmful to them, I would not enable it. But, I knew I couldn’t stop them as they are adults, so no choice but to accept...but not support and enable. That’s why mine is mad.

__________________
"And don't say it hasn't been a little slice of heaven, 'cause it hasn't!"
. About Me--T
TishaBuv is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Thanks for this!
*Beth*, here today, LilyMop, Paper Roses
LilyMop
Veteran Member
 
LilyMop's Avatar
LilyMop Hoping
 
Member Since: Sep 2019
Location: U.S.
Posts: 709
3 yr Member
81 hugs
given
Default Feb 03, 2020 at 02:46 PM
  #95
Yes I also agree we were “good enough Moms.” I too never heard of the term “individuate” until recently and I agree that it’s about finding oneself and establishing identity as an adult. I don’t see why you have to cut ties with your parents to do this but here we are...

It has been good for my soul to talk with other Moms about this. I truly appreciate all of you. I can’t thank you enough.

Last edited by LilyMop; Feb 03, 2020 at 05:18 PM..
LilyMop is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Hugs from:
*Beth*, here today, TishaBuv
here today
Grand Magnate
here today has no updates.
 
Member Since: Jun 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 3,515
10 yr Member
1,429 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Feb 16, 2020 at 10:13 AM
  #96
This is not exactly on-topic, but I thought I would reach out, if any of you are still here.

My kids and I are still in contact but they are both ignoring me at the moment -- probably busy with their own things and I am (unfortunately and undesirably) feeling needy. Which leads to old family of origin neediness issues, still unresolved (ugh!)

So, maybe, let me try some resolution -- I did not, was not able, to "individuate" entirely effectively when I was a young adult. Yes, I went to work, got married, had kids, but midlife. . .some of those old issues started to surface, then my late husband died, and just. . .nothing. Still trying, I guess, because I'm still kicking, although. . .gets very tiresome and seems somewhat pointless as I feel the decrepit-ness coming on.

I have a better picture of my parents than, maybe, I did years ago. Not perfect people, and in some respects downright awful. Mostly we pretended, though, and I pretended, and getting a real feeling for how they were, and how I was affected, continues to be hard. Reality as it is/was -- what is that?

A main problem I'm having now is the creeping decrepit-ness and feeling of neediness. Nothing specific -- just I feel it coming on, and maybe/probably my kids don't want to get involved because they just see/feel it as neediness that I sometimes had when they were growing up?

I do have some control over it, or at least it's expression. But then that makes me careful, still anxious, and withdrawn and that, combined with the neediness, keeps them distant at the moment, perhaps?

Aging people DO get less able, and get legitimately needy, and with my folks -- I looked on that as my responsibility and -- maybe part of the family craziness? -- an honor to help them -- only things went very bad, perhaps as other family members were competing for the "honor", only in very different and ultimately selfish ways?

A question I have asked my kids directly, and didn't get an answer, at least yet, is -- what does extended family mean in today's world where people no longer live close together? And, though I didn't mention this part, where people are not depending on extended family or tribe for survival and economic cooperation and covering for one another when somebody is sick or injured? When it is the family's survival that is important, and not (just) the individual's?

It's not just up to them, of course, but it's not just up to me, either. I am/was the "leader" but we all know, intellectually, that's not the case any more. If they don't want to engage with the question, then they don't want to engage. It certainly doesn't seem to be a question that is on many people's minds in the society, so it may seem entirely foreign or irrelevant or "just mom" to them.

Nevertheless. . .I felt 20 years ago, when things were going down hill after my late husband died, that I was no good to myself or my (young) adult children and it would be better if I
Possible trigger:
So far, I still feel that it would have been -- Lots of s. . .t has gone down and over the dam. Or maybe under the bridge. If there is to be a bridge. If there is, it's still up to me to help build one. But I can't do it all by myself.

My sister and I have built a bridge, of sorts, but only because we "had to". We had some inherited property that we shared in equally and have had to deal with the problems, together.

Not so with anything with my kids.

I really don't know what to do.

With my sister, I love her -- but don't trust her. She may feel the same way? Lots of family s. . .t, and hurts, and who knows what all else went down in that family. We do OK focusing on questions, in the moment. But it took a long time, with her ignoring/avoiding (her way) and me pushing for answers (my way) to get to this.

Maybe/probably I need to try some patience, too, with my kids? And with myself?
here today is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Thanks for this!
*Beth*, TishaBuv
TishaBuv
Legendary
TishaBuv It’s mostly them, and somewhat me.
 
Member Since: Dec 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 10,120 (SuperPoster!)
8 yr Member
1,857 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Feb 16, 2020 at 11:08 AM
  #97
Do you think you acted too needy or were you just reasonably needing to feel mutual love and what’s wrong with that?

__________________
"And don't say it hasn't been a little slice of heaven, 'cause it hasn't!"
. About Me--T
TishaBuv is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Thanks for this!
here today
here today
Grand Magnate
here today has no updates.
 
Member Since: Jun 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 3,515
10 yr Member
1,429 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Feb 16, 2020 at 11:30 AM
  #98
Quote:
Originally Posted by TishaBuv View Post
Do you think you acted too needy or were you just reasonably needing to feel mutual love and what’s wrong with that?
Good point. Mutual love -- what's that? Luckily I felt I had it with my late husband, but we were both a bit nerdy. Got along well together, in our nerdy box, but maybe somewhat outside the box of "normal".

I love my kids . . .but they are not nerdy. So, hm. . .

Maybe back to the individuation question? And how that is done, while still in loving relationship? Or, changing relationships?
here today is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
TishaBuv
Legendary
TishaBuv It’s mostly them, and somewhat me.
 
Member Since: Dec 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 10,120 (SuperPoster!)
8 yr Member
1,857 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Feb 16, 2020 at 12:11 PM
  #99
Quote:
Originally Posted by here today View Post
Good point. Mutual love -- what's that? Luckily I felt I had it with my late husband, but we were both a bit nerdy. Got along well together, in our nerdy box, but maybe somewhat outside the box of "normal".

I love my kids . . .but they are not nerdy. So, hm. . .

Maybe back to the individuation question? And how that is done, while still in loving relationship? Or, changing relationships?
It’s a trendy term. When I was growing up I separated my own personality from my parents. I formed my identity and decided the similarities and differences. I’m sure it’s a normal developmental stage. What is this new concept that young adults are feeling they need to be nothing at all like their parents?

I knew I was in some ways like them and in some ways different.

My parents were challenging. My father died when I was 12. He was ill and was always withdrawn from me anyway. My mother has been great in some ways, emotionally abusive in others. I never wanted to be estranged from even a sometimes abusive parent. With my kids, I was so nice and not too needy or abusive at all. Yet, my son now thinks it’s okay to just dispose of his parents. He did this to both me and my husband. We know it was because his peers convinced him it was the thing to do.

__________________
"And don't say it hasn't been a little slice of heaven, 'cause it hasn't!"
. About Me--T
TishaBuv is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Hugs from:
here today
*Beth*
catches the flowers
*Beth* is practicing healthy breathing for brain, mind, body, spirit.
 
Member Since: Jul 2019
Location: Downtown Vibes, California
Posts: 15,701 (SuperPoster!)
3 yr Member
23.7k hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Mar 10, 2020 at 02:23 PM
  #100
My mother was mentally ill; I took care of her from the time I was a child until she died 12 years ago. As difficult, terribly needy and very abusive, as she could be she was also one of the most interesting people I've ever known. I miss her to this day.

My father estranged himself from my mom and I when I was 7. To this day I grieve the loss of my relationship with him. When he was dying I was there for him.

Somewhere along the line I did manage to individuate. This "no contact to find myself" is a crock of BS - and a fine way for a whole lotta therapists to make big bucks off of millennials who have money to spend.

I'd like to tell my daughter to stop paying her T and see how attentive she is to my daughter's needs.
Anyway.

Feeling bitter. I'm having surgery on 4/7 and hurting badly because I certainly don't expect anything from my daughter.

__________________




*Beth* is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
 
Hugs from:
here today, Open Eyes, TunedOut
 
Thanks for this!
TishaBuv
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:58 AM.
Powered by vBulletin® — Copyright © 2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.



 

My Support Forums

My Support Forums is the online community that was originally begun as the Psych Central Forums in 2001. It now runs as an independent self-help support group community for mental health, personality, and psychological issues and is overseen by a group of dedicated, caring volunteers from around the world.

 

Helplines and Lifelines

The material on this site is for informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis or treatment provided by a qualified health care provider.

Always consult your doctor or mental health professional before trying anything you read here.