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Default Jan 11, 2020 at 08:45 PM
  #41
Beth
I'm so confused. I thought I was posting in our group! I'm not sure but I think the posts are on both groups??

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Default Jan 11, 2020 at 09:22 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by BethRags View Post
It sounds like that pdoc had issues with his kid/s. Such a foolish thing to say...yes, they're adults and for that reason they should have the wisdom to know the value of relationship with their parents.
Yes, Just because I gave birth and raised a child doesn’t give me any reason to assume they’d be kind enough to keep me in their life??? Shish!

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Default Jan 11, 2020 at 09:23 PM
  #43
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Beth
I'm so confused. I thought I was posting in our group! I'm not sure but I think the posts are on both groups??
We can move to the group if you want to, but this thread seems to be working too. Let me know.

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Default Jan 11, 2020 at 09:30 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by BethRags View Post
The group for this subject exists, but this thread seems to be where posts are happening.

My kids are both doing very well in life, which is not a surprise. They were raised with a tremendous amount of love and support. And encouragement. And stability. My daughter was so indulged, in fact, that she's selfish and self-serving. I never faced that before she stopped communicating with me. I have finally had to come to terms with the reality...I have always adored her and been there for her 100%, without exception. I guess I taught her to be obsessed with herself.

I don't know. I'm exhausted from 14 months of ruminating over the whole thing. I miss her so much that I feel I'm losing sanity. I was youthful and had a sparkle, even when I was down. Now I'm a sad, aged woman with no meaning to my life. My therapist keeps saying there's hope for all this great stuff. What great stuff? Hope for what? Hope that someday my kids might visit me a few times/year on a Sunday for an hour?

I feel less hopeful with every day that passes.
There is hope for great stuff with or without the kids in our lives. I feel like I keep getting my butt kicked, but I keep getting up and being resilient. I have a couple of good friends and have great times. It’s important to be a little selfish ourselves. Take care of yourselves.

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Default Jan 11, 2020 at 10:05 PM
  #45
Paper Roses, no...this thread is on the Grief and Loss board. The group is in the Social Groups. I'm okay with either.

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Default Jan 12, 2020 at 11:21 AM
  #46
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It sounds like that pdoc had issues with his kid/s. Such a foolish thing to say...yes, they're adults and for that reason they should have the wisdom to know the value of relationship with their parents.
Based on the age he looked like, I think his children may have been still at home or else just early in the process of leaving. So, he just didn't get it maybe, or his attitude is that like that which others have mentioned that lots of therapists seem to have and that has affected the general attitude toward parents that people in their 20s, 30s, and 40s may have these days.

Maybe he had had issues with his folks? And had solved them in the way that seems to be what people recommend these days. Distance yourself and if that doesn't help then cut them off.
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Default Jan 12, 2020 at 11:23 AM
  #47
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Paper Roses, no...this thread is on the Grief and Loss board. The group is in the Social Groups. I'm okay with either.
For some reason, nothing like this topic shows up in the Social Groups Forum for me. Is there another way to get to it?
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Default Jan 12, 2020 at 01:37 PM
  #48
When my soon-to-be DIL ‘attacked’ us, she said to me, “When you don’t get your way, you throw a fit.” This was not true, I had not thrown a fit. I drew a boundary by saying ‘no’.

But if she wants to dare me, I’d like to really ‘throw a fit’. I’d like to make a world-wide case out of this.

My sister has never visited our mother, and my mother threw this article in her face saying she feels like suing her for the neglect.
New China law says children 'must visit parents' - BBC News

Can we fight the baseless estrangement movement? I can understand children of severely abusive parents having a valid reason, but this is happening to good parents.

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Default Jan 12, 2020 at 03:05 PM
  #49
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When my soon-to-be DIL ‘attacked’ us, she said to me, “When you don’t get your way, you throw a fit.” This was not true, I had not thrown a fit. I drew a boundary by saying ‘no’.

But if she wants to dare me, I’d like to really ‘throw a fit’. I’d like to make a world-wide case out of this.

My sister has never visited our mother, and my mother threw this article in her face saying she feels like suing her for the neglect.
New China law says children 'must visit parents' - BBC News

Can we fight the baseless estrangement movement? I can understand children of severely abusive parents having a valid reason, but this is happening to good parents.
Trisha
Wow! I had heard that this us a world wide problem but geez.
I just can't imagine why children raised in very different cultures would be choosing to do this?

I saw in the article that someone said , I paraphrase, that he/ she was just to busy.

Personally I can't see forced visits. Parents don't visit children after divorce or other situations such as their parents or a relative taking over the care of their child. Perhaps there were always adult children who disappeared, just fewer. I think trying to force visits would only create more discord.

But the article certainly highlights the seriousness of the problem.

I don't think I would want that. But I think a campaign such as ads pointing out the desperate circumstances some elderly find themselves in without their adult children's involvement in their lives might cause some to think. I'm very fortunate but I've read about elderly parents who really need help in order to have a place to live or food or medical care. There but for the grace of God go I .

I have a husband who works and loves me but without him I would have no way to care for myself. God forbid that changes.

I know I never would want my children to take care if me but I always thought it would be an option.

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Default Jan 12, 2020 at 03:35 PM
  #50
I have a question. Among the parents who are suffering over the loss of a close relationship with your adult child, does it help to discover that this more common than you previously knew?

I've found that grief has many facets. Th longing for the lost loved one, the confusion over why or anger at the person who left or at God. Also, there was for me a question for the first 2-3 years years as to what I did wrong? Of course I did some things wrong but if I am the only parent experiencing this I must have been despicable. I don't know anyone e else who is dealing with this and it might just be that it is not spoken about.

I seriously questioned my sanity. I telephoned friends who were at my home often while my children were young and asked them questions.

Do you remember me yelling at my kids a lot.
Was there a lot of conflict
Did I ever do anything that you remember was just over the top awful

My friends were honest. One remembered an argument he overheard between my son and I when he was 12. My friend said we were shouting. He added that my son had done something not ok and my anger seemed unusual but not extreme for the situation. He added that it was the only incident he recalled in 12 years that we were close friends.

Others said I seemed too lenient in her opinion.

My point being that I was trying to make sense of a very strange outcome. Why were my children no longer behaving as if they love me?

If this is a trend. If it is happening to some degree all over the world then maybe that gives me some way to understand it.

I do feel genuine compassion for my children because they are missing out on a relationship with their mother and that is sad.

My mother was very rejecting if me. When I was able to see her I loved seeing her. She was my mother. She made amends with me ( sort of) before she passed but I would never have been unkind to her or spoken a harsh word. I forgave her instantly and in truth I had never held it against her. I found peace in acceptance. I stopped wanting more than she could give.

I hope we can all find that same kind of peace in regards to our children's choices whatever they might be.

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Default Jan 12, 2020 at 04:16 PM
  #51
Yes, it helps me to feel I’m not alone. To learn it’s a new way of thinking is making me angry and I’m a fighter for injustice!

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Default Jan 12, 2020 at 04:39 PM
  #52
I just now heard this song for the first time and am weeping from 2pac!


YouTube

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Default Jan 12, 2020 at 05:58 PM
  #53
Yeah. I am always amazed at how much people love their mama's. No matter what. Thank for sharing.

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Default Jan 14, 2020 at 10:33 AM
  #54
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I also have been looking at my genealogy. I actually broke some of the negative patterns. It's not easy the patterns are long and deeply ingrained. This is what my book is about.


I have seen character traits skip generations. My mother and my daughter both married repeatedly. Not twice but in my mother's case 5 times. My daughter four. Looking for Mr. Goodyear.


My granddaughter is more like me. She is reserved and does not act out. She is nothing like my daughter, her mother. I'm not much like my mother. As I said my mother saw my children rarely and they were not close. My daughter does not even know the details of her life.


I believe it is both structural, role modeling and spiritual. By structural I mean brain structure. If we can resemble others physically then so too can our brains. Brains vary a lot and some have less capacity for empathy than others and chemical makeup also effects empathy.


T h ere is a Ted talk that explains lot. The speakers name is

James Fallon, like the late night host. He is a neuroscientist who studied the brains of killers. He discovered something very strange. If you can find it it's very interesting. If you have any trouble finding it and you want to see it let me know.


Good to know that you are focused on your happiness. Some people have an abundance of empathy and forget to include sell.

I'm working ok raking on caring more for me. I even tell myself

"Good job" and other affirmations. It works.


Thanks for your post.


I will look up that YouTube video. I agree with you! I’ve been practicing daily prayer, daily gratitude and daily meditation. Most days I’m doing it at least... I’m really trying to face the pain and work through my grief.
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Default Jan 14, 2020 at 10:35 AM
  #55
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Oh I forgot to comment on your statement about the emotional state of the mother. I have yet to meet a perfect mother. I have never met a person whose childhood was without occasional strife.


I was at times depressed when my kids were young. Like you we talked. I took t them to see my therapist to help them understand..that it wasn't about them.


Lots of parents , especially when I was young explained nothing. Do as you are told was the rule. Yet somehow we did not abandon our parents or show total disrespect. We did not abandon our children when they were difficult. No one escapes childhood without some neurosis. As an adult one takes responsibility and finds their way.


So no doubt we were flawed. We did nothing to deserve this. I know you do not think and did not say that our children are justified in doing what was done to us.

It's just that life is hard. Harder for some than others. I want to tell my kids to grow up! Sorry if I'm ranting.


Yes, you’re right. None of us is perfect. Our kids will realize that when their own kids get older. My counselor says it happens when their kids get to the age that they were when problems started with their own parents.
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Default Jan 14, 2020 at 10:38 AM
  #56
Where is our group? I’m confused? I’m not sure where to post - continue this thread or is there somewhere else?I think we could really help each other work through our grief in a positive and supportive way. I don’t want to be sad and angry anymore. I know grief can be ongoing but I would like to stop going in circles.
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Default Jan 14, 2020 at 03:54 PM
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Where is our group? I’m confused? I’m not sure where to post - continue this thread or is there somewhere else?I think we could really help each other work through our grief in a positive and supportive way. I don’t want to be sad and angry anymore. I know grief can be ongoing but I would like to stop going in circles.
How about we just keep posting here since it’s easier to find than the group?

I’d also like to see my son make some effort to maintain contact with us. It can’t be all one-sided. I’m still shocked that he got his head so mixed up that this all happened in the first place. Didn’t he remember that his parents are the number one people who want the best for him?

When I told my young kids about stranger danger and how they are to run away, I knew if a predator really went after them, they’d probably go right along regardless of my warnings. This was the same thing.

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Default Jan 15, 2020 at 07:10 AM
  #58
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Where is our group? I’m confused? I’m not sure where to post - continue this thread or is there somewhere else?I think we could really help each other work through our grief in a positive and supportive way. I don’t want to be sad and angry anymore. I know grief can be ongoing but I would like to stop going in circles.
Lily
I would like to work through my grief in a positive way. My thoughts on this include the question "how does one grieve children who are still present? Whether they are in contact or not?"

One thing that has helped me is to have decided that I will wait for them to contact me. I bounce back and forth on this but ultimately I believe that the responsibility to repair this lies with my children. I have reached out repeatedly and things get better for a time. Then something else happens that must be dealt with. I can bend and I have done so more than I would with any other human beings on the planet. But I've reached a limit . I need to know that they want a relationship with me. I have set minimal expectations to be met in order to begin the conversation.

I guess to break it down. I must know what my limits are as there is no way to predict what my children will say or do. I must accept that I have control over only me. My children know I am always open to any genuine attempt they might make towards reconciliation.

As to how one let's go and moves on in this extraordinary situation. I'm at a loss. To continue to hope that I will hear from them and they will express remorse, keeps the door and wounds open.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to resolve grief as complex as this?

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Default Jan 15, 2020 at 11:50 AM
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. . .

One thing that has helped me is to have decided that I will wait for them to contact me. I bounce back and forth on this but ultimately I believe that the responsibility to repair this lies with my children.
. . .

As to how one let's go and moves on in this extraordinary situation. I'm at a loss. To continue to hope that I will hear from them and they will express remorse, keeps the door and wounds open.
. . .?
For me, even though I thought/felt/believed that the ball was in my daughter's court to be interested/willing to try to resolve the impasse, I kept in contact with her by email, sending her information about my mother's passing, for instance, and other things that I believed she had a legitimate interest in and which I had in some sense a responsibility to send to her.

I also acted on the love that I had/have for her, when I could. I sent the grandchildren small birthday and Christmas gifts, not knowing whether they would get them or not. My anger, and hurt, are/were legitimate, and not to be ignored. But my longing and love are, too, and I felt they deserved some acting on when I could -- with no expectation of anything coming back from her. That helped me deal with the loss and complex feelings inside of me, whether I heard from her again or not.
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Default Jan 15, 2020 at 01:38 PM
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Lily
Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to resolve grief as complex as this?
I keep in mind that we all effected each other. I loved them so much but my deep depression did contribute to my family's tragedy; however, it is SO SO important to work through the grief--as all of you are doing in this thread--and then move on. I am trying to live in the present moment. I am focussing on my own happiness and working towards a better financial future. I want them to focus on their own happiness too and accept that they just may not care about many of the same things I do or are just at a different stage of their lives. I still give (grocery gift cards, etc) when I am able because I assume some of the things done were because they struggled just as I did. I hope the extremely nonextravagent gifts (I do not want them to go hungry) give them a positive feeling. I pray for them daily. I pray my family will feel more togetherness. It is happening to a small extent. It is a little bit like what is expressed in the reading:

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