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Old 04-05-2018, 10:37 AM #11
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Default Re: Cant take the Abuse from Quora

Quote:
Originally Posted by -jimi- View Post
If you want to see some bad stuff about NPD you don't have to leave here, lots of "articles" about how non human NPD people are...
I was thinking that as well. Lots of PC articles are about NPD - it seems to be a very trendy topic these days.

I have also noticed that people tend to label abusive individuals with NPD straight away even if they don't necessarily meet the criteria. Throwing around the term "narcissistic ex" has never been more in fashion than right now.

I find it a little odd considering this is a support site that has a sub-forum for individuals with NPD.
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Old 04-06-2018, 11:39 AM #12
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Default Re: Cant take the Abuse from Quora

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Originally Posted by smlawnz View Post
All I see on Quora is how pitiful of an excuse for a human being Narcissists are. I asked if there were any conversations that didn't make us out to be baby eating ax murderers. Boy what a mistake!!

I am just so hurt by coming to the realization of who and what I am. I didn't choose not to have been given the opportunities in childhood that others got. I don't want to hurt the people around me. I don't know how to be anything other that what I am. I don't know how to fix myself. Even when you read articles by therapists they disagree on if you can even treat a narcissist.

I'm just looking for help. I am ready to admit my flaws. I want to change. I can not keep living my life this way. I don't mean anybody any harm, I don't think I am even aware of the things that I do or what the true meaning of those things are to others.

I just want to get better.
I wouldn't get all worked up about what other people say or write about. We are hardwired differently. It's natural for neurotypicals to fear the unknown, especially when it commonly takes on a dark flavor. We are capable of things they are not. Sometimes they see it as an unfair advantage over them. The drive to be better is what should be focused on here, for with it and enough dedication, we can get very close to perfection.
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Old 04-06-2018, 11:43 AM #13
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Default Re: Cant take the Abuse from Quora

Becoming self aware is what increasingly gives us control over our subconscious drives. We can control ourselves with our rational brain, using the subconscious drives as fuel. It's a matter of giving the drive a worthwhile goal.
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Old 04-07-2018, 07:02 AM #14
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Default Re: Cant take the Abuse from Quora

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Originally Posted by Steiger View Post
Becoming self aware is what increasingly gives us control over our subconscious drives. We can control ourselves with our rational brain, using the subconscious drives as fuel. It's a matter of giving the drive a worthwhile goal.
I like that 'Becoming Self Aware'.
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Old 06-23-2018, 02:23 PM #15
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Default Re: Cant take the Abuse from Quora

Whew, am I glad to see you guys.

A little background:
I have not been formally diagnosed as having NPD. I've gone to therapy and taken meds for depression, dysthymia, on and off for about 20 years, so have been forever researching "quirks" in behavior and trouble dealing with the world/life.

But it wasn't until I had a boyfriend-turned-friend who I am positive has NPD was I able to observe the patterns up-close. As time went on, I realized that the more I learned about his behavior, the more I could see those same traits in my own life, things that pre-dated this person. It was a safe place to do my research, because we had only "dated" for about 1.5-2 years, and were just friends after that, for going on 7 years. It's safe because I stopped being sucked in by his drama a long time ago. Where I used to take everything so personally and become hysterical, now I just kind of either roll my eyes and/or think, "This is so predictable. And so interesting."

The whole time, things have felt like they've improved. Over the years, his ridiculousness has lessened, and I'd say 40% of the time, he's a great friend, 40% he's a good friend, and 20%, he's an outrageous, immature, selfish, pouting, manipulative, silent-treatment-y, ridiculous, pretentious prick.

But I could never deny the 40% figures. And despite what the articles always say, I am convinced that the 40% great friend is not just an act to keep me in rotation. He's genuinely been there for me through some really tough experiences. We haven't lived in the same city for 8 years, and sometimes it's just good to connect with someone who's removed from your everyday life, but who you know cares about you. And I do believe he cares, despite his sometimes horrible behavior.

On a scale from 1-10 with 10 being really clinically bad NPD, I'd say my friend is an 8 or a 9, and I'm about a 5 or 6 -? Obviously not very scientific, any of this, but you get the point.

Anyway, thanks to that experience, I've over time realized: this is me, too. And I realized that part of the reason I've stayed friends with this person, is because I believe there is someone in there, someone beyond the narcissism. And I know there's someone inside me, too, who wants to be better, but has no idea how because it feels so ingrained to do things the way I've been doing.

Right now:
I've come to realize that I actually don't think I know what it means to love another person. I don't mean romantically, although certainly that, too. But how to keep caring. I do a LOT of splitting -- with my dad, siblings, friends (of which I do not have a ton, but a handful of good ones), coworkers... pretty much anyone and everyone in my life. I feel much more empathy towards complete strangers and most especially towards animals and nature.

But I know there's someone inside me who is a real person and who wants to change and stop getting mad at people for not doing what I want them to do, and immediately judging people in my mind as ignorant and provincial vs super intelligent and worthwhile. I've never respected any authority figure no matter who they are, even if I know nothing about their field, I will find in my mind a way that I am smarter than them anyway; I will find a flaw in them where I still win. It doesn't matter who they are. I could be talking to the top neuroscientist or economist and think, "Hmm...he's not very good at presenting his ideas," or "Well, I guess that's one possible explanation..." I have this chip on my shoulder that tells me I'm being cleverly skeptical, but I'm really just putting everyone else in the "not as good as me" box. I see most people as weak in one way or another, and me as some kind of all-knowing person who truly understands the rhythm of the universe and how nature works.

Oh, and god forbid people should criticize me. Whatever it is, however they say it, they're almost certainly wrong, unless it's something irrefutable, like, "Hey you just put your right shoe on your left foot," or "The movie starts at 8, not 9."

I can hold a grudge for a veeeery long time, and even though on a conscious level I know I'm SUPPOSED to think that's a bad thing, if I'm honest, I know I don't actually believe that. It's like... I know what a "good person" who's not manipulative is supposed to look like and act like, but when I try to do that, it feels so fake, like I'm just imitating others or following a "human being" script.

In the meantime, my life is a mess, I'm nowhere near living up to my potential, I go running to the very people I treat like crap when I'm lonely or sad, always wanting to get my needs met RIGHT NOW... I know I'm doing it, but like I said, it doesn't feel like acting differently would be real, and I don't want to go through life being a robot. But things aren't any better this way, because I often find myself alone (shocker). So what to do?

Anyway, yes, I've read all the books and articles about "us." But how are we supposed to improve if even people in the medical community are like, "Nope. No chance. Can't change. Cut them off."? And that can't possibly be true. Fifty years ago, that's what people thought about people with autism, and 100 years ago, about people with Down Syndrome -- put 'em in a home and they'll be happy there, because they can't function out here. There are people with Down Syndrome who get jobs and pay taxes and get married and have kids!!!!

I am starting to see some literature about narcissists getting better, but it's slow going. I've tried looking for a support group, but they're always for alcoholics and addicts. In a way, yes, we are sort of like addicts in the sense that we're addicted to bad behavior patterns that in the end are no good for us, but still, I don't want to show up at a meeting of a bunch of people trying to kick meth and be like, "Hi! My name is so-and-so, and I think I might be a narcissist. Mind if I join you?" Uh. No. So I'm still searching.

This article is more sympathetic and has some good ways to recognize your behavior:
"Are You a Narcissist? 6 Sure Signs of Narcissism" Psychology today (I can't post links yet because I'm new)

and this article is really good:
"Help! I'm a narcissist!" on the page The Narcissistic Continuum

I like to think that this gigantic post is not my narcissism in full force, but just an effort to explain the whole story. Hopefully you guys won't judge me
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Old 06-24-2018, 07:41 AM #16
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Default Re: Cant take the Abuse from Quora

Quote:
Originally Posted by tr808 View Post
Whew, am I glad to see you guys.

A little background:
I have not been formally diagnosed as having NPD. I've gone to therapy and taken meds for depression, dysthymia, on and off for about 20 years, so have been forever researching "quirks" in behavior and trouble dealing with the world/life.

But it wasn't until I had a boyfriend-turned-friend who I am positive has NPD was I able to observe the patterns up-close. As time went on, I realized that the more I learned about his behavior, the more I could see those same traits in my own life, things that pre-dated this person. It was a safe place to do my research, because we had only "dated" for about 1.5-2 years, and were just friends after that, for going on 7 years. It's safe because I stopped being sucked in by his drama a long time ago. Where I used to take everything so personally and become hysterical, now I just kind of either roll my eyes and/or think, "This is so predictable. And so interesting."

The whole time, things have felt like they've improved. Over the years, his ridiculousness has lessened, and I'd say 40% of the time, he's a great friend, 40% he's a good friend, and 20%, he's an outrageous, immature, selfish, pouting, manipulative, silent-treatment-y, ridiculous, pretentious prick.

But I could never deny the 40% figures. And despite what the articles always say, I am convinced that the 40% great friend is not just an act to keep me in rotation. He's genuinely been there for me through some really tough experiences. We haven't lived in the same city for 8 years, and sometimes it's just good to connect with someone who's removed from your everyday life, but who you know cares about you. And I do believe he cares, despite his sometimes horrible behavior.

On a scale from 1-10 with 10 being really clinically bad NPD, I'd say my friend is an 8 or a 9, and I'm about a 5 or 6 -? Obviously not very scientific, any of this, but you get the point.

Anyway, thanks to that experience, I've over time realized: this is me, too. And I realized that part of the reason I've stayed friends with this person, is because I believe there is someone in there, someone beyond the narcissism. And I know there's someone inside me, too, who wants to be better, but has no idea how because it feels so ingrained to do things the way I've been doing.

Right now:
I've come to realize that I actually don't think I know what it means to love another person. I don't mean romantically, although certainly that, too. But how to keep caring. I do a LOT of splitting -- with my dad, siblings, friends (of which I do not have a ton, but a handful of good ones), coworkers... pretty much anyone and everyone in my life. I feel much more empathy towards complete strangers and most especially towards animals and nature.

But I know there's someone inside me who is a real person and who wants to change and stop getting mad at people for not doing what I want them to do, and immediately judging people in my mind as ignorant and provincial vs super intelligent and worthwhile. I've never respected any authority figure no matter who they are, even if I know nothing about their field, I will find in my mind a way that I am smarter than them anyway; I will find a flaw in them where I still win. It doesn't matter who they are. I could be talking to the top neuroscientist or economist and think, "Hmm...he's not very good at presenting his ideas," or "Well, I guess that's one possible explanation..." I have this chip on my shoulder that tells me I'm being cleverly skeptical, but I'm really just putting everyone else in the "not as good as me" box. I see most people as weak in one way or another, and me as some kind of all-knowing person who truly understands the rhythm of the universe and how nature works.

Oh, and god forbid people should criticize me. Whatever it is, however they say it, they're almost certainly wrong, unless it's something irrefutable, like, "Hey you just put your right shoe on your left foot," or "The movie starts at 8, not 9."

I can hold a grudge for a veeeery long time, and even though on a conscious level I know I'm SUPPOSED to think that's a bad thing, if I'm honest, I know I don't actually believe that. It's like... I know what a "good person" who's not manipulative is supposed to look like and act like, but when I try to do that, it feels so fake, like I'm just imitating others or following a "human being" script.

In the meantime, my life is a mess, I'm nowhere near living up to my potential, I go running to the very people I treat like crap when I'm lonely or sad, always wanting to get my needs met RIGHT NOW... I know I'm doing it, but like I said, it doesn't feel like acting differently would be real, and I don't want to go through life being a robot. But things aren't any better this way, because I often find myself alone (shocker). So what to do?

Anyway, yes, I've read all the books and articles about "us." But how are we supposed to improve if even people in the medical community are like, "Nope. No chance. Can't change. Cut them off."? And that can't possibly be true. Fifty years ago, that's what people thought about people with autism, and 100 years ago, about people with Down Syndrome -- put 'em in a home and they'll be happy there, because they can't function out here. There are people with Down Syndrome who get jobs and pay taxes and get married and have kids!!!!

I am starting to see some literature about narcissists getting better, but it's slow going. I've tried looking for a support group, but they're always for alcoholics and addicts. In a way, yes, we are sort of like addicts in the sense that we're addicted to bad behavior patterns that in the end are no good for us, but still, I don't want to show up at a meeting of a bunch of people trying to kick meth and be like, "Hi! My name is so-and-so, and I think I might be a narcissist. Mind if I join you?" Uh. No. So I'm still searching.

This article is more sympathetic and has some good ways to recognize your behavior:
"Are You a Narcissist? 6 Sure Signs of Narcissism" Psychology today (I can't post links yet because I'm new)

and this article is really good:
"Help! I'm a narcissist!" on the page The Narcissistic Continuum

I like to think that this gigantic post is not my narcissism in full force, but just an effort to explain the whole story. Hopefully you guys won't judge me

No judgements here. There is always a way to change mental habits and neural pathways with better habits, discipline, reflection, and understanding, as well as neurochemistry levels through diet and exercise. That's the long, and hard way. But it's the most genuine and long lasting. But nobody wants to hear that *****! They want an easy button. I don't have one. I have to learn the hard way, so that's what I do. There is a lot involved so if you feel like chatting more about it you can pm me, if not, good luck.
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Old 06-24-2018, 09:01 AM #17
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Default Re: Cant take the Abuse from Quora

Quote:
Originally Posted by tr808 View Post
. . .
I like to think that this gigantic post is not my narcissism in full force, but just an effort to explain the whole story. Hopefully you guys won't judge me
Very glad to see your post.

I don't have NPD but a therapist told me I was "narcissistically wounded and fragmented" 8 years ago and did diagnose me with PDNOS.

Long before then I had come across the topic of shame and narcissism in some books I read, trying to find out for myself what might be "wrong" with me.

In the world, I'm probably more codependent and covert narcissistic than overt -- but there is an overt narcissist inside, which I feared and hated and was ashamed of -- and also tried very hard, after seeing stuff in the books, to get in touch with.

For me, it's like I could be "all about you" -- conscientious, "good", and codependent but false -- or "all about me".

I think I'm doing better at developing a perspective that includes both "you" and me, but it's something I figured out myself that I needed -- and how to do it, keeping differing perspectives in mind at one time, is not anything that I could tell anybody else how to do. It may be different for each person.

I can understand your interest in your friend, as he may exhibit something that you know is like you, but other people don't get. A way to learn to understand it, as you have done. (I've done it hanging out in this forum. )

There's the current social judgment against narcissists, and narcissism generally, and then there's the abstract clinical psychology concept, which I think has some merit -- but the theory is far from being really "scientific". Most of what I see in internet research is the therapists socially dissing the people with NPD and related conditions, whom they don't know how to "help" even when they show up on their doorsteps. There's notmuch real thought and research about what is going on with us people and what is needed to "change". (Perhaps you can believe me that with my overt, conscientious, "good" adaptation I had plenty of motivation, and many years of mostly worthless, ineffective, and sometimes harmful therapy.) Maybe it's going on in the more technical journals that I don't have access to, but I kind of doubt it.

I'd be interested in hearing some more about your experience, of your friend and yourself, if you want to write about it. Thanks for posting.
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