survival vs. existence

I don't remember who or what or where, or I'd bring the post back up, but awhile back somebody posted about being a "survivor" and her (pretty sure it was a her! LOL I could be wrong) dislike of the word. While I am in fact a survivor of abuse, my question is more general than that.

I have had a lot of stuff go wrong in my life. Not just the abuse, but life has thrown me what seems to me to be more than my share of curveballs.

I had my 2nd appt. with a new T today. (Check the therapy forum later for how THAT went if you're ready for a major rant!) She looked over my intake form, and we chatted about a few things, and at one point she said, "Wow! You've been through a lot of stuff! You're a survivor!"

I smiled weakly and changed the subject, because I, too, hate that word. As far as I'm concerned, I haven't survived a thing, or I wouldn't be the freaking nutjob that I am and entering my second DECADE of therapy. It didn't kill me, but it didn't make me stronger, either -- I simply lived through it. Scarred, battered, broken, and considerably the worse for wear, I am still walking around the planet, but I haven't survived a damn thing. My only accomplishment is continuing to breathe in and out on a regular basis (whether I like it or not).

I guess I'd like to hear other people's takes on this. Do you feel like you have triumphed over the bad things in your life, or like they just kind of happened to you, and you did what you had to do to get through it, and then just moved on, waiting for the next bad thing to happen? I feel like there is absolutely nothing triumphant about my life. I just woke up every day and dealt with what I got handed, because that's what you have to do to get through life.

Just curious...

Candy

Poopiebear, IMHO I exist to survive, some of the terror I've been through has been horrendous, yet I find it challanging daily to see what I can do to help others who maybe just starting in this chaotic life ( MH) we have already gone through, if I can help just one I have helped many
Love ya
Angie

Every known human on the face of the planet has faced an incident that was painful....everyone! If you're not a survivor, then how would existense exist...without survivng you would not exist....it's that simple. You do exist...I exist...nothemama exists...Doc John exist...because we've survived. I think what your trying to say is you feel dead and that you have not survived because your not satisfied. Well, satisfaction of life has nothing to do with survival. If you won't allow yourself to be considered a survivor then you will not progress to life, in life, with life.

If we were to rate ourselves and our lives based on the events in our pasts then we'd all be somewhat screwed. If we were to rate ourselves on our satisfaction...again, we would be screwed because we will always ALWAYS find something that we are unsatisfied about.

If you're not a survivor, then what are you?

I'm just a regular person, nothing and nobody extraordinary, living an unextraordinary life. Survivor to me implies a sort of nobility, that you've made good out of the very, very bad and come out a better person for it. I can't say that I've made good or bad out of anything -- I just am. What happened, happened; what is, is; and I wake up every morning and do what I'm supposed to do, and so what? How does that make me a survivor? It makes me somebody who continues to breathe in and out on a regular basis. That's how life happens. (Strictly IMO and speaking for myself.)

I like Desirae's post.

Everyone has %#@&#!.

no one has the right to think theirs is worse than others'.

thank [whoever] that you're alive and able to take part in the world.

would you rather be a starving african child?

i may have the d-word and stuff but ... i have enough to eat, enough money, and for me to say i have any 'mental issues' is actually very selfish.

i think people would do better to realise what they have, not what they have lost.

like i donated my work Christmas gift (they donate money on our behalf if we want) to the city mission, but i wish i could have been there to do stuff in person ... i couldnt be cos of family stuff ...

i don't know. on one hand i recognise mental suffering, on others i just think well if we have shelter and enough to eat is there anything we can really complain about.

i'm sorry i don't mean to insult anyone. just going to post my ramblings.

I feel like I have existed through all the horrible things - I too, am not a "survivor", although like you Candy, my T called me one last week. I haven't conquerered (sp) anything - I exist day to day taking what comes my way and dealing with it the best that I can.

I never said my suffering was better or worse than anybody else's. It is what it is.

I also didn't ask for this, just like that starving African child didn't ask for what he or she is going through. I appreciate having food and shelter; for a long time this year both those were in question for me and I know how awful it is. But no, it's not enough, at least not for me. I would like to be able to live a life free of the mental illness I did not ask for and do not want. It impedes my quality of life, just as the lack of food impedes that starving African child's life. But you know what? I can't do anything about that kid. I'm responsible for taking care of myself. Call me selfish.

Candy,

You just wrote the story of my life, except instead of waiting for the next bad thing, I always hope for better things. Of course I get disappointed a lot, but I hope.

I'm so sorry you feel that way, too.

Hugs,

Jan

Again I am just saying.

I don't know how someone who DOES have food and shelter can sit and complain about their quality of life, when they even think of their own back yard.

I voluntarily tutor some English to some refugee students at a refugee centre.

Now I don't 'use that to make myself feel better', but it still tugs at my heart and makes me think well ... actually my brain may make me feel like %#@&#! sometimes but I have a lot to be thankful for.

So yea ... if you've got the basic needs of Maslow's hierarchy, you're surviving. If you're not, you're existing.

And wouldn't you rather be you, than a small child in pain from starvation or in a strange foreign culture where you are scared of the people around you?

I'm not dissing anyone, I am just stating my point of view.

Recognising survival IMO is contributory to healing from where I stand. But again, it's my opinion only

okay, you wake up , you open your eyes, you feel (what ever), you go to work, you eat, you go home, you talk here, you go to bed.
What have you done ?
More than a person that is catatonic, you feel anger cuz you care because you want more, dearheart, you can have it all, but it takes HARD work and time.
you have a job, you have a talent putting words on paper, I can't do what you do, each one of us have an ability

For me, I add one other word, which is thrive. I always think of surviving as a middle thing. I'm not thriving but I'm doing more than existing.

For me, existing means just being, not really able to do anything but I am in fact alive. Thriving to me means I have gone past all the "stuff" and I'm much better than existing.

But, I too have trouble with the word survivor because to me it means that I am done with everything pertaining to survival and I'm not there. I am surviving, and I'm trying to thrive, but I have not become a survivor...to today's stuff.

Perhaps I am both because I did survive some stuff and that stuff is past. I survived that. I did more than exist because I did fight to live through it. But I'm not yet a survivor of my present circumstances, but I'm doing more than existing because I do get up every morning, I do what needs to get done, when it needs to get done.

Okay, that is actually more confusing than helpful. Thank you for this thread Candy. It really makes one think.

I agree with this person that said she doesn't like the word "survivor." In most cases, having survived any kind of abuse or neglect was up to the perpetrator(s). They simply didn't kill your body. My therapist called my abuse "soul murder." I would change that to "spirit murder." I still have my soul, thank you very much!

It's overcoming the mental and emotional damage that was done by the perpetrator(s) that we're left with. It's learning and believing that it wasn't us. It wasn't our fault. We didn't ask for it. The guilt lies completely on the part of the perpetrator(s).

Overcoming the pain, the emotional and mental warping of our spirit, learning healthy coping mechanisms and not living in the past that makes us overcomers, not merely survivors.

My therapist also told me that I'm a "survivor" and I guess I am. Having had to take care of myself from the very beginning, I've acquired a suspicious nature. I'm more aware of red flags in relationships. If I'm put in a difficult situation, I've learned how to get myself out of those situations or not jump in with both feet... most of the time. I still blow it from time to time. I'm a sucker for someone who needs what I have to give.

The older I get, the more I realize that my personal boundaries aren't as pliable as they once were. Treat me with kindness and respect, or you're on down the road! That goes for everyone from an online friend right down to my kids and grandkids. My youngest son, my baby, won't darken my doorway again until he can show me the respect he owes his mother. No more coming into my house, making himself at home while acting as if I don't exist!

Just because I was a victim in my past, doesn't mean I have to continue being a victim. Those of us who have been vicitmized tend to allow anyone to continue to vicitmize us... or we become hyper defensive, angy and hurtful. To me, that's not overcoming. Survivor, yes. Overcomer, no.

Recognizing how our psychie was changed, how we act or react in any given situation is surviving. Changing our reactions, thinking about what just happened first, and then acting on it in a healthy, proper manner, is being an overcomer.

Being able to do it every time is perfection. IMO, there was only one perfect being on this Earth and none of us are He!

Candy, I get what you are saying and I too believe that it is not enough to survive but to want to thrive. We are dealt the hands we have and often I am waiting for the next bomb to drop. But if I can engage in something outside of myself that feels good it enriches. I know you do good things for many people and that is you struggling toward meaning of being here and what power do you have to effect positive change. You do have power my friend. You have the power of making friends, I am proud to be one, you have the gift of communication, you have a sense of self that is there, I have seen it. Some days existance is just not enough. we want more. And yet, we did survive. I didn't follow through those many times when I was younger and die. I didn't turn my pain into a murderous rage. And neither did you. You are a good soul and to me that is what it is all about.

I understand what you're saying Candy...what I was imagining at the moment of reading your post (the first one) was survival as in survival of life in general...living, breathing, etc... In the circumstance you speak of defining "survivor" then that I would not beable to tell you if you were or not. But to continue backing up what I say....if you survive severe mental illness without self harm, suicide, and the destruction of your livlihood, again you are surviving on a day to day basis and once you reach your mental health goal then you will be fully qualified as "survivor". Don't give up on that yet.

Wantto... I really like your word, "Thrive"! You suffer abuse, you survive it, you overcome it and then... THRIVE!

It's a tough row to hoe, but it CAN be done.

Ok... so I've come as far as overcoming most of what I suffered. Time to THRIVE. (??)

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candybear said:
It didn't kill me, but it didn't make me stronger, either -- I simply lived through it. Scarred, battered, broken, and considerably the worse for wear, I am still walking around the planet, but I haven't survived a damn thing. My only accomplishment is continuing to breathe in and out on a regular basis (whether I like it or not).

I guess I'd like to hear other people's takes on this. Do you feel like you have triumphed over the bad things in your life, or like they just kind of happened to you, and you did what you had to do to get through it, and then just moved on, waiting for the next bad thing to happen? I feel like there is absolutely nothing triumphant about my life. I just woke up every day and dealt with what I got handed, because that's what you have to do to get through life.

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I think we put too much on the poor word "survive." Survive means to me that lots of other people in the same/similar conditions didn't, make it. People survived the death camps of WWII or survived imprisionment, etc. That's what "survive" means to me and so, being 56 and having gone through what I've gone through, I'm doing pretty good. In 1800, people in England could expect to live to be an average of 36 years old (I know this because I just used it in an essay for my European history course midterm :-) Look! I've lived 20 years longer, I've "survived." I try not to put any emotional baggage on the poor word, I let it survive as just a placeholder. It's kind of a greeting in psychology I think, "Wow, you and me, we're here together against the odds." My mother died when she was 40. I've "survived" 16 years longer than she did and I'm reasonably healthy, happy, and sane and did it without my mother! What other wildlife could do as well; all the nature shows on television start playing the serious music when a child's mother in the wild dies. The penguin eggs/chicks don't make it if the mother doesn't come back and the father has to leave to feed himself, etc. Babies die if they're not handled, they "fail to thrive." There's more than physical death that faces us though when we're born and you (and I and everyone here) has had our share and we're still here.

That being true; I also think we have built-in negators. I remember feeling like I'd done nothing when my T congratulated me (and I saw her a total of 18 years, thank you very much :-) on having graduated from college. But I began to see it in a better light 8-10 years later when I had to have braces on my teeth and was 29/30 years old and long flown out of the nest so had to pay for them myself! I am so proud of having paid for my braces and it seems such a small thing but it makes "getting through" college look better too. At the time I was just putting one foot in front of another and doing what was "expected" of me, etc. and so my perception of what had happened was off. My T was able to show me at one point (and me, see/understand what she was showing :-) that because my stepmother "expected" I make the bed every day does not mean making the bed has no value. My stepmother made fun of me wishing for validation and approval for making the bed, that was one of her put-downs, as if one shouldn't wish for that or that it was stupid when you're FIVE to get encouragement and help making the bed. It was my perception that got warped, I have been doing better than existing/surviving and there are quite a few things exceptional about me. Do you make a certain kind of cookie/cake or meatloaf, etc. that's really good and you like? No one else makes it like that and that's worthy of joy/"pride." How "you" do things is important. No one else can be you, in the place you are, etc.

I like to remember "It's a Wonderful Life" and imagine what the world would be like without me. There are all sorts of things I don't even know about that have influenced people and may have "saved" the world, who knows? Jimmy Stewart saved his brother from drowning in the movie and 20 years later his brother saved a shipload of people or whatever to get his Medal of Honor. Usually we don't even know what we've done for others but I believe it's all important. Maybe something I write here will inspire or cheer you and you'll inspire or cheer your grandson who will become head of a company and influence. . . etc. We don't have to be President of the United States ourselves to influence in that manner. Think of the past presidents that compliment their third grade teacher or something. The teacher is usually dead by then and had no idea when they were living that their student would become a future president. Act as if the next person you talk to will talk to a person who talks to a person who _______. Some book I read expressed it in terms of being a freckle by the elbow and being the best freckle and making sure it didn't become cancerous, etc. We all have our place and are in "it" I believe. If we get to see how it works out later or not, we still should work at it as if we're important and necessary because we are.

Candybear, I don't like the term either. I don't feel like I have survived because that implies 'happily ever after' or something, to me. I have just got by, is all. Now I want more.

My psychologist also has said that to me. She also has said 'boy, thank goodness THAT'S over!'. She mentioned some event where victims go and publicy hang an item of clothing on a clothes line to signify their survival. It didn't at all sound like something I would ever want to do. Mostly I did not respond when she said those things I mentioned because I don't feel that way. And then, I realized she might have been saying that to see how I would respond... how I do feel. So I told her I didn't feel like a survivor, and it doesn't seem 'over' when it still haunts me. I think that is what she wanted to know about. So now that is where we are...talking about how 'then' affects 'now', how to put distance between 'then' and 'now; so now can be enjoyed. I have many good experiences now, but can't enjoy them, feel the goodness. Our work is on my 'staying in the here and now, the present' and being aware of when the past is interfering wth and overshadowing the present, and how to deal with that. I am just beginning.

So, let her know what you think about what she is saying; it will help her understand where you are and how you feel.

Surviving is not where I want to be. Living with joy again is where I want to be.

ECHOES

Survival... what counts as surviving??? If you are so broken that life is meaningless is that still surviving?