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Laure
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Default May 01, 2019 at 12:02 PM
  #21
I haven't. And I never will. I'm not a dr

I'm just trying to read about all the different main illnesses to see if she's more likely to have if she has a lot more symptoms that are common in other illnesses

Which she definitely has a lot more symptoms in borderline personality than bi polar. She almost ticks every box

Just for example. She's never ever ever been high or happy. Although there are quite a few symptoms in bi polar. A few main ones are that there are 2 poles. Meaning ups and downs. She only has downs. No ups ever. She also has never had racing thoughts at all. Not even the slightest bit of mania (or happiness even)
Most of the main characteristics of bi polar just don't add up because the main ones in it, she has none of them at all
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Default May 01, 2019 at 12:10 PM
  #22
Just so everyone knows (even tho I've already said it), I'm not trying to be a Dr. I'm not saying she doesn't have bi polar

I'm just researching genuine symptoms and seeing what illnesses more match her symptoms

Where she can talk to her Dr and ask what they think

I think if I went to hospital and one dr said I need brain surgery and another dr said no I don't need brain surgery.. I would be a little worried and start reading and asking questions

And in my opinion, whatever her illness is, is just as bad as talking about having brain surgery. It's not only that she can't be happy. But also her life depends on this. That's why it's so important. Her life depends on this literally
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Default May 02, 2019 at 05:30 PM
  #23
Probably half the psych patients in the country are misdiagnosed. Forget diagnosis! What matters is what we know for sure. You know your friend is depressed. Whether it's bipolar, unipolar, tripolar . . . who cares? Psychiatrists will try out all of the same meds, regardless, to see what might help. They will use bipolar meds on persons who are not diagnosed with bipolar disorder . . . to see if they help. They will also try out antipsychotics on someone who is clearly not psychotic . . . to see if they help. They are not treating a diagnosis; they are treating the symptoms.

If you must have a diagnosis, let's say your friend has PD-NOS. That means "Personality Disorder, Not Otherwise Specified." It's probably one of the most common personality disorders. Lots of troubled people have a mish-mash of dysfunctional traits that don't line up perfectly with any one classically defined personality disorder. But it's clear they are not functioning normally. It's clear they have an approach to living that is "maladaptive." That's really all you need to know. Your friend has a personality disorder. Whether it's this one over here, or that one from column B, or sort of like this other one is all kind of beside the point. So just label it PD-NOS and move on. What can be done about it? THAT is the question.

No medication is going to "fix" your friend. Maybe some med will help. Let the psychiatrists knock themselves out ordering one after another, till something might seem to sort of help. They'll try anything. I went through that myself. I was on antidepressants, mood stabilizers, antipsychotics, tranquilizers, drugs for epilepsy, drugs for Parkinson's. Sooner or later, they try everything that has any effect on the brain. It's a big experiment. That's all it can be.

It's possible that your friend may have something wrong in the brain. Most likely, your friend also has something wrong in the mind. Brain problems and mind problems are not the exact same thing. Of course, one impacts the other, and both may need to be dealt with.

Ideas matter. What a person thinks matters. Your friend has some bad ideas rolling around in the brain. Your friend has some bad habits. Your friend probably has an inadequate amount of good relationships with other people. No drug fixes bad ideas, bad habits or the lack of good social connections.

So getting well is tough. Usually, a distressed person will need to try out stuff that doesn't help, before being willing to do what actually can help.

Being obsessed with selecting a diagnosis is what is trending these days. Everyone wants to get in on the act. So therapists, nowadays, are big on handing out diagnoses (that's plural for diagnosis.) A good, honest therapist would say: "I don't know what your diagnosis should be, and I don't care. Tell me what problems you are having. Then let's talk about how you can better manage those problems."

Your friend has serious, chronic problems. They can't be cured. They are chronic. But chronic problems can usually be made more manageable.

THAT (making problems more managable) does not happen by a doctor or therapist explaining a bunch of stuff to your friend . . . like how the amygdala does this and the hypocampus does that. Such discussions change nothing. Your friend has to make a daily plan of things to do and has to stick with the plan. A good therapist can assist with coming up with that plan of what to do on a daily basis. Trial and error leads to fine-tuning the plan. Your friend discovers what works and what doesn't work. This process can be followed, even if nobody is sure about the diagnosis.
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Default May 02, 2019 at 05:50 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Rose76 View Post
Probably half the psych patients in the country are misdiagnosed. Forget diagnosis! What matters is what we know for sure. You know your friend is depressed. Whether it's bipolar, unipolar, tripolar . . . who cares? Psychiatrists will try out all of the same meds, regardless, to see what might help. They will use bipolar meds on persons who are not diagnosed with bipolar disorder . . . to see if they help. They will also try out antipsychotics on someone who is clearly not psychotic . . . to see if they help. They are not treating a diagnosis; they are treating the symptoms.

If you must have a diagnosis, let's say your friend has PD-NOS. That means "Personality Disorder, Not Otherwise Specified." It's probably one of the most common personality disorders. Lots of troubled people have a mish-mash of dysfunctional traits that don't line up perfectly with any one classically defined personality disorder. But it's clear they are not functioning normally. It's clear they have an approach to living that is "maladaptive." That's really all you need to know. Your friend has a personality disorder. Whether it's this one over here, or that one from column B, or sort of like this other one is all kind of beside the point. So just label it PD-NOS and move on. What can be done about it? THAT is the question.

No medication is going to "fix" your friend. Maybe some med will help. Let the psychiatrists knock themselves out ordering one after another, till something might seem to sort of help. They'll try anything. I went through that myself. I was on antidepressants, mood stabilizers, antipsychotics, tranquilizers, drugs for epilepsy, drugs for Parkinson's. Sooner or later, they try everything that has any effect on the brain. It's a big experiment. That's all it can be.

It's possible that your friend may have something wrong in the brain. Most likely, your friend also has something wrong in the mind. Brain problems and mind problems are not the exact same thing. Of course, one impacts the other, and both may need to be dealt with.

Ideas matter. What a person thinks matters. Your friend has some bad ideas rolling around in the brain. Your friend has some bad habits. Your friend probably has an inadequate amount of good relationships with other people. No drug fixes bad ideas, bad habits or the lack of good social connections.

So getting well is tough. Usually, a distressed person will need to try out stuff that doesn't help, before being willing to do what actually can help.

Being obsessed with selecting a diagnosis is what is trending these days. Everyone wants to get in on the act. So therapists, nowadays, are big on handing out diagnoses (that's plural for diagnosis.) A good, honest therapist would say: "I don't know what your diagnosis should be, and I don't care. Tell me what problems you are having. Then let's talk about how you can better manage those problems."

Your friend has serious, chronic problems. They can't be cured. They are chronic. But chronic problems can usually be made more manageable.

THAT (making problems more managable) does not happen by a doctor or therapist explaining a bunch of stuff to your friend . . . like how the amygdala does this and the hypocampus does that. Such discussions change nothing. Your friend has to make a daily plan of things to do and has to stick with the plan. A good therapist can assist with coming up with that plan of what to do on a daily basis. Trial and error leads to fine-tuning the plan. Your friend discovers what works and what doesn't work. This process can be followed, even if nobody is sure about the diagnosis.


Excellent points. Letting go of drugs and diagnoses and focusing on what I could adjust regarding my thoughts and lifestyle is what has helped me greatly. I am not "cured" but a LOT better than when they kept giving me drugs to try and I was desperately searching for a fix. This is very well said and I find it comforting Rose. There is hope for all!
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Default May 03, 2019 at 02:42 AM
  #25
Good for you, Silver Trees, that you made adjustments in your thinking and in how you were living, and your life improved. That's what it takes - YOU making adjustments. Most people don't want to hear that.

Most people want to hear: "It's not your fault . . . . . . you have a chemical imbalance of the brain . . . . . . you were abused . . neglected . . traumatized . . . . . . you need to process all that you have suffered." All that may be true. But you can spend years sitting in the offices of therapists, rehashing your life . . . . and finding out that nothing changes. I've been there and done that. It fixes nothing.
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Default May 03, 2019 at 10:28 AM
  #26
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Good for you, Silver Trees, that you made adjustments in your thinking and in how you were living, and your life improved. That's what it takes - YOU making adjustments. Most people don't want to hear that.

Most people want to hear: "It's not your fault . . . . . . you have a chemical imbalance of the brain . . . . . . you were abused . . neglected . . traumatized . . . . . . you need to process all that you have suffered." All that may be true. But you can spend years sitting in the offices of therapists, rehashing your life . . . . and finding out that nothing changes. I've been there and done that. It fixes nothing.
Interesting points Rose. I think there is quite a bit of truth to your point of view. At the same time, I have empathy for people who want someone to fix them...to tell them it's not their fault etc. When you are in hell, you naturally want comfort and a guide to help you to leave as quickly as possible, right? I've been in hell more than once. Sounds like you have too Rose. And yes, I agree, there is no quick-fix for these problems and the sufferer needs to be in the driving seat for their own life....building a life of intention. Though I wonder if not everyone has the brain chemistry to open them up to that first step? What do you think?

Have you heard the theory that ~70% of depression is self-created whereas ~30% is true pathology for which nothing seems to help? I wonder what you think of that? I heard a yogi say that. Beyond that, many MDs now have enough research to suggest that most doctor visits are due to illnesses caused by stress. I think these are important ideas though on the surface, without further exploration, some people may find them offensive.

One thing which strikes me about the U.S. in particular is that there are so many people taking meds for mood that something doesn't seem quite right. What I mean is, surely as a species we didn't evolve such that most of us biologically require medication in order to get up, function, and sleep each day/night? Sometimes I wonder if the lens is pointed in the wrong direction? Just some thoughts of mine. I honestly felt lost for a very long time...I was diagnosed at a young age and told I had the genetic imbalance etc. Drugs never worked and I gave up. So then I felt broken and hopeless. At some point, I decided on my own to step outside of the medical model and start researching other approaches such as gratitude and mindfulness and meditation. These help me a great deal. Though I still have plenty of work to do on building the life I want. It's gotten better but I have not gone as far as I'd like. I have to just chip away at it.
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Default May 04, 2019 at 12:38 AM
  #27
The thing is that no MD can know for sure how much of a person's mental distress is "genetically" driven a d how much is due to the person having an approach to life that is maladaptive. My point is that it isn't necessary to figure all that out. Plus, we don't have the ability to do so. And neither do our doctors. So we work on all of it. We try out meds and see if they help. But we also structure our time according to some kind of a plan. We can lie in bed and watch life get crappier and crappier. Or we can get up and do what we really don't feel like doing.

Think I'll go to bed . . . and set an alarm to get up in the morning .
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