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Default Apr 27, 2019 at 08:02 AM
  #1
I have a friend whos been diagnosed as bi polar.

The problem is, the medicine combinations that have been tried have helped slightly but not much

Enough to keep her alive.. that's it

She has been hospitalized 4 times

Now the problem is, I'm trying to help her as I believe they have been treating her for bi polar but from all the research we have done, we don't think she has bi polar

I'm trying to help because who knows her better than me. Help I mean trying to work out what she has

One diagnosis is hospital was borderline personality. The others are bi polar

I just wanted to ask, how do you know what illness you have when you can relate to almost all illnesses?

I mean I don't think she is bi polar because she only has a few things that match that disorder (no mania ever too)

I just don't know because she has a bit of everything. And I mean that.

No illness we have looked at has more than a few symptoms she has

There's definitely huge anxiety panic attacks. Huge dark suicidal depression. Distorted image. Paranoia (not very bad but still bad)

Always thinking people are going to or plan to hurt her (when reality is they just want to see her)

Some mild halusinations. (That she knows are not real but still lives them)

Disasotiation and Leaving her body

I could rattle off a million more things but I just think she's been constantly misdiagnosed and that's just useless

She's been to a few drs and they all come back with different things..

Is there any disorder that had basically all the symptoms?

I guess what I'm asking is how do you treat someone when they have so much wrong and they don't fit into any category

Thanks
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Default Apr 27, 2019 at 08:29 AM
  #2
I really caution you to be doing research and making your own diagnosis. It is possible to diagnose someone with anything based on information gleaned from the Internet. Better to leave such things to professionals. I am quite serious about this things.

I think too you would be a better friend helping her manage with what diagnoses have been made rather than trying to one-up her psychiatrist here. You are better to be supportive than telling her what amounts to you knowing best. Yes, not the words you want to hear but I can't stress them enough.

A few comments on what is happening here....

It is not like a doctor is able to prescribe the right medication on the first, second, or even third attempt. It takes time to get that right combination. Also, when it comes to medication, it can take up to 12 wks before they fully take effect - three months is a long time. Medication will help with moderating mood swings, but they will still happen owing to outside triggers. In my own case, I tend to get depressed during changes of seasons especially in the lead-up to summer. This is extremely common. This is when I have been hospitalised.

A bipolar person needs to be proactive about managing their mental health. Simply taking medication isn't going to solve their problems and normalise them. Things an individual diagnosed with bipolar ought to be doing are things like: staying physically active, eating healthy, staying busy, finding distractions, getting regular help from a therapist and/or psychiatrist. Most of all, a bipolar person has to make a concerted effort to avoid isolating themselves.

And this is where you as a friend come in.... the best help you can give your friend is to get them up and going and out of their home. No, you don't have to manage their life for them but you can help with occasional offers to get out for coffee, go for a walk, movie night, or just chatting now and then. One of the nicest things my father used to do for me was to go grocery shopping with me a few times a month. You can encourage this friend to find and attend a support group - maybe even attend the first meeting with them.

But as said, resist the urge to 'know best'. I know you wish to help but this isn't the way to go about doing it.
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Default Apr 27, 2019 at 08:46 AM
  #3
Thanks. I have not explained it properly in my post sorry

I understand totally what you mean about diagnosing and I definitely do not want to try to be better than her dr because its not possible as I don't have training. I fully understand

I guess what I'm saying is she has been diagnosed with 2 separate illnesses from 2 different drs. Who do you believe. Which one is right? (If either are)

The main thing is she's been diagnosed with bi polar many years ago. But everything I have read, does not even in the slightest way reflect her main issues.

She's been through a million different combinations of meds. For many years.

It's just hard to see her get treated for something over many years without much help

I agree she would probably sadly be dead if it wasn't for medication partly helping her depression

But problem is I really really believe she's being treated for something she doesn't have

So I agree with you but it's so hard to watch someone in pain being treated for something that does not fit much at all

We are just trying to see what illnesses they're are and then put that to her dr. Definitely are not "fully diagnosing her". Just want her dr to realize that maybe she doesn't have what they thought
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Default Apr 27, 2019 at 08:47 AM
  #4
She has NO mania ever. And no mood swings at all

And she has literally tried so many combinations of meds
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Default Apr 27, 2019 at 08:53 AM
  #5
The hospital diagnosed her with bpd

Her dr diagnosed her with bi polar

Neither drs agree with the other

It's just so hard
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Default Apr 27, 2019 at 08:56 AM
  #6
And sorry to flood my post with after thoughts

But I personally know how bad things get in my head and there's never anyone around to talk or care about you (lots say they are there for you) but they aren't. They disappear soon as you have an issue. "Friends" aren't there when you need them. (They just say they will be there)

So because I understand that. I do take her places. Well we both try to look after each other
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Default Apr 27, 2019 at 09:28 AM
  #7
Don't worry Laure, you are doing your best out of concern for your friend and this is commendable.

Question though, how proactive is your friend regarding her health. Has she accepted here diagnoses, taken the bull by the horns, and made a concerted effort to manage her mental health?

When you have interjected about her mental health issues and efforts, what has the reaction been? Is she open to suggestions or criticism? Is she ignoring the problems? Is she being med-compliant?
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Default Apr 27, 2019 at 09:37 AM
  #8
Thank you

She did accept her diagnosis and tried lots n lots of drugs and combinations

She sees dr every 3 weeks

In all honesty you couldn't get a more compliant patient

She's also read many books to help

She has honestly tried everything she can to make herself better but nothing works

And when I read the symptoms of both illnesses, they just don't fit her (especially bi polar... unless you want to call bi polar years of very dark suicidal depression only with no "highs "

Just makes no sense to me. Bi polar doesn't have depression only. That's why it's called bi polar. Not single polar
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Default Apr 27, 2019 at 09:38 AM
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laure View Post
And sorry to flood my post with after thoughts

But I personally know how bad things get in my head and there's never anyone around to talk or care about you (lots say they are there for you) but they aren't. They disappear soon as you have an issue. "Friends" aren't there when you need them. (They just say they will be there)

So because I understand that. I do take her places. Well we both try to look after each other
Laurie I know you want to help your friend and thats a great thing. Unfortunately sometimes friends can do more harm then good when researching mental disorders....

example... I have a friend who every single time I get diagnosed with something new she hits the books and internet and comes at me with I dont think you have such and such, they should not be giving you this or that. .... the list goes on...

finally I had to take the hard road and tell her to "frankly you need to butt out of this part of my life, you are causing me more stress and problems every time you do this. leave this part of my live up to those who are my treatment providers and just be a friend, and Im going to make a change to our friendship, in that you dont get to know what my mental and physical health problems are. why because it causes you to go nuts researching and trying to go against my treatment providers"

this friend and I are still friends but we now have this giant wall boundary that I can not talk to her about and she can not be part of my life on.

it is so hard to have that boundary wall but what my friend didnt understand is that what is found in books, movies, on the internet and in all these "abstracts and articles" is not the full listing of what the mental disorders are nor what all the symptoms are...

in 2013 america changed over to a new mental health system where not everything about mental disorders is disclosed to the public. there are some symptoms and diagnostics that are not available to anyone other than treatment providers.

Another thing my friend did not understand was that though we are friends, that did not mean I was telling her everything nor the 100 percent truth about my mental disorders. America has privacy laws which means my friends and family have no rights to knowing everything about my mental and physical health problems. The only way they have the right to know whats actually going on in my life in regards to my mental and physical health is 1. if I choose to tell them and what and how much I choose to tell them, and 2 if a court appoints a guardian to make my health decisions.

most of my friends understood that just because they are my friends it doesnt give them the right to butt in to this part of my life, but this friend I had no choice but to say if you cant keep yourself out of this part of my life I will do that for you.

my point is... no matter if your friend has 2 or 50 diagnoses and no matter if ifs 1 doctor or 50 making these diagnoses and whether she is not on meds or on 1000 meds, you cant do this for her. you can risk losing her friendship just by following her mental and physical health and researching and the this isnt right attitudes. I know Im there.

my suggestion is to just go back to being a friend and not to worry so much about your friends mental disorders and whether they have this or that, and whether their treatment providers are treating them them for the wrong problems. leave that part of your friends life up to your friends and her treatment providers. otherwise your friend may have to do this for you by not telling you the truth, fabricating answers when you ask, and holding you out of this part of her life, or she could say you know what Im done with this.

right now you have a friendship that may be worth keeping. I strongly suggest leaving the health issues out and just hang out, do things together like normal friends do.
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Default Apr 27, 2019 at 09:41 AM
  #10
To put it simply too, after so many years of this.

Recently she did decide to suicide after battling this for so many years but after talking to her dr (who sent her straight to hospital), she has decided against it. Because of her child

But I do understand why she thought that was a way out And I don't judge her for that but glad she didn't
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Default Apr 27, 2019 at 09:54 AM
  #11
It may ultimately come down to trial and error and a waiting game. I was diagnosed with over a dozen things, including bipolar which I was medicated for.

When I was hospitalized they said I’m not bipolar and didn’t need meds. They took me off everything. That was exactly one year ago.

I’ve done just as well, if not better, off meds than on.

Could I still be bipolar? Absolutely. We won’t know until and unless I have another hypomanic episode.

For now we’re just going with BPD, because that’s what fits best.

Diagnosis in the world of mental health is a guessing game. Clinicians will always disagree. There is no blood test to definitely confirm what we or do not have.

It’s all based on process of elimination, or as the docs like to say...differential diagnosis.
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Default Apr 27, 2019 at 09:56 AM
  #12
Thanks

When you say BPD. Are you meaning borderline personality disorder or bipolar sorry?
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Default Apr 27, 2019 at 10:15 AM
  #13
I'm so sorry you and your friend are going through all of this, Laure! I completely agree with what all the other great, kind, sweet, wise, wonderful posters have already wisely said better than I ever could! You've been ginve lots of great, kind, sweet, wise and wonderful advice on this thread! I'd suggest to just follow it as much as you possibly can if you want to! I'd just like to add that you don't have to have only ONE diagnosis! Many people often have at least tro or three diagnosis if not more so perhaps that may be the case for your friend and that may be the reason why there isn't any specific MI that seems to fit her! I'd suggest to just think about that if you want to! As for the rest I'm afraid you and your friend will just have to keep trying! It can take LOTS of time to find the right meds combination for someone especially if he psychiatrist don't necessarely agree with each other! Please tell her to just KEEP FIGHTING because things CAN and WILL get better at some point! I PROMISE YOU THAT! PLEASE ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT! As her friend the best thing you can do is to just be near her and support her AS MUCH AS YOU POSSIBLY CAN like you're already WONDERFULLY doing! You're a WONDERFUL friend and you WILL be able to HLP HER OUT one way or another! I PROMISE YOU THAT! PLEASE REMEMBER THAT! Just be there for her when she needs it! That's the best thing you can for a friend! Just support her, ok? You'll BOTH get out out ALL OF THIS one way or another! I PROMISE YOU THAT! PLEASE REMEMBER THAT! Remember that we're here for you if you need it! Feel free to PM me anytime! Let us know if there's ANYTHING, ANYTHING AT ALL that we can do to help BOTH OF YOU! Just mention it and tell us and we'll TRY OUR BEST to HELP YOU OUT! I PROMISE YOU THAT! PLEASE REMEMBER THAT! WISH YOU GOOD LUCK! Let us know how it goes! I'm so sorry you and your friend have to deal with ALL OF THIS, Laure!
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Default Apr 27, 2019 at 12:32 PM
  #14
Thank you
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Default Apr 27, 2019 at 03:38 PM
  #15
Hi Laure,

I think it is natural and logical to question a diagnosis or conflicting diagnoses and meds when they really don't seem to be helping...not much anyway.

Some things for your friend to think about:

- who is the doctor? A general practitioner with a MD or a psychiatrist (MD) or a psychologist (PhD) or several different providers?
- how much experience does that current doctor have? Do they specialize in an area of mental health? How long have they been in practice?
- if your friend summed up in one sentence why she feels awful, what would that sentence be? That can be a starting point.

I read that bipolar and borderline personality disorder are often confused by some clinicians though a very well experienced specialist should be able to parse those out.

If unipolar and bipolar depression get mixed up, that can indeed be dangerous as the medications can make some of the symptoms worse.

The first concern I see is that you are not the patient and so, as a loving friend, there is only so much you can do. You can offer kindness and empathy but you cannot make medical decisions for her....you need to respect her boundaries. How does she feel herself? Does she trust her doctor or wants to try something else? It needs to be her decision since it is her body and mind.

Do doctors get things wrong sometimes? Yes. I've lived with unipolar depression since childhood and doctors told me over and over again that this drug would work or that one would work. The meds never helped me. The doctor eventually agreed. I later found out that some of the meds I was prescribed in childhood should not have been because they can increase suicidal ideation in children. The meds only made me sick from side effects and never improved my mood. I stopped trying meds many years ago. I feel better in about the last two years than I have in my whole life. That's just my truth. Other people's situations are different. What greatly helped me was cognitive behavioral therapy and holistic providers (addressing health for body and mind) and mindfulness and meditation.

If the questioning and searching is coming from your friend herself, rather than just you, I would recommend that she find an experienced psychologist (at least 15 years experience) with a PhD. She could start from scratch. Focus on what bothers her most. And take it from there. For example, 'I think about ending my life because I never have any energy and want to stay in bed' or 'I feel terrible because it feels like nobody loves me' or 'I push people away when I get angry and I don't mean to do that but I can't stop.' those are just a few random examples but they can lead an experienced provider in the right direction as a starting point. Sometimes I wonder if the diagnosis matters as much as truly listening to the thoughts and feelings which are troubling a person...going back in their history as to the origins....and then troubleshooting ways for them to feel better....to have balance in life. Though of course without an actual diagnosis, people cannot be assessed or treated, it's part of the process.

Meds do seem to help some people with mental health problems but it is far from an exact science. And they do make some people feel worse. For others, there seems to be very little impact at all. A case by case analysis from someone who has been treating long enough to see patterns and trends is necessary. I would steer clear of any provider trying to simplify things or making it sound like there's a one-size-fits-all approach. There are still some doctors who are convinced that everyone with depression will benefit from anti-depressants. And I know that to be false based on my own experience. Have you seen those commercials on TV for anti-depressants with the little bouncing balls passing from one side to another? How ridiculously reductive. The human brain is highly sophisticated and complex. Any good neuroscientist will tell you that they have barely scratched the surface of it. And a good psychologist knows that chronic and severe mental illness cannot be quickly or simply erased. It takes time and individualized analysis and empathy.

I don't know if this helps you? I wish you and your friend peace, hope, and a bright future.

Last edited by Anonymous44076; Apr 27, 2019 at 03:55 PM..
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Default Apr 27, 2019 at 04:03 PM
  #16
This doctor seems to really know her stuff. She talks a lot about borderline. The guy doesn't add anything useful but you can ignore him.

YouTube

Here she refers to borderline being confused with bipolar
YouTube
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Default Apr 28, 2019 at 04:54 PM
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you might want to try seeing a dr at a bigger facility..like a university or large medical center if you have not already. sometimes one there might have more experience and might be able to provide a better diagnosis. also your friend might need to be able to stand on her own and be able to clearly explain her symptoms etc. having a friend by your side doing all the talking is nice but sometimes that can come off as a "parent" overspeaking for a child. she should be able to provide a clear history etc for herself and why she thinks it is bipolar, or what ever.
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Default Apr 29, 2019 at 08:04 AM
  #18
She needs to rework on her thinking and world comprehensive. This is hard work, but may work much better than medicine. Do some sports as well - as much as she can.
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Default May 01, 2019 at 11:07 AM
  #19
That's a LOTT of info. Thank you
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Default May 01, 2019 at 11:52 AM
  #20
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Originally Posted by Laure View Post
I mean I don't think she is bi polar because she only has a few things that match that disorder (no mania ever too)

There's definitely huge anxiety panic attacks. Huge dark suicidal depression. Distorted image. Paranoia (not very bad but still bad)

Always thinking people are going to or plan to hurt her (when reality is they just want to see her)

Some mild halusinations. (That she knows are not real but still lives them)

Disasotiation and Leaving her body
Quote:
Bipolar symptoms People may experience:
Mood: mood swings, sadness, elevated mood, anger, anxiety, apathy, apprehension, euphoria, general discontent, guilt, hopelessness, loss of interest, or loss of interest or pleasure in activities
Behavioral: irritability, risk taking behaviors, disorganized behavior, aggression, agitation, crying, excess desire for sex, hyperactivity, impulsivity, restlessness, or self-harm
Cognitive: unwanted thoughts, delusion, lack of concentration, racing thoughts, slowness in activity, or false belief of superiority
Psychological: depression, manic episode, agitated depression, or paranoia
Sleep: difficulty falling asleep or excess sleepiness
Weight: weight gain or weight loss
Also common: fatigue or rapid and frenzied speaking
Some of the things you mention fall into the BP category
Quote:
I could rattle off a million more things but I just think she's been constantly misdiagnosed and that's just useless
If you do not believe her docs and have done research, what do you think she has?

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