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DazedandConfused254
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Default Jun 05, 2019 at 09:10 PM
  #1
In the world of psych I’ve learned that forgiveness can do you a world of good, from releasing emotional baggage to even improving mundane body functions such as digestion. I’m no where close to bringing anything religious into the discussion since that is out of bounds, but it’s interesting so many sources in science shed light on its benefits. But our toxic culture has skewed its definition to things like throwing yourself back into the harmful people that hurt you in the first place or denial of any wrong-doings occurring in the first place. Some of these cookie-cutter definitions have worsened my tendency to hold grudges.

What constitutes forgiveness? How can I tell if I have forgiven someone?

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Default Jun 05, 2019 at 11:23 PM
  #2
Interesting post Dazed and Confused. Thank you.

Personally, I think of this in two ways. One is letting go. The other is forgiveness. Letting go is my goal for every hurt and injury I have ever experienced from another human being. For me, letting go is essential to a healthy and peaceful existence. Though letting go is not equal to forgiveness. Not even close.

In my perception, forgiveness is something much more elevated and spiritual (not in a religious sense) and gracious. It is not required; it is an ideal. For example, I was mugged by a stranger in the street many years ago. It was painful and terrifying and temporarily altered my perception of the world and of humanity. Over time, I learned to let go of the pain and anger and confusion. Though it was only recently that I was able to honestly say that I have forgiven the young guy who mugged me. I consciously think of him sometimes and wish him peace and good health...wish him a safer path in life.

I have not forgiven some people who have hurt me deeply. I find that much harder to do when the connection was close (as in family) and naturally the pain or scar is deeper. But at least each day I work on the letting go part.

I do not believe in grudges. Or vengeance. Or punishment. I believe these are only delusions which harm one's own spirit. They also, whether intended or not, contribute to the very worst aspects of society. I do not want to contribute to those aspects. I honestly don't have a desire to. I'll give a less extreme example. Have you ever seen a mother reprimanding her child for hitting his sibling while she hits him herself? I've seen this so many times. "Stop *whack Hitting.*whack Your.*whack Brother *whack! She is telling her child to be peaceful and not hit while simultaneously taking away his own peace by hitting him. It doesn't make any sense. And you know I could give much more disturbing examples from our world today.

That said, we also do not want to be in the business of suppressing our own natural emotions. Anger is not wrong. Neither is sorrow or disappointment or shock or pain. Endeavoring to bypass or avoid such feelings is not letting go. Nor is it forgiveness. The bypass is equally destructive to spirit. We should not put others' needs before our own. Our responsibility is to our own self...body, mind, and spirit. Part of that is allowing ourselves to be authentic...to feel the hurt and pain. There can be no true letting go or forgiveness without first allowing our own feelings to exist.

Though as I said, forgiveness is on another level entirely from letting go. I'm okay with myself if I don't forgive every single hurt (though I like to work toward it). But I'm not okay with never letting go...as in perpetual anger and bitterness and self-pity. There is no peace or health to be found there. It's a prison for spirit. It also harms the people around us....people who had nothing to do with the hurtful action. Have you ever felt safe or peaceful around a bitter person? The energy transmits.

Your example:
throwing yourself back into the harmful people that hurt you in the first place or denial of any wrong-doings occurring in the first place.

This I would *not recommend to anyone. This is not letting go. Nor is it forgiveness. This would be a denial of self, an abuse of self, and a barrier to authenticity and peace and health.

How can you tell if you have forgiven someone?
You are able to sincerely wish them (and those they love) peace and joy and health. You feel closer to self and Universe as a result. This does *not mean a denial of the wrongdoing or abusing self by signing up for more hurt.

How can you tell if you have let go?
You work through the anger and resentment and pain and allow the feelings to fade...not right away or easily but with work and time. When you let go, you feel healthier and more peaceful.

What to do if you don't feel you can let go?
Focus on self. Healthy, well-developed self will let go...that is what it naturally wants to do in time. Underdeveloped or ignored or suppressed self can lead to grudges etc. It takes self-esteem to let go of hurts. That's the key: honor and strengthen the self.

Someone said carrying a grudge is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to get sick. Something to think about.

Just my thoughts. How I try to live my life as best I can. These are very sophisticated concepts for us humans. They are not simple or easy for any of us. I don't know if you have reached this point in life yet, but anything that was really worth doing in my life was extremely difficult. I think letting go is worth the effort. And forgiveness, well that's a deeply rich bonus if you see what I mean.

I also have this notion....I've no idea if there's research to back it up...but perhaps I am more likely to be forgiven for my mistakes if I make a regular practice of letting go of hurts from others. At the very least, it's an awful lot easier to forgive myself when I'm not making it my mission to be judge and jury of everyone else.

Peace to you You deserve it.

Last edited by Anonymous44076; Jun 05, 2019 at 11:52 PM..
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Default Jun 06, 2019 at 02:36 AM
  #3
Great thread D&C. I firmly believe that forgiveness is for the forgiver. I think you are right that forgiveness is often twisted in meaning to somehow let the people that hurt you off the hook, or somehow forgive and forget but I do not believe that. Forgiveness to me is freeing yourself from the pain that you have experienced by reconciling events, feeling the feelings and being able to gain clarity. I do not believe it is a must to heal although I do believe that healing can be more fulfilling when this takes place. Not everyone can or wants to forgive. We have all managed to "stew in our own *****" at some point. Sometimes we want to keep that pain fresh and alive for whatever reason until we get to a point where the pain is greater than we are willing to bear. I am terrible with grudges but there are a handful of things that even now gets me fired up.
Some people cant forgive or are to traumatized to forgive and thats ok. In a way some people forgive to easily, or forgive the bad person and beat themselves up for a long while. Forgiving oneself is very important.

Think about some of the bad things that have happened to us- how quickly have we taken the blame upon ourselves instead of the person that has harmed us? Forgiveness of oneself is as hard or even harder than forgiving a bad person.
The main point is imo forgiveness has almost nothing to do with the person who harmed you. They do not need to know you have done it, they are not owed forgiveness and its for your own benefit not theirs.

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Default Jun 06, 2019 at 06:11 AM
  #4
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverTrees View Post
Interesting post Dazed and Confused. Thank you.

Personally, I think of this in two ways. One is letting go. The other is forgiveness. Letting go is my goal for every hurt and injury I have ever experienced from another human being. For me, letting go is essential to a healthy and peaceful existence. Though letting go is not equal to forgiveness. Not even close.

In my perception, forgiveness is something much more elevated and spiritual (not in a religious sense) and gracious. It is not required; it is an ideal. For example, I was mugged by a stranger in the street many years ago. It was painful and terrifying and temporarily altered my perception of the world and of humanity. Over time, I learned to let go of the pain and anger and confusion. Though it was only recently that I was able to honestly say that I have forgiven the young guy who mugged me. I consciously think of him sometimes and wish him peace and good health...wish him a safer path in life.

I have not forgiven some people who have hurt me deeply. I find that much harder to do when the connection was close (as in family) and naturally the pain or scar is deeper. But at least each day I work on the letting go part.

I do not believe in grudges. Or vengeance. Or punishment. I believe these are only delusions which harm one's own spirit. They also, whether intended or not, contribute to the very worst aspects of society. I do not want to contribute to those aspects. I honestly don't have a desire to. I'll give a less extreme example. Have you ever seen a mother reprimanding her child for hitting his sibling while she hits him herself? I've seen this so many times. "Stop *whack Hitting.*whack Your.*whack Brother *whack! She is telling her child to be peaceful and not hit while simultaneously taking away his own peace by hitting him. It doesn't make any sense. And you know I could give much more disturbing examples from our world today.

That said, we also do not want to be in the business of suppressing our own natural emotions. Anger is not wrong. Neither is sorrow or disappointment or shock or pain. Endeavoring to bypass or avoid such feelings is not letting go. Nor is it forgiveness. The bypass is equally destructive to spirit. We should not put others' needs before our own. Our responsibility is to our own self...body, mind, and spirit. Part of that is allowing ourselves to be authentic...to feel the hurt and pain. There can be no true letting go or forgiveness without first allowing our own feelings to exist.

Though as I said, forgiveness is on another level entirely from letting go. I'm okay with myself if I don't forgive every single hurt (though I like to work toward it). But I'm not okay with never letting go...as in perpetual anger and bitterness and self-pity. There is no peace or health to be found there. It's a prison for spirit. It also harms the people around us....people who had nothing to do with the hurtful action. Have you ever felt safe or peaceful around a bitter person? The energy transmits.

Your example:
throwing yourself back into the harmful people that hurt you in the first place or denial of any wrong-doings occurring in the first place.

This I would *not recommend to anyone. This is not letting go. Nor is it forgiveness. This would be a denial of self, an abuse of self, and a barrier to authenticity and peace and health.

How can you tell if you have forgiven someone?
You are able to sincerely wish them (and those they love) peace and joy and health. You feel closer to self and Universe as a result. This does *not mean a denial of the wrongdoing or abusing self by signing up for more hurt.

How can you tell if you have let go?
You work through the anger and resentment and pain and allow the feelings to fade...not right away or easily but with work and time. When you let go, you feel healthier and more peaceful.

What to do if you don't feel you can let go?
Focus on self. Healthy, well-developed self will let go...that is what it naturally wants to do in time. Underdeveloped or ignored or suppressed self can lead to grudges etc. It takes self-esteem to let go of hurts. That's the key: honor and strengthen the self.

Someone said carrying a grudge is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to get sick. Something to think about.

Just my thoughts. How I try to live my life as best I can. These are very sophisticated concepts for us humans. They are not simple or easy for any of us. I don't know if you have reached this point in life yet, but anything that was really worth doing in my life was extremely difficult. I think letting go is worth the effort. And forgiveness, well that's a deeply rich bonus if you see what I mean.

I also have this notion....I've no idea if there's research to back it up...but perhaps I am more likely to be forgiven for my mistakes if I make a regular practice of letting go of hurts from others. At the very least, it's an awful lot easier to forgive myself when I'm not making it my mission to be judge and jury of everyone else.

Peace to you You deserve it.
This is wonderful.
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Default Jun 06, 2019 at 09:55 AM
  #5
Thank you very much KD1980. Wishing you a wonderful day!
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Default Jun 06, 2019 at 11:55 AM
  #6
I am also glad you asked this question because this is a HUGE and IMPORTANT part of recovery. When something bothers us, our emotions are doing their job.

This is what I observed and learned about accepting wrongs done to us and forgiveness:

Whether we realize it or not, we begin with self-awareness. Recognizing harms done to us and working to be aware to not do the same to others is healing.

When the time came for me to work on the agony my family caused me, I realized I had no other choice. It was right in my face, blocking my way to anything I wanted to do. So, I worked on it in therapy and had several good cries in private in my home where I knew I would not be interrupted. That grieving process took me several months to get through, moving at my own pace I determined.

As I was going through it, I noticed that I felt happier. I began to look for ways to have fun and add happiness to my life. That right there for me was HUGE and it kept me and has kept me moving forward because I saw firsthand with my very eyes how I was healing. I saw improvements in my life. They were tiny, but they were there and I noticed them. PLUS as I worked to heal the emotions that blocked my way, my thinking straightened out. That right there is HUGE in emotional healing.

Now, tghe pain my family caused me not only diminished, it became less of a trigger for me. Also right there, my emotions slowly became easier for me to manage. Pacing is very important in healing emotions because our mental health problems take longer to heal than some physical problems.

Some things I did to help me heal was to watch movies that were painful for me to see. By that time, I knew that anything emotional that set me off was because I had unresolved issues inside me. Not that I don't get emotional if I hear about someone suffering or grieving, I do cry but I am not sobbing uncontrollably. Les Miserable made me cry a lot, as did The Salem Witch Trials and 12 years a Slave. It would take me at least a solid week to get through the movies but I kept at it and got some serious healing taken care of.

What helped me accept my family monstrosities was to acknowledge exactly how I felt about them. With mother, I knew that my reality was that I could not believe what a horrid evil woman she was to me, a poor defenseless child in her care. That gobsmacked me! The same with my sisters. I could not understand how evil people can see a child suffering and not help the child get better.

That's where I started and not that I have answers to those questions today, but as my emotions slowly healed, I kept following my thoughts until I realized that topic no longer set my emotions off. I can talk about those events without crippling sobbing. My voice might shake and I might get tears in my eyes, but my brain still works and I can stay focused on what I am doing.

Do you want to know what to do to get better? Follow your thoughts because unresolved emotions set up the thoughts to let you know what you need to work on. The negative emotions are connected to horrid behavior someone did to me or taught me to do, like how I learned to bully because I was bullied. That means, it isn't a natural part of my emotional makeup. It needs to go because it does not feel at home inside of me. Someone else generated it.

Emotions alert us to our surroundings and what we need to pay attention to. Also to happiness and joy, but by getting the problems out of the way, our joy and happiness become more prominent.

And firsthand knowledge helps us better help each other and to me, that's were the real joy is.

I hope this helps you! xoxoxoxox

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Last edited by happysobercrafter; Jun 06, 2019 at 12:36 PM..
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Default Jun 11, 2019 at 02:24 PM
  #7
Thank you all for your insight. Very well put! Especially when it comes to clarifying the difference between letting go and forgiving. I’ve heard terms like “let it go” all the time growing up but it’s been overused so much it’s lost its meaning until now. But I guess it’s the process of releasing raw emotions and processing them before we take on more sophisticated processes of relational healing. I guess it’s something that leads to forgiveness, and not the other way around. And I agree with our need to be selective with both processes. For example why would I forgive someone who is an abusive partner who refuses to change their ways? And forgiveness residing with hypocrisy is also a fruitless effort. I mentioned “throwing yourself back into harmful people” since I’ve seen YouTube stories of people who have forgiven others for terrible acts of violence, yet both the offender and victim remain friends, but I think that’s because both parties decided to change their ways for the better, unlike those who don’t ever know the consequences of their actions. Thank you so much again for replying!!

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Default Jun 19, 2019 at 07:25 PM
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahsweets View Post
Great thread D&C. I firmly believe that forgiveness is for the forgiver. I think you are right that forgiveness is often twisted in meaning to somehow let the people that hurt you off the hook, or somehow forgive and forget but I do not believe that. Forgiveness to me is freeing yourself from the pain that you have experienced by reconciling events, feeling the feelings and being able to gain clarity. I do not believe it is a must to heal although I do believe that healing can be more fulfilling when this takes place. Not everyone can or wants to forgive. We have all managed to "stew in our own *****" at some point. Sometimes we want to keep that pain fresh and alive for whatever reason until we get to a point where the pain is greater than we are willing to bear. I am terrible with grudges but there are a handful of things that even now gets me fired up.
Some people cant forgive or are to traumatized to forgive and thats ok. In a way some people forgive to easily, or forgive the bad person and beat themselves up for a long while. Forgiving oneself is very important.

Think about some of the bad things that have happened to us- how quickly have we taken the blame upon ourselves instead of the person that has harmed us? Forgiveness of oneself is as hard or even harder than forgiving a bad person.
The main point is imo forgiveness has almost nothing to do with the person who harmed you. They do not need to know you have done it, they are not owed forgiveness and its for your own benefit not theirs.
Thank you. Good post.
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