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Old 09-03-2018, 09:25 AM   #11
LuckyCupofTea
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Default Re: Setting and enforcing boundaries - Protecting Myself....

Quote:
Originally Posted by katydid777 View Post
I can so relate to what you have said here. My H, and I have been maried for 25 years. He has smoked from the first day I met him. He came from a broken disfunctional family, but is very dominate. He won't get MH treatment for his issues. I see a T, and a P Doc for my issues, and do most of the things you have listed. So far the only boundary I have set, was a few months ago we were arguing about his mom staying with us, and she is a total narcasist, anyway he ended up putting a hole in our bed room door, and I called the cops on him. He has been good so far from that time, but he still don't do anything to help me in any way, unless it benifits him. I guess I just wanted you to know you are not alone, and if you wan't you can send me a friend request.
That was a very big step for you to call the police.
In the spring my husband had a very rough hospitalization. He was very angry. It was the first time he had really been like that when in inpatient. His mother had been coming to our house from out of state to stay for 1-3 weeks at a time to "help out". It was nice of her, and in a way nice to have the support but on the other hand, made for a very strange environment. She always wanted to "troublshoot" and try to problem solve with me. "Maybe if we try this...maybe if we try that". I was growing tired of doing this, especially since I had been living this for years already and had already seemingly "tried" everything. She was in town to...distract him...make dinner. In her eyes, take the burden off of me a little and keep him busy (I think). Still-it is a lot having to pretend you are okay all the time because your in law is there. I couldn't REALLY talk to my husband. Etc.

SO--the point of me giving you that background is--when my husband was in the hospital, his mother wanted to come to stay. The hospital is about an hour from our house and visiting takes place for ONE hour a day. So...she would have come here just to spend one hour with him and would have been with me the rest of the time. So...I told my husband I really didn't think the timing was right and when he was released it would be best for us to work on our relationship and focus on developing a routine. Well--he was so upset with me. He claimed I was "taking his family away from him." I assure you that was not the case. He kept arguing and guilt tripping me that we see my family all the time.

My parents live in the same city...though I talk to my dad almost daily on the phone, I only see him every few weeks and when he does stop by...it's for about 10 minutes....not 3 weeks. Same goes with my mom.

So--that was and is yet another issue that happened.
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Old 09-03-2018, 05:15 PM   #12
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Default Re: Setting and enforcing boundaries - Protecting Myself....

Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyCupofTea View Post
...I want someone to make some sacrifices on my behalf, I want the other person to do "little things" like....if he is stopping for dinner...asking if I want anything, planning little dates....even if it means just a walk in the park....I also want honesty...trust...and someone I can lean on....

I don't really think it's unreasonable...

No, it's not unreasonable. You put so much into (our) lives. You literally give all and that we would take it so much for granted is wrong - it's abominable.


Quote:
I want the other person to do "little things" like....if he is stopping for dinner...asking if I want anything, planning little dates....even if it means just a walk in the park
I've said so before but your posts have really awoken how necessary these 'little' things are in maintaining those unseen bonds. Men are so stupid; so two-dimensional, we are. We think its the 'big things' that matter, not realising that the big bonds are made of many, much smaller strands.


I appreciate your reminding me of that - though I know it wasn't your intention. You're honest, open reflections about a number of things have been touching.


But I think you'd mentioned a few things about alcohol and drug use on your husband's part - the thing with that is those substances numb and sedate and stupefy. That is their function, and anyone living in a state of numbed senses won't have those pangs of remorse, won't be aware of the signs...won't 'play the film to the final frame'. The idea of that kind of loss doesn't seem to bother them.



Those remorse-masking agents have to go first. Maybe if he were taking things that lended themselves to reflection, moments of epiphany, it would be different, but certainly regularly using pain-killing, opiate-like substances will defeat any chances of him going through what would be a very painful look in the mirror.


Cheers!
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Child-like - no one understands
Jack knife - in your sweaty hands
Some kind of innocence is measured out in years
You don't know what it's like to listen to your fears


Big man - walking in the park
Wigwam - frightened of the dark
Some kind of solitude is measured out in you
You think you know me but you haven't got a clue

Last edited by DahveyJonez; 09-03-2018 at 06:44 PM..
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Old 09-03-2018, 06:07 PM   #13
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Default Re: Setting and enforcing boundaries - Protecting Myself....

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... we were arguing about ... anyway he ended up putting a hole in our bed room door, ...

TB perfectly honest, I canna say I've never punched holes in the wall(s) - though not in arguing - more being frustrated at something. It (can be) a guy thing and it can take some time before one is at the point where they can look back and see the impact that sort of immature way of (not) handling one's emotions can have on those around us, how it makes those viewing our little tantrums loose respect (though when guys do that around other blokes, like gorillas banging sticks at each other, we think it has the opposite effect ) and how truly frightening it can be to those witnessing the display - doesn't matter if its because the bank still didn't credit the account (we think you should be understanding of that )


We're somehow entitled to that.

Quote:
but he still don't do anything to help me in any way, unless it benifits him. ...
That's not a 'guy' thing. That's an itty-bitty, wee calculating chest, people-thing

FWIW
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Child-like - no one understands
Jack knife - in your sweaty hands
Some kind of innocence is measured out in years
You don't know what it's like to listen to your fears


Big man - walking in the park
Wigwam - frightened of the dark
Some kind of solitude is measured out in you
You think you know me but you haven't got a clue
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Old 09-04-2018, 02:33 PM   #14
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Default Re: Setting and enforcing boundaries - Protecting Myself....

Update: About 2 days ago my husband started acting more..."normal"....
He has been TALKING as if nothing happened. He has had energy in his voice. He seems to think that it is just this past month that has been bad....
He thinks we should "work on things" and that we "need space."

He went over a month....refusing to talk...being high...just laying there...watching me SOB...telling me to "go away" when I cried....not responding...continuing to spend money on whatever he wanted...etc etc etc...

And now...exactly what I expected would happen...he is suddenly acting "normal"....so of course now I am out of fuel. I've started building a wall for myself....detaching...and that wall may be over 3/4ths of the way built. I don't know if I have it in me.

I still maintain that he needs to move out...and I don't know exactly what that means for US...but....it's way more than just "some space." Are you kidding me?

It's hard to explain this without all of you having been flies on the wall in our house....wow. Someone acts like that and then suddenly "snaps out of it"...

I'm sorry. I don't buy it. It's not fair. It doesn't work like that.
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Old 09-05-2018, 09:01 AM   #15
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Default Re: Setting and enforcing boundaries - Protecting Myself....

One of the things I heard about people like me, who struggle with codependency and setting boundaries, is that we have become addicted to "helping." The person who is consuming our lives has become our own addiction.
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Old 09-05-2018, 09:35 PM   #16
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Default Re: Setting and enforcing boundaries - Protecting Myself....

[QUOTE=LuckyCupofTea;6259372...
And now...exactly what I expected would happen...he is suddenly acting "normal"....so of course now I am out of fuel. I've started building a wall for myself....detaching...and that wall may be over 3/4ths of the way built. I don't know if I have it in me.

I still maintain that he needs to move out...and I don't know exactly what that means for US...but....it's way more than just "some space." Are you kidding me?

It's hard to explain this without all of you having been flies on the wall in our house....wow. Someone acts like that and then suddenly "snaps out of it"...

I'm sorry. I don't buy it. It's not fair. It doesn't work like that.[/QUOTE]


Sounds so much like my son...


"What's your problem? Yeah, I know I was bad, I get it but I'm not gonna do that anymore. Get over it, already"


My experience that unless one is brought to one's knees in full realisation of the pain our sins - whatever they be - have brought to others, there's no true remorse. The change is short-lived.


Be good to yourself
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Child-like - no one understands
Jack knife - in your sweaty hands
Some kind of innocence is measured out in years
You don't know what it's like to listen to your fears


Big man - walking in the park
Wigwam - frightened of the dark
Some kind of solitude is measured out in you
You think you know me but you haven't got a clue
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Old 09-17-2018, 05:29 PM   #17
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Default Re: Setting and enforcing boundaries - Protecting Myself....

Oh my... reading your story is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much like mine own. The biggest difference being that while you've helped him take care of so much, I've stubbornly put my foot down. I think I've gone overboard with the boundaries as I grew up with an alcoholic mother....


First of all, I'm SOOOO sorry you are going through this. No one should ever have to face this. It's so hurtful. It's so lonely and NOBODY understands. You feel weak, even when you know that everyone else would have walked away. Weakness isn't staying... The hardest thing to do is stay and be there for the one we love when every bone in our body says "here is your out. You have reason. Just go!!!" But you don't. Because of COMPASSION! You have it coming out of your ears, and that's GREAT!!!


I wish I could say I have no clue what you are talking about... My husband literally lives in the garage/car, doesn't eat, doesn't purposely sleep, doesn't function while I take care of everything to include our two children. He blames me. He self medicates and the only time he comes in is to sober up and then he's just miserable and grouchy.


message me anytime!!! I think we may be able to help each other!!!
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Old 09-17-2018, 07:54 PM   #18
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Default Re: Setting and enforcing boundaries - Protecting Myself....

Quote:
Originally Posted by DahveyJonez View Post
Hi.


Look, I'm not gonna tell you what you should or shouldn't do or give any advice. You've probably received a lot of that already by your friends, family, coworkers and I'm sure the vast majority of it being of the "throw the lazy sod out, he doesn't deserve you, your just enabling..." variety. And they are right - he doesn't and you are.


But you already knew that.


I just wanted to thank you for being so strong, for giving your life, the very best of it to your husband, to anyone of us so blessed to have had someone very, very much like you in our lives. And - yeah, we do know the truth - you could have easily had so much more.


But you chose him because you saw something - what was it? Despite all of the "My GOD!! What does she SEE??" that you probably overheard, you did see something, if only glimmers, hints of what he could have - should have - will become - never became .


Just wondering what's going on in his head.


Is he waiting for pain to clear his mind? Will terrible pain of loss wake him up? When he finally realizes that he could literally spend a lifetime searching for someone like you only to find that you really were one of a kind? The best thing he could ever have and then has to answer some self-flagellating compulsion to throw it away, over and over again.


He may be living under a cloud of delusion about a lot of things. False beliefs, the belief that life lasts forever, that hearts will always mend, that a heart can be starved without consequences.


Does he think that getting his butt in gear, going to his twelve steps, taking his meds, putting on the tie you bought him for job interviews gonna sweep you off your feet then? Maybe he even checks out a how-to-win-them-back/save your marriage book. Maybe he finally kicks the heroin/exorcises his infantile demon/frees himself of whatever to finally become the man you knew was there all along. And it really was tough, he truly overcame his __________ for you, because he really did love you.

And you would have been so proud of him. But it won't be you anymore. Starving a heart for need has sad consequences and he succeeded in convincing you that you are better off, much better off with ...


Your post really tore me up to read. I see the kind of man my son might become, his long-suffering wife telling someone this story. I see the man that I might have become.


Your husband doesn't have the presence of mind, a mind clouded with dope, biochemistry out of whack, whatever - to say this so I will do it for him.


"Thank you. I did see. I did see you all of this time. I knew. Your love did save me"




I have to thank you as well for reminding me of something and with that, I'm going to wrap up things up early and go take my wife, who's having to attend meetings at another office across town, out for lunch. I've not done that in way, way too long.


Nothing fancy, Just shoot the breeze. Maybe even order a bottle of wine that she likes.


Thank you
LOVE LOVE LOVE your words!!! Maybe not meant for me, but I needed to hear them too. Thank you.
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Old 09-17-2018, 08:01 PM   #19
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Default Re: Setting and enforcing boundaries - Protecting Myself....

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Wow. This response. You understand. It hurts so much....
I think at some point he will "wake up" and by that time...I'm afraid it will be too late...and I hate that. Timing is really everything. We aren't on the same page. He is self-sabataging...and I think that partly it is because he has given up...partly because he is hurt...he is fighting this awful battle...or he isn't fighting at all. He thinks lowly of himself...and he knows that I'm in pain but he's not taking action and has not taken action in a long time. The action he has taken over the years is unfortunately minimal. I always attributed to "it's the best he can give. I should be happy he's finally willing to TRY meds and therapy". That was always my excuse in recent years. "at least he's finally in therapy" but we are going on 5 years of that excuse. He may be ahead of where he was when he was into worse drugs, but the stability has almost primarily been as a result of myself keeping up with this life for him. The stability has only been glimpses of stability.

The "why would you be with him" question is something that the other part of me has always asked. Potential. Potential is a dangerous word I think. Loving someone right here and now....rather than what you believe is inside...loving the glimpses of the person he is...wow. I am having loads of epiphanies lately. It isn't that i haven't examined my choices and my life with him over the years. I have...but only lightly and only long enough to not try anything different.

I'm afraid also that he will "snap out of it" and go into that person that I'm so in love with (the one that I get to have glimpses of...sometimes for hours...sometimes for a few weeks or even months)....and then I'll be weak and rethink what I'm heading for.

I have been sobbing lately every few days. Crying every day. Mourning something even though he is still at the house. I'm so scared for him and his future.

We had hope....and that hope keeps getting more and more limited. The reality is that in the here and now...the relationship is minuscule or even nonexistent. Yesterday I saw him talking to our toy poodle and it was heartbreaking for me.

I thought I could give him the life that no one else thought he could have.................................................
So I too am deeply flawed. In most other aspects of my life...I'm a realist. When it comes to my husband, I do truly have rose-colored glasses. Always have. I can bash him...I can criticize him...I can see from an outsider's perspective how one-sided the relationship is.....but I also have that unconditional love....it's not healthy. It's like a mother-son thing.

My needs aren't being met. :-( I thought that I could handle that though. I thought that I could handle this life......because I believed he would eventually completely commit to taking care of himself. Yeah...I'm an enabler. I'm a controller. And here I am....broken.

Seeming normal. Holding my **** together at work.... but so broken.
I will and am continuing to see a therapist. I just had her put me in weekly for the foreseeable future.

Still--I feel like I am turning my back on someone. Throwing him away. Letting him do this to himself....
But that's a flawed way of thinking. I didn't make him choose to give me the silent treatment for a month. I certainly didn't suggest he stop his meds...I didn't spend his paychecks. I didn't buy him drugs or give him money for it. I certainly didn't suggest that he start drinking vodka...........

THIS SUCKS.
Unconditional love is the most beautiful love there is. Agape. You are a wonderful, beautiful person. Not one ounce of you is weak. And yes - THIS SUCKS!!!!!!!! My situation is so similar and I HATE it with every ounce of my being it makes me so crazy. It's hard not to hate him too and sometimes I do. I'm with you, girl. I'm so with you. I'm so sorry.
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Old 09-18-2018, 12:23 PM   #20
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Default Re: Setting and enforcing boundaries - Protecting Myself....

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Unconditional love is the most beautiful love there is. Agape. You are a wonderful, beautiful person. Not one ounce of you is weak. And yes - THIS SUCKS!!!!!!!! My situation is so similar and I HATE it with every ounce of my being it makes me so crazy. It's hard not to hate him too and sometimes I do. I'm with you, girl. I'm so with you. I'm so sorry.
I appreciate the kind words...but as I write this, I wonder if I deserve the praise....because I think I am really becoming the person that may have to truly walk away for her own good and self preservation. It does feel like abandonment. It's hard because while he DEFINITELY has the ability to make choices (ex: spend money, work part time, spend lots of time with friends, smoke a lot of weed....he used to mow the lawn and do projects with me...now I'm doing EVERYTHING).....He does still have a childish sense about him...and not just in that he acts like a teenager. Things are black and white.
[I think] that he thinks that we are "arguing a lot" but...we aren't talking at all. He completely stopped talking to me for a month but lived at home and then when I confronted him he told me to "go away".

So here is an update:
The same things continued to go on. He was spending a lot of time with this "former" druggie friend whose brother just died of an unknown cause. My husband was getting home really late. Still just living either in the basement or guest room. Tissues all over the floor. Clothing everywhere. I basically stopped cleaning up after him and let him have a space....disgusting.

He refused to talk. Each time I would see him (every few days), I'd ask when he was moving out. He said that there was a trailer on a the farm where he works...and that a girl currently lives there and is moving out. He says she is a "hippie" and therefore won't give him a date. So his answers to me were "I don't know" and... "I've already told you. Don't ask me again!"

I hadn't seen my husband for about 2 days and I got home from my therapist appointment...there he was laying on the basement couch with the video game system on in the background. I asked if he could get up for a moment so that we could talk. He said "no." I said...."we need to talk. I need to know when you are moving out. This isn't fair to me". He said nothing.
I continued-"listen...this sucks for BOTH of us...but we need to move forward and not live in limbo." He said "GO UPSTAIRS". This went on for a while. Finally when I refused to go upstairs he got up and "took" me to the stairs. I was like "what is wrong with you? Do NOT touch me. I do not want to HAVE you removed by the police"

So that was horrible. Heated, sad, horrible. Not surprising.
I texted his mother who is in another state to reiterate that he is unstable and volatile. She of course called me and said she would come to town after the hurricane subsided and "get him to go to the hospital".

That's a new one. Last time I tried to convince him to go to the hospital...it was what I thought was one of the worst 2 weeks of my life. He wouldn't budge...he said "I've got this". Right....

He even said that as an answer when we were in couples therapy. The therapist (knowing my husband's mental illness background etc) asked him something...and my husband said "I got this" and the therapist was like "what exactly have you got....what is --this--"...to which he had no reply.

My mother in law likes to come to town and try to help my husband. I think she thinks she will preserve the relationship. She tells me she's sorry I am going through this and hopes my husband will "rejoin" the relationship and planet earth. She doesn't seem to grasp that I've just about given up.

Moving on--So the day after my husband's massive explosion....the next day he called me while I was at work and said nonchalantly that he was going to temporarily move in with a friend until this other place was ready. I asked him questions about it...he hung up. When I got home he was on the couch playing video games. I cried in the other room as he packed up his tv, video games, and some clothing and left. He hasn't been back since. He has a lot of stuff at the house still.

He told me that it is the "first step" towards reconciliation. What? No. We have in my mind been separated for a few weeks at this point, even with him living at the house technically. NO relationship.

I'm devastated. Sure. I can talk about this logically. I am just typing after all. I can hold my sh** together at work for the most part and even with friends as I describe my situation....but at home...I'm crying. Right now at my desk...I could easily cry.

It's so hard. I'm so confused. The man that I love is only present mentally about 50% of the time or less. Other times he's out of it, at friend's....zoning out, sleeping, in the hospital, avoiding me...lying to me...

And yet I think of the way he used to and OCCASIONALLY still does look at me. I think of his laugh. I think about the wonderful adventures we have had. His amazing story-telling....his smile...the way he gets when I give him a gift....the projects we have done around the house..

Then I think about how lying has become "our" normal. I don't trust a word he says pretty much. The fact that he doesn't take the time to think about me and my needs and doesn't have the capacity to fulfill those needs.

I am in love with someone who doesn't have the capacity to fulfill my needs. Additionally--he smokes a lot of weed, spends all of the money he makes while I pay every bill, lies, spends more time with friends than me...thinks just living at the same house means spending time together....

AND I STILL LOVE HIM. He's been around since I was 16 and we started dating when I was 18. I'm 30 now. The relationship has been a roller coaster from DAY 1.

I'm a mess.

And then legally I want to cover myself...but I don't want to call a real attorney because I don't know what's going on right now. I want to protect myself financially. he's not on any of my account, but I'm on one of his (since he can't manage money...or won't). He doesn't use a bank pretty much. He cashes checks and spends the money that way...but he's on the same car insurance. Should we have a separation agreement (there is no legal separation in my state --PA)?

I considered asking this to my attorney aunt. She's a real estate attorney but would probably have a friend to ask. I just don't want to involve anyone else in this.:-(

I make all decisions. I think that also is what is so hard. Sure...he's not trying to make any steps to make things better...but he would never initiate any legal paperwork...he doesn't want this.....

I don't want this but I might need it. As you can see--I am really on a wacky, confused emotional mountain and am not sure how to navigate. I asked him to move out because we had no relationship. I MISS the TINY amount of moments we have had. If I could have that version of him all the time...even 75% of the time....but....that's not an option.

Our lives are so intertwined.
We bought this house together a year ago.
All my money.
He has a lot of stuff in the house.
:-( I don't know what I'll do if/when he really really moves his stuff out.......

I also still worry about him being a danger to himself. I think any moment he could snap and hurt himself. It sucks.

That's what it comes down to. I wish I had a guide....
"idiot's guide to screwed up, one-sided relationships with person with serious mental illness"
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