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Default Dec 20, 2018 at 09:59 AM
  #21
Hi David,

The court decisions in your favor come to naught if your wife refuses to recognize them. You may need a divorce and total custody. I hope she won't have any visitation rights, because she sounds likely to abuse those rights. I would talk to the children about the possibility of divorce. She is focused on herself and her new lover and not the children nor you.


I am sorry to hear your wife's family wants nothing to do with you. Unfortunately, you may have to let them go. I hope you found support outside of PsychCentral, because you may need help from friends that you can meet face-to-face. While we are "there" for you, we cannot be physically there for you. You are in my prayers.
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Default Dec 20, 2018 at 10:09 AM
  #22
Unfortunately, it seems to be part of human nature to decide that if someone doesn't have the same beliefs as you do then they are bad or should be shunned or somehow eliminated.

Here in the US, if someone is politically different right away they need to be shunned and are somehow "bad". This is true when it comes to religion too. This seems to be something evident in our human nature and can be seen in the history of human beings as well. I think that when it comes to human beings, they are actually very malleable to being encouraged to follow a certain way of perceiving how to live one's life. The true evil is how this takes place in human nature itself and how it has been so incredibly destructive to human life itself. For example, in China there are actual concentration camps where literally thousands of people are held captive in an effort to get them to conform to certain loyalties and beliefs. And thousands are executed simply because their beliefs are different and don't conform to the main rule of what people have to believe and follow in that country. This is actually something that takes place in other countries too where people are executed even in masses if they don't agree to follow a certain way of living their lives. Prejudice and racism is nothing new in our human nature. For as much as we have learned and as smart as we have become, the one thing we continue to fail at is how we seem to need to have everyone agree to how to live our lives a certain way. So, if you really sit and think about it, human nature itself is somewhat "disordered". The fact that you somehow got drawn into this woman's personal madness doesn't mean you failed either, unfortunately, we human beings can be drawn into things and believe these things without seeing the dangers in how bad or toxic things can get. We all can be convinced to "follow" and lots of people have met horrible ends by being convinced to follow some kind of "cult" where a leader can be so incredibly convincing and yet, is actually quite "mad". Actually, the so called Church of Scientology began by a kind of bet where a man tried to prove that he could design a kind of religion himself and that he could get a large number of followers. He proved that he was right and there actually are a lot of people who follow that so called religion, and there are some very disturbing and toxic things that take place in that religion too.

It's really not all that surprising that this woman you are talking about CAN be so convincing where people do believe her. She has learned how to manipulate people and she even knows who will believe her too. After all, human beings can be gifted storytellers and can act out parts where they can be so incredibly believable too. Some become writers, some directors, some become actors that do so incredibly well they win big awards for how well they portrayed a character in a part.

So, remember that you were just someone that this woman was able to manipulate and that you have noticed that she is VERY GOOD at manipulating people. Often, a person doesn't see the true reality of this until they get involved with this person and start to see how this person twists realities around as you have described experiencing.
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Default Dec 20, 2018 at 11:08 AM
  #23
Hi Blogwriter

I asked for divorce 6 months ago, but as she acts against it, it takes long and longer.
I asked, at the same time for sole custody presenting objective facts (school and private detective reports) and asked for only surveilled meeting of my children with their mother.

The court made a provisional regulation 50/50 and some additional regulations that she does not follow. The 50/50 she follows as the children made clear that not following this would make her lose costody immediately. Actually, the children are afraid that she could custody because of their words and acting and so try to follow the court decisions by themselfs.

Concerning the divorce, I was told that as I want custody, I need to wait about a year or more for some official investigation will be finished.
Anyway, when I ask for the official investigation to start, I'm told I must bring evidence about the situation.
So, to bring evidence by an official investigation, I need to bring first evidence that I cannot bring because data-protection-laws.

It is incredible complicated to get a simple "psychological investigation" on the whole family . even though I was told that Spanish law gives every parent the right to ASK for that investigation.
Yeah, one can ask, but one must present evidence that one cannot present due to the laws.

Anyway, I try to bother the social service and hope that sooner or later they will do their job.
Concerning the family of my wife: we were always cross, as the communication was only through my wife and she told them how evil I am and she told me how abusing and evil her mother was, so no one would talk with the other.

I send my "mother-in-law" an excuse that I did "hate" her and only because of the words her doughter would tell me about her. I have no idea what she did or not did, the very few occasions I was speaking with her, she was distanced by friendly talking with me. Last time about 4 years ago.

My wife's sister lives in Switzerland and has a Swiss husband and both hate me because what Bara told them I did and I, until recently was told about how bad parents they were and did not talk to them.
I have written an excuse and sent to them, but they do not dare to answer to me.

Anyway, I have a partner, living with my old father and the father of my partner, we have friends and people around helping and talking, many of them know my wife and have lot of own experience with her.
My partner has been living with my wife and me since 2015, so she knows my wife well.

I have talked with my both older children about mythomania, and my daughter has own experience with that, but she cannot believe that every sentence is a story and many times, when I remind her that something her mother said to her is not true, she becomes very sad. I try to talk about their mother only if that is necessary as a reaction to something she did.
My son does not even want to think anything "bad" about his mother and tries to justify evident lies as miss-understandings and accidental mistakes. It may take some more more time for him to get enough distance to be able to analyze the situation more objectively.

My youngest sometimes comes with stories like that her parrot was killed by a rat that opened the cage... as her mother explained to her.
Once her mother has forbidden her to speak the "nazi language" that I speak and confuses my children about their nationality and other (not really important) things.

It is allways about grouping our children to her and excluding me from the group. Anyway, I go not think that works, as they spend every second week the week with me, my partner, my father and her father and have plenty of experience how we really are... I think the children will understand sooner or later that their mother is a story-teller who lost her connection to reality.

Best wishes
David
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Default Dec 20, 2018 at 11:31 AM
  #24
Hi Open Eyes

When I was gathering some information about mythomania/pseudologia phantastica I found that in the first part of the 20th century, there was LOTS of investigation and research done in this field. Then, the interest stopped and this condition faded from the "mass-awareness" completely.

Today, I have the feeling as if we life in a mythomania-world and it is normal to tell stories and try to make as much as possible people believe to that, somtimes completely nonsense-stories. How many mythomaniacs are in politics & media?

The things you tell about China might be true, I cannot tell. I had some contact with Chineese people and they seem to think less individually than europeans/US-americans, maybe it is because those showing "too much" individual thinking are enslaved or killed? Possible.
In Europe, these days, when you do not follow the propaganda of the governments, you won't get killed, but might loose your existence, your job, your family, are publically marked as "rassist" or "nazi" or whatever is used to "ban" you from the "good people".

I believe that our world is on a fast track to war (civil at first) and for waging war, lies are essential, so our world seems to become a mythmaniac world everywhere.

Anyway, the condition, for the individual, is a different thing. One can quite clearly understand the difference to a sane person. Are there ANY SANE countries on earth, Today? I do not think so.

Who knows what kind of experiements with humans are made, how many children are intentionally bred for child trafficking, secret mental experiments, slavery?

Best wishes
David

Last edited by DavidJanS; Dec 20, 2018 at 01:38 PM..
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Default Dec 21, 2018 at 08:29 PM
  #25
Your partner lived with you and your wife since 2015? Are you in open marriage or something?
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Default Dec 22, 2018 at 11:40 AM
  #26
Hi David,

I am sorry to hear the investigation takes so long. You did the right thing by moving out. Is there any way you can have a divorce without your wife's permission? After all, she is unfaithful.
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Default Dec 23, 2018 at 07:26 AM
  #27
Divine1966

Our helper who came to help us with the children because my wife did not manage childcare and I needed to work (on my laptop at home, but anyway), in 2015 lived with us every day.
After about 8 months daily care of the children, taking no holiday, no money, living with the family (spending most time of each day with my children and my wife) as a friend, day-by-day, she became not just friend of my children but our partner as well.

My wife told her that she loves her and my wife told many times that she has bi-sexual desires.
Anyway, it would not work, as my wife for some hours was freindly and "loving" and the next hour ranted in a very problematic way and before my children and so I asked her to see a psychiatrist to check those mood-changes within so short time periods.

But she explained to the psychiatrist that she is depressive because I was so mean to her, received sertralina to stabilze - and the psychiatrist refused to talk to me about the problem.

Before, we had aupair-girls because my wife was never able to really take care. Actually, these days, when the children are at her place, my oldest daughter is the one who cares about her siblings, cooks, makes sure things run smooth and the most important things will be done.

The last "aupair-girl-to-be" came in 2015, became friend, never received any payment, never worked for money, never took "holidays" or "free weekends" and became later our partner.

My wife told me so many stories, one of that was that she would prefer living with a female partner... but, again, just stories, she cannot live with any PARNTER, just with a BELIEVER for the time that person is believing her...

Best wishes
David
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Default Dec 23, 2018 at 07:28 AM
  #28
Hi Blogwriter

Sure, divorce without consent is possible, but it takes LONG and as I want to have the psychological investigation done, the divorce seems to need to wait until that investigation will be finished.

My wife told that she will give consent, haha, I still find so many things she said that I believed...

Best wishes
David
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Default Dec 23, 2018 at 08:28 AM
  #29
Hi folks

I want to emphasize that I surely did many mistakes, I think the most important is that I have tried to NOT care about the problems.
I have focussed on other things, mostly work and childcare and tried to not care about problems with my wife and people she talked with.

Many times I took the things my wife told me for real and I relied on her statements. From Today's view I can see how she manipulated and lied to me, but most time of our common life I would think that she "just exaggerates" and "leaves some details out", trying to NOT give that any importance.

When we had aupairs and other helpers, she would make sure that I do not talk to them and they would not stay for too long. And I did not care.

When I met her, I was in a relation and she pretened to be wanting to live with me and my partner at that time...
... fortunately, I could re-establish my contact to my former partner and receive huge amounts of information about how my wife, in 2002, lied to us and manipulated me and her to split up.
My former partner and my actual one have contact and can, as well, exchange stories about my wife and her behavior... so we all try to work through our history and understand what happened why.

That is why I always wrote that concerning my person, I have no problems that my wife took herself a lover (2nd time in our marriage, she did this already once in 2007 and illegally took our children (two at that time) from me to her native country. Whoever likes to get more information about me: you can send me a PM, lot of information is in the internet about me... but I do not think it is important for the thread, here.)

My only problem is, how to achieve mutal, reliable agreements, impossible as long as there is no admittance of the condition, so how to "make her understand" her condition.

As far as I see there is no such way without total desaster.

Recently a german journalist was caught to have invented articles (even one city in the USA wants to sue him for a mean report he made) and he, in a statement, admitted to be mentally ill and will now look for therapy.
It is a desaster for the German magazine SPIEGEL, because he wrote his stories exactly the way their mindset and worldview were supported. So they did not check the facts and just believed him, he had even received a prize for his reports...

It was a collegue who finally proved him a liar and he lost his job and most likely will face jail. Maybe not, as he confessed to be mentally ill, maybe that is the only way: if the person faces jail and lost everything, then s/he might rather admit his/her condition and get a therapy than jailtime.

That puts me into the quandary: I would perfer my wife would never face jail and lose all, for the sake of the children... but if that is the only way and she will continue her path, I can imagine very well that that is what will happen some day.

Best wishes
David
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Default Dec 23, 2018 at 11:15 AM
  #30
Stories are getting more tangled up. Do your kids know that both you and you are wife had sex with their nanny while she lived with you all? Couldn’t you find someone else, not kids nanny? I am a bit confused why she didn’t get paid or never had days off. Why? Seems like unfair treatment.

And you could file for divorce without her consent. You don’t need her to agree.you both living with other people do what’s the point in remaining married.
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Default Dec 23, 2018 at 12:40 PM
  #31
Hi Divine1966

She was living with us as a friend, just from the beginning, the children liked her (and still like her) very much from the first day - and unlike to all before - I took about 1-2 hours every evening, when the children slept, to talk with her and not let the stories of my wife create trouble.

When we decided to become partners, that means her staying as part of the family "without the idea of leaving", for the children nothing changed but they were happy that she would stay with us.

And it took many more months until sex came into the game, but I do not think the small children noticed or cared; my wife told my daughter that her first partner has been a girl.

We have been living as three adults and four children, and with my father living unter the same address, and some months later the father of our partner joined and started to become care-person for my father, who needs care because of his physical condition.

Usually, people perceived us a "happy big family" and some would not know that our partner was more than a friend or nanny.

The problem was that thanks to her, the stories of my wife more and more came into my awareness as manipulative lies and I stopped believing her, hearing what she told to our partner, and started to check the information she spread.

So my wife, loosing her main "Believer" (me) looked for one of our workers, who was single, no kids, naive and caring enough and when I noticed his coming closer to my wife, and talked with him, he was already under her control and would not react to me. He said he would not interfere with my family, but did exactly this and told me it's not his opinion that we spilt up. It was months later that I understood that he simply believes every word and thus had to interfere to "save" my wife and our children from the evil.

Now, there are no workers and the company is bankrupt, no invoices made for sales, other invoices unpaid, my wife and her lover simply did act as if there were no laws and regulations. Reality does not count...

The point of getting divorced is that it's not just "divorce" but decision about child-custody and money as well.
Besides, naturally, my wife told her lawyer that I have fortunes somewhere and so she wants money (that I do NOT have).

On the other hand we have a common company and she created a mess in that and I want the court to make me NOT be responsible for her actions in and all the problems she created in the company.

One can be divorced within weeks, here, if both agree, but when there is a heap of problems with unclear cause, things go slow. So, I had the hope I could find ways how to help her to admit.
That would make things go faster.

Her lover simply believes her and creates lot of trouble as well, calling police, accusing before court, so that creates so much files and papers as well, instead of trying to find a pragmatic way for fast divorce, he blocks any development where my partner and I could spend time with my children.

He thinks the children must be only with my wife because she tells him that they are suffering when with me.
He can hold back my son crying that he wants to go to me, lock him up so he cannot go to me, and feel as the saviour who defends my son!

And no one can convince him of the nonsense of such thoughts and problems of such actions.
He does not talk with me or anyone I know. Any message I send him, as polite and friendly it may be, he leaves unreplied and most likely not even dares to read and instead passes to my wife to read it for him and explain to him what I wanted to say...

Best wishes
David

Last edited by DavidJanS; Dec 23, 2018 at 01:16 PM..
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Default Dec 23, 2018 at 01:24 PM
  #32
Now I'm confused about how this new partner to your wife prevents you from seeing your own kids. That doesn't seem legal.
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Default Dec 23, 2018 at 01:40 PM
  #33
Hi healingme4me

Well, I thought I had posted about my son's birthday.

The other way is to try to make the court believe that I am "dangereous", mentioning that I have weapons and threaten his life so to support a decision in favor for the mother's request that she gets the full custody.

It is not "legal" to jump inbetween me and a police man who wanted to take my phone to talk to my lawyer.

I "divorced" (I was not married to the mother of my first children, still we were living as partners for some years) once already and the new partner of the mother of my first two children was friendly and tried to solve problems, just as my - at that time - new partner would not pour oil into the fire but was pragmatic and helpful.
I expected my wife's lover to be like this as well and it took me some time to understand that he believes everything she says and acts upon her words; legal or not is not what he cares about.

Best wishes
David

PS: The mother tells my children that her lover does those things "by his own decision and without asking her", trying to create the impression that she has nothing to do with that and he is perceiving me that way because he has some (unknown, but surely truthful) reason to do so.

Last edited by DavidJanS; Dec 23, 2018 at 02:44 PM..
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Default Dec 23, 2018 at 08:00 PM
  #34
I don’t understand how this man can say when and how you are allowed to see your kids. He has no legal rights whatsoever. Like none.
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Default Dec 23, 2018 at 11:15 PM
  #35
I very well could have missed the birthday party post. :\

So the guy who prevented you from seeing your son is the partner of the first mother of children and not the second mother of children and current wife?

And the lying disorder/mythomania is the first or second mother of children/wife/"wife"? I'm trying to get up to speed here in my own busyness of my own life...
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Default Dec 24, 2018 at 04:56 AM
  #36
Hi!

First mother and first two children: all "normal". No severe problems (until my wife arrived in my life, then I lost contact for many years and just recently re-built it again). Children are 25&23 years old, no one can prevent them from anything, as they are adult and can do what they like to.

Second mother and four children: mythomaniac. Problematic life, always trouble, no friends, everyone became "enemy" sooner or later, but I held the family together no matter what she said and did.

Last year, new lover came to "rescue my wife and my four children" before me, because of what she told him. This man, who told me he would help me with making my wife understand what is reality and what imagination, now jumps in between the policeman and me to prevent me from speaking to the police. He did not manage to hinder that, naturally, but he tried!

He called the police when my youngest daughter took my partner by the hand and led her to the place where they lived together and played together for years, pretending that my partner was "intruding on HIS LOVE's place".

When my son should spend 3 hours with me on his birthday, he locked him up to "save him before his evil dad".
I informed the court but nothing happend for months, here.

It would make it easer to use NAMES, but I do not want to use names. My wife, the mythomaniac, she posts even excerpts of diaries she found, on facebook, every name and personal info together with her lies about what that person did or thought. But I try to keep names out so there is some more confusion.

I expected the lover of the mythmaniac-mother to try to balance and be pragmatic, but he is like a mad man, as he believes her. That is why I hinted to that I had divorce-experience already and simply thought it could become more easy and clear just like the last time, when we split up.

My wife is the only "real" wife I have and had, as I was never married before, I just lived in a "partnership similar to a marriage" before. My wife proposed the divorce and agreed to divorce fast but then blocked everything.

Many times she agreed to something, just to be believed she WOULD do something. But agreements have not "binding character" for her, as she does not feel guilt or responsibility for not keeping to her agreements.

So, easy: I'm waiting for the court and was thinking about whether there might be a way to make her understand and admit her condition, start a therapy and stop the confrontation. So I checked this forums, wrote in 3 threads and finally resumed in this thread, that there is no way but waiting for the courts, how ever long it might take.

I think, it will take some more months, maybe a few years, but finally the situation will clear up. For me, I can wait, no problem. For the sake of the children I thought that there might be a way to give her the strenght to admit and thus take the confusing pressure from my children, but found there is no way but waiting and informing court and hoping that one day they will decide.

Best wishes
David
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Default Dec 24, 2018 at 05:01 AM
  #37
Hi divine1966

He simply held back my son, when he wanted to go to me. When the police came, my wife came at the same time and she would not let my son go, the police told me all I can do is denunciate that at the police post for the court, so I did that.

He cannot not prevent my children to come to me for their "daddy-week", he would like to, so he accused me of threatening him and is trying to show how evil I am towards him; the argument: such an evil man should not be with his children.

Fact is: I never ever did anything to him, I was friendly and tried to make him aware of the situation. By that I found that he is believing all of my wife's words.
Then I remembered that even though I THOUGHT to not be believe everything, through all the years, I believed MANY if not MOST of her lies and simply did not care to check and understand what mythomania really means...

Best wishes
David
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Default Dec 24, 2018 at 05:31 AM
  #38
Even if children appear to be ok and as you said might not even know what’s going on, they are true victims of this mess. I really don’t understand why are you ever even talking to this “lover” guy? Why is he of any importance? Or is/was he also in relationship with you and new partner or your wife too?

I am bowing out. Good luck with all this. Kids will need ton of therapy. Poor kids
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Default Dec 24, 2018 at 06:08 AM
  #39
Hi Divine1966

Hm, maybe I am not able to write in a way things are clear.

The lover-guy started a secret relation with my wife (14 months ago), started to believe her all of her stories, and became a paranoid agressive obstacle for any kind of solution. Then my wife moved us out and him in (8 months ago) and thus it is not a secret relation anymore.

So she deceided to divorce and get the custody for herself.
Now my wife blockes the divorce, and makes her lover to stage problems and create mess.

I assume that all children of metally severely insane parents do need therapies, always, as the condition leaves traces.

Best wishes,
David
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Default Jan 25, 2019 at 09:08 AM
  #40
Hi all

A quick update: I won a court trial as the lover accused me to have him attacked. He could not proove his version and I never did such a thing. The second time he lost trying to accuse me in the narrative of the lies of my wife.

During the trial I could clearly see that he is lying and aware that he is lying for being loved by my wife.

The situation of my children became worse, they have no ogligatory health insurance but neither school nor family-judge care. It is not legal to attend school without being health insured but there seems to be no one I could turn to.
I try to get a social worker engage in my children's problems, but that is just as hard to achieve as any support from insitutions.
The police does not care that she is driving my car without obligatory traffic-insurance, the judge could not care less.
Quite frustrating... the only thing I can do, as it seems to me now, is to wait upon reality will strike so hard that the judge will be forced to make the necessary decisions.

Best wishes
David

Last edited by DavidJanS; Jan 25, 2019 at 12:09 PM..
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