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Default Jul 28, 2019 at 11:27 PM
  #1
I know that Navane (thiothixene) is an old neuroleptic, but after seven years of Seroquel I've had so many negative effects with almost no helpful ones. Years ago Navane was helpful for me, so I've suggested to my pdoc that we at least give it a try.

I even remember taking a small dose of Haldol many years ago and finding it helpful.

Seroquel, Abilify, Risperdal, Geodon...I've had problems with all of them.

I'm wondering if anyone else here has input about any of the older antipsychotics? How do they compare to the newer ones for you?

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Default Jul 29, 2019 at 12:11 AM
  #2
I have Bipolar, I tried Haldol years ago and it was very helpful but I needed cogentin and Inderal to counteract the side effects so I think I took it at most 3 months. I can’t wrap my head around needing to take additional meds to allow me to tolerate another.

I say if it helped in the past no reason not to give it another try.

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Default Jul 29, 2019 at 07:53 AM
  #3
My pdoc mentioned possibly needing Cogentin. That's the only thing that bothers me about taking Navane, because I feel the way you do. Although I am taking medication for high blood pressure brought on by Seroquel weight gain. Aaaaah...the psych med conundrums. It does seem that research could come up with healthier alternatives.

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Default Jul 29, 2019 at 09:24 AM
  #4
I remember Haldol was pretty awesome when I took it before. It's similar to risperidone. Risperidone is supposedly "Haldol on steroids". The thing with Haldol is that it can cause a lot of extrapyramidal side effects like tremor and things like that. Have you tried olanzapine? It is known for causing weight gain. I take olanzapine and have gained a little weight. Olanzapine helps me a lot. I don't see any problem in trying the older antipsychotics. Olanzapine and risperidone are fairly well studied and are pretty effective. My doctor once said that olanzapine is superior to risperidone. I don't know if that's true for everyone. It's true for me.
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Default Jul 29, 2019 at 01:08 PM
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Thank you skibum. I'm very concerned about the newer antip's because of weight gain. I have gained 100lb. on Seroquel and have a number of physical problems as a result.

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Default Aug 06, 2019 at 12:33 PM
  #6
hi. i dont know anything about navane. trilafon (perphenazine) is a mid-potency older tranquilizer. its in the same family (phenothiazines) as Thorazine. there was a massive study comparing some of the 'atypicals' to each other and also to perphenazine, and...

olanzapine came out on top, overall...but the weight gain and such...wow. the perphenazine did -almost- as well, and I think it was neck and neck with the atypicals, with less weight gain and far fewer metabolic probs. the only thing with the old drugs is to be very careful about working with your doctor to carefully calibrate your dosage. too low...why bother? too high...muscle stiffness, akathisia, and drug induced cognitive problems.

i cannot tolerate any haldol, so im kinda biased. its...still kinda popular, but the tardive dyskinesia, long term, is crazy, even at relatively low doses. Haldol is a high potency older drug. 2mgs/Haldol=100mgs/Thorazine. Other high potency older drugs that I think are a little less toxic would include Stelazine and Prolixin.

i was going to try loxapine. its an old one that my psychiatric nurse practitioner said had (has?) a reputation for being easier to tolerate than some of the old drugs. thing is...the pharmacy couldn't get it, lol. so, there goes that idea.

an old tricyclic antidepressant, amoxapine, partly breaks down into...loxapine. a psychiatrist told me she's used amoxapine for psychotic depression with good results. that's about all I know.
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Default Aug 08, 2019 at 01:31 PM
  #7
Thank you still_crazy. Your post has plenty of helpful and interesting information in it.

Calibrating the dose - yes, that's so important.

Aaah, I get so frustrated with the meds dance. I know we all do. I've been taking a very low dose of Navane for a couple of weeks now and initially it was helping me to be stable and clear-minded. Now, I'm not sure it's doing much except causing me to feel so sleepy and rather checked-out. Thought I'd want to increase the dose, but now I'm not feeling that way, I don't think.

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Default Aug 08, 2019 at 07:15 PM
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Well, pdoc wants to try upping the Navane, so I'll go with it. Been having too many tumbling thoughts, music, sounds, voices (inside my mind) - plus so little actual sleep. In short, manic stuff...then of course, the depression will come and I swear I can't go through another autumn in a depression or mixed state. So I'll give more Navane a try.

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Default Aug 08, 2019 at 08:03 PM
  #9
sorry about all this. just...do be careful, please. one reason i've stuck with the 'atypicals' is because TD is more common in the moody set, and it also tends to be more severe. yes, its me; Bummer Bob, and my side kick, Debbie Downer. Anyway...

i take antioxidants to help (maybe? hopefully?) prevent TD. the key players seem to be good ole vitamin C and natural form E, both (For me, personally) at high doses. just thought I'd throw that out there, because...whoa, most psychiatrists I've seen are slack, especially with TD, AIMS testing, etc.
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Default Aug 08, 2019 at 08:07 PM
  #10
yeah, the thing i hate about the few old neuroleptics ive briefly tried is how they just destroy my concentration and make me feel somewhat depressed, asap. its like...mild depression in a pill. awesome.
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Default Aug 08, 2019 at 10:26 PM
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by still_crazy View Post
sorry about all this. just...do be careful, please. one reason i've stuck with the 'atypicals' is because TD is more common in the moody set, and it also tends to be more severe. yes, its me; Bummer Bob, and my side kick, Debbie Downer. Anyway...

i take antioxidants to help (maybe? hopefully?) prevent TD. the key players seem to be good ole vitamin C and natural form E, both (For me, personally) at high doses. just thought I'd throw that out there, because...whoa, most psychiatrists I've seen are slack, especially with TD, AIMS testing, etc.
You're not a downer! I so appreciate your experience. The depression-in-a-pill scares me a lot. I know just what you mean, too. I will be right on top of that with the Navane.

And the TD...that's what my pdoc was concerned about. She kept encouraging me to stay on Seroquel, but it wasn't helping me & the weight gain was scary. I still can't get my blood pressure down to a healthy level.


Anyway, I flatly refused any more of the "weight gainers." So she reluctantly agreed to Navane. I'll start 7mg./day tomorrow, so still a low dose. I'm hoping for a quieter mind...less mania but also no depression. Ah, such a fun ride....

I want to get serious about some supplements. I've done the multivitamin thing on and off, but would like to be more in-depth.


Thank you, still_crazy

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Default Aug 10, 2019 at 09:10 PM
  #12
Okay, so forget that. Just slept for 16 hours with nightmares and bizarre awakenings here and there. Feeling depressed and just...no way. The Navane is not happening.

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Default Aug 10, 2019 at 11:28 PM
  #13
"I feel your pain." LOL. I'm not actually being a smart ***....

i've only been hospitalized 2x. the 2nd time was 'well-regarded,' blah blah blah...

i was 23. day 1, after heavy, involuntary shock, i was given a B-52: benadryl, 5mgs HALDOL (Hell-dol), and 2 mgs Ativan out of a fresh blister pack.

I paced the ward and the shrinks just shrugged it off. my parents visited, and i looked at my dad and said 'will you please kill me?' and then...

i was switched to melt in your mouth risperidone.
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Default Aug 10, 2019 at 11:34 PM
  #14
have you tried abilify or the new me-too abilfies? they score high on akathisia, but abilify has basically become my life partner. i had a touch of drug induced depression/dysphoria...like looking at the world through a windshield, basically...

but that resolved with ramping up the vitamins and reducing the dose a bit. just a thought. TD, etc. still occur, of course, although the "experts" at the clinic I go to swear up and down Abillify is a miracle drug in terms of adverse effects and being able to...get on with life, no dysphoria, TD, stiff gait, etc. true story.

i seriously wish you well, btw. just a side note...one thing i hate about 'consumers'/'clients' talking to each other, anywhere, is that we're supposed to do it in psychobabble language, DSM-speak, basically.

truth? all human beings suffer. some of us...need pills and help to get thru life. it happens. i dont get 'diagnosis,' the whole point of periodic confinement in faux 'hospitals,' etc., but...

i needs mah tranq, y'all. it is what it is... :-)
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Default Aug 11, 2019 at 10:55 AM
  #15
Thank you so much for your continuing support and suggestions, still_crazy. Here it is, Sunday morning. I just slept (with a few short awakenings here and there) for 36 hours and I can't wait to lie down again. Something has gone haywire because of the Navane. I'm grateful because I didn't take the suggested Benadryl; I might have entered the Big Sleep.

I did try Abilify a few years ago, but I was in a much less "acute" place. I don't even remember what the outcome was. It is entirely possible that I stopped it because I had been referred to a creep of a pdoc - guy was arrested for dispensing illegal meds and whatever else. Icky situation, for sure.

I'm so glad you've mentioned Abilify! Will definitely suggest is as a possible to my pdoc on Tuesday.

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Default Aug 11, 2019 at 12:01 PM
  #16
hi (again). glad I can help a lil bit. I'm not pushing Abilify (or...rexulti, vraylar, etc.) on you, its just...my --personal-- experience has been that Abilify "gets the job done" without having the chemical lobotomy feel. what's actually happening to my brain, even as i type this...no clue. LOL.

i hear ya on shady shrinks. none of mine have gotten in that kinda trouble, but a friend of mine...his (male) doctor lost his license and high tailed it for another state after allegations that he was dating patients, exposing his front stuff to young dudes, handing out Mother's Little Helper's like candy...blah. happens, it seems.
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Default Aug 11, 2019 at 02:08 PM
  #17
I really appreciate your suggestions. It seems probable that Abilify or one of the others will work out.

Yeah...that pdoc I saw some years back. Ew. What a creeeep. The tip-off for me was when he had a fairly lengthy conversation, with me sitting there...he was speaking with a patient (he had the speaker phone on !!!!!). The patient, obviously a very fragile young woman, was trying to get out of having dinner with him. He was insisting that they 'keep their plans' - even though she repeatedly said that she was his patient, etc.

I was not only shocked, but I was badly shaken up. I made sure the guy gave me refills, then got the hell out of there. I found another pdoc and told her what had happened. She took his name and information and I assume she reported him.

Next thing I knew that "doctor" had been arrested for pill-dealing (he was writing scripts for anything people asked for...really sad). I never asked my pdoc anymore about the whole mess. Not much longer after all that I found the outstanding pdoc I have now.

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