[sunrise]

Today I called up my daughter's therapist and wanted to speak to her about some really bad stresses at home right now that are affecting my daughter, who is 13 years old. I wanted to give her a heads up that my daughter may be going through some hard times now and in the near future too. My husband also wanted me to mention some behavioral issues to her, which I wasn't too keen on, but thought I would scope out the potential for what to share in this regard with the therapist in the context of the main conversation.

So I call the therapist and first off, she reminds me that she has a confidentiality agreement with my daughter. I had not forgotten that. I wasn't going to ask her for any information on what passes between them during their sessions. I had hoped to share information with her rather than the other way around. She continued that she felt she couldn't talk to me without my daughter's permission (unless it was about self-harm) as then it would be like there was this secret thing going on behind my daughter's back and that would impede the development of their relationship and be a breach of trust. She said if I talked to her without my daughter's permission, she would be unable to acknowledge her knowledge of what we discussed when she was in session with my daughter. (So I felt like, why bother then?) She knows I am in therapy myself, and she asked how I would feel if someone called my T to talk about me without my knowing it? My daughter and her T have only had 10 sessions and the T says their bond is very fragile and delicate right now and needs to be nurtured.

So, at the T's suggestion and as a way out of this dilemma, I have agreed to mention to my daughter that I would like to talk with her T, and then the T and my daughter would explore that in their next session. If all went well, I would then be able to talk with the T. However, the T said I had to tell my daughter what it was I wanted to discuss with her. And that is impossible. The whole point is that this impending thing is looming for my daughter and she doesn't know yet, and she will be made aware of it at the right time, which my own therapist says is not yet. Meanwhile, it's a hard time in the family and it's affecting my daughter. So we agreed that I would tell my daughter I wanted to speak to her therapist but be kind of vague about exactly what.

This is all seeming so complicated!!! I know the therapeutic relationship is a special one, but I'm just feeling like wow, I really want to do the best for my daughter and take care of her, but all these restrictions are making it hard for me. I think if I wasn't in a therapeutic relationship myself, I would have little patience for this. But I am, so I kind of get it, but another part of me, the momma grizzly bear part (don't get between me and my cubs!), just wants to be free to tell the T the problems without jumping through all these hoops first.

Any other parents out there who had their kids in therapy? Did you ever run into anything like this when you tried to talk to the T?

[MissCharlotte]

(((Sunrise)))

Yes, having a child in therapy is soooo difficult. When my son was 16, he was in therapy and I rarely spoke to his T. I went to great lengths in choosing the T, even so far as switchnig T's for him several times but once they formed a bond my husband and I backed off....Now he is in therapy again, but he is now a young adult.

However, because of his illness, and the fact that he lives at home, there are times I need to get information to his T. So, what I do is call her and leave messages on her answering machine. I don't speak with her personally and don't ask her to call me back. She doesn't feel the need to tell him because she is not talking to me. I think this works for us and so far, no repercussions from son. When he has a pdoc appt., the pdoc calls me into the session during the last 10 mins or so....here everything is in the open. Again, though, that is due to his illness and the need for transparency.

Good luck, Sunny, this is a challening situation.

[Perna]

Sunrise, it sounds extremely difficult and frustrating for you but I can sort of see your daughter's T's points. I had my life arranged and talked about behind my back as a child/teen (in the 1950's and 60's) and think I still resent it :-) I don't think you can "prepare" a person, even a child, for something or even soften the "blow" necessarily because it's another person and one can't know how that person is going to take whatever or react to it even if one knows the person well. Your daughter's thoughts, feelings, actions, etc. are autonomous just like ours are.

The therapist isn't there as a go-between between you/your husband and daughter; you have to talk to your daughter yourself and tell/try to help her with whatever family problem is coming up. The therapist can only work with her in the "present" which means after whatever happens, then they will discuss it (like after you were to talk to her and discuss wanting to talk to her T, then they would talk about that). One-on-one/individual therapy means exactly that, no matter what the age of the client. The therapist is there for your daughter, not to help your husband with behavioral issues he has with his daughter or to try and make you feel a bit more comfortable that your daughter will be "all right" when you have to give her difficult news to deal with in the future.

Think what you'd like for yourself in your individual therapy and that's what any "good" therapist is going to have with your daughter in hers. I can only imagine but it must feel very uncomfortable, complicated, and "foreign" compared to the normal parent/child way of relating!

[withit]

Sunrise, I can relate to the momma bear and her cubs, lol...

Like sister said, it sounds like a good idea to leave messages...I do that too....my son is 14 and when he was younger his t shared 'therapy stuff' with me but as he got older she began sharing less.

I don't get the part where you can't tell t about what's going on for your daughter on the home front....though I def. get the part where a child's t would not be able to share with child's parents about what goes on in session and what the child talks about....the only thing I could think of is that your daughter's t would feel she is betraying your daughter by getting info from you behind your daughter's back....

So I'm back to the idea of leaving her a phone message. In the message you could say you understand the two of you should not be talking without your daughter's consent and you respect that; however, you felt she should be apprised of things, therefore you are leaving this message....

When my son was in therapy at age 16 his T did the same thing. But he talked to my son and my son agreed and it was okay.

I understand the T's ethics too but you have to communicate for your kids sometimes, it seems. Then again... we do understand the process...

It's just so hard. We just don't like to see our kids suffer.



ECHOES

[lauren_helene]

This is a tough one. As a parent myself, I'd be very upset. It is such a fine line because lets say you and your husband both start calling the therapist with stuff for her to watch out for.

That might impede her ability to help your daughter in her therapy. I don't really like the confidentiality thing when we are talking about a minor though but I understand the point as your therapist sees it.

Under what circumstances is her therapist obligated to tell you anything about your daughter's sessions?? she is 13...

I can feel the love you have for your daughter. I feel the exact same way about my son.

[sunrise]

Thanks so much for all your comments. I can definitely see my T's point. And I have never pried into what goes on in therapy between the 2 of them, and would never consider that. I place very high value on the confidentiality of therapy. I have never called my daughter's T before. I'm just not the meddling sort. (almedafan, I think by law, once they are 12 years old, the minors are entitled to doctor-patient confidentiality.) What makes it confusing for me is she told me at the outset of therapy that she wanted me to inform her when this big event was coming down, but now she potentially doesn't want to hear it? And meanwhile, my own T is saying, "have you told your daughter's T about this yet?" My goal is to do what is best for my daughter. Anyway, I am going to trust my daughter's T to know how to proceed as she is the expert and has no doubt gone through this many times. I asked her for solutions to the dilemma, and she did not mention the leaving messages on the phone idea. (From what she said, she would not be able to use this information anyway, unless I had specific permission from my daughter to leave a phone message.) Instead, she wants me to talk to my daughter first about the idea of my contacting her, so I am going to follow her advice and try that. I will keep my fingers crossed that her suggestion goes well.

All of your posts have helped make me become more aware of an underlying subtext in my call to my daughter's T. It has to do with my husband, and that he pressured me to do this to bring up a certain issue with her T about her, which actually I realize now I had no intention of talking about with her T. I consider it inappropriate. (But at least I would have been able to say to my husband, "I called daughter's T" or so my rationalization goes.) Instead, I have a different, more important issue I would like to share with her T. But meanwhile, my husband is bugging me and says his lawyer says I need to contact the T and say X. And I don't want to. I want to say Y, which is important to say and that the T told me, at the outset of therapy, to tell her about. AAAACKKK! I am a communications disaster, as you can tell. Should I just tell my husband "you call the T if you want to say X"? Or should I say "it's inappropriate to say X to the T, as you and your lawyer want, but if possible, I will try to communicate Y to her?" Sometimes I just feel so messed up. I really am trying to do the right thing.

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Under what circumstances is her therapist obligated to tell you anything about your daughter's sessions?? she is 13...

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I think if it involved self harm or she was suicidal.

[MissCharlotte]

Sunrise

Sounds like you are trusting the process for both your daughter and for you.....such an enormous leap of faith, isn't it? Good for you.

If my husband said his lawyer thought X I would respond by saying, what do you think? The lawyer isn't the parent.

However, in the interest of co-parenting and putting your daughter first, I would tell hubby what the T said about speaking with daughter first. And then I would try to negotiate some kind of compromise with him so that your daughter's therapy can remain intact. This sounds like a good topic for the next couples session. It will probably set the groundwork for how you will co-parent from here on in, eh?

Good luck and be good to yourelf during this difficult time. We are here for you, so keep posting!

Love and Hugs.

[Cheri]

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sunrise said:
But meanwhile, my husband is bugging me and says his lawyer says I need to contact the T and say X. And I don't want to. I want to say Y, which is important to say and that the T told me, at the outset of therapy, to tell her about. AAAACKKK! I am a communications disaster, as you can tell. Should I just tell my husband "you call the T if you want to say X"? Or should I say "it's inappropriate to say X to the T, as you and your lawyer want, but if possible, I will try to communicate Y to her?" Sometimes I just feel so messed up. I really am trying to do the right thing.

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I would be severely ticked with my husband and his lawyer, frankly. Is there any reason you have to answer to your husband or do what he prefers? If your instincts as a mother tell you to do or say "Y," imo, your best bet is to go with that. No apologies, no explanations. It's your choice, and he can do his own dirty work.

Sorry if that sounds harsh and if I'm butting in where I don't belong, but my husband used to try to dictate to me, too, and it's a real hot button.

[selfy]

arent restrictions an arse???
i know that they are to protect things, but i wish ppl could look at the individual scenarios instead of having one point blank rule it would take more time but it would help make things more free
grrrr
take care ppl
self

[lauren_helene]

what about faxing her T progress reports from home? This way, you and she aren't discussing anything perse but she is aware of major events.

This bothers me, she is 13. I'm upset for you not at you by the way...

[Peanuts]

My son is 12 and meets with a pediatric pychologist every three weeks or so and I always have direct access to speak with the therapst !!! I don't know if this is the difference in age or not but I share info about stressors going on at home or at school with the therapst that are impacting my son.

And without my son's permission. The therapst offers advise and suggestions for my son's I.E.P., any school plans, as well as suggestions for handling specific behavior issues at home.

All of this is done with my son's best interest in mind and nothing is devious or sneaking behind his back. He is 12 years old !!

I do not ask what transpires between the therapst and my son, the therapst will let me know if anything is up that I should be aware of. Usually, at the end of the session, the therapst comes out with my son and the two of them together will share something about what they worked on with me - but not all the time.

I call the therapst, send email, send faxes etc all the time and my son isn't informed nor is his permission sought.

Again - I'm not sure if the difference is that your child is 13 and mine is 12 ... but I just can't imagine. I would feel handcuffed if I wasn't able to communicate openly with any of my son's therapst.

I also don't think your own relationship with your therapst is the exact same as your daughter's in that she is a minor and you are an adult. I don't think it would be helpful or fair for you to get the exact details of the entire conversation - which you already said that you didn't want to interfer with anyway.

All you want to do is provide necessary information. I would think that your daughter's therapst could hear you out and then perhaps help you out with the best approach to help your daughter. I'm with you about the grizzly momma bear feelings - you just want to take care of your child. Which is why you are sending her to therapy - because you love her and want to help her.

I know of another parent whose child works with a therapst and from what I can gather, that parent also speaks with the therapst without gaining the child's permission. I have not heard of this situation for a child. ?? I don't know what advise to give but wish you the best with figuring this out.

[SecretGarden]

I tend to really follow what Cheri has to say. She has brought up the ideas that come up to me. Particularly that your husband, her father, is telling YOU what YOU should say to the T. Perhaps you may feel that you might handle things better than him so you would rather say things? Otherwise, I say he can make his own contact as they are the things that he is concerned about...particullarly if you would do it differently.

I do not know what to say about the communication modality and I hope that your daughter will allow you to talk if even setting up certain parimeters. I wonder if the T initially asked you to share information as at the juncture she did not know your daughter. In time, there is bound to be trust built up so that the walls go up a bit. Might your daughter be aware of more than you realise? She may even be discussing her own options or the possibilities in therapy right now.

I am glad that you are speaking I believe of communicating with the therapist more on your side than on her side. I do believe that if you and the T communicate much that the trust between the T and your daughter might be compromised. She needs to know that she can say WHATEVER she wishes to to the therapist and know it stays in that room. I believe that you understand that. Yes?

[sunrise]

Thanks for all your responses. I'm going through a lot right now on several fronts, and this additional question of whether I can contact my daughter's therapist or not is just too much for me right now. I know I need to do what is best for my daughter, but I don't have the ability to figure this out right now. So I'm going to do nothing until I am better able to cope. I know it's a cop-out and I feel like a failure on this, but I am overwhelmed right now. I need to get some stuff off of my plate. Sigh. So I called my daughter's therapist and left a message saying that at this time I had decided not to talk with my daughter to ask her permission for me to contact her. And I would let her know in the future if I did decide to do that.

P.S. to all who mentioned my husband's role in this: I hear ya. ((((hugs))))

[Direction]

I haven't had a chance to read all the responses...I am concerned though about the T that sees your daughter.

My oldest sees a T every week and the middle one every other week - I am actively involved in their sessions. What has happen during the week, behaviour, accomplishments, things I think we should be working on, etc.

Sometimes I go in first, sometimes the boys go in first. It is very interactive. We don't have any formal rules - the goal is to get everyone on the right track...

If you are looking for this type of therapy, I think a different therapist would be the way to go...asking about your role to in the sessions.

I think the therapist is doing the right thing. I would be livid if my parent could have spoken with my T at that age. Their trust is fragile at that age, and if you were allowed to talk with the T the child could shut down, feeling like they are being gained up on, instead of being 'teamed' with the T on their side.

If you want a say, talk to your child about possibly going into family therapy. It could be with the same, or a different T. But it sounds like her T thinks it's very important that they stay one-on-one with eachother and not invade that.

[SecretGarden]

Sunrise... You are doing alright. Really... your plate is way full emotionally, etc.. and I know that it must all be overwhelming. Hang in there. It will happen when it is time. You are good to take care of yourself and know that your daughter is being taken care of in T and of course by you. I get the feeling that you are an excellent mom.

[Direction]

Stormyangels has a very valid point - my oldest is 2 years younger than your daughter. So I may just be hitting the right time?

I hope I haven't left you more confused...You are doing great.

[Cheri]

I don't see how it's a cop-out to postpone dealing with the situation until you feel less overwhelmed and can give reasonable thought to how you want to handle it. No one in your family would benefit from you having a meltdown now--least of all your daughter.

Hang in there, and please try to give yourself a break from the guilt. It souds like you made a wise decision.

[lauren_helene]

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sunrise said:
So I'm going to do nothing until I am better able to cope. I know it's a cop-out and I feel like a failure on this, but I am overwhelmed right now. I need to get some stuff off of my plate.

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You are not a failure so try not to feel like one. There is a lot on your plate right now. Take it easy on yourself...