In Session Today: Part V

Aw, thanks (and to DP, too!) you aren’t the first to suggest writing a book. I even brought it up to T once, and he seemed really enthusiastic about the idea. I even got a book on writing memoirs, but have yet to read it.

LT is that Mary Karr's book you bought?

Oh, apparently it is! (Just looked.) Have you read it? Any good?

I'm very proud of you LT for sharing the love stuff !!!

It's wonderful to see you grow and I look forward to your updates .

T gave me $55 today to help me pay my copayfor my invega.because I ran out and have been off it for a few days. I felt awkward abt it. I said I will pay u back. I didn't ask him for money I would never do that.i was surprised when he handed it to me

I think maybe t still cares abt me. I.hope

My PDOC helped me with a copay once. I was surprised but was very grateful. It's nice that your T helped you.

Yes I was so relieved cuz I would be without meds for 2 weeks

Saw T today, would say T2 but now he's my only T besides our MC. Told him that I terminated with Emdr therapist, and he told me that he got 2 calls from him. He said the 1st one was asking to talk, and the 2nd one was saying how he just saw me and no longer needed to talk. 💁 Told him I think thw session went well with Emdr on how I handled it and didn't feel like I burned any bridges. He say he's glad to hear that and asked if I had any thoughts about seeing him only. I told him, "I'm all yours, have fun because I'm pretty messed up." He didn't seem to think so and we talked about that a little. Didn't tell him how I've been feeling numb since Thursday and we got talking about other things. He asked how I think it'll feel coning 3 times a week and I told him I'm not sure I'll have anything to talk about at the end of the week and it might be awkward the first few times because I've never seen a therapist so many times in one week. Also talked about my H asking me for sex all day today after he told our MC yesterday that he's okay with not having sex and will wait for me to be ready. I told him what I told my H that I didn't want to numb myself out like 2 weeks ago to have sex. T asked if I would do that again and I said probably because I don't want to mentally deal with it if I give in. He seemed concerned about that and then I stopped talking about it. Talked a bit more about other random things about my past and then ended it there.

Mary has written 3 memoirs. I would say read at your own risk because she did not have the best childhood and is a recovering addict. My husband has read all three and liked them all. Excellent writer.

Lighter session today – main topics being work and boundaries. R reassured me that I do not have to give full detail if I choose to explain to my colleagues. We talked about how I consider this my fault, something I brought on myself. R asked about many things and later wondered whether she asked too many questions. I was able to say that I found them useful, especially when I’m in that place

This is really really long so I apologize in advance. Trigger warning for SH references scattered throughout.

He moved to a different office in the same building and I glanced around a bit before picking where in the room to sit on the floor against the wall so that I wouldn't be behind a chair or in the far corner, but there would still be some reasonable distance between us. He half teasingly asked if I was ever going to go back to sitting in the chair. I told him that it made me feel better and that he'd get more out of me this way than if I sat in the chair.

We started with political discussion. He'd made a comment on Friday that concerned me, so I wanted to make sure we were on the same page when it comes to fundamental values. We were.

I told him about remembering that a lot of the times I was defiant with my father wasn't to just to antagonize him as I'd feared. It was a matter of principle. I wasn't going to be bullied into submission. No one else stood up to him, but I would rather be punished and/or screamed at than placate him and apologize for something I didn't do. T thinks that means I care about myself on some level and tried to get me to think of being cruel to myself in the same way. But it's different.

I brought up that I couldn't stand to watch the 2016 debates because a certain politician was reminiscent enough of my father that it I had an irrational reaction of feeling like I was 10 and in a room with my father again and feeling unsafe. That there was a lot of similarity there with the authoritarian attitude and absolute refusal to admit to being wrong and the bullying and everything, even some of the mannerisms. But that with my father there was more yelling and physical intimidation and being trapped in a room with him and unable to escape.
T said it was understandable that I had a visceral reaction. I think this gave him a better idea about what my father was like. Not that he doubted me before, just that this helped him understand what I meant.

I then gave him the note/letter I'd written. That's been my thing lately to start a conversation about something I can't bring up.
The note started with "what I needed you to say on Friday was "you're not alone in this. When something comes up that's a trigger you can come in here and we can discuss it instead of you hurting yourself." Self harm is how I deal with the things I feel like I can't or shouldn't talk about."
A minute or so into reading he kind of sighed in like a sad way and said that he would want me to come in and talk about it. I didn't really say much.
The note continued to say that it's things like transference and the larger issue it represents. That I didn't want to need to talk about it but I do. And that, no, it wasn't romantic/erotic transference and that that would almost be easier because at least that's a normal adult want/need, and that it would just be a case of it being misdirected, but that it's something that can be fulfilled in other relationships in a healthy way. That what I want would not be healthy for me to get fulfilled in a healthy way as an adult.
He paused at what I assume was that point in the note to ask whether the want/need that I was referring to that I felt would be unhealthy to get fulfilled was being cared about. I had my head turned completely away from him buried in my elbow the entire time but I nodded.

The note continued to explain that, to state the obvious, it was something I didn't get as a kid. But I never stopped wanting it. That I had to hide my distress from almost everyone and that no one I told who was supposed to be looking out for me took my distress seriously or believed me. That I had to hide my SH and SI and later my ED so that my parents wouldn't be informed. And I longed for an adult to realize what was going on and see me as the hurting kid that I was and want to protect me and take care of me. Not a "partner" in an equal way as a peer, but someone I saw as "a real adult" who "had their **** together" who I didn't need to protect. But that didn't happen. And now I'm an adult, not a hurt child, and that's not how healthy adult relationships work.
I wrote that I was acutely aware of the fact that even the most understanding person would find this weird and creepy. And that most would be horrified.
He asked whether I was concerned that he would feel that way, and told me that he didn't think it was wrong to have those wants/needs, it was how I felt. Then he continued reading.

I wrote about how wanting these things made me feel bad and wrong and weak and pathetic and shameful. That I hated that I felt this way. That I was disgusted with myself. That SH was my way of dealing with these things by myself without making it anyone else's problem. That I had to learn to live with the fact that I wanted something I couldn't have and shouldn't want and this was the only way I knew how.
I wrote that that was part of the reason I needed strict boundaries, because I can't allow myself to have what I want. That it wouldn't be healthy. That I already knew I couldn't get this fulfilled from anyone else and that no one could "save" or "fix" me and that he didn't need to tell me that. That being told that would feel like rejection and only make me feel more ashamed.
That I couldn't allow myself to have it because I wanted it too much. That most people can drink in moderation, but that alcoholics wanted alcohol too much and no amount would ever be enough and so they can't allow themselves to have any (I have a year of sobriety tomorrow, and he knows I have about a year, though I haven mentioned the specific date). And that that's the reason I can't allow myself to have any, because I'll always want more.

He said it wasn't the same thing. That alcoholics are using alcohol as a substitute for coping in healthier ways. I said that I use being cared about as a substitute for trying to learn how to care about myself.
He asked whether there was a correlation between the intensity of my desire to seek that from others and my negative beliefs/feelings about myself. I said yes. He said that this doesn't mean I can't allow myself to be cared about at all. He'd kind of already made his point with that question.
I explained that the more I wanted to be cared about the more I wanted to hurt myself. That I hated myself for it. That when I let myself be cared about I had to punish myself. He kind of sighed again in a way that sounded sad. And I got some kind of satisfaction from that, and I hate myself for it.

I said I still didn't care about myself. We talked about me feeling like other people's feelings and pain matter, but mine doesn't as long as I can keep myself from making it anyone else's problem. He pointed out that that was unfair, and I said I wasn't there because I was great at being rational and having emotions consistent with my intellectual beliefs. He said that I was there so at least part of me believed that I mattered or wanted to do this for myself. I told him that I didn't get help until it started affecting my work and other people, that being super anemic interfered with my work and I was missing work because of the ER and psych holds. He kind of sighed and said it felt like we were playing tug of war.

He asked me if I could look at him at some point during this time but I don't remember exactly which part. I glanced up at him, but it was too much and I hid my head again. And every time he "validated my feelings" or acknowledged how cruel I am to myself and that that must be really painful or said something compassionate or understanding I kind of involuntarily flinched and curled up tighter defensively and in shame. So I'm sure he noticed that and that was part of it.

He made a rare personal disclosure. He said that he had had to learn a really hard lesson early on and he was in supervision and his supervisor told him that you can't care about someone else's health more than they care about themselves. Hearing that he'd struggled with that made me feel a bit better.
Sometimes I worry that the boundaries and the fact that he doesn't act upset about my pain aren't just because it's important for me but that it's really easy for him to not care and it doesn't bother him at all and that it's presumptuous of me to even think that he might be affected at all.
Even though he's told me before that it would upset him if I gave up, and that one of the hardest things is watching someone you care about give up and not take care of themselves but that you also have to accept that it's their choice and you can't control them.
Knowing that he struggled with caring too much at one point made me feel better, that maybe it's not just super easy for him to not give a **** about me.

That conversation was why I threw away my razor blades when I left and I got rid of all my suturing stuff when I got home. I want to try to care about myself and I want to want to get better.

And there's still part of me that's doing it so that I can "earn" him caring about me and wants him to be glad and proud when I tell him, not just in a professional doing his job way, but because he cares.
And I don't know if I'll tell him that.

I needed to share this. About T showing she cares about me.

I have self-esteem issues, and they make me think that I'm not worthy of love and being cared for.

Anyway. I was telling T today how Sunday had been rough - I was home alone - and how depressed I felt for that, because it was day one of a few to come.

Then she said that Sundays do have this 'melancholic' feel, and that she feels it as well and that she thought of me being alone on Sunday

That made me feel really cared for. I mean, I used to think that, as long as I'm out her door after the session, she forgets about me until the next week. It was really good to hear that she'd been thinking of me and what I would be going through.

That's really good.

T Tuesday. I was really nervous since I'd just admitted to having "some platonic love feelings" for him last session. T retrieved me, saying "hello" quietly as I walked by. I replied, "Hi." He said, in reference to my dress, "You're looking very floral today!" Went back and sat down.

T: "The only thing I have on my agenda is to let you know my availability the rest of this week" (while he's away). Me: "My intention is not to contact you." T: "Well, that's your choice then. Because I will be checking email a couple times a day, responding at least once a day. I'd also be available for a short phone call in a crisis." Me: "Hopefully I won't have a crisis...but of course you never know what will happen I guess..."

He asked what I wanted to talk about. Me: "I"m feeling kind of anxious." T: "About my going away?" Me: "Well, not really that specifically, but more from what I shared on Friday." T: "OK." Me: "And I think a lot of that isn't just so much about you, but about ex-MC and how he reacted when I shared those feelings. Not the most recent time, but the first time. Like back in 2015. Have I told you about that?" T: "Just proceed as if you haven't told me. I'll stop you if you have."

Me: "OK. I've been going back and reading old posts on Psych Central, plus some emails. That's how I know the time period." I went on to first share how I'd told ex-MC about the transference. In there, I mentioned how when I first admitted to it (while scheduling an individual session in person), he was like, "Yaaay! Someone's attracted to me!" Then he said how we had to work on my taste in men. And that he didn't think I liked short guys (H is over 6 feet tall).

I shared briefly what our first individual session had been about, then how I'd asked for second one, but at first he said no, then agreed after I left him weepy voicemail. And how that session had been fairly intimate, with him sharing stuff about his father and other personal things. How at the end, he'd said, "My door is always open to you," which to me suggested he meant for individual sessions.

So flash forward a few months. T: "So, still 2015?" Me: "Yeah." I said how I kept having this feeling like I wanted reassurance from ex-MC. And I'd asked him for a phone call. He gave me one, we talked for a half hour about my feelings connected to him and fears about that,then at the end, I was like, "So if I love you, is that OK?" Ex-MC: "That's OK! Though you have awful taste!" So, it felt like all was fine, I told T. But then in (joint) session that Monday, ex-MC was all weird, like putting all this praise on H, then asking me at end how session had made me feel, asking if it made me feel vulnerable (or something like that).

I told T how that had upset me, and I'd emailed ex-MC asking for a phone call or individual session. Me: "He eventually called, and we had this...awful conversation. Like he was just really harsh to me. I tried asking for another individual session, and he just kept saying no, and asked how I'd feel if he said I could never have another one. And when I talked about it being painful, he said how maybe I just had to deal with the pain and get through it." T: "Wow, that's quite a difference from the other call." Me: "Yeah. He also compared it to a romantic breakup of his, which didn't help. I was curled up on the floor, sobbing, during the call." T: "Aw." Me: "And it felt especially painful because I'd just shared the love feelings and felt really vulnerable."

I said how I'd left him voicemail saying that he'd "made me feel like s***." And that I was so upset, H even called him to say "What did you say to my wife?" T: "Wow, how did you feel that H did that?" Me: "It made me feel good that he cared enough." T: "Did ex-MC talk to him?" Me: "They talked on the phone briefly, but he said he couldn't tell him anything due to confidentiality." T: "Hm. Did you end up working things out?" Me: "It took a few sessions. At first, when I asked about how he'd said his door was always open, ex-MC just said, 'My feelings evolved.' Which, what the hell was that? And it made me wonder, well, what else would his feelings just change about? How could I trust him? After a few sessions,he finally admitted that he'd realized he'd made a mistake right after he'd offered me that. Which, I guess was good he at least admitted he'd made a mistake. But why couldn't he have said that right at first? He tends to overapologize about things, but then he wouldn't apologize about this, which really hurt me?"

What's weird is, I was talking about these things that would normally make me really emotional. But I barely cried, like only used one tissue. I told T that I also felt rather unemotional when reading emails, like maybe I'd become more detached from the situation? He said it could be.

I said the next time I shared the I love you feelings with ex-MC was about a year later. T: "So you just didn't bring it up at all in that time?" Me: "No. I think I was afraid to." I mentioned how then I ultimately shared it in an email. And he took a couple days to write back, then was just like, "That's kind of you. And I'm glad you realize it's platonic." Which upset me. Because "That's kind of you" is like if I'd given him a compliment, not sharing my feelings. It's like when I told ex-T that the first time, and she said, "That's sweet." I said to T: "I'm not trying to be nice, I'm sharing feelings. I'm glad you didn't say something like that. I don't recall exactly what you said, but it felt OK." T: "Well, then I probably just stumbled into it." Me: "You still did OK."

T: "So what *is* the right way for a someone to respond to that, if they're unable to reciprocate for whatever reason?" Me: "Wait, am I setting the precedent for future clients? Well, for me, I'm worried about it being OK, so I'd want them to say 'It's OK' or 'I'm fine with that.' I'd also be good with 'I'm glad you were able to tell me that', and it's OK' or 'I'm glad you felt comfortable enough to share.' But really mainly that it's OK. I've said 'It's OK' an awful lot of times, haven't I?" T: "But it sounds like that's your main concern, so it makes sense."

T said how sharing those emotions is "like being in the innermost circle of the relationship. The center of the onion." Me: "I guess so, I hadn't thought of it that way. Maybe that's why it makes me cry, because cutting onions makes me cry."

I said I shared all that stuff about ex-MC because I wanted him to understand more about why I was so worried about sharing it with him. He seemed to get it. He said he wanted to comment on something. "You mentioned a couple occasions that ex-MC used humor when you were talking about something serious. What do you think that's about?" Me: "Well, when I was first admitting to the transference, he said he was joking to make me feel like it was OK." T: "Hm, OK, because I wondered if maybe it was the opposite." Me: "What do you mean? To make himself feel OK?" T: "Yes, many people use humor as a defense mechanism." I raised my hand. T: "They may use it when they're feeling uncomfortable." Me: "Hm...so maybe ex-MC felt uncomfortable about my expressions of love from the start? Rather than being OK with it then changing his mind?" T: "It could be. It's just speculation on my part of course." Me: "Hmmmm. It's a different way for me to look at it." T: "Again, I don't know for sure."

He mentioned that if clients, especially couples, keep joking about something, he'll ask them to say what they're feeling behind the joke. We talked a bit about H and I using humor when things are uncomfortable. I gave an example and said how maybe we need to discuss that more in the future. Something came up about how H often seemed to not be reacting in marriage counseling sessions, while I was often sitting there crying. T said that ability to let emotions out can be a good predictor of success in therapy. Me: "So it's a good thing that I cry a lot in here then?" T smiled: "Maybe!"

He said that, "not to be stereotypical," but guys are taught to hold them in. How maybe H was sitting there not seeming to react, but there was a lot going on inside, like his mind was racing, trying to figure out what to say, his heart rate was up. Me: "So I should have just grabbed his Fitbit to check his heartrate?" T: "Maybe!"

We were almost out of time. I said again how I felt nervous about what I'd shared with him Friday and maybe I should have talked about it more today. T: "I suspect it will be an ongoing conversation." Me: "Yeah. I mean, I might want to discuss it a bit more Monday." T: "If you didn't, then I might wonder if you were just avoiding it. I might ask you about it."

Me: "I'm just concerned it could affect our relationship." T: "There are really only two reasons I can think of where it would cause a problem. The first would be if we ended up only talking about the relationship to the exclusion of outside things." Me: "Yeah, OK." T: "The other would be, if you were acting provocatively in session, trying to be seductive." Me: "But...I told you it's platonic. I haven't done anything like that in here, right?" T: "No, not at all." Me (looking directly into his eyes): "And as I said, it's platonic, so I wouldn't be doing something like that anyway." T: "I know. I was just giving an example of what would cause a problem."

I looked at the clock--we were at an hour. Me: "I guess we have to stop." T: "Yep, I have to throw you out now!" Confirmed schedule, and I went over to pay.


Me: "I guess I just keep worrying you'll think about this more and change your mind. I mean, not that I think that you probably think of me much outside of here, but...." T: "Wow, you're really trying to get inside my head, aren't you?" Me: "Well, I guess I'm just concerned that you'll be away for a few days and give it more thought and not feel OK with it." T: "Well, if that happened, I would tell you." Me: "OK. Or that you'll be acting differently toward me because of it. I guess if you were, I could ask you about it." T: "I'd want you to ask me." Me: "OK." Shook hands, as T said, "Have a good week!" Me: "Have a good...trip!" T: "Thanks. Take care." Me: "You too."

Saw T for our 2nd session this week. Started off by telling him that my anxiety has been through the roof all day long, so I've been keeping myself busy with cleaning all morning and yesterday. He asked me if I have any idea what might be causing the spike in anxiety, and I told him about a dream that I had Monday night about my H SA me in my sleep amd about my son's family therapy yesterday that I had to deal with myself with 4 kids. Somehow I mentioned my cousin and how I talk to her almost every day on the phone and how close we are. That sparked him asking about if we were close when I was younger and disucssing some things about my childhood. Finished the session asking me if I had any more thoughts about how I'll feel coming 3x a week. I told him that I'm hoping it'll be good because I won't have to rehash my week to another T but that it's also another change I have to get used to. So we'll see how it on Friday morning when I see him again.

T asked me how my week was. After a minute of silence, he said "just say whatever is important, what's happening in the moment". I thought about my answer some more, then I said it hurts that he thinks I'm mad at him. He said that's an assumption. I replied that no, he said last week that he thinks I'm angry if I don't look at him. He said that's one possible explanation, but that we had discussed that for me it's fear of my feelings, the fact that I might like him. I nodded. He asked what else he had said when we had talked about that. I replied that it would be okay if I liked him. And that we could talk about it. He asked what else? I was quiet for a bit, then I said that I might be scared because he has to remain neutral. He agreed with that. He said liking your therapist can be good but it can also destroy a lot.

I cried a lot. I said when I like someone, it hurts when they leave. So I'd rather not like them at all. He said he didn't think that was a good solution. That he's there and won't leave just like that. I told him that it's not forever. He asked what I meant and I replied he'd leave at the latest when he retires. He said that's not for some more years and that I was thinking too far ahead. There's no need to be scared right now.

At some point he again asked why I hurt so much. I said if I like somebody it hurts. People are mean and at some point they hurt you and leave. He replied it makes sense to him that if you like somebody it also hurts. That love doesn't just mean liking someone. Sometimes you're angry or disappointed. It's only all good while you're in love, but that goes away after a bit.

I told him that when we only saw once a week, I'd always miss him and think of him. Now much less so. He agreed that seeing each other twice a week seemed necessary and told me how he had only realized that after a while. I told him how I'm scared that I could go back to those feelings now and he said that would probably happen at some point. That it's part of therapy, that there's ups and downs. I asked whether I could still tell him if that happens and he said of course! I said I was asking because of how he said liking your therapist can be bad earlier. He replied that constantly thinking about your therapist is not beneficial. But you can't just turn off your feelings and not have them. We can always talk about what's currently happening and how I'm feeling. But it's also important to keep in mind what your goals are. For me that's managing to tolerate my feelings and soothing myself. So we have to keep that in mind. But he's there to help me with that so I can manage. But he also added liking your T can be good because it means you trust them, plus he said something about it being good for the T too, because trust is mutual.

At some point he also went on about how you can even like friends to some degree. I was a bit confused by this since I think that obviously you can like friends. But T said it's somehow different from liking somebody in a romantic kind of way, or even from liking your parents.

I don't remember a whole lot, I dissociated most of the time and cried. T talked to me a lot, but I think I've forgotten most of it... We ended earlier than usual given that I didn't talk for more than 4 or 5 sentences.

So I started the session with "so there's something I want to talk about, and there's a first part and a second part, and I know you're going to want to talk about the first part, but I want to get to the second part and then later we can talk about the first part" and he said okay.
And so I told him

I told him that I'd been really angry at myself about this. And then I was angry at him. Probably at least in part because in the mental war between the two opposing sides, he represents the pro-"LabRat not hurting herself" side. And there was a lot of fear and doubt about what will happen if this doesn't work.
I told him that I'd written an "unsent anger letter"/journaled about it. He seemed pleased to hear that.
I told him there were a million levels of catch 22s regarding whether or not to share it, that it was an angry letter and I wasn't sure how well he could compartmentalize, but if he doesn't have superhuman powers of compartmentalization and detachment then it would probably not be a pleasant thing to hear. That I had reservations about sharing it because I wanted to protect him from that instead of trusting him to be responsible for handling his own emotions. But also that, while I wasn't actually feeling the anger at that moment, at the time I'd written it and considered whether or not to share it that I had wanted it to hurt him. And that cruelty was not okay.
I explained that if he said yes to me sharing it I'd feel guilty. I knew he'd feel a professional obligation to make the judgement call he thought was in my best interests, so it wouldn't really be fair to put him in that position. And that if he responded by being hurt then I'd feel guilty and would worry about sharing things in the future. If he wasn't hurt then I'd tell myself he didn't care.
If he said no to reading it then I'd feel like I was being told that I wasn't allowed to be angry or that my feelings don't matter.

At some point towards the beginning of this when I told him I was angry he asked me if I could look at him while we had this conversation. It was different than the way he's asked before. It's usually been when I'm talking about something I'm really ashamed of and it's a kind of coaxing (?) thing, trying to bring me out of my shame a bit. I don't remember exactly how he phrased it this time, but it was more along the lines of him thinking it was important for me to look at him during this conversation and wanting me to try, and actually making it a request. Like he wanted me to actually express my anger. During the entire thing I looked at him like 5% of the time, which is more than usual.

He wanted me to communicate about my anger and stuff and wanted to know. And to tell him when I was angry at him. And I was like "well I just did," but he meant the specifics. Like the letter. And he said "how about you be responsible for your own emotions and feelings, and I'll be responsible for mine" and when I asked what he meant it was basically that I was sharing/owning my feelings and he was responsible for handling his own.

So I did hand it over. He started reading it out loud, which he's never done before with the things I've had him read. I kind of cringed and said I'd really rather not have to hear it again (because I was feeling guilty... I had been angry and these were cruel words and this is very unlike me). He said he'd rather hear me read it, and I shook my head and he continued reading it.
It included things like:
"if a patient gets better you get to congratulate yourself on a job well done and take it as evidence to support the stupid naïve world view that with enough hard work and determination anyone can get better. And if a patient doesn't get better, you get to tell yourself that they just weren't trying hard enough or that they didn't really want it enough."
"and if you have to actually see them get worse you get to terminate whenever you ****ing want to so that you don't have to see it and then you get to tell yourself it was for their own good. Because your intentions were good and that makes everything okay. And then you get to move on and forget about it because you told yourself you were doing the right thing."

He kind of half humorously noted that those words sounded familiar. He'd reassured me over and over that, while he understood his mistake, his intentions were good and that he had thought he was doing the right thing for me. Which I know is true logically, and if I didn't believe that I wouldn't be working with him.

"I bet you wish you hadn't seen me again so you wouldn't have to know how much [you terminating in that way] ****ing hurt. You still don't even know the details. You're welcome for that, by the way. And that's assuming that you actually care."
He asked what I meant about the not knowing all the details part. He we'd talked about it and he had a general idea

The letter went on about how yes it was my choice but if he'd actually cared enough to really think about it, what did he really expect to happen? And that "if I can't do this (I'm sorry, I mean if I don't want this enough or I'm just too weak)" he gets to do the same thing again with a clear conscience.

"Isn't it convenient that you don't have to care about someone if they're not getting better, because clearly they don't care about themselves? I wish my job worked like that, but I don't get to just ignore data if they contradict the thing I want to believe and only care about the data that give me the results I want. And then tell myself I'm a great scientist because my intentions were good and therefore the only reason an experiment didn't give me the results I wanted is because there must have been something wrong with the thing I was using. It just wasn't good enough."

There was a off topic conversation at this point when he said that actually was a kind of research bias and I spent like 30 seconds trying to remember the specific term for that kind of research bias. It sounds trivial, but it was nice to have that kind of break from the things in the letter and it was just the two of us talking as people who both have training in research.

"You're not the one who has to care about what happens if I really do try and it still doesn't work out and then I have to deal with how much I'll ****ing hate myself for allowing myself to try. The idea of how much I'd have to punish myself for this scares me."
"But at least acknowledge that there really is a risk for me.
If a tree falls in a forest but you don't have to be there to hear it, it still matters to the ****ing tree."

He thanked me for sharing that with him, and he sounded genuine.
He said he really does believe I can do this, etc. And that there are people who aren't at a place where they're ready or able to make the choices like this, but that he believes I am.

I told him that it still feels like the wrong thing. That the belief that it is morally wrong for me to want/need other people is not something I can just decide not to believe any more than I could be convinced to not believe that "hurting other people is wrong."
He said I could use his judgment for that when it feels wrong, like think about what he would say. And I pointed out that that would require trusting that his judgement was correct, and the letter made it pretty clear that I was not convinced of that.

We talked about motivation. He asked what had changed that made me throw out my stuff. I told him that I didn't care about myself, but I wanted to care about myself and I know that I'm not just going to wake up one day and magically care about myself, that it will take work and changes in behavior to lead to the changes in thoughts and feelings.
He was glad about all of this. I told him teasingly not to get too smug. He emphasized that he didn't take credit for my choices and that this was me doing the work and acknowledged that he can only imagine how difficult and painful this is and he's not the one going through it.

He said I'd made some assumptions in the letter about how much he does or doesn't care that weren't correct. And basically said he did care.

It's been more than a day now so I'm probably missing pieces of dialogue. But in general the last part was positive and there was a bit of joking/teasing and I left feeling relieved and more committed/motivated. Which is really annoying. I kinda wanted to sulk for a bit. How the hell did it go from me walking in with a letter of cruel and hurtful angry things to ending all positive and motivating?

Oh, and at some point when he was admitting he cared he said something kind of half teasingly about how about how I've been "growing on him" and he thinks he's been "growing on me too." And I know he meant "I've come to care about you," but my brain also helpfully misinterprets that as "I hated you at first but I've learned to tolerate you somewhat."
And ugh, now I have to decide whether to ask for reassurance on that one on Monday.

T this morning. When I got to the waiting room, he was in there, rearranging the tea selection. When he saw me, he smiled and said, "You caught me!" And I knew then that things were OK with him. I was worried he'd be mad at me for texting him last night for non-scheduling reasons (I was having a rough night). After 2 minutes, he gestured toward the door. Me: "Is that you saying I should go back?" T: "Yes."

He was wearing all black (aside from the red roses on his socks), and I was wearing a black shirt with distressed jeans (as in, a couple intentional holes). He commented on my jeans, as I figured he would, saying, "Are things so bad you have holes in your jeans?" Me: "Actually, yes! Plus it's hot out, so ventilation." T: "Ah, so functional, then!" Me: "Yep."

We sat down. I apologized for texting him the night before. T: "It's OK." Me: "To be completely honest...part of why I texted you is that I was trying to avoid contacting ex-MC. And I managed that." T: "That's good. So it sounds like you're improving your coping mechanisms then." Me: "I guess, but I also crossed your boundaries in doing it." T: "That's OK."

T: "Are you feeling better this morning?" Me: "Yes." T: "What do you think led to that?" Me: "Well, sleep probably helped. But also I had sex with H last night, for the first time in I think a few months. And the reason I know that is kind of TMI..." T: "A few months? Is that common? And why is that TMI?" Me: "That's not the TMI part. That's...we'd only planned to have one kid. So shortly after D was born, H had a vasectomy, because it was covered by my insurance, which I was going to lose by becoming a contractor." T: "I forget, one of you initially didn't want kids, right?" Me: "Yes, that was me. He always did. And a couple months before the wedding, I confirmed with him that he was OK not having them. Then I guess when I was...33? I was suddenly just like, 'I think I do want a kid!'" T: "That is pretty sudden! So what was the TMI thing again?" Me: "Oh, that was when, uh, that time of the month was late recently, but I wasn't concerned about being pregnant because, I mean, yeah, H had a vasectomy, but those can reverse themselves, but because we hadn't had sex in a couple months. So would have had to be immaculate conception." Brief discussion of vasectomies.

T mentioned the importance of physical intimacy in a marriage. Me: "Are you talking about actual sex or just touch in general?" T: "Both really." Me: "Hm...because there's really no physical touch with H. Like, we'll sit on opposite ends of the couch." T: "Do you think there's significance to that?" Me: "Maybe...because I mentioned a while ago how I was concerned that if, say, we were snuggling on the couch, he'd assume that we'd have sex, and then he'd feel rejected if I declined." T: "Have you talked about that?" Me: "A bit in marriage counseling. Ugh...now I'm having a flashback to a really awkward conversation in there..." T: "OK." Me: "Where ex-MC and H were talking about what blue balls felt like and...ugh. Sorry. Anyway..."

T said how touch in general can be important in a relationship. And asked if I'd talked about it recently with H. Me: "No. I guess I should. And the thing is, because of all that, he never initiates sex. I know because he doesn't want to put pressure on me, but... It's always on me. Which makes me feel...kind of undesirable." T: "That would be something to talk about with him." Me: "Yeah...I guess I should." T: "It would be good to let him know that you're not happy with your sex life either." Me: "Yeah..."

Me: "And I've made an effort. Like...I don't know if I've told you about this. But...uh...I got this subscription box, Fantasy Box, where it gives you a whole fantasy to act out, the props, and a script." T: "Did you talk to H about it first?" Me: "No...and that's perhaps where things went wrong. It was, uh, a Catholic schoolgirl thing. Which...maybe it was also a bad idea because H went to Catholic school. And I just tried to talk about it more generally in marriage counseling, but then H went into all this detail and...then I thought, 'great, now ex-MC is picturing me dressed as a Catholic schoolgirl...'" (Of course, then I started thinking T may have been picturing me that way, too....at least I didn't mention the lollipop part that H talked about in ex-MC session...)

T: "That seems like something from a sitcom. You're a writer, you should write a sitcom about therapy. What do they need for a season, like 30 episodes? You could do that." Me: "Yeah, maybe I should. Or do the memoir, then the sitcom based on the memoir." T: "You like Seinfeld, right? It could be like that." Me: "Yeah. So wait, now am I going to owe you royalties for this?" T: "No, no royalties. But you could do part in a therapy session, then maybe put Psych Central in there in some way." Me: "Yeah."

I ended up talking about how H would say we don't have any hobbies in common, but we both do fantasy football, so I feel like that should count. Me: "I know this probably sounds bad, but...I mean, I bet a lot of guys would wish their wife was as into football as I am. But with H...it often seems like he thinks it's an annoyance. Like I'll send him updates on Sundays as he's out with D, and he'll be like, 'I'm busy right now!'" T: "Hm, seems like he has trouble handling multiple things at once. How is he when you talk to him about stuff generally? Like stuff you have in common?" Me: "Well, I mean, he'll talk about his work to me. Or his hobby with homebrewing, like issues he's having right now with the kegerator." T kinda laughed. Me: "Do you know what a kegerator is?" T: "No, but it's a funny word." Me: "Yeah, it is." I gave brief description of kegerator (basically, a system where you have taps at home for beer).

T suggested I talk to H about what I thought we had in common. I said I wondered if H wanted me to be more interested in [the sport he follows most and referees some youth games for. Like did I need to push myself to be more interested in that? T said I should just ask him about it.

T asked if I talked about stuff going on with me with him, like what I talked about in therapy. I said I did, but at one point, like 6 months ago, he said all I talk about is therapy. Which isn't at all true. Like I don't have many work stories since I work from home. But I talk about lots of different things, and on one date night shortly after that, I even listed all the things we'd talked about, to show it wasn't all therapy or even anywhere close. I said that's part of my talking about football with him, that I would think it would be something he'd want to talk about, but it just seems to irritate him. And I'm not sure what's OK to talk about. So T suggested we discuss with H what topics would be good to talk about. (incidentally, I think T would have made a really good marriage counselor for me and H...)

At some point in there, I was looking outside and said, "Sorry, I'm watching a bird. I'm listening though!" T: "Oh, I thought you were looking at the clock." Me: "Nope, bird."

I mentioned the fights with H over the past week. I said how one was where he yelled at me because I tried to talk to him while D was talking to him. Me: "Is that like an ADHD thing maybe, where that's an issue for him?" T: "It could be partly. It can often be difficult for someone with ADHD to handle two inputs happening at once." Me: "OK." T: "But it also sounds like he has issues with controlling his emotional reaction to things. So it may be both." Me: "OK...because with ex-MC...he would tend to say that H yelling was normal, that I was overreacting and needed to accept it." T: "I think that H is having trouble controlling his emotions." Me: "Yeah...I think part of the issue with our marriage counseling is, it seemed like I was the one with all the issues, who had to make all the adjustments. Where I felt like...it should have been both of us trying to make changes. But ex-MC seemed to think everything was fine with H. Which...it was hard because, if I'd talk to ex-MC outside of session, like on email or the phone, he seemed to really support me. But in session, it was H that was fine and me with the problems..." I forget what T said to that--I know it seemed supportive.

Somewhere in there, I mentioned how, though it seems cliche, I wished H would get me flowers, like when I finished my master's, times like that. But he said at one point how he didn't know what I was allergic to. Me: "I mean, I guess I'm allergic to roses, but there are a lot of other flowers out there." T: "You're allergic to roses!?!" Me: "Yeah...but I'd manage. But if I asked him to buy me flowers and then he did, it wouldn't have the same meaning." T: "Why not?" Me: "Hm...I don't know." T: "It's like you ask for something once, then see if the other person does it. If you have to keep asking, then it might lose its meaning." Me: "Yeah..."

We ended up on some tangent, and he said, "I just want to let you know we have 5 minutes left, so if you want to switch to another topic, we can." We ended up talking for another 10 minutes about more stuff with H. I noticed the time before T did and pulled out my phone to schedule. Confirmed Thursday time, scheduled for next week.

I went over to pay. T: "So I have more thoughts on the sitcom. There should probably be three elements. So it can be your personal life, then you in therapy session, and then something with Psych Central." Me: "Yes, that would work. Are you going to expect royalties?" T: "No." We shook hands in the midst of that, a very warm handshake. Me, heading out: "I can at least thank you in the credits." T: "No need to do that." Me: "OK, but I should." T: "Take care." Me: "You too."

lab rat, this post reached my heart, taught me something, and also I am so impressed with how hard you are working in therapy . I had a huge struggle this week bc of an event in my town ( too much of a trigger to describe here), and I have been feeing like letting go of therapy. Your post kind of reminded me how human it is , and reminded me to try.