Home Menu

Menu



advertisement
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Display Modes
SheHulk07
Magnate
 
SheHulk07's Avatar
 
Member Since Oct 2013
Location: CO
Posts: 2,305
10
871 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Oct 08, 2018 at 09:55 PM
  #201
Saw T today, and as soon as we Sat down he wished me a happy belated birthday and asked me how it was. We talked about that and how Friday night was with the show I went to, how my H has been super jealous about it and all that. I told him I had a horrible headache and that I wasn't hungover but I think it's because I didn't take my meds for 3 days. He got curious about that so we discussed that a little more about how I had the med and wish I wasn't even on it but withdrawal from it sucks. Told him I SH this morning before I had to go see my PCP and he was trying to read into that more. Told him it was just the timing and was more about the fact that I was upset about waking up to my H standing next to my bed in the middle of the night. Started talking about the SH more in depth and He asked if I was uncomfortable with him asking so many questions about it. He asked some generic questions like how are my kids doing and if they have a fall break coming up. At one point during the end I got quiet and he asked me where my mind went. I replied that I had zoned out and started thinking about H but didn't want to say it outloud in fear that I was being a broken record. He told me that some things need to be talked about over and over again, and encouraged me to speak up and say whatever is on my mind even if it doesn't flow with the conversation or any other reason. I just agreed and we ended the session there.

Last edited by SheHulk07; Oct 09, 2018 at 12:28 AM..
SheHulk07 is offline  
 
Hugs from:
LabRat27, LonesomeTonight, lucozader, Siennasays, SlumberKitty, WarmFuzzySocks

advertisement
lucozader
Most Dangerous
 
lucozader's Avatar
 
Member Since Feb 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 2,920
7
7,642 hugs
given
Default Oct 09, 2018 at 06:58 AM
  #202
Quote:
Originally Posted by LabRat27 View Post
If a tree falls in a forest but you don't have to be there to hear it, it still matters to the ****ing tree."
I just want to say that I love this.
lucozader is offline  
 
Thanks for this!
LabRat27, LonesomeTonight
LabRat27
Poohbah
 
LabRat27's Avatar
 
Member Since Mar 2018
Location: CA
Posts: 1,009
6
2,354 hugs
given
Default Oct 09, 2018 at 04:23 PM
  #203
We talked about why I hate myself, don't believe I matter, don't care about myself, etc
I think sometimes he forgets how good I am at intellectually challenging irrational beliefs. The problem is that I don't want to. Knowing intellectually that I'm applying different standards to myself than to everyone else and that I say and believe things about myself that I never would anyone else doesn't make the irrational beliefs feel any less true.
He said he knows I would never talk to anyone else the way I talk to myself. He brought up a previous example I used of an undergrad making a mistake in the lab and some undergrads will beat themselves up so much over it, but others won't take it seriously enough and you have to actually try to get them to take it more seriously.
And he said he knows I'd never tell an undergrad that they were a worthless piece of **** and totally incompetent and should go hurt themselves because they made a mistake.
And I was like, yeah, I know exactly how to challenge that belief when it comes up:
"Everyone makes mistakes; it doesn't mean you're incompetent"
"You're focusing on the one mistake you made and not giving yourself credit for the million things you've done right"
"Beating yourself up doesn't solve anything, the important thing is that you learn from this going forward"
And he was slightly surprised by how easily I rattled those off. I reminded him that I lead CBT based recovery meetings and walk other people through these tools all the time. He knows that, but I don't think he realized how good I am at it (that sounds arrogant but w/e). I told him that I've known how to do this since long before I walked into the first session with him. It's getting myself to let myself do it. Which he kind of knows but I think at some level he's still trying to reason me out of these beliefs.

He wants to understand why, despite being able to acknowledge that my beliefs are illogical intellectually, I can't get myself to believe otherwise. Like why do I continue to believe I'm a bad and weak and pathetic person, why can't I believe that my feelings matter?
What's keeping me from allowing myself to believe these things?
I don't know. Isn't he supposed to be the one to figure out why?
I've been journaling about it, but I can't figure it out. I can come up with hypotheses that sound plausible, and are even partly true, but nothing that I've come up with truly explains it.

He asked what I was telling myself the times I really really wanted to hurt myself but didn't. I didn't really have an answer there either. I told him it was partly on faith, faith that if I do these things and work on this stuff that maybe I'll eventually care about myself and feel better.
LabRat27 is offline  
 
Hugs from:
Anastasia~, CantExplain, LonesomeTonight, lucozader, Siennasays, SlumberKitty, WarmFuzzySocks
 
Thanks for this!
Anonymous45127
junkDNA
Comfy Sedation
 
junkDNA's Avatar
 
Member Since Sep 2012
Location: the woods
Posts: 19,301 (SuperPoster!)
11
8,149 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Oct 10, 2018 at 05:51 AM
  #204
I saw my therapist on Monday. he asked if I want to play a game. I said what game. t said it doesn't matter.. I just know when ur not doing well and hearing voices it's hard for u to talk.

we didn't end up playing a game tho. I showed him some notes I wrote on my phone. he said he thinks all the anger and sui and homi stuff is actually just the voices. which idk aren't they both?

I showed him another note about CSA trauma. we talked about that a bit

t kept bringing up me not taking my medication and offered twice for me to come back to his office so he can help me take them. I don't want to get into why I can't take them on here

I cried and said I don't know because the voices staffed attacking me

t said whatever they're saying it's not true. t said they lie. they lie about every thing

I left upset and drive around for 5-6 hours to listen to the radio and its messages for me.

yesterday I manage to go to t office with my medication. but I heard t tell me you need to leave now

I left n felt upset cause t is mad.. told me to leave. I emailed t saying I am sorry I thought it would be ok.. t wrote back and said he didn't say anything to me when I was there. he said my mind isn't working right.

maybe he did. maybe he didn't. I don't know anymore

__________________
junkDNA is offline  
 
Hugs from:
Anonymous56789, Argonautomobile, captgut, ChickenNoodleSoup, Echos Myron redux, LabRat27, LonesomeTonight, lucozader, NP_Complete, SalingerEsme, unaluna, WarmFuzzySocks
Anonymous56789
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Oct 10, 2018 at 08:17 AM
  #205
JunkDNA-do you think you should go to the hospital?
 
 
Thanks for this!
SalingerEsme
junkDNA
Comfy Sedation
 
junkDNA's Avatar
 
Member Since Sep 2012
Location: the woods
Posts: 19,301 (SuperPoster!)
11
8,149 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Oct 10, 2018 at 08:56 AM
  #206
Quote:
Originally Posted by guileless View Post
JunkDNA-do you think you should go to the hospital?
who are you

__________________
junkDNA is offline  
Anonymous56789
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Oct 10, 2018 at 09:29 AM
  #207
Quote:
Originally Posted by junkDNA View Post
who are you
im just a therapy client, just an average forum member. I'm just a stranger.
 
LabRat27
Poohbah
 
LabRat27's Avatar
 
Member Since Mar 2018
Location: CA
Posts: 1,009
6
2,354 hugs
given
Default Oct 10, 2018 at 10:26 AM
  #208
Quote:
Originally Posted by SalingerEsme View Post
lab rat, this post reached my heart, taught me something, and also I am so impressed with how hard you are working in therapy . I had a huge struggle this week bc of an event in my town ( too much of a trigger to describe here), and I have been feeing like letting go of therapy. Your post kind of reminded me how human it is , and reminded me to try.
I really appreciate this. I often feel like I'm rambling on forever in here about stuff no one else really cares about (but I don't feel like that about anyone else's long posts! I really appreciate that you guys are willing to share and talk about stuff!).
Thank you for saying something. It took me a bit of time to figure out how to respond to this, but it really made my day and I'm really glad it was able to resonate with you. I hope things are better
LabRat27 is offline  
 
Hugs from:
SalingerEsme
 
Thanks for this!
Anonymous45127, LonesomeTonight
Echos Myron redux
Magnate
 
Member Since Apr 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 2,157
6
1,833 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Oct 10, 2018 at 02:32 PM
  #209
It was a really nice session. We talked about the dreams I had about T1. I said I wasn't sure why i dreamt about being ambivalent about making a choice between leaving T for T1 or staying with T, when in real life I don't want to go back to him at all. T said what about what he represents, then I remembered another bit of the dream where I said I give current T a pass for some of the things he has said and done in the past, when if T1 had done them i would be adding them to the list of ***** things he did, so that seems like a double standard. I think it makes sense that it relates to my relationship with current T, and T1 is just symbolic in there.

We went on to talk about some things I'm doing professionally and he said he takes a lot of pleasure in witnessing my professional development. He said he sees like a really complicated version of a transactional analysis model of interaction when he thinks of our relationship. He said it felt there that we were talking therapist to therapist. But the bit of him that takes pleasure in my professional development is a slightly different thing, it's like a different version of therapist to therapist. He said it's the part that thinks I will be a better therapist because of my therapy. He said he takes...takes...a bit of glory in that. I thought glory was a really funny word to choose. I translated that in my head that he's proud of me and he's proud of the work we've done together.

He also named the transference/countertransference which could emerge between us that echoes
Possible trigger:
and we have to be careful about when things can trigger that area. I thought it was really helpful that he named that because it's something that has the potential to kind of creep up on us if we aren't aware of it.

Then I wanted to bring up that (trigger ET)
Possible trigger:


I said that it occurred to me that being in a building adjoining his house for therapy was symbolic of the therapeutic relationship because he lets me in without letting me in
Possible trigger:

He said that made sense. Then he paused and said " why has that come up now? I love it when there are moments where we say something without knowing."

He told me that they are planning some building work and the therapy room will be unusable for a while. One of the options he is looking at is using a room in his house.

I just started laughing. After what I had just compared it to. Literally me:

I said I wasn't sure whether I would want to do that and that I would think about it. Which I still am.

We stood up and he hugged me tight. I said "love you".

We said goodbye and I walked away. I heard him say "oh goodness" behind me (in quite a relaxed way - not like he'd seen a ghost). Don't know what that was about.
Echos Myron redux is offline  
 
Hugs from:
CantExplain, LabRat27, LonesomeTonight, SlumberKitty, unaluna, WarmFuzzySocks
 
Thanks for this!
Anonymous45127, ElectricManatee, LabRat27, LonesomeTonight
CantExplain
Big Poppa
 
CantExplain's Avatar
 
Member Since Oct 2011
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 19,616 (SuperPoster!)
12
19.7k hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Oct 10, 2018 at 10:22 PM
  #210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Echos Myron redux View Post
I said that it occurred to me that being in a building adjoining his house for therapy was symbolic of the therapeutic relationship because he lets me in without letting me in.
Good insight!

__________________
Mr Ambassador, alias Ancient Plax, alias Captain Therapy, alias Big Poppa, alias Secret Spy, etc.

Add that to your tattoo, Baby!
CantExplain is offline  
 
Thanks for this!
Echos Myron redux, SalingerEsme
Anonymous59364
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Oct 10, 2018 at 11:23 PM
  #211
We talked about the process of therapy. I'm not a religious person, but it seems that there is a holiness about it. Two flawed souls trusting each other enough to look at a sacred space and describe what they see.

I'm also learning that if I am truly honest and authentic, then I feel like I make headway. When I just f*** around instead of working hard, then I come away feeling like the s**t I am.

How did I get this old without learning that? Sometimes I imagine how different my life would have been if I had learned at the onset to just trust the process and not f*** around.
 
 
Hugs from:
ChickenNoodleSoup, LabRat27, LonesomeTonight, SalingerEsme, SlumberKitty
 
Thanks for this!
LabRat27, LonesomeTonight, Lrad123, SalingerEsme
Anonymous45127
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Oct 11, 2018 at 07:06 AM
  #212
Quote:
Originally Posted by LabRat27 View Post
We talked about why I hate myself, don't believe I matter, don't care about myself, etc
I think sometimes he forgets how good I am at intellectually challenging irrational beliefs. The problem is that I don't want to. Knowing intellectually that I'm applying different standards to myself than to everyone else and that I say and believe things about myself that I never would anyone else doesn't make the irrational beliefs feel any less true.
He said he knows I would never talk to anyone else the way I talk to myself. He brought up a previous example I used of an undergrad making a mistake in the lab and some undergrads will beat themselves up so much over it, but others won't take it seriously enough and you have to actually try to get them to take it more seriously.
And he said he knows I'd never tell an undergrad that they were a worthless piece of **** and totally incompetent and should go hurt themselves because they made a mistake.
And I was like, yeah, I know exactly how to challenge that belief when it comes up:
"Everyone makes mistakes; it doesn't mean you're incompetent"
"You're focusing on the one mistake you made and not giving yourself credit for the million things you've done right"
"Beating yourself up doesn't solve anything, the important thing is that you learn from this going forward"
And he was slightly surprised by how easily I rattled those off. I reminded him that I lead CBT based recovery meetings and walk other people through these tools all the time. He knows that, but I don't think he realized how good I am at it (that sounds arrogant but w/e). I told him that I've known how to do this since long before I walked into the first session with him. It's getting myself to let myself do it. Which he kind of knows but I think at some level he's still trying to reason me out of these beliefs.

He wants to understand why, despite being able to acknowledge that my beliefs are illogical intellectually, I can't get myself to believe otherwise. Like why do I continue to believe I'm a bad and weak and pathetic person, why can't I believe that my feelings matter?
What's keeping me from allowing myself to believe these things?
I don't know. Isn't he supposed to be the one to figure out why?
I've been journaling about it, but I can't figure it out. I can come up with hypotheses that sound plausible, and are even partly true, but nothing that I've come up with truly explains it.

He asked what I was telling myself the times I really really wanted to hurt myself but didn't. I didn't really have an answer there either. I told him it was partly on faith, faith that if I do these things and work on this stuff that maybe I'll eventually care about myself and feel better.
I have the same issue. For me, I don't believe I deserve compassion, so I'm harsh on myself. T says I've that double standard and I say the unfair standard is "right" because I'm bad, and a freak and disgusting.
 
 
Hugs from:
LabRat27, satsuma
 
Thanks for this!
LabRat27
LostOnTheTrail
Tweaky Dog
 
LostOnTheTrail's Avatar
 
Member Since Aug 2011
Location: England
Posts: 4,791
12
3,117 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Oct 11, 2018 at 07:08 AM
  #213
(The trigger box below hides a brief mention of the effects of physical assault.)


Meandering session today, began by telling R about my first blog post going live with a typo, before admitting that I didn’t know why I had brought that up. R wondered whether I felt like it might not have happened if I hadn’t been so consumed.

‘I remember, was it an infection in your thumb? You wondered how you didn’t notice.’
‘Yes. It’s been a week of lots of feelings without being able to explain them. I don’t feel like I deal with big emotions well…if that makes any sense.’

‘It makes sense – if I don’t understand, I can ask for clarification.’
I mentioned that we had planned to bring the collage back in, and handed it to her with two fingers. She immediately picked up on it.
‘There’s a slight reluctance there. Every time you hand me a collage or something you have written. These are the things you find difficult to verbalise.’
‘I wish I could verbalise them, but I feel as though verbalising them would cross a line, and I am not sure how I would handle that.’

I continued. ‘This collage expresses my feelings around the triggering experience at pottery, but also…’

‘But also around…’

‘Around our break? I can see that is difficult for you to say.’

R mentioned that she had done some work around naming emotions before. I said that I felt frustrated by the wider experience.

‘What do you mean by “the wider experience”?’
‘Even in the language I am using, I am trying to distance myself. The critic tells me it doesn’t matter, but if it didn’t matter, we would not be here.’
‘You ignored my question then. You don’t have to answer, but I asked what you meant by ‘the wider experience.’

‘The…no, that is the wrong word. The betrayal by those people.’

‘That is what you mean when you say “the wider experience”?’

‘Yes, I feel as though I could have prevented it, but I asked them not to send the photos, and they did.’
‘So if you had intervened earlier, do you think it would have made a difference?’

‘No, but the photos don’t matter. It’s January 2011 that matters. I think I could live with the anniversary, but being submerged against my will every night is draining, it’s damaging.’

‘You described before, being on edge, waiting for the next catastrophe.’

‘Bringing the collage back in – fear and emotional pain are not good places to live.’
‘Do you feel a disconnect from your emotions?’

‘I still feel wounded by what happened. With Chris, it was emotional pain…not totally, that sounds terrible.’

‘I didn’t experience it as sounding terrible.’

‘There were periods of…anguish is the word that first comes to mind.’

‘Mmm…’

‘It was coming to an end, coming to an end, coming to an end, and then it was over…or just beginning, I am not sure which.’

‘With the other experience, I had spent two weeks trying to get hold of someone, already knowing that something terrible had happened. It was a constant ‘will she make it, won’t she…’ at times ‘Do I even care?’ But I am a caring human being, and I cannot turn compassion off.’

Possible trigger:

‘What the **** would they expect me to do with that information? They didn’t give a damn about the impact it would have on me.’
‘Is that what hurts the most? Is it less about the actions and more the emotional impact? It could be both.’

‘It’s both. Without the actions, there is no emotional impact. Because it was first thing in the morning, I didn’t have the opportunity to process it. It would have been enough to say ‘It’s over’, without the detail.


'I grieve that I didn't intervene sooner.'
'I grieve that I wasn't in a position to assert my boundaries.'
'I grieve that I relive it every sodding night.'

In future sessions, I hope to explore the detail without my filter.

__________________
'Somewhere up above the great divide
Where the sky is wide, and the clouds are few
A man can see his way clear to the light
Just hold on tight, that's all you gotta do...'

Steve Earle - Fort Worth Blues

'You have all the grace you need for today, and today is all that matters.' - Steve Austin

Last edited by LostOnTheTrail; Oct 11, 2018 at 07:44 AM..
LostOnTheTrail is offline  
 
Hugs from:
CantExplain, ChickenNoodleSoup, LonesomeTonight, lucozader, SlumberKitty
 
Thanks for this!
lucozader
junkDNA
Comfy Sedation
 
junkDNA's Avatar
 
Member Since Sep 2012
Location: the woods
Posts: 19,301 (SuperPoster!)
11
8,149 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Oct 11, 2018 at 07:09 AM
  #214
I'm seeing my therapist again at 10 this morning...

__________________
junkDNA is offline  
 
Hugs from:
Anonymous42961, Argonautomobile, LabRat27, LonesomeTonight, NP_Complete, SlumberKitty, unaluna
 
Thanks for this!
LabRat27
LabRat27
Poohbah
 
LabRat27's Avatar
 
Member Since Mar 2018
Location: CA
Posts: 1,009
6
2,354 hugs
given
Default Oct 11, 2018 at 08:05 AM
  #215
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuietMind View Post
I have the same issue. For me, I don't believe I deserve compassion, so I'm harsh on myself. T says I've that double standard and I say the unfair standard is "right" because I'm bad, and a freak and disgusting.
<3
I get stuck in the circular logic loop. I'm a bad person for wanting compassion, because I have no right to want compassion, because I'm a bad person, as evidenced by the fact that I want compassion even though I don't deserve it.
And anything I do to allow myself to receive compassion or be kind to myself is therefore a moral failure of character, further evidence that I am a bad person. And I have no right to do any of this because my feelings don't matter. Because I'm me.

T kind of lightly teases me about this when we're talking about it with lower emotional intensity and it's clear that I'm aware of the irrationally. The irony of my "day job"/educational training vs the way I reason when it cones to my core beliefs is not lost on either of us.
LabRat27 is offline  
 
Hugs from:
SlumberKitty
 
Thanks for this!
Anonymous45127
junkDNA
Comfy Sedation
 
junkDNA's Avatar
 
Member Since Sep 2012
Location: the woods
Posts: 19,301 (SuperPoster!)
11
8,149 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Oct 11, 2018 at 03:17 PM
  #216
I took my meds with T. I tried to give him money back but he said hold on to it until things r more settled. t got me water and I took the meds. t let me use his headphones so I put them on and listened to music and laid on his couch. he was working on the computer

__________________
junkDNA is offline  
 
Hugs from:
Argonautomobile, ChickenNoodleSoup, Echos Myron redux, LonesomeTonight, SlumberKitty, unaluna
ChickenNoodleSoup
Grand Poohbah
 
Member Since Apr 2017
Location: In a land far far away
Posts: 1,574
7
1,304 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Oct 12, 2018 at 11:30 AM
  #217
First, I wanted to talk about how I felt T didn't get why I'm scared and therefore doesn't get why I don't want to calm down or regulate or whatever he called it. He said that he can't read my mind but that he tries to understand the things I explain, so why do I not want to do these things? I said that I feel that even if I do these things now, it won't change that in the future I'll suffer. He wanted to know whether I meant that I wouldn't get better? I said no... so why do I think that? I asked whether he wants an in depth explanation of climate change.

He said that would be distracting from the real issue. Which is that I seem to set reality and my thoughts and feelings equal. He explained that there are two states (actually more than two, but we'd discuss two for now) that your mind can have. One is something he called 'psychic equivalence'. He said that's what I seem to do when I'm the way I was on Wednesday or in some other sessions. In that state you feel that reality and your feelings are the same. If reality is bad, your feelings are bad. And if reality is good, so are your feelings. They are locked together and change with each other. Then there's also the pretend mode, where your feelings and reality are the complete opposite. Reality is horrible but you feel great. People in that state sometimes don't even notice what's going on around them, they seem to live in their fantasy. He said I also go into that mode at some points, but I didn't really get which situations he meant, though I do believe him when he says I do that.
I said the first state sounds pretty normal to me, why would you not feel like **** if reality is ****? He answered that it probably felt pretty normal to me, but that mentally healthy people usually manage to get into some kind of mixture of the two states. They have reality which is bad, but their feelings are not all bad, though they still know what reality is.

He asked whether I understood what he was trying to explain, which I did. But I also said that while it sounds like it would be nice to be in that mixed state, it doesn't sound like it would help in the long run. At some point things are going to go down and I'll go back to that equivalence mode. T said that all people experience those two states sometimes, especially the equivalence one. He himself does sometimes when he's not doing well. But if you're healthy you'll normally be in a mixture, so you won't go back to that all the time. I said let's imagine we live in Syria, I think the norm would be that equivalence state. He said yeah, but if that state was the norm, we'd already be in a war for a while... I told him that if that happens, I'll be doing much worse than most people simply because my emotions go all over the place. That's why I want to die, I don't want to end up like that. T asked whether I meant I'd like to run from suffering before it happens, which I confirmed. He answered that this reminded him of a situation he experienced in primary school. He was about 8 or 9 years old. He and his friends swore that when they'd turn 40, they'd climb the Eiffel tower and jump down. Since they'd be old at that point and being old didn't sound good. He said that he's usually careful with such images, but that it might help to see that he at some points also thought like that. But that now he has visited the tower multiple times and never jumped down. And his friends also didn't consider it, else they'd have contacted him.

T said that I seemed quite relaxed, whether I could feel that, because that'd be the state where you'd really feel yourself instead of reality or something else. I agreed that I was relaxed and said I can at least feel I am.

After a bit of silence, I said I think my partner's not happy at the moment. Because I want to pick up a new hobby, sport shooting. T asked whether I'd want to do it with real weapons or air pistols. I said real guns, those that can kill people... To my surprise, T was enthusiastic and thought it was a great idea! He said it would be great for me to join a club, as well as to do something where you have to concentrate and empty your mind. He said my partner is probably worried since I'm rather impulsive. I nodded. Then I said that if I wanted to die, I could already do that now, I don't need a gun for that. So I'm not too worried about that. T agreed and said how of course there's some responsibilites that come with owning a weapon, but that he's not too worried either. I was rather glad about that, since it really does sound like a lot of fun.

Then we quickly discussed how I felt bad for making him angry last session. He had asked me about how he might have felt after some things that I said in that session, which I had thought was mad, frustrated and worried. And now I felt like I shouldn't share everything with him, since he confirmed that those were his feelings back then. He told me that's not the intention at all. That I should learn how other people might react to the things I tell them, but that doesn't mean that I can't share these things with him. That the most important part about therapy is to be open about things you are thinking about. It was nice to hear that.

Then we confirmed for next Wednesday and I left.
ChickenNoodleSoup is offline  
 
Hugs from:
LonesomeTonight
 
Thanks for this!
CantExplain
LonesomeTonight
Always in This Twilight
 
LonesomeTonight's Avatar
 
Member Since Feb 2015
Location: US
Posts: 20,731 (SuperPoster!)
9
74.9k hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Oct 12, 2018 at 12:20 PM
  #218
T yesterday. Went back and sat down, commented on the weather. We talked a bit about my D's sleeping issues, and the lack of sleep is causing stress for H and me, plus making D cranky in the mornings, which makes H get irritable, etc. T commented on how tough that can be, adding: "The word you're looking for is s***show." Me: "Yes, exactly!"

T asked if there was anything leading up to my email/text Sunday that we hadn't gotten to last session. I started with update on H, how I'd talked to him briefly about what I considered to be "fights" in the previous week. T: "I'm guessing he didn't think of them as fights?" Me: "Exactly. He acted like two were no big deal and the third, he said was all his fault, his oversleeping. We'd had this discussion over email, and I replied to the part about oversleeping, saying I appreciated him saying it was his fault. But that he also never apologized to how he acted to me that morning. And H didn't reply to that..."

Me: "So I don't know how to talk to him about some of this stuff if he doesn't even consider it a fight." T: "Have you asked him what he does consider them?" Me: "No, I would guess maybe just an irritation?" T: "It could be helpful to find out what his language is for them so you can discuss them." Me: "Hm, good point. I think it's just hard because if I consider it a fight and he considers it this minor thing, then..." T: "Then it feels like he thinks you're making too big of a deal out of it?" Me: "Yes, like I'm overreacting, being too sensitive. I guess I just need to try talking about it." T: "You want him to know what effect it has on you." Me: "Yeah, where it's something that's been bothering me all day, while he immediately forgot about it."

I said also how he might think that if he's stressed because of work and takes it out on me, that because he says it's not about me, then it's fine. T said that's a coping mechanism some people use. That emotions build up, and they have to do something with them. He asked if he'd act that way (like yelling at me and D) to his coworkers, particularly his boss. I said no. He asked about his mom, other family. Me: "His Mom? Yes." T: "Well, then it could be helpful to think about why he feels OK expressing those feelings to those people. Maybe because he feels comfortable with you and them?" Me: "Maybe. Is it kind of like...how a kid--like my D--can hold it together at school but then gets home and lets it all out because they feel safe with their parents?" T: "Sort of like that." Me: "Hmm."

T said how there are other ways to let the emotions out, but you have to let them out somehow. Me: "Like exercise?" T: "Well, exercise can help with stress, but not as much in getting feelings out. I mean more talking to people about it, journaling, reflecting on it, praying..." I burst out laughing. Me: "Sorry, I just can't imagine H praying. He went to Catholic school but isn't religious at all." T: "OK, so maybe not that." T said it seems like my main way of processing emotions is reflecting on them myself, that I do talk to friends about things and post on PC, but much of it is internal, that even in posting, it's partly me processing it. Me: "I agree." T: "And that can be a good way to handle it--it's not like you're going to be gossiping to yourself about you, like (in different voices), 'I can't believe LT did this.' 'I know, right?'"

T said he wasn't sure because he doesn't know H, but he gets the sense he doesn't process things internally so much. That he just does things and goes about his day and doesn't necessarily reflect on them. Me: "Yeah, I agree. And it's weird, I used to be more drawn to guys who were really reflective. But I think H appealed to me because I thought he'd help balance me out, like he seemed laid back, though he hates that term." T: "And maybe he was drawn to you because he thought you'd balance him out. The opposites attract thing. Of course, those can also be the things that drive you crazy when you've been together a long time." Me: "Yeah..."

Later in session, I brought up how a couple years ago, I'd been talking to H about wanting him to really listen and have more empathy for stuff I was dealing with, like in therapy, etc. And H said, "Well, I want you to clean the house more." T: "Ha! So there's an example of you being in totally different places about things, having a completely different conversation." Me: "Yeah...and also shows that he's not looking for me as much to meet his emotional needs."

We discussed a recent conflict I'd had with a friend, where she was upset with me over something I'd said. Then I explained, and she explained, and we worked it through right then. T: "Good! Isn't it nice when it happens that way?" Me: "Yes, it is. I'm just not used to it."

Then I said I'd gotten together the week before with a friend I'd recently met in our local online autism group and our kids. How I was worried about what to say to her because her H had died a couple months ago (T: "Oh wow"), but apparently I did OK because she invited me to do something in a couple weeks. Me: "So it's kind of like I have a new friend." T: "That's kinda funny, like something you'd say in elementary school: 'I have a new friend!'" Me (laughing): "Yeah, though it can be hard to make friends as an adult." T: "True.

I glanced at the time. We had maybe 10 minutes left. Me: "So...back to stuff from Sunday, I realize now that the email I sent you wasn't what I should have said." T: "What do you mean? I don't recall anything particularly strange in it. Maybe I should go back and read it." Me: "No, not that there was anything weird. It's more that it was 'here's some good stuff I've done,' then 'I'm struggling right now,' then 'so you can definitely make Monday's session, right?' Like I downplayed how badly I was doing. And how you responded to the email made perfect sense in terms of what I said. So I had no reason to be disappointed with it. But I should have just been more straightforward with how I was feeling and what I was asking for." T: "Why do you think you weren't just straightforward?" Me: "Maybe I was afraid to be? And I wanted to show you I was doing good stuff, too?"

T: "This might come back to something I mentioned a few weeks ago, my reticence in telling you I thought you were making progress. That you might feel you had to show me how good you were doing and not show the less good stuff." Me: "Hm...I'm not sure it was totally about that, like I had worried about sharing these sorts of things with you before you told me that. Like afraid to tell you how bad I was feeling..." T: "But maybe it still ties into your wanting to be the 'A' student. I think you'd also do much better with stuff with your mom if you could let go of that need." Me: "Yeah."

Me (crying a little): "So...regarding the question you asked me when I texted (and still sorry about that)." T: "Are you safe?" Me: "Yes, that question. What would have happened if I'd said no? I mean, I assume you'd have just sent me the number for a crisis line or told me to go to the ER, right? Or would you have sent the cops or something?" T: "In most cases, I'd have been able to talk to you for a bit. Sunday night was just an exception." Me: "I mean, I know, it was a Sunday night, so I couldn't expect..." T: "It wasn't that, it was just that particular night." Me: "Oh, OK..."

Me: "And I guess...maybe I don't know what your definition of 'safe' is.
Possible trigger:


Me: "And, OK I know we have to stop, but I guess I also don't know what you think would constitute a crisis. Like what if I defined it differently." T: "I think this is a good topic to discuss more in depth. I wouldn't want to give an off-the-cuff answer right now that you might misinterpret." Me: "OK, that makes sense. Sorry for bringing it up at the end...but yes, we can discuss on Monday. Maybe in the meantime I can give more thought to what I consider a crisis?" T: "That's a good idea."

Confirmed schedule, went over to pay. I told T I was doing a 5K Saturday, but was just planning to walk it. Me: "I'm concerned they'll be annoyed with me." T: "Who?" Me: "The people in charge of the race. Like if I take too long. I think I can finish in under an hour." T reassured me that it would be fine. Me: "OK, that helps." T shook my hand, saying "Good luck in the race!" Me: "Thanks!" T: "Break a leg--that's a way of saying good luck." Me: "I know! Thanks." T: "See you Monday." Me: "See you then."
LonesomeTonight is offline  
 
Hugs from:
SlumberKitty
 
Thanks for this!
chihirochild, SlumberKitty
velcro003
Elder
 
velcro003's Avatar
 
Member Since Oct 2008
Posts: 7,361
15
25 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Oct 12, 2018 at 08:27 PM
  #219
LT: People walk 5ks ALL the time
velcro003 is offline  
 
Thanks for this!
chihirochild, LonesomeTonight, WarmFuzzySocks
chihirochild
Magnate
 
chihirochild's Avatar
 
Member Since Feb 2017
Location: North America
Posts: 2,360
7
4,865 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Oct 12, 2018 at 08:38 PM
  #220
Came in after having to take the whole week off because of the damn depression. Was not feeling good--had tears in my eyes on and off even though I am not a frequent crier.

We talked a bit about how the depression feels, how sometimes when I feel depressed the accompanying sadness reminds me of things I've lost. Then he who must not be named wanted to talk about how I experience relationships when the depression is bad. I told him about how my friends are checking on me and coming to my place to watch movies and dragging me outside. I told him about this guy I'm involved with who came over and brought ice cream and turned on a TV show and held me for a long time. HWMNBN was impressed that I'd asked the guy if he was hanging out with me just because he likes having sex with me (just to be clear this guy and I have a good relationship and I asked him in a nice way, not in an accusatory way) and the guy responded "no of course not, we can stop having sex if you'd like, I still want to spend time with you." And then he stayed the night and didn't initiate any funny business which was nice.

We talked about my need for caretaking and how I feel ashamed about that need 'cause my mom like projectile vomits her needs all over the place and I am disgusted by that. (I interpret that as "Because my mom's way of expressing needs is gross, I have come to believe that needs are gross" whereas HWMNBN thinks it's because I have merged my identity with my mother's yadda yadda yadda. This is not a man who has internalized Occam's razor.) He said that he thinks that my depression is at least in part due to the fact that this is the only way I know how to express needs is if I'm suicidally depressed, that if I learn to experience and express these needs in a different way I will not have such a heavy burden of disease. He said he wants me to try thinking of my depression as a request rather than something that is inflicted on me by my brain or the outside world.

I told him I was not feeling patient, that therapy effects change at a glacial pace, that I dunno if it even works (b/c I've done a lot of it and it hasn't helped). He said, "I feel like reassuring you" (which is the sort of phrase that drives me bonkers because only a therapist would say, "I feel like reassuring you" rather than just providing some effing reassurance). I said that even if he were to attempt to reassure me, I wouldn't buy it, not entirely because I lack faith in him personally but because I doubt that the problem I have can be fixed or even helped by therapy. Then he said, "and also, I'm very good." I rolled my eyes and put my head in my hands and he said, "I'm kidding. But not entirely." I said, "that's the trouble, that you're not entirely kidding. That sort of crap makes me want to throw you out a window. Not an especially high window, but still." He laughed and said, "well you're getting in touch with your desires, that's good!"

We were past tine, so I had to go. He said, "I hope you feel better." I said, "yeah, me too."

A half-hour later when I was still in group he sent a follow-up email about more stuff he wants me to think about this week. I have a feeling this is going to devolve into discussion of how I have tested HWMNBN by "de-valuing our work together" (a phrase that spends about as much time in his mouth as does the pen cap he's constantly chewing on).

Hi [chihirochild],

I just wanted to add one additional thing for you to think about this week, as a follow up from our discussion today. I really appreciated your insight about the way in which you were potentially “testing” [the guy I mentioned] (sp?) to see if he really was wanting to be with you, rather than just using you. It could be important for us to explore together for their other ways in which you might test people in your life, consciously but also less than consciously, especially when you are in the midst of your depressive episodes, but also perhaps through withdrawal, avoidance, or anger/frustration towards others. Not sure if that is relevant at all, but just wanted to throw it out there. “Testing” of course implies a wish, but a wish that is hidden and thus perhaps less uncomfortable to experience.

Take care,

[HWMNBN]


ETA: I just remembered that part of his attempt at reassurance (or, rather, his discussion of how he had the desire to attempt to reassure me) included me saying that I was already quite tired and that uncovering and expressing all those needs sounded exhausting. Not to mention painful. He said that I wouldn't be doing it alone.

Last edited by chihirochild; Oct 12, 2018 at 09:28 PM..
chihirochild is offline  
 
Hugs from:
ElectricManatee, LonesomeTonight, SalingerEsme, WarmFuzzySocks
 
Thanks for this!
SalingerEsme
Closed Thread
attentionThis is an old thread. You probably should not post your reply to it, as the original poster is unlikely to see it.




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:28 AM.
Powered by vBulletin® — Copyright © 2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.



 

My Support Forums

My Support Forums is the online community that was originally begun as the Psych Central Forums in 2001. It now runs as an independent self-help support group community for mental health, personality, and psychological issues and is overseen by a group of dedicated, caring volunteers from around the world.

 

Helplines and Lifelines

The material on this site is for informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis or treatment provided by a qualified health care provider.

Always consult your doctor or mental health professional before trying anything you read here.