In Session Today: Part V

TW for brief fire metaphor in text.





I had an odd session today. I began by telling R that I had been reflecting on her question ‘Do you feel a disconnect from your emotions?’ and realised that I have created a disconnect from my emotions so that I do not have to feel them.
R wondered whether this was a recent development, and if I was similar before.

‘It always catches me by surprise when I express emotion.’
‘What do you mean by that? Are you talking about crying?’
‘Yes. When I cry, I feel a lot of shame. I haven’t yet worked out why.’
I mentioned that I am struggling with the magnitude of it, although ‘most people’ would not be as affected by it as I have been.
We talked about similarities and differences between the two experiences again, and the pertinent point that I was not overloaded with information regarding Chris’ illness until Jonathan provided updates. I mentioned that I felt there may have been some agreement between Chris and our mutual friend that I did not need to know everything. In contrast, with the other situation I was bombarded. I mentioned that I did not have boundaries at that time to be able to intervene. There were many moments, and yet it is January 2011 that sticks and repeats. Another conversation ensued about the extent of the nights and lack of control.
R said that she was struck by the way I talk with acceptance about Chris’ illness and death, although it is obviously painful. She wondered whether there is a physiological aspect to my sleep issues, in that the body gets used to certain things.


Our closing conversation revolved around the fact that it can become comfortable to analyse things, but R senses that there is somewhere I fear to go. She asked me to consider what is the worst that could happen, and try to articulate what that fear is. She understands that it may take some time for me to feel safe again due to the break. She wants me to know that she will not make me go there, but we can go there together.

You shut me down again. I know I don’t have the right to speak and certainly no right to any compassion, thanks t. . I know you said i turn people off .. you didn’t even say what I keep doing wrong. You just shower me with cruel words to make me feel lower than you are, you snake

Quote:
" T: "Well, that's one of the limitations of our relationship." Me: "Oh." T: "I'm not your friend." Me: "...I know that...I..."
LT I loved this post because it captures the moment of hitting up against a boundary , and getting jolted almost out of the normal rapport. Then, there's the relief of reconnecting, of hearing yes that boundary was set very firmly, but it is in no way a harbinger of things falling apart.

My T parks in a specific lot that is a walk to his building, and the clients ( me too) park on the city street. Bc of that, I don't know what he drives even after all this time. He is very secretive in the old school psychoanalyst way. I also don't think he knows what car I drive either.

Monday's session with T went okay. I told him that I've been recovering all weekend from this evil cold I've had. He said he could still hear it in my voice. We talked about my autoimmune disease and I educated him about my lack of immune system. He laughed and said that I bet I didn't think I'd be teaching him about that stuff. It was really okay, I don't mind talking about that. We talked about how I had MC on the Sunday before, and how I felt like it was a crap session because our T was late and let us out early. I talked about how my H was blaming me for seeing my Magic Men (look it up if you don't know but want to. I go every year for my birthday). At one point in the session I had a coughing fit that wouldn't stop so I got up to go to the waiting room for water and came back. That felt weird to me because I do things so routinely...come in and sit down the same way, get up and leave the same way. When I came back I felt disconnected from what we were previously talking about. T asked me if it hurt to talk, told him no, it's just this lingering crap. He reminded me that we're not meeting on Friday this week and we ended it with see you on Wednesday.

I want to hear more about this.

Wednesday's session was a little more weird for me. I've been on edge all day and told him that and started talking about H and how I'm upset with him with how he treats me. Also told him I had some SI on Monday night but didn't want to talk more about it. Somewhere along in my conversation I said I talk to my cousin aboht my H but I try to talk about other things with her too so its not always about H. He asked if I feel like that in therapy, where the conversations get focused on H. I said yes, and he said he notices it too. He said something about how he plays a role in letting me lead the conversation when I come in, and how it usually always goes straight to talking about H. He said he's not criticizing, just that it's an observation and how much H is negatively affecting me. He asked me if there's other things that I would talk about if H wasn't an issue, and I said my kids, father and H are my biggest stressors. Things like my self esteem and self harm are pushed to the back. It was closer to the end of session by then so he reminded me again about Friday and asked how I think the rest of the week will be for me. Told him I hope to keep busy with my kids and cleaning, how I am trying to do activities with them like trunk or treats and such this week while they're out of school for fall break. He told me that's part of what makes me a good mom. Said let's stop there and see him Monday.

My T doesn't think that I am ready to talk about a traumatic event, that I will retraumatize myself. That pisses me off; I LIVED through the effin' thing, but I'm not strong enough to TALK about it? So I focus on my breathing, trust the process, trust the process, trust the process, grit my teeth, trust the process...

(super long, tbh mostly writing this for myself because I always forget details after a while)

I asked him what he thought I heard from him Monday
he said we talked about a lot of things, asked me to specify
I said it was about my father
He wasn't sure. Reminded me that mind reading is a cognitive distortion. He didn't want to guess, he wanted me to just tell him.
I was silent for like 30 seconds. Then I said "I told you that it mattered to me."
He asked what it was that he'd said that upset me. I said it was what he didn't say.
I reminded him that the whole subject had come up because I talked about having walked out of a recovery meeting because some father was talking about being an "authoritarian" and it sounded more to me like his kid was hurt and angry (the guy was a prick sober, I can't imagine he was any nicer drunk) and the father was just trying to punish his son into obedience. He even admitted to frequently losing his temper and sometimes storming off to drink. But everyone else in the room took his story at face value, agreed with him, told him that kids these days don't get enough discipline, their parents punishing them had made them better, etc (well you're in a meeting for people with substance abuse issues, so clearly you didn't turn out that well adjusted).
I know my father's side of the story sounds a lot like that. I was just acting out, a rebellious teenager, he was trying to instill discipline and obedience and respect, etc.
And if my father had been in that room they would have been telling him he was doing the right thing.
No one in the room asked if the kid might be hurt. No one asked why the kid might be acting out. No one questioned whether the kid might have the right to be angry.

I told T this Monday, then said I needed to know whether it was unacceptable/wrong/abusive and he gave some BS answer about caring about my feelings and how it affected me, not that question.

I told him this today. I told him his answer was the kind of answer you give to someone who's overreacting and blowing things out of proportion but you don't want to invalidate their feelings. He said we could talk about these things, if I want to know if he thinks those things he wants me to ask. I told him I could't ask a direct yes or no question like that because I couldn't handle a yes.
He said if he'd said yes I could have set the record straight, explained what it had been like and why it wasn't overreacting. I told him that if he'd said yes I wouldn't have done that. I would have doubted myself. That no one who hadn't lived with my father or experienced his rage believed it was that bad.
He said that he'd had many patients in abusive situations that no one outside of the situation would have known about, like a father who was a judge, and after a pause I said "or a well-respected mathematician" (my father).T said "yes."

He said I'd told him that my father would get inches away from my face and yell and wave his arms around and be physically intimidating and I couldn't get away. He said that sounded wrong to him, that my father could have calmly addressed the behavior that had upset him.
I told him that they weren't even things I had done wrong. Like my brother and I would get in an argument, my father would completely blame me, and then when I tried to defend myself and explain what had happened my father would get angry about "disrespect" and "disobedience."
T said that eventually I must have learned that nothing I would say would change my father's mind, that I wasn't going to convince him. I shook my head and told him that I never stopped arguing back. That there may have been instances where I decided it wasn't worth it, but there was never a point after which I stopped standing up for myself. That it wasn't fair or right. That my brother used to beg me to just placate my father because he hated us fighting, but that I wouldn't.
He said "good for you" and sounded genuinely surprised and impressed.
Then asked me where that voice that stood up for myself and defended myself was when I was being cruel to myself. I told him only I'm allowed to hurt me.
He said that's what we're working on changing.

He asked me, to the best of my recollection, on a scale of 1-10 how scared I was of my father when he went into those rages. I told him that I don't think I was scared. That I wanted to run away and hide, but there wasn't anything to fear. That my father never hit me. That I'd wished he would so I wouldn't have to go back.
He asked if I had nightmares or flashbacks. I said no. I did tell him about the dream I'd had where my father called my ex-T and he'd managed to convince her of how reasonable he was and she told me about this and that she now "understood" the situation and believed my father's version and that I had just been an unruly teen.
I'd told ex-T about this and she'd assured me that that would never happen, and she wouldn't take a phone call from my father but even if she did speak to him she wouldn't believe him. That nothing he could say would convince her. That she believed me.
I told T that, while there had been egregious boundary issues and all of that, that that was something I'd really needed to hear at the time and that it had meant a lot.

I told him that I hated the smell of toasted almonds, because when my father was drunk late at night he would toast almonds and often fight with my mom and I'd hear them screaming downstairs. And because he was drunk he'd often forget about the almonds and burn them and I could smell them.

I told him that I hadn't necessarily been scared of going to my father's house, but there was this overwhelming sense of dread. That, as I'd told him before, I would SH in the days leading up to it to cope with the feelings. That it had been self-soothing and about escaping my thoughts, not about hurting myself. T said that that says something about the situation, that I was 13 and using SH to cope with those things.

He asked if my father called me names/said bad things about me. I said no. That my father had sometimes criticized my academic performance and then blamed my mom for me not doing better. That I'd had a 2.6 GPA in high school and only got into a mediocre state school for undergrad. And when I told my father about my acceptance straight from undergrad into one of the top PhD programs for my field (a week after I told everyone else, ha!) his response had been to put down my undergrad institution and to say he'd always known that I could do better. And that my response had basically been a "**** you," my undergrad is the reason I am where I am today, and I would not have done well or gotten the research experience that I did if I'd gone to an R1. My father said that wouldn't have mattered if I'd had Berkeley or a school like that on my transcript. And I took delight in telling him that our program rejects plenty of applicants from Berkeley, including ones with better GPAs than I had.
T said I'd really internalized my father's beliefs. I noted that I'd never agreed with my father or cared about his opinion of me, and yet I really had internalized his beliefs. T said it was weird how that works.

I told T that logically I can remind myself that my mother is still super damaged by her relationship with my father, and that my brother hasn't spoken to my father since we graduated high school 6 years ago and used to regularly have breakdowns about having to go to my father's house. So that meant it wasn't just me who experienced this with my father.

At some point T asked me about my reactions to my father, like the dread and SH and all that, and asked what that told me about the situation (clearly looking for the answer that it really was bad). And I looked up at him and smirked and said "that I was weak?" T laughed and said he should have known that that would be my answer.

We talked about the fact that I hadn't SHed, even when I was really upset about this. I told him that I'd seriously considered it, but I didn't. Not because I thought I'd regret it, but because that would make it easier the next time, and the time after that, until eventually I'd be ending up in the ER again.
T said he admired that I resisted the urges and how difficult it must have been.
He asked me about challenging my own beliefs. Whether in those moments I heard his voice in my head. I told him that the times I did think about him I was either angry at him for not truly understanding and trying to get me to do this recovery stuff, or I was convincing myself that he didn't really care and hated me and I'd be doing him a favor if I just gave up. He said there had to be some part of me that knew that wasn't true though. I said yes, but that it felt really true.
That all these hurtful thoughts I direct towards myself feel really true. That in the moment really truly feeling like you're a bad and weak person who deserves to suffer is not pleasant. He kind of gently/seriously acknowledged that that must be really painful.

He wants me to work on believing that I matter. Said that some part of me has to believe that because I'm there working with him for a reason. I joked that the reason I was there was to have an excuse to take the afternoon off from work. Then I said I did want to feel better, but there was a lot of internal conflict about it. He said he knew that.

He said some stuff about eventually empowering myself, not believing those things about myself, etc. I told him that part of me liked beating myself up, that it was comfortable and safe. That it let me feel sorry for myself. He asked if that was what I really wanted and I said yes. I told him that I was worried everyone would stop caring. He asked me what I'd say to someone else, pointed out the people who care about me, and said it might be a different kind of caring or I might experience it differently when I let myself believe that I deserve it.

I mentioned at the end that this was my last scheduled appointment. We scheduled for Tues and Fri next week because I have seminar on Monday afternoons starting next week. He didn't even ask whether I still wanted two appointments, he just kind of assumed. Which made me feel better.

I love that story. You might like this song:

Fox in the Field

I appreciate that you shared this story. It has many dynamics that I think many people can relate to, including that this kind of non-physical child abuse can be very harmful. It's certainly harmful to the relationship between the parent and the child; people who think that parenting is all about "obedience" and that children need to be terrorized or threatened into good behavior. And there is ample research evidence that emotional abuse in childhood is harmful to the child as well. I was listening to a court hearing not long ago as part of a courtwatch community project (local judge elections coming up). A man testified that he was trying to teach his children to be good people and the judge looked at him when announcing her decision that he would get no visitation with his children and said if he wanted to teach his children to be good people he should stop beating their mother in front of them. IME being peripherally around courtrooms in the past 25 years, this is not typical judge commentary, but oh so satisfying.

I share that stand-up-to-the-father thing you identified, and watched my younger sibling be complacent so he didn't have to suffer like I did. It took a lot out of me as a child to have to spend so much energy not backing down, that once I left the house I think it took the ground under my feet and I had to learn how to be in a world where people (mostly) weren't trying to attack me all the time. That the defenses I had to use in childhood were very consuming and finding other ways to be in relation to people and myself took a long time to stabilize. They are still ongoing now. I struggled with SH and engaged in relationships where I had to find who I was in relation to other people. It was like I was using my own past to wreck up my present, then I found my freedom in studying in the field I'm still in, and it felt like for the first time that I was able to use my past in standing up to powerful people to my advantage. Luckily in my graduate school the powerful people loved it when students said what they really thought, so I was able to thrive there. That grounded me so I could work on the less tangilble things.

It sounds like this session was something of a turning point for you and you were brave in telling your T what you needed to. Great work.

I love that chapter. I've actually quoted that it to my T before, but it was a different part. I was explaining how, no matter what I know logically, things still feel like abandonment/rejection and still hurt.

So the little prince tamed the fox. And when the hour of his departure drew near—
"Ah," said the fox, "I shall cry."
"It is your own fault," said the little prince. "I never wished you any sort of harm; but you wanted me to tame you . . ."
"Yes, that is so," said the fox.
"But now you are going to cry!" said the little prince.
"Yes, that is so," said the fox.

The part I would want to quote to my T but would be too ashamed/embarrassed is when the fox says "You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed."
I feel like that applies to therapists. If you're going to get us to let down our defenses and finally be vulnerable and trust and allow ourselves to care, you'd better be prepared to handle it.

Are you glad you stood up for yourself? Or do you wish you'd become complacent?

The weird thing is that I'm not like that in a lot of other aspects of my life. With many things I'm really insecure and will defer to others.
It's only when it becomes a question of fairness and whether or not something is right that I'll stand up for myself. If someone doesn't like me or criticizes me or something, that's not immoral and I get it because I don't like me either. If someone says something intentionally hurtful and cruel or accuses me of something I didn't do or something else that's wrong/unfair/unjust, I will stand up for myself because it's the principle of the thing.

I'm really glad you found a place where it was appreciated, and it sounds like you've done a lot of reflection and made a lot of progress.

Both t and I often reference the elephant in the room idiom and the elephant riddle. (How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.)

From yesterday's session, talking about processing trauma and memory:
T- Memory is like a dotted line. Our brains want to fill in the blanks.
Me- So how do I get from the dotted line to something I can fold up and put away in a drawer?
(Discussion about trauma and memory and processing.)
T- When the elephant walks into the room and sits on your head, it's hard to get a bite.

It was a good session. Long, interesting. We talked quite a bit about intersections between culture and women and traditional gender roles and power and entitlement and how those play out from the individual level to the cultural level...I was going to write, "stuff that's way more interesting than whining about my own sh**" but that's why I go to therapy, so...topics that both intersect with my sh** and are interesting in their own right.

Yes, I am glad. At the time, as a child, it was a choice that I don't think I made consciously, I think it was just the only thing I could figure out to do. And then like a lot of kids who don't feel like they have an array of options, I just kept doing the same thing like a broken record. I don't think I'd be who I am now if I'd crumbled then. I think standing up for myself saved me even though it cost me, if that makes any sense.

T got me after washing his coffee mug. I was a bit surprised he was wearing a red shirt (which is only the second time that he's worn something other than blue).

He asked what was up. I told him how I'd been quite alright after last session. Not great but alright. I even thought about what I wanted to talk about today. Then this morning I read an article while eating breakfast and now I'm scared

He was quiet for maybe half a minute. He asked me what I'd read. I told him about one of those studies on how insects are dying in masses. T asked whether it made me sad (probably because I was crying and sobbing after maybe 2 seconds of talking). I was actually just scared though. I said I'm irritated that nobody else seems to have any emotional reaction or even think about it at all. My uncle has four cars, my parents just bought a house which was just missed by a hurricane last week. The only person who seems to kind of feel the same is my partner, though he's not worried the same way. I told T about an event I'm going to in a couple of weeks where they'll present a scientific report of what the climate in my country will look like in the next 10 years. A buddy of mine agreed to accompany me, but already told me that I am not allowed to voice any concerns about the future based on any of the information we hear there. T asked whether I whine as much there as I do here, to which I said I don't whine. He said yeah, sorry, that's true. I said I usually share concerns and provide information. He started to say that maybe those people get scared because I act the way I do? Whether I knew what he's talking about? I answered projection. T said yes and that he thinks that might be the main reason people always leave me. He asked why it irritates me when people don't seem to react as emotionally as I do when I tell them about something? I said when they do react it feels less lonely. Like they understand and are thinking about things too. But they don't seem to be thinking about anything at all, they seem to not care.

T said most people around me probably do think about it and care. But they don't react emotionally like I do. I asked why not, it seems obvious to me to react this way, who would not if they found out they might die 40 years early? T: "If you worry about that, you have to worry about a lot of things, you can't function like that..." - "Yes, you can! I react like that all the time and I function!" - "No, you don't, else you wouldn't be here." Kind of had to agree with that.
He told me about some major news from last week which made him angry and sad. But he said that he just kept that inside, and dealt with it on his own. Most people feel things sometimes about the world, they just don't let everyone know.

We talked about this some more I think. Then, we switched to discussing meds some more, he explained all the possible side effects in more detail, how the mechanism behind them works and what tests he had ordered to be done. In the end he handed me a letter specifying all the things that need testing for my doctor, which made me kind of happy since I could see his handwriting for the first time.

Then we scheduled for next week and said bye.

I don't even know what the hell we talked about today, but I do know that talking about it made me feel like crap.

I think maybe part of it was because he was saying I appeared to have a "passive" attitude towards some of the things we were discussing--e.g. "yes I suppose that on an unconscious level my withdrawn behaviour could operate as a kind of test--will you respond by leaning in or by ignoring me?--but it doesn't *feel* like I'm testing you so I'm not sure if that's actually what's happening."

The ridiculous thing is that I am working really effing hard in sessions--my brain going a mile a minute, forcing myself to say stuff that makes me feel vulnerable--but he doesn't seem to see or appreciate that. I don't really understand how he "wants" me to respond. Like, yes I understand your argument intellectually; it doesn't resonate emotionally but maybe that's because it's operating at level of consciousness that is below my awareness. Wtf else do you want me to say? Am I supposed to be wowed by your interpretation? Like, my reaction is my reaction, why are you making a big deal about this? He said something about how I experience my depression as something that is forced upon me by my brain, how I no longer feel curious about what might contribute to it or change it... he thought that perhaps there was some kind of parallel process occurring.

Also last week he sent me an email asking me to think about about how I might test people in my life, and about what wish might underly that. In my response, I answered the second part but not the first, and he seemed annoyed about that. I had actually been kind of proud of that email because I felt like I'd really put some thought into it, and had taken some risks in what I'd said. The problem is that I have a really hard time thinking about how I might test people in my life because whenever I try to think about it I feel so ashamed about the idea that I am unconsciously manipulating people that my brain shorts out and I forget what I'm thinking about or my thoughts get slippery and disorganized and I just can't get anywhere. I tried to get him to understand this, I said, "it feels like when it's 2am and I'm alone in the ICU and one of my patients is dying and I'm so scared that I just can't think--my thoughts just don't cohere. They are all over the place, they refuse to precipitate." He didn't seem to get it, he showed me a printout of the email I'd sent him, which he'd written all over, and said, "one of the questions you asked was, 'Will you notice and care about that suffering even if I can’t articulate it?'--are you testing me now, be being unable to articulate your suffering, to see how I'll respond?" I said, "I don't know, it doesn't feel to me like i'm doing that." And then we went around in circles some more.

At the end, he asked how I felt. I said "defeated" or "despairing" or something along those lines. He said that he felt a bit guilty for the fact that I felt that way, and a bit worried about me, and asked how I felt about that. I said, "this sounds a tad sadistic I guess, but it's nice to know that you care enough about me to feel worried about me, to feel guilty when you feel like you've caused me distress." He said, "maybe that's what you wish for when you test me, for me to feel guilty." I said, "see, that makes me feel ashamed about being manipulative." And then I was late for group so I had to go.

I hate this.

I just want him to make me feel better but he never does.

The stupid thing is that he says that I withdraw which makes him lean in, and then I de-value him and keep him at arm's length. He feels like he's working really hard and I'm not engaging. I feel like i'm trying really hard but what he's doing isn't working. It feels like an impossible bind.

Chihiro, I try not to respond to things on the In Session thread, but your T and his arrogance and his lack of empathy and his uncurious, firm opinions about how you operate and why all make me really nervous. Bad therapy can be exceedingly harmful, especially when it sounds like you're in a tough, vulnerable place already. It doesn't seem like he's on your side, and it doesn't seem like he honors the effort you're putting in, and he always seems to assume the worst of your motivations. I'm seeing some giant red flags. Depressed people already beat themselves up enough; they certainly don't need a therapist to help do it too.

Chihiro, I could have written your post almost word for word after my last session. I think I’ll start a thread about it. It’s so hard to feel totally missed.

our last session before we go out of office for phobia work, was yesterday, we spent quite a bit of time talking about the prep and plans, i was sweating like crazy on my hands and my heart was racing. T must have noticed because he looked at me and was like, just breathe...and we started talking about some silly stuff to relax me.

I'm glad he's willing to do this with me.... but I am so terrified, the closer it gets to thurs, the more nervous I will be.... but I trust him and he has a way of making me feel calm around him so I'm hoping for the best

he was funny too, making some jokes about it....

we also talked about jealousy of other clients, he knows its a legit thing and only with women now lol. that was awkward but he handled it well.

he also showed me a cute little stuffed toy he bought for the office, he says he thought it was a hamster but its clearly a husky dog lol.. i was laughing. huskies are my fav. I'm already eyeing it for a thing to ask for when he goes on a trip.