advertisement
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Display Modes
junkDNA
Comfy Sedation
 
junkDNA's Avatar
 
Member Since Sep 2012
Location: the woods
Posts: 19,301 (SuperPoster!)
11
8,149 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Oct 20, 2018 at 06:33 AM
  #261
I got mad and e-mailed my t something rude n mean

hours later he showed up in my store and came to my department. I wasn't gonna look at him but I did. I felt embarased

he smiled and waved at me

how does he not hate me. I swear he is not human

__________________
junkDNA is offline  
 
Hugs from:
Anastasia~, captgut, ChickenNoodleSoup, Echos Myron redux, LabRat27, Lemoncake, LonesomeTonight, Lrad123, NP_Complete, SlumberKitty, unaluna, WarmFuzzySocks

advertisement
SalingerEsme
Grand Poohbah
 
SalingerEsme's Avatar
 
Member Since Jul 2017
Location: Neverland
Posts: 1,805
6
4,957 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Oct 20, 2018 at 07:16 AM
  #262
This last month of sessions represents the both best and most difficult aspects of therapy. Events in our town too triggering to rightfully depict on the forum and my tiny part in the community's effort to cope showed the best in you or the best in us as a pair.

You picked out the salient way my "gaze" or what I watched/ saw became staring rather than looking back to all the things in life that are good and grounding. You came up with a beautiful metaphor, that I could make eye contact with you out on the search team, I could turn my gaze to you for comfort even though you weren't literally present.

I know that is object constancy dressed up in poetry, but it helped me shift my attention when I got overwhelmed and dig down more deeply.

I think you found more respect for me, bc so much of our time is in your room, under your rules, with your frame dictating, and you are Father Time there, even. Your hour glass has 45 minutes of sand in it.

You maybe realized you are relatively new to the area here, that there is a community outside the room , that other T's make grievous errors which cause real life calamities and aren't infallible to be blindly trusted, and that the calamities are addressed by the people you pigeonhole as your patients.

I have anger toward you longstanding and love for you longstanding all twined together. I experience you as having all the power in therapy, except for my power to completely leave the process. I might bring that sense to the room from my childhood experiences, but you are not a win-win team player. You are quicksilver perceptive , you have gravitas and sterling ethics, you are funny and quick, you say you are my advocate and that you do care. You say you have worked so hard to gain my trust. And yet. There's so little room for me in the room and the frame feels so tight around my neck.

I also don't know what youre made of in real life. You say that is an innate part of therapy's struggle, that it is a leap of faith. I really don't know about that, entrusting my secrets to someone who hides. Take the elevator down from the 4th floor, join the community shoulder to shoulder with people who work long 60 minute hours in emergencies and form a team.

__________________
Living things don’t all require/ light in the same degree. Louise Gluck

Last edited by SalingerEsme; Oct 20, 2018 at 07:35 AM..
SalingerEsme is offline  
 
Hugs from:
ChickenNoodleSoup, LonesomeTonight, lucozader, SlumberKitty, WarmFuzzySocks
 
Thanks for this!
Anne2.0, LonesomeTonight, Lrad123, lucozader
chihirochild
Magnate
 
chihirochild's Avatar
 
Member Since Feb 2017
Location: North America
Posts: 2,360
7
4,865 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Oct 20, 2018 at 09:18 PM
  #263
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElectricManatee View Post
Chihiro, I try not to respond to things on the In Session thread, but your T and his arrogance and his lack of empathy and his uncurious, firm opinions about how you operate and why all make me really nervous. Bad therapy can be exceedingly harmful, especially when it sounds like you're in a tough, vulnerable place already. It doesn't seem like he's on your side, and it doesn't seem like he honors the effort you're putting in, and he always seems to assume the worst of your motivations. I'm seeing some giant red flags. Depressed people already beat themselves up enough; they certainly don't need a therapist to help do it too.
Thanks, EM--I really appreciate your thoughts on this. I'm having a difficult time figuring out why this therapist and I are constantly stalling out... is it me or him or our dynamic or what? I have a hard time trusting him but I try to at least take what he says into consideration (mostly because it drives me bonkers when patients flat-out refuse to believe me even when I know I'm right--though that's different tbh b/c when I know I'm right it's because I have lab values or x rays or whatever to back me up; therapy is nowhere near that concrete). But a lot of the things he offers for consideration make me feel like crap, and often don't feel true to me.

The funny thing is that I'm in a program where all of our individual and group sessions are videotaped and then the various shrinks sit around and watch the videos with each other (or at least bits of them)... so you'd think if he were doing something egregiously wrong, someone would have told him to cut it out??

I'm meeting with the psychiatrist in charge of the program the week after next. I feel a little hopeful about that because the last time I met with him I told him how crappy therapy was feeling and he seemed taken aback and said something about how if things aren't working we can change them. And then he called my T and then my T seemed kind of annoyed (even angry?) I guess because he (my T) felt like the things that were bothering me in therapy weren't things that he was doing (e.g. making a big deal about what he thinks my diagnosis is... though tbh it wasn't so much that he was harping on about it, more that he kept bringing it up in little ways even though I didn't/don't feel ready to talk about/deal with that). So I dunno what the hell to do.
chihirochild is offline  
 
Hugs from:
CantExplain, ChickenNoodleSoup, ElectricManatee, Lemoncake, LonesomeTonight, SlumberKitty
 
Thanks for this!
Lemoncake
LonesomeTonight
Always in This Twilight
 
LonesomeTonight's Avatar
 
Member Since Feb 2015
Location: US
Posts: 20,730 (SuperPoster!)
9
74.9k hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Oct 21, 2018 at 10:27 AM
  #264
T Thursday. He was maybe 4 minutes late in getting me (his previous client was leaving, but it was a guy using a walker and a woman (wife? caregiver?), so I imagine it took him a little time to get out of office and up the hall. T was right behind them--I asked if it was OK to come back, and he said yes. He then apologized for being late, which I said was OK (I mean, ex-MC used to be 20 minutes late and not even bother apologizing by the end...so 4 minutes when he's almost always right on time? OK.)

Sat down. I said how I was kind of tired from being at concert the night before. T: "Oh, how was it?" Talked about it a bit, then he asked me how often I went to them and how expensive it was--considering ticket, parking, getting something to eat, a few drinks. This made me start feeling anxious. I was like, "Can you tell talking about money makes me anxious?" Talked about concerts a few minutes, how I really only go to 5 or 6 shows a year, and he said he was thinking it was more. He said if I was into Broadway shows, how that would cost much more just to go to one or two. I mentioned the cost of going to pro football games, which I haven't done in a few years, then said that brought back a funny memory of going to one with H, where I had to drive him to a couple gas stations afterward, finding someplace where he could pee.

Which led to a 5-minute discussion about urination... T was saying how aging affects the prostate and increases the urge to go (as I'm thinking "I don't want to think about your prostate or urination habits, T!") I mentioned that it's been an issue for H since I started dating him. And how once on the way back from a concert, we were stuck in traffic, and he had to run across the highway to go. T: "My brother would just say, 'keep an empty Gatorade bottle in the car!'" (I'm now trying not to think of his brother or T peeing in an empty Gatorade bottle...) I said how on my first date with H, he went to the bathroom a bunch, and I'd later read an article in Cosmo that said if a guy goes to the bathroom a bunch, he's probably doing cocaine. T: "When was that article from, the '80s?" Me: "Nope!"

T: "So, did you want to talk about anything else today?" Me: "No, just peeing!" We both laughed. Then I said I guess we could talk about stuff from his email. He asked what stuff specifically. I said maybe what he'd said about how I see relationships. In that part of the email, he'd said: "I'm beginning to think that feeling trust and durability in your relationships are tied to predictability and feeling confident that you understand what it takes on your end to keep things positive. Your email is another reminder that you do not have much confidence in your ability, and that you feel a lot of insecurity that you'll mess things up." In session, I said I thought that seemed fairly accurate.

He said something about rules with people. Me: "Yeah, it's like I've mentioned to you I think before, how I wish people came with rulebooks or, as I put it to ex-MC, style guides. And like if I followed the rules exactly, then things would be OK. But I know people don't work like that..." T: "No, they don't." Me: "And I guess...it's not always the same even with the same person." T: "No, it can depend on the circumstance." Me: "Yeah...so it can be really complicated."

T: "I get the sense much of this came from your mom. You'd talk about how she said you had to follow certain rules with friends." Me: "Yeah, like if I canceled plans on them, they might not invite me to do anything again." T: "Yes. I think some of that came from her own anxiety about your and your relationships." Me: "Hm, like she was worried about my maintaining friendships?" T: "Yes, like that."

T: "I know I'm probably going to be diagnosing your mother many times without having met her." Me: "I'd love for you to be in a room with her to see what you could get out of her, but I doubt she'd talk about it." T: "I don't know. But I think she clearly has anxiety. And if the two of you were in an anxiety competition, I bet it would be fairly similar levels." Me: "What would an anxiety competition look like?" T laughed. "Good question! OK, over here, we have contestant number 1, LT." Me (attempting to imitate panic): "Aaaagggggghhh!" We both laughed.

I said how she'd commented at one point how if I had a best friend, I wouldn't need a therapist. T kinda shook his head at that one. I said how her comment had sort of made me feel like a failure in that I wasn't able to maintain my friendship with my former best friend, while my mom has had the same best friend for like 40 years. T said how having a "best friend" isn't necessarily as common when you get older, unless one was lucky enough to hold onto a close friendship from when they were younger. He asked what I thought made my former best friend a "best friend." I said I guessed that we were the first one the other turned to for stuff going on in our lives, we could talk about anything, that I knew I could call her at 3 a.m., etc. I said I guessed I had friends now I could call or message at 3 am--wouldn't be a big deal for the British ones, because 8 am there! He asked if I had different friends I talked to about different things. I said yes, both with online and local friends. He said that's more common as you get older and there's nothing wrong with that, how there might not just be one person I go to for everything. And that was OK.

He said he hated that one comment like that from my mom could make me feel so bad about myself, that it could have that effect on me. He noted some other comments she'd made, too. I said I also hated that. He said he hoped I could eventually get to the point where I'd basically just think, "Oh, Mom..." and not be affected like that by her comments. I said I wanted that as well.

I said that I feel a therapist has a very different role than a friend. Me: "Well, beyond the fact that I pay you. With therapy, it's OK if the vast majority of the time is all about me." T: "Really, it should all be about you. Anything of mine that I share, it should be in service to you and your therapy." Me: "OK, but in a friendship, I'd have to deal with all of your stuff, too." T: "Right, there's an expectation of reciprocity in a friendship. Also, there's the confidentiality aspect in here." Me: "True, I hadn't thought of that. So I can tell you anything." T: "Yes, and you can discuss taboo topics." Me: "Yeah, like I might not want to talk about (certain triggery thing) with a friend." T: "Or if you did, they might not give you the reaction you want or need. I'm trained in how to react to certain things." Me: "Yes, the psychological expertise, too. So, a lot of differences."

In that conversation, it was like we addressed T's "I'm not your friend" comment from the previous session without really mentioning it. That comment of his was more about what he couldn't give me; this conversation was more about what he *can* give me that maybe a friend can't, which I think is more what I need to hear and focus on (that didn't occur to me until after the session, when I thought "I should have brought up that comment," then realized I sorta had, in a way).

We were almost over time, so I got out my phone, and we confirmed next week's times. Went over and paid. T, shaking my hand, "Good luck out there!" Me: "Thanks." T: "I'll email you your invoice." (not sure why he said that, he always does). Me: "OK." T: "Take care." Me: "You too."
LonesomeTonight is offline  
 
Hugs from:
ChickenNoodleSoup, Echos Myron redux, SalingerEsme, SlumberKitty
 
Thanks for this!
Anne2.0, Echos Myron redux, Lrad123, SalingerEsme
velcro003
Elder
 
velcro003's Avatar
 
Member Since Oct 2008
Posts: 7,361
15
25 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Oct 21, 2018 at 12:19 PM
  #265
that's a great session, LT
velcro003 is offline  
 
Thanks for this!
LonesomeTonight
Anonymous56789
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Oct 21, 2018 at 01:47 PM
  #266
We had a significant memory surface last session and I want to get other's take on dissociation related stuff and how therapy impacts your sense of self in that regard. I could really use someone who can relate to talk to.

The sibling who tortured me
Possible trigger:
. I think I was only 3 or 4, it manifested as a body memory at first. I'm realizing now a whole part has the memories of not just a one time event that's in the trigger box, but I think over a more considerable period of time. It came out at our session the week prior to our last session and said "we have to be really smart to find a way to escape" and something about being smart and tricking him. It explained so many things.

Since then, I almost got flooded with content but am fine now; in fact now better than before. But now I'm having some identify issues and am wondering how others experience it. I never could remember much of my childhood, but I have a sense now that more of my parts held/hold memories than I realize rather than having some kind of 'amnesia'. I also realize that when it gets integrated, what usually felt like depersonalization was actually experiencing another part of myself that I wasn't aware of before. Another sibling once told me that this sibling locked me in his room frequently for a period over months, maybe a year, and no one knew what we were doing in there.

Since that part is integrating, I feel more present rather than being in the future (or past when it comes to therapy). At first I thought it was depersonalization but now it's really just more of me that is present. This is making me think that part held a considerable part of my life rather. Or this trauma was over a long period of time (I have multiple traumas, but this one is the worst and has different aspects than the others.)
 
 
Hugs from:
ChickenNoodleSoup, ElectricManatee, LonesomeTonight, lucozader, unaluna
chihirochild
Magnate
 
chihirochild's Avatar
 
Member Since Feb 2017
Location: North America
Posts: 2,360
7
4,865 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Oct 22, 2018 at 08:12 PM
  #267
Relevant to the IST post I wrote on Friday, this is the email I sent my T yesterday and the response he sent a few hours later. (I think I remember there being a thread for emails but I haven't seen it around for a while so I just stuck them here.)

Hi [HWMNBN],

I’m feeling sort of miserable about therapy and I’m not sure what to do. I know that therapy is not always easy or pleasant, but I’m starting to feel afraid that this misery I’m experiencing isn’t even the productive kind.

If I’ve understood you correctly, my withdrawal and “de-valuing” of the therapeutic relationship results in you feeling more invested and working harder to engage with me. Somehow, though, I don’t feel that from you. It feels to me like our relationship is a bit aloof, like you just plain don’t like me—which is your prerogative, I know, but it still feels like crap (and, I think, makes it difficult for me to trust you with the parts of myself that feel vulnerable, or in talking about things that make me feel ashamed… which, given how precariously balanced my emotional stability is, encompasses just about everything a person might talk about in therapy). I don’t think that I take pleasure in you feeling guilty or concerned about me because I’m some kind of sadist—I think those things are proxies for you caring about me. I can’t tell if you actually feel this negatively towards me, or if I’m having a total failure to mentalize, or if I require a ridiculous amount of warmth and reassurance in order to feel safe.

Regardless, I think the fact that I have difficulty perceiving any positive feelings you might have toward me is contributing to the trouble I’m having in answering the difficult questions you ask. What you experience as passivity feels to me like panic—when you ask, for example, how I might test the people in my life, it feels like something shorts out in my head, like my thoughts scatter and refuse to cohere. It’s not that I’m not trying, [HWMNBN]—it’s just too hard and I can’t, at least not yet.

Anyhow. I don’t know if any of this is helpful to you or not, but there it is.

[chihirochild]

---------------------------------------------------

Hi [chihirochild],

Thank you for sending this along. I am definitely sorry that this has all been so painful for you. That is not what I would hope for in our work together, and I would like to do whatever I can to make this more manageable for you. I agree with you--there is productive discomfort, and then there is the iatrogenic kind. I do not want to be generating the latter.

It sounds like you are experiencing me as disliking you, and as treating you in a cold and uncaring way. In light of this, I can really understand now what makes it so difficult to answer my questions, and to talk with me about these things--if I felt like someone felt this negatively about me, I would certainly not want to allow myself to be vulnerable to this person. I am also really struck to learn this, as this is not consistent with my experience of our relationship. This is making me very interested in what I might be doing to come across in this way, and also if there is anything happening in you that potentially contributes to this as well.

You said last week that you found "questions" helpful in thinking some things out, so I will share a couple that come to my mind when I read your e-mail:

(1) You mentioned feeling miserable and "like crap" with me, and those feelings seem to be related to this experience of me as not liking you or caring about you. But I really would like to understand more about what this perception of me does to you--how it makes you feel emotionally, about yourself, etc. That seems very important here.

(2) I am also interested in the importance for you of me liking and caring about you
-It may seem foolish to ask, but what would this do for you, if you felt this coming from me?
-Also: what would have to be different about me (what I would have to say, to do) for you to feel like I genuinely cared?

Finally, after reading your e-mail and thinking about our session on Friday, I have been wondering if perhaps us delving too deeply into our dynamic is not horribly helpful for you at this point. (I'm not saying this definitively, but I am curious about it). After your meeting with [the program's psychiatrist], once I realized that you were so much more upset with me than I had realized, I think I have been directing our focus there quite a bit, in the hopes that we could use this dynamic in order to help you with your challenges outside of the room. But now I am worried that this could be counterproductive, and that perhaps we should be directing less time to "us" and more time to your relationships/interactions outside of the therapy. This might be less overwhelming, and generate less panic for you. I really do want to be helpful to you, [chihirochild], so as long as we are devoting ourselves to the patterns that are meaningful to your and your challenges, I am open to feedback about what you think is best for you.

Take care,

[HWMNBN]
chihirochild is offline  
 
Hugs from:
Anastasia~, ChickenNoodleSoup, Lemoncake, SalingerEsme, WarmFuzzySocks
 
Thanks for this!
CantExplain, SalingerEsme
LonesomeTonight
Always in This Twilight
 
LonesomeTonight's Avatar
 
Member Since Feb 2015
Location: US
Posts: 20,730 (SuperPoster!)
9
74.9k hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Oct 23, 2018 at 05:03 PM
  #268
T yesterday. He was wearing jeans, which is quite unusual for him, and a pumpkin-colored button-down (very seasonally appropriate!) And boring white socks. And no ring.

We'd pushed the session back a bit (he had later opening) so I'd have more time to recover from a migraine. So we talked about that briefly, as I discussed a few things that I thought may have contributed to it--was a really busy, stressful weekend (part of which involved my parents).

I said how part of me wanted to talk about a particular topic, certain details of which I'd never shared with anyone before. But that I was also sort of afraid to. Because I felt ashamed about it. T: "It sounds like you want to talk about it." Me: "Yeah...oh, and it's not about you!" T smiled and said, "It sounds like you're afraid I'll run screaming from the room if it's about me." Me: "Well..." I think I gave a few other disclaimers, which he commented on, then went ahead with it.

It's something really personal, so not going into the actual topic or details here. But he handled it well, listening, not seeming to judge me for it, asking appropriate questions.

The conversation eventually shifted to be about my relationship with H. I said how at times it feels like there's something blocking my connection to him. T said he gets the sense that I want more from him than he's maybe capable of giving. Including the level of emotional holding that I seem to want from H, or from anyone really. I said that made sense. Me: "I just...tend to have this romantic vision of what love is supposed to be like." T: "Yes, I get that sense from you." Me: "But I know it's not realistic...to want that much from one person. I mean, I guess there are some marriages where they get everything they need emotionally, intellectually, sexually..."

T: "Some author--I forget the name--said something like, 'If you marry Steve, you get certain positives along with certain problems. If you marry Mike, you get a different set of positives and a different set of problems. But there are always the problems there along with the positives, it just depends on who you pick which ones of each you get." Me: "Yeah, that makes sense. It's just, like I said, having that whole idealized vision of a relationship, wanting that kind of connection..."

T: "It can be especially common when you're younger, like teen and college age, for people to equate sexual connection with emotional connection. Like, you have your body part inside someone else's body, and it's literally the closest you can possibly get to another person physically, so it can feel that way emotionally, too." Me [Thrown off slightly by that description of sex]: ".......... Yeah, like I think of my college boyfriend, where it felt like we were really compatible sexually and just felt connected. I mean, I guess he was only the second guy I was with, so it seemed more intense..." T: "Wait, who was only the second guy you were with?" "College guy [name]. Not H, I've been with other people before him." T: "OK, that's what I thought you'd said before."

Me: "But I wonder at times...if I'm chasing that feeling with people. Like maybe it's why I would switch back and forth from dating the sorts of guys I'm naturally drawn to, like the artists and musicians, who I'm attracted to, but are less reliable. Like maybe there's emotional connection, but they also have their own issues there... And then to more reliable people, where we got along well, but the attraction wasn't there at the same level. So then... But...that was a feeling from who I was back then, when I was 21, so...maybe it's just different now." T talked about how marriage/living together is different, how you deal with the socks on the floor and bad morning breath and things like that. T said something about a person seeming ideal, but they're not. No clue why I pulled this example, but I mentioned Hugh Grant, how maybe it seemed like he had this perfect life, married to a model, but then he was caught hooking up with a prostitute in a car. T: "Yes, good example. And Hugh Grant probably has bad breath and a hairy butt." I laughed. "Yeah."

I said that I felt we needed to spend more time talking about stuff with my H in there in general, and T agreed. I said I knew we needed to stop in a minute, then we started talking about something else related to original topic for a few minutes. Then T glanced at the clock and was like, "Oh! I'm going to make myself late!" I looked and saw it was on the hour (still had to schedule and pay) and reflexively said, "Sorry about that." T: "No, it's not your fault, it's on me to keep the time." I said we could just schedule on email or something, but he said fine to do it then. Confirmed Thursday, then scheduled for next Monday and Thursday for usual time. T: "I'll make sure to just block out that time going forward for you." Me: "Thanks."

Went over to pay, as we were talking about him rescheduling me till later that day. He said he'd had slot open anyway, that all he did was shift his paperwork time to earlier. I said something about how maybe he wished he'd just done his paperwork this hour instead. T: "Never!" He shook my hand and said, "Good luck to you out there." Me: "Thanks. You too." I sorta waved "bye" for whatever reason, then headed out.
LonesomeTonight is offline  
 
Hugs from:
ChickenNoodleSoup
 
Thanks for this!
Anne2.0
DP_2017
Grand Magnate
 
DP_2017's Avatar
 
Member Since Aug 2017
Location: A house
Posts: 4,412
6
665 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Oct 23, 2018 at 05:51 PM
  #269
Lol LT, you remember everything about what T wears. I rarely remember what color shirt mine has.

Sounds good overall though. Glad you are trusting the relationship more

__________________
Grief is the price you pay for love.
DP_2017 is offline  
 
Thanks for this!
LonesomeTonight
LonesomeTonight
Always in This Twilight
 
LonesomeTonight's Avatar
 
Member Since Feb 2015
Location: US
Posts: 20,730 (SuperPoster!)
9
74.9k hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Oct 23, 2018 at 06:34 PM
  #270
Quote:
Originally Posted by DP_2017 View Post
Lol LT, you remember everything about what T wears. I rarely remember what color shirt mine has.

Sounds good overall though. Glad you are trusting the relationship more

Thanks! And he pays attention to what I wear, too, will comment on if I'm wearing new shoes or new necklace (and is generally accurate). Yesterday he asked if a bracelet I was playing with that I often wear to session has a particular significance to me or if it's just a good fidget toy (it's elastic). I said good fidget toy!
LonesomeTonight is offline  
LabRat27
Poohbah
 
LabRat27's Avatar
 
Member Since Mar 2018
Location: CA
Posts: 1,009
6
2,354 hugs
given
Default Oct 24, 2018 at 04:19 AM
  #271
(Self harm tw in the last two paragraphs)

I asked him if he believed me. I was worried he'd doubt me because I'm telling him that none of the therapists/judge/lawyers believed that living with my father was detrimental to my wellbeing.
He said he believed me. He gave an example of a case he spoke in court about when he was a post doc where he testified that the father was super abusive and the daughter still had to go back.
I told him I don't always believe myself.
That I know how bad human beings are at memory. That if everyone else disagrees with you you're probably wrong.
But I pointed out that logically I know my brother and mom had the same experience and were just as damaged by it.

He asked why this was coming up now. I said it was the internal conflict about whether I was "allowed" to believe that my beliefs about myself were distorted because of this stuff and that's where they came from. Because the alternative is that I believe that I'm a bad weak pathetic person because it's true. And so I have to be able to trust that it's from this childhood stuff, otherwise it feels like I'm trying to not blame myself for something that's my fault.

Weirdly I actually looked at him for like half the session. It was nice. I felt more connected. It was different.

He was pushing me to do what I felt was too much too quickly. When I push in one direction my brain pushes back, and I'm worried that if I try to do too much proactively being nice to myself that there's going to be backlash and it will end badly.

At some point he had a small smile and looked slightly amused and I asked him why and he said something like that he gets reminded that I'm going to do things my way at my own pace or something like that. I don't remember his exact wording. He wasn't saying I was stubborn exactly, like it wasn't in a bad way. His wording wasn't really what stood out to me, it was the way he said it, like there was some fondness in his voice or something.
It sounds weird but it meant a lot. It made me feel special. Because he was smiling to himself, not for my benefit, and it seemed really genuine and kind of spontaneous. It was also a kind of rare glimpse into his emotions.

I don't really understand it. He deals with the worst parts of me twice a week. I'm moody and unpredictable and resentful and emotional and irrational and I'm sure I'm really frustrating.
I kind of want to ask him how he can not hate me. But that feels manipulative like I'm trying to get him to say nice things.

I was wearing a shorter sleeved shirt than usual, a fitted women's t-shirt instead of a men's shirt or something, because I need to do laundry. My upper arms are pretty much covered in literally countless self harm scars that are hard to miss, and it tends to be something most people are shocked (or horrified) by. As I walked out I saw the person I assume was his next patient, a woman in maybe her early 40s, glance at me as I walked out and I saw the moment of recognition when she noticed and I was kind of amused by that. I don't usually pay attention because I forget about them, but occasionally I do notice someone else noticing.

I don't know why I care at all in this specific instance or why it gave me that small sense of satisfaction. Maybe I want to seem deserving of his time? Maybe it was a possessive thing? There are other kinds of offices in the hallway so it wouldn't necessarily be obvious that I was coming from his office/therapy. Or maybe I just like attention, who knows?
Thinking about it now, maybe I liked the idea of it being clear that I'm doing longer term fairly intense/deep therapy, that I'm not just a casual short term patient he's helping with work stress or something. I like the idea of her thinking about me getting his attention and him caring about me.
Ugh.
LabRat27 is offline  
 
Hugs from:
ChickenNoodleSoup, LonesomeTonight, lucozader, SalingerEsme, SlumberKitty, WarmFuzzySocks
 
Thanks for this!
Anne2.0, LonesomeTonight, lucozader, SalingerEsme
junkDNA
Comfy Sedation
 
junkDNA's Avatar
 
Member Since Sep 2012
Location: the woods
Posts: 19,301 (SuperPoster!)
11
8,149 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Oct 24, 2018 at 05:51 AM
  #272
had a terrible session with t

__________________
junkDNA is offline  
 
Hugs from:
Argonautomobile, captgut, ChickenNoodleSoup, Echos Myron redux, LabRat27, LonesomeTonight, Lrad123, lucozader, SlumberKitty, unaluna
Echos Myron redux
Magnate
 
Member Since Apr 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 2,157
6
1,833 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Oct 24, 2018 at 07:16 AM
  #273
Quote:
Originally Posted by octoberful View Post
Looks like no one can relate. It's really hard to ask for support and then be alone in it all. I try to be supportive of people here. I just don't understand. I can see why others don't post vulnerable stuff, but I thought that was what this forum was for. I must not fit some kind of criteria required but am not going to try anymore because I have too much on my plate. But if I post I'm upset my T didnt email me I'll get tons of support?
I think threads like this get variable amounts of responses. If you start a thread you will def get responses and hopefully the support you're looking for. Sorry you're feeling unsupported, I am sure it's not anyone's intention.
Echos Myron redux is offline  
lucozader
Most Dangerous
 
lucozader's Avatar
 
Member Since Feb 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 2,920
7
7,642 hugs
given
Default Oct 24, 2018 at 10:17 AM
  #274
I saw my new T today. He seemed kinda nervous. I was kinda nervous too.

I tried to give him a rundown of all the s**t that has happened in the last few years. He said it sounded traumatic, but he was stumbling over his words a bit.

We talked about him being the same age as me and my complicated feelings about that. Also about him having such a similar approach to me, so that it's almost like being counselled by myself. How there's no mystical magic trick in it, I know exactly what he's doing. And that's okay. But there's a part of me that wishes he could save me, fix me.

I talked about my issues with my heart, and the prospect of having surgery. I cried a fair bit, and when I cried I missed T2 so much that it hurt. He asked what was going on for me in those moments, and I told him (that I was missing T2), and he said that's what he'd suspected. He seemed to understand.

I felt irritated with him a few times. He stated the obvious a bit. He asked me what my crying was about a couple of times and a part of me wanted to say "I'm crying because I'm sad, you f***ing idiot."

I also sort of felt like telling him - part of me felt like telling him - to go away, to f*** off, because I don't want him. I just want T2.

But he doesn't deserve any of that. He's lovely, really, and I think I felt safe with him and held by him. He'll do.

I know I had similar feelings when I started with T2. So there is hope. Plenty of it. Just... FFS this really sucks.

He said something at the end like "I'm glad we've started our work together" or something and I appreciate the sentiment and all but it didn't seem that genuine, I guess I didn't believe he really meant it.

Oh, also, I didn't feel that attracted to him... which is a good sign, I guess. I don't want to fall in love with him. Been there...
lucozader is offline  
 
Hugs from:
Argonautomobile, ChickenNoodleSoup, chihirochild, Echos Myron redux, LabRat27, LonesomeTonight, SalingerEsme, SlumberKitty, unaluna, WarmFuzzySocks
SalingerEsme
Grand Poohbah
 
SalingerEsme's Avatar
 
Member Since Jul 2017
Location: Neverland
Posts: 1,805
6
4,957 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Oct 24, 2018 at 11:00 AM
  #275
This is cuts to the quick of where I struggle with psychotherapy when I do struggle. How hard would it be for him to tell you he does care? I know they are trained this way, to never gratify and not share their feelings, but it has a manipulative or withholding feel.

Hi [chihirochild],

Thank you for sending this along. I am definitely sorry that this has all been so painful for you. That is not what I would hope for in our work together, and I would like to do whatever I can to make this more manageable for you. I agree with you--there is productive discomfort, and then there is the iatrogenic kind. I do not want to be generating the latter.

It sounds like you are experiencing me as disliking you, and as treating you in a cold and uncaring way. In light of this, I can really understand now what makes it so difficult to answer my questions, and to talk with me about these things--if I felt like someone felt this negatively about me, I would certainly not want to allow myself to be vulnerable to this person. I am also really struck to learn this, as this is not consistent with my experience of our relationship. This is making me very interested in what I might be doing to come across in this way, and also if there is anything happening in you that potentially contributes to this as well.

You said last week that you found "questions" helpful in thinking some things out, so I will share a couple that come to my mind when I read your e-mail:

(1) You mentioned feeling miserable and "like crap" with me, and those feelings seem to be related to this experience of me as not liking you or caring about you. But I really would like to understand more about what this perception of me does to you--how it makes you feel emotionally, about yourself, etc. That seems very important here.

(2) I am also interested in the importance for you of me liking and caring about you
-It may seem foolish to ask, but what would this do for you, if you felt this coming from me?
-Also: what would have to be different about me (what I would have to say, to do) for you to feel like I genuinely cared?

Finally, after reading your e-mail and thinking about our session on Friday, I have been wondering if perhaps us delving too deeply into our dynamic is not horribly helpful for you at this point. (I'm not saying this definitively, but I am curious about it). After your meeting with [the program's psychiatrist], once I realized that you were so much more upset with me than I had realized, I think I have been directing our focus there quite a bit, in the hopes that we could use this dynamic in order to help you with your challenges outside of the room. But now I am worried that this could be counterproductive, and that perhaps we should be directing less time to "us" and more time to your relationships/interactions outside of the therapy. This might be less overwhelming, and generate less panic for you. I really do want to be helpful to you, [chihirochild], so as long as we are devoting ourselves to the patterns that are meaningful to your and your challenges, I am open to feedback about what you think is best for you.

Take care,

[HWMNBN][/I][/QUOTE]

__________________
Living things don’t all require/ light in the same degree. Louise Gluck
SalingerEsme is offline  
 
Hugs from:
WarmFuzzySocks
 
Thanks for this!
chihirochild, SlumberKitty
ChickenNoodleSoup
Grand Poohbah
 
Member Since Apr 2017
Location: In a land far far away
Posts: 1,574
7
1,304 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Oct 24, 2018 at 11:15 AM
  #276
First session of the week today. After saying hi, I gave my T my blood test results and ECG results. He looked at them, commented on how my red blood cells were a bit low, mentioned how that can be connected to women bleeding a lot (which was a bit weird) and how all other things looked okay. Then he asked me how my time between sessions had been.

I started off by saying I had been sick the past few days, just a cold, nothing bad, but still. I feel like every time I'm sick I tend to be more calm, like my body can't deal with being sick plus emotions. T said he had noticed the same with himself. I mentioned having a lot of mood swings, as per usual. Just before going to get my blood work done, I was at my parent's house and after leaving from there, I felt so sad I almost started crying on the streets. T asked what made me so sad, but I didn't feel like telling him.

Then I told him how I told my mom about starting medication. He asked why I told her, I said she told me early on when I started therapy that I should tell her in case he wants to prescribe anything. And on top of that, she's a pharmacist so maybe she has some useful input. He wanted to know what her reply was, but I didn't know, since I was too scared to read her email. He asked me what my own thoughts were on it, to which I said that I agreed to try it, so obviously I'm fine with it. He said most therapists would probably say it's worth a try, but some might have a different opinion. I said 'there's always different opinions on each topic' which he thought was funny, probably since that's what he always says when I only see a single option to something.
We started talking more about my mom. I mentioned how she's searching for a new job. She's currently working at a hospital and they have lots of issues with narcotics. They seem to disappear all the time, yet the president doesn't care. And of course if there were an inspection, the pharmacists would be to blame. She also doesn't feel appreciated there. So now she's looking for new options and she decided to apply for a position at a psychiatric hospital. Which I think is kind of weird, given that she was never interested in my problems when I lived with her. He asked me what I meant by that. I said well, when I was for example scared, she would just say 'oh, you don't need to be scared'. He wanted to know whether she maybe mirrored my fear, wanted to know why I'm scared or anything like that, but no, she just didn't think there was a reason to be scared so she said I shouldn't be. He said that happens to a lot of people. He asked whether she was ever scared herself, whether I could see that in her? I said no, but she was angry a lot, and sad a couple of times. He asked what being angry meant, what would she do, would she scream around? It was actually rather passive aggressive. She'd change her tone, blame me for everything I'd have done, and not accept if I got angry as well. He asked for how long she was usually angry, which was maybe a few minutes. I usually went to my room and after coming back out she was fine again. It didn't last for days or something like that.

We discussed me being scared more. Almost every night as a kid I was scared that my parents would just somehow disappear. So I'd ask them whether they'd watch me/protect me and be there when I woke up. And they'd always just say 'yes'. They never asked why I was scared or something like that. And when traveling, I always was scared our plane would crash. In those situations they'd just say 'there's no need to be scared'.

At some point T said how we're not trying to place blame in therapy. I laughed and told him how when I had just started therapy, my mom asked me how it was going. The previous session he had just told me that we are not blaming people here. And she asked 'am I already to blame for everything?'. So I thought it was kind of funny. He said that's a very normal response for parents, if your kid needs help for mental issues, you might think it's your own fault and wonder what you should have done differently.

After some silence, he asked me whether he should write me a prescription for meds. I nodded, so he told me again about how I should take them, and I asked some questions regarding interactions with other drugs.

Somewhere here we also started talking about how I like to inform myself on my issues. He mentioned how some clients don't inform themselves and some even don't want to hear about it from him. I was kind of irritated by that, why would they not want to know what they are struggling with? I mentioned reading a lot of scientific papers and books on the topic, he asked what books I had been reading. I didn't remember the titles, but mentioned that one of them was actually for people close to somebody struggling with BPD. My partner doesn't feel like reading it, so I decided to read it and tell him the important stuff instead. T found that kind of funny.

Then, he wrote down the last parts of the prescription and went to copy it. I had a chance to look at the books in his office since he was gone (I could look at them at any time, but they are next to him, so it would mean also looking at him, which is hard enough without trying to read book titles). I memorized some to have some more reading material.

Then he came back, gave me my prescription and mentioned how he was glad I texted him regarding whether I'd have time on Friday. I have some interviews that day and didn't know whether I could make it. At first I assumed I could not, but then the organizers changed stuff around and I will be able to go at my regular time. So first I had texted him I couldn't make it and then I had to change that statement. He said how he hadn't scheduled anybody else for that time, but that he was glad I told him else he might have.

We said good bye and I left. For the first time ever, I ran into someone while leaving. And older guy reeking of smoke. I really hope my T didn't have to deal with that guy, the smell was really intolerable.
ChickenNoodleSoup is offline  
 
Hugs from:
LonesomeTonight
 
Thanks for this!
LabRat27, LonesomeTonight, SlumberKitty
Lrad123
Poohbah
 
Member Since Nov 2017
Location: United States
Posts: 1,332
6
372 hugs
given
Default Oct 24, 2018 at 02:34 PM
  #277
I told T that I thought about no-showing to send a big “screw you” message to him, but ultimately thought that wouldn’t be effective (thanks PC). For those of you not aware, T decided last week to no longer reply to my emails after about a year of replying. I said that I had felt angry and hurt, but was starting not not care as much and wasn’t sure if it was because my feelings were changing or because I didn’t want to deal with conflict. T apologized for the way he went about deciding not to respond to emails last week, particularly the fact that he made the decision unilaterally without talking to me first. He said he would do it differently if he could do it again. Said he thinks I would have felt hurt even if he had done it differently, but it still would have been better. He said our email relationship is creating distance because I don’t bring those thoughts and feelings in the room once I have sent them in email. Sometimes I don’t even remember what I’ve emailed or am not willing to discuss it if it feels vulnerable. He said he felt we were acting something out with our email relationship and that needed to change. It was nothing I said in emails and nothing I did wrong. Apparently I’m not “too much,” but I guess we’ll have to see about that. He said he thinks I’m afraid to bring emotion into the room because I don’t want to overwhelm him or burden him. Not sure about that.

I made it through today but worried I won’t have anything to say next week. I think I’ll plan on journaling and just hope that turns into something. I really wish I knew how to feel emotion when I’m with him.
Lrad123 is offline  
 
Hugs from:
LabRat27, LonesomeTonight, SalingerEsme, skeksi, SlumberKitty
 
Thanks for this!
Anne2.0
Patientgirl
Member
 
Member Since Feb 2016
Location: Far far away
Posts: 27
8
53 hugs
given
Default Oct 24, 2018 at 06:49 PM
  #278
I was asking t why I didn't have close friends.
He said "we are not close enough for 5 years too (I've been in therapy for 5 yrs). So there is something from your side. For example when I used *an f word* you were hurt. So maybe people are afraid that they maybe hurt you."
In my social context it is not appropriate to use such a word. And the idea that this (from our first year of therapy) was pulling us apart when I needed him closer makes me so sad. Oh, after 4 years...
Besides it made me so jelouse. Perhaps there are some people who are close enough and I'm not one of them...
And therapy was something I thought I was good at. Apparantly I'm not...
Patientgirl is offline  
 
Hugs from:
ChickenNoodleSoup, chihirochild, LabRat27, LonesomeTonight, Lrad123, SalingerEsme, SlumberKitty
Amyjay
Magnate
 
Member Since Mar 2017
Location: Underground
Posts: 2,439
7
692 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Oct 25, 2018 at 03:14 AM
  #279
This week was weird. We were disconnected and on autopilot for much of it. Night times were all about nightmares and some child part sobbing us out of sleep. We found ourselves in different places after lost time this week, not something that is always so pronounced with us. Yesterday I "found myself" pretty much having a tantrum in a toy store. I was supposed to be somewhere else at the time. Yeah, I don't know either.

We were looking forward to seeing T today, hoping maybe to connect with self a bit more, hoping to feel a bit safer and not so lost and tossed around on a stormy sea for a while. But it was very dissociated. I know different parts were there, I know we spent part of the sesson rapid switching, around and around, with too much conflict and confusion and fear for any one part to hold on for too long.

I feel like I missed therapy today. That I didn't get to go, I didn't get to ground, I didn't get to be myself. The body was there.

I am filled with scared.
Amyjay is offline  
 
Hugs from:
CantExplain, ChickenNoodleSoup, ElectricManatee, LabRat27, LonesomeTonight, SalingerEsme, SlumberKitty, WarmFuzzySocks
ChickenNoodleSoup
Grand Poohbah
 
Member Since Apr 2017
Location: In a land far far away
Posts: 1,574
7
1,304 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Oct 26, 2018 at 05:31 PM
  #280
Had my second session today. First T asked how my interviews for a new job were going, I was able to get interview slots such that I could go to my session in between two meetings.
I said they were going well. I was surprised about some of the other people applying for positions there, since they all seemed to struggle with getting offers. I've never had that experience, I always seem to just get the jobs I apply for. T was surprised by that, he commented on how I'm usually rather shy and don't open up a lot. I said it's different in a professional setting. I'm really good at acting and knowing what the other person wants to hear. We talked about how I did acting during a lot of my language courses in high school and was pretty good at it. And I know how to convince people of things too.

He asked what helps against getting emotional in certain situations besides grounding techniques and managing strong emotions. I told him how I like to distance myself from whatever makes me emotional. But if it's a person and that person tries to suggest some distance themselves, it's the end of the world. We discussed some other strategies.

We then switched topic to how I'll have to travel back to the interview site after the session. I was scared of that since it involved a train station at which I
Possible trigger:
I frequently have flashbacks to it without being there. T suggested it might be a good idea to go there. He asked whether I wanted to talk about it or no? I said yes. We discussed how I can tell myself during the flashbacks that it's not currently happening and that while I had these emotions at some point in my life, it's not the only thing I currently am.

I became scared and he asked whether we wanted to switch topics to practice some of things we discussed earlier? I told him about meeting my parents for dinner this weekend and how I was worried they'd bring up my mental health. I don't talk to them about it much and on the one hand would like them to understand but on the other hand feel there's some really private things about it which I don't want to discuss.

I started to get scared again and had a difficult time breathing. He asked whether I wanted to look at him for a bit, so I did, about three times. His eyes were very kind each time, even though I only looked for a split second every time. During this he also observed me looking at the wall instead of him, so he told me it was fine to look at his shoes as well. He then started to describe them as "Blue sneakers" and said "I wear those every time I work". Felt a bit weird to say "Yes, I've noticed about 1.5 years ago and have written down every single instance where you wore different shoes".

We were almost at the point where I had to leave, so we scheduled for next week and said good bye.
ChickenNoodleSoup is offline  
 
Hugs from:
LabRat27, LonesomeTonight, SlumberKitty, unaluna, WarmFuzzySocks
 
Thanks for this!
LonesomeTonight
Closed Thread
attentionThis is an old thread. You probably should not post your reply to it, as the original poster is unlikely to see it.

Thread Tools
Display Modes



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:12 AM.
Powered by vBulletin® — Copyright © 2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.



 

My Support Forums

My Support Forums is the online community that was originally begun as the Psych Central Forums in 2001. It now runs as an independent self-help support group community for mental health, personality, and psychological issues and is overseen by a group of dedicated, caring volunteers from around the world.

 

Helplines and Lifelines

The material on this site is for informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis or treatment provided by a qualified health care provider.

Always consult your doctor or mental health professional before trying anything you read here.