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Default Aug 29, 2018 at 07:33 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by daisydid View Post
"I said I wasn't hurt. I was angry."
I discovered that I use to get angry to avoid facing the fact that I had been hurt.

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Default Aug 30, 2018 at 03:05 AM
  #62
I saw my therapist two days ago. It was my fourth session. We've come to the conclusion that my biggest problem is my fear to relaps into depression again and that I have chronic anxiety issues. It is a very good therapist I have to say. My solution would be to build out a better social network, to find something meaningfull to do every day (work), and to learn to deal with my (negative) cognitions.

Building a social network is difficult for me because I find it very difficult to make friends, to meet new people, to tell things about myself to strangers. The anxiety, it's inhibiting. For now it's also difficult because I'm out of a job for the next few weeks. My cognitions are very bad now, constantly thinking worthless about myself. Comparing myself with everyone else and finding myself inferior. I really hate myself right now. I have beent taking medication to feel better, but there are limitations of what I can take.
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Default Aug 30, 2018 at 05:13 AM
  #63
I'm so glad you connected with your therapist, and feel that real connection. It takes a good measure of time for therapy to work, so the short term now sounds tough, but the longer term seems hopeful. I hope the next few weeks pass safely and quickly, so that your T haas time to get to work with you on the goals.

Did you listen to the Ted Talk by Andrew Solomon about his depression? I also like Shep Nuland's ( Dr. Sherwin Nuland ) Ted Talk on having electroshock therapy in the middle of his career as a great surgeon, and coming back to win the Puitzer Prize for the book How We Die after having almost zero hope of recovery.

For some reason, when I feel horrible, it consoles me to listen to people who have hit bottom and become okay again.

Do you like dogs at all? I think having a friendly dog almost makes human friends inevitable. You can go to training class and hikes, and there's already a bond and a conversation.

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Default Aug 30, 2018 at 08:48 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by SalingerEsme View Post
I'm so glad you connected with your therapist, and feel that real connection. It takes a good measure of time for therapy to work, so the short term now sounds tough, but the longer term seems hopeful. I hope the next few weeks pass safely and quickly, so that your T haas time to get to work with you on the goals.

Did you listen to the Ted Talk by Andrew Solomon about his depression? I also like Shep Nuland's ( Dr. Sherwin Nuland ) Ted Talk on having electroshock therapy in the middle of his career as a great surgeon, and coming back to win the Puitzer Prize for the book How We Die after having almost zero hope of recovery.

For some reason, when I feel horrible, it consoles me to listen to people who have hit bottom and become okay again.

Do you like dogs at all? I think having a friendly dog almost makes human friends inevitable. You can go to training class and hikes, and there's already a bond and a conversation.
I love Andrew Solomon- I think he is the most articulate speaker I've heard. There's also one particular youtuber Noah who posts videos under the username bignoknow, who talks about his struggles with clinical depression.

YouTube

YouTube

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Default Aug 30, 2018 at 11:24 AM
  #65
An epic account of Monday's session:

Had my first post-holiday session on Monday. I usually see T on Thursday evenings but he'd suggested that we reschedule to the Monday this week because I'd been lamenting the fact that I wouldn't see him for twenty-one days. So it was eighteen instead.

I was pretty certain that I was the only client he saw that day, and the first client he'd seen after his holiday. That felt kind of weird. I felt kind of bad for being so needy.
As I was waiting at the door I heard the clatter of plates in the front room, someone clearing the table I guess, and when I went in I could smell food. I'm not sure what it was but it smelt pretty good.

We went in and sat down and T said that he had his brother and brother's girlfriend staying, so I might hear them. I said that was okay - although last time his brother was there he was coughing a lot which was annoying. There was some confusion about when that was…

T pointed out that I'd been working on a bank holiday (I'd had to make our appointment an hour later because of work) and I said that I've always worked on bank holidays so I don't really understand them - they're meaningless to me. I used to work in a pub so if anything they just meant more work - a busy night on a Sunday.

We talked about the fact that we'd rescheduled to make the break shorter. I said I was glad to be there but also bothered that it'd be another ten days before I saw him again. He took the hint and said we could have a session on Thursday too if I wanted (in fact, he spoke more generally and made it clear that extra sessions were an option.) I told him that I had a hospital appointment the next day and so (to process that) I would probably like to see him on Thursday too. He said I could see how things went and let him know. I agreed to that, even though I knew perfectly well that I would want to do it. This will be the first time we'll ever have arranged an extra session. I can't really afford it, but f*** it. I'm doing a few extra shifts this week.

I said I’d spent the first week that he’d been away feeling bad about some of the things I’d said in the last session. I’d talked about the things I look for when I’m looking for a therapist online, and the things that I will automatically count them out for, and I’d said that if their directory profile or website is badly spelt or punctuated or generally badly written then I won’t consider them. I had been quite scathing about it. I told him that I regretted that, and I was worried he'd think I was a s***ty person. I said I wanted to clarify that I don't have a problem with people not being able to write or spell very well in general - everyone has different things that they're good and bad at and that's okay with me. It's just that I expect a certain level of care when it's someone's professional profile I'm looking at, and I think if they're not great at writing they should get someone to proofread it for them. Not that hard!

T said he hadn't felt that I was being a s***ty person. He said he'd been struck by how seriously I take looking for a therapist and how important it is to me that they're right for me. I didn't disagree with that appraisal…

I laughed and said “I didn't even get on to telling you about the next stage!”, then I told him about how I look all my potential therapists up on social media, and if they have “eight thousand f***ing pictures of them and their family, or them and their friends, or them up a mountain, or whatever” then they can't be my therapist. T looked slightly worried and asked if he showed up on social media. I told him that all that shows up for him is a picture of a lizard. He took a second to think about that and then his face lit up - “oh, the green one?” - I said yes, and that he'd passed that test just fine, I love the lizard picture. He said that he loves it too. It was weird to finally get that out in the open, and his reaction was… adorable. He seemed pleased that I appreciate it!

At some point in this discussion he also briefly mentioned his own experience of looking for a therapist and finding one with a photograph on their website that looked like “a mugshot of one of the Kray twins”. That made me laugh a lot. I have also come across some really, really bad pictures.

This led quite smoothly onto my current attempts at finding a new therapist. I told T that I'd met with two while he'd been away - S the first week, and C the second. He asked how it had gone with them. I said that S lived in one of those ridiculous mansions out on the edge of town, and described how she’d led me up a palatial staircase to get to the therapy room. I said I’d found that off-putting, and T seemed to understand. I said that she was… okay, that we’d got on alright, but when I came out all I could think was how much I missed him. I said I couldn’t really imagine working with her.

Then I told him about C. First of all, after quietly saying to myself “am I going to say this?” I admitted that he has the same name as… “certain other previous therapists of mine…” This was the first time I'd ever said T1's actual name (even if I did it in a roundabout way) - I have always referred to him by the initial C. It was a relief to do it actually, and it was the second long-hidden thing to be brought into the open during that session. T actually seemed slightly relieved by it too, and amused at the way I'd done it.

Then I explained how I’d seen him doing a workshop back in November, thought he was great and had him in mind as a potential future supervisor. How I hadn't originally thought of him when searching for a new T, but actually he fits all the criteria really well. I described him pretty much the same as I described him in a post here - intelligent, eloquent, genuine, empathic… and lovely. I said I was pretty certain that he was the right therapist for me, except perhaps for the fact that he might be… too lovely.

T asked what I meant by that and I explained that, given my feelings for T1 (very intense erotic transference), it seemed like a risk to choose to see someone who I found to be so likeable and attractive. T said that if those kinds of feelings did surface again, perhaps I would be able to work with them this time and properly process them - hopefully it would go very differently to the way it did with T1, and that could actually be a really good thing. I agreed, and added that I thought C was very, very different to T1 in his approach and manner - almost the opposite in fact. So things would surely progress differently.

I also talked about finding out C's age (he is exactly the same age as me) and what that had stirred up for me. T thought that this might be another good opportunity for me to work through some stuff. He mentioned at one point (when I'd been talking about seeing the dates that C attended university on his LinkedIn page) that he started his counselling training when he was 49. I think that would mean that he turned 60 this year.

I noted that C is a decade ahead of me, career-wise, and T commented that he started his training remarkably early. I agreed, rolling my eyes jealously. I felt like T joined me briefly in being annoyed at how perfect he is - though maybe I projected that!

T said that he's really pleased that I've found someone who seems to be right for me, and he sounded like he really meant it. This felt bittersweet for me… part of me had been worried that he would think seeing C is a bad idea - I'm not entirely sure why, perhaps because T1 had been so weird and jealous about such things - and so it was a relief that he had been so positive. On the other hand, a (much less rational) part of me had felt rejected by his willingness to 'hand me on’ to someone else.

I said yes - he's perfect… apart from being so totally gorgeous… and then I looked at T and said “not that you're not totally gorgeous!” His embarrassed, amused expression was adorable.

We moved on. T said that I'd mentioned what I'd been preoccupied with the first week, and wondered what happened the second week. I said I'd had a hard time… That I'd forgotten before he went that some difficult anniversaries were coming up for me.

I told him it had been exactly three years since myself and my partner had left a long-term job at a place that we loved very much. I explained that things hadn't ended well and it had been a massive loss for both of us. I said that when you work in a pub it's like a second home, more than a job. He seemed to understand. Then I happened to mention the name of the pub and he said “oh, you've probably served me a drink at some point then, I go there a lot when the festival is on” (the pub is next to a theatre and our city has a big arts festival every May)... This was the third thing to finally come out this session. The first time I went to see T, I had a brief freak-out on his doorstep when I first saw him, because I recognised him. This probably explains why! So I told him about that.

Then I told him about the other anniversary. It had also been three years since myself and my partner attended an airshow at which there was a crash which killed eleven people. I said that soon after we'd left the pub we went to an airshow, and T said “that airshow?”, and I said yes. Then he asked me something like “were you there when it happened?” and I went a bit weird, I had something sort of like a flash of anger and looked at him and said “were we there?! We watched it happen!” ...he started to try to explain himself, or apologise, or something, but my brain had gone radio static. I put my head in my hands and quickly shut him down… I said it was okay, it wasn't him, I just felt weird. And I was silent for a moment.

It didn't take me long to drag myself out of whatever hole I'd fallen into. I didn't want to talk about it any more though.

I said that I had also been struggling because the universe had decided to send two ex-boyfriends into the shop where I work (one the day before and one the Sunday a week before that), which had stirred up all kinds of horrible feelings.

I explained that seeing G, a boyfriend of mine from when I was fourteen, who I pretty much hadn't seen since then, had made me feel regretful of the path I'd taken. He was a nice boy, and still seemed like a nice person, but I'd broken his heart and left him for another boy who treated me terribly and
Possible trigger:
, amongst many other things. I'd been thoughtful about what might have happened if I'd made a different decision back then. Maybe I wouldn't have f***ed my life up so badly.

T said “is this the guy with the tattoos?” (T1 had a tattoo which reminded me of him) and I laughed and said “no - that's D, who I saw yesterday!” I said that I don't blame him for getting confused, I have a lot of horrible ex-boyfriends.

I talked about seeing D, and how when I see him (which happens very rarely) I feel crushed under the weight of all the things I can't say to him. T asked what I can't say, and I explained that part of me feels like he never let me go. I need him to let me go. We talked about my reasons for not saying the things I want to say (it would feel like a betrayal of my partner), and we talked about how I dream about D pretty frequently, and have for about a decade now.

At one point, T said “your dreams are very peopled with people” (a rather weird sentence) and I replied “yeah… aren't everyone's?” ...he said no, that he knew some people who usually had dreams with no other people in them at all. I was surprised by that, and said that I didn't think I'd ever had a dream without other people in it.

T started to talk about how wonderful he thinks dreams are. He said that they are 'utterly unique’ and then caught himself, saying that he was retracting the word 'utterly’, because it's completely redundant in front of the word 'unique’... Unique can't be more or less, it just is. I laughed and said “oh, good, 'cause I was about to scratch you off my list of viable therapists!”, and he said “yes, that's what I was afraid of!”

I noticed there were twelve minutes left, and said so. I went into child mode, pulling my knees up to my chest. I told him that I'd made something… For him.

There was silence.

I asked if he would accept it, if I gave it to him. He said he didn't know, because no client had ever tried to give him something they'd made before.

I was trying to remain outwardly calm, although I don't think I managed it very well. I started to curl up into a ball in the chair.

He talked about boundaries a bit, about an article he'd read in Therapy Today. I was not interested, far too busy shrivelling up inside.

We agreed that I'd give him some time to think about it.

I always get up before him, and leave pretty punctually. But this time I didn't want to get up. I don't know why. I said “I'm waiting for you to get up first”, and he looked a bit baffled. He asked about my hospital appointment the next day. I told him about it. He still didn't get up.

I said “I'm waiting…”

He got up.

I see him again tonight.

Last edited by lucozader; Aug 30, 2018 at 03:12 PM..
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Default Aug 30, 2018 at 12:11 PM
  #66
wow, great write-up, Luco. I think it rivals LT!

It seemed like such a good session until the end.
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Default Aug 30, 2018 at 12:21 PM
  #67
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wow, great write-up, Luco. I think it rivals LT!

It seemed like such a good session until the end.
Thank you! That is high praise, haha!

...and yeah, it was...
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Default Aug 30, 2018 at 01:31 PM
  #68
Thank you for sharing your session. I liked the sentence "peopled with people". xD

You were very brave for bringing up the hard stuff. I hope tonight's session goes well Luc and he's had time to think about the item.
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Default Aug 30, 2018 at 02:14 PM
  #69
It sounds like you had a really good session. I think its good that T is thinking about accepting what you made for him. Some T's are so rigid and they won't accept anything and then other T's have looser boundaries. Its good he's going to see you again so the break won't be so long.
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Default Aug 30, 2018 at 03:18 PM
  #70
Thanks Cake and Kitty.

Tonight's session was okay. There were some weird moments, but there was a lot of good stuff too. Although... well... Here's what I said to a friend about it:

We talked about the airshow. We talked about my appointment on Tuesday and my appointment for the procedure next week. We talked about the time I got a screwdriver stuck in my foot. We talked about whether Eeyore and Marvin the paranoid android would get on with each other or not if they met. We did not talk about the gift.

So I guess we're just going to pretend that didn't happen.

Fine. I'd rather pretend it didn't. Just don't know what to do with the f***ing thing now.
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Default Aug 30, 2018 at 03:22 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by lucozader View Post
Thanks Cake and Kitty.

Tonight's session was okay. There were some weird moments, but there was a lot of good stuff too. Although... well... Here's what I said to a friend about it:

We talked about the airshow. We talked about my appointment on Tuesday and my appointment for the procedure next week. We talked about the time I got a screwdriver stuck in my foot. We talked about whether Eeyore and Marvin the paranoid android would get on with each other or not if they met. We did not talk about the gift.

So I guess we're just going to pretend that didn't happen.

Fine. I'd rather pretend it didn't. Just don't know what to do with the f***ing thing now.

Maybe he just needs more time to think about it?
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Default Aug 30, 2018 at 03:53 PM
  #72
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So I guess we're just going to pretend that didn't happen.

Fine. I'd rather pretend it didn't. Just don't know what to do with the f***ing thing now.
I don't know if this is a good strategy in therapy.
But on the other hand, never letting anything drop is not a good strategy either.

What to do?

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Default Aug 30, 2018 at 04:00 PM
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We did not talk about the gift.

So I guess we're just going to pretend that didn't happen.

Fine. I'd rather pretend it didn't. Just don't know what to do with the f***ing thing now.
Ugh. That's awful. I hate when there's something like just in the way in therapy that doesn't need to be in the way. I don't know why T's don't understand that giving them something doesn't have to be so difficult. My T that I saw for 10 years, I gave her handmade cards at Christmas and every time she went away on vacation which she accepted no problem, but at the end when she got sick with MS I gave her a blanket I made and she accepted it, but I don't know if she would have accepted it back on like year 3. Or even year 5. I think she took it just because we had been together so long, and maybe her defenses were down because she was dealing with the MS. Oh I once gave her a plastic toy solder to protect her on vacation which she took but I'm sort of surprised she did. That was more about reassuring me than anything.
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Default Aug 30, 2018 at 04:02 PM
  #74
Wait I don't know how to spell solder. Is it soldier? IDK.
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Default Aug 30, 2018 at 04:02 PM
  #75
Like I always tell my Mom every time she gets on me for spelling or grammer, I didn't get my Master's Degree in English.
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Default Aug 30, 2018 at 04:42 PM
  #76
My memory of my session yesterday is fragmented.

I got there, sat down and started talking to T (I think). I think I told him I didn't really remember the whole of the day. I told him matter of factly what I'd done. Things must have gotten stressful somehow? Maybe with what I worried about? For some reason, I asked T if he thought I was a bully--no, I asked if he thought I was like that -- (I think T must have been talking about something) . T told me that I wasn't a bully ( in my memory, I can see myself?) I must have been dissociated, and he then said something like, "you're not a bully, you don't _______(fill in the blank). And it immediately made me wonder if a part of me is a bully. But I don't have DID.


huh ????????
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Default Aug 30, 2018 at 09:08 PM
  #77
Half-hour scheduled (and paid) phone session with T while I was on vacation with H, D, and my parents (staying together in same condo). I planned to drive to a nearby shopping center to take the call (and do shopping!) Call was scheduled for 1. As I was driving there, at noon, my phone rang. It was T. Me: "I thought our session was at 1?" T: "What? I can't hear you!" Finally got across that I thought session was 1, not 12. He looked and said I was right, he'd call me back at 1.

I found a quieter area in shopping center where reception on my phone was good. There was a bench, but it was right outside of a kids' clothing store, so I opted to sit in a different area on the ground. A guy walking by asked if I was OK, and I said yes, he moved along. T called right at 1. I explained the shopping center situation and said how I realized this is the first time I'd talked to him on the phone since we'd set up my first session. His voice sounded a bit different on the phone.

He apologized for calling at the wrong time before, and said he actually had a client in the waiting room when he called me (whoops!) I said it was OK and then...for some reason I apologized, maybe because he couldn't hear me in the car? I think really I was just nervous and feeling sort of awkward. T: "I assume you got down there OK." Me: "Yes, made it through [tough part of drive]. I did hold the stone for that part and I think it helped. Haven't touched it otherwise during trip." T: "OK." I said trip had actually been going fairly well, that I'd been trying to be upfront about needing alone time, like "I'm going to go read in my room now." That I thought some of what we'd talked about had helped, like about the LT dictatorship. He said good.

I said I was trying to figure out what to talk about. Around this moment, I was concerned that a bunch of time had passed. I looked at my Fitbit--it had been 4 whole minutes. T said maybe we could talk about my being upset Sunday night (which I'd emailed him about--H and D had gone to the vacation Sunday morning, and I waited to go till Monday morning). I said I'd been thinking of that. How I wondered if maybe it was that I just missed D and H. And I felt like I'd wanted the extra time to relax after a stressful week, but then I just felt sad and lonely.

T asked if I'd been bored at the time. I said kinda. And how I'd tried to do different things, but not much interested me. He said boredom can lead to feelings like I had. I said it was also difficult because I'd been so busy with work the week leading up to the trip, then suddenly had nothing to do. T said going from being really busy to nothing can be really difficult, too, so maybe that was part of it. And how maybe it would have helped if I'd had more of a plan for what to do with the time. I said that made sense.

I said on my way to shopping center, H had texted me about how he called my dad out on basically mocking D when she was upset about something (long story). T asked how my dad reacted, and I said H said he'd been surprised that it bothered him. T said that most times when people do stuff like that, it's because they're clueless rather than intentionally being an a**hole. Me: "Good, because I'd rather think of my dad as clueless than an a**hole."

Around this time, the guy who'd asked if I was OK came by again. He asked again, I said I was OK. He was like, "Are you sure? You're sitting on the ground. Why not the bench?" Me: "I'm fine, really. I'm talking to...I'm on the phone." (I realized that saying I was talking to my therapist probably wouldn't help my "I'm fine!" case. I considered saying I was on phone with friend, but was afraid of how T would react to that.) I finally managed to convince him, and he gave me knuckles. I explained to T and apologized. T: "It's good to know there are still people who care out in the world."

Me: "There was something else my dad did that bothered me. Hm...maybe things haven't been going as well as I'd thought." I told T how D is allergic to cashews and pistachios (had a reaction once, plus tested positive for allergy). The day before, when D was out with H, my dad put some mixed nuts (including cashews) on a napkin and was like, "D's not here, I can finally eat some nuts." I was like, "It's really better not to, to be safe." Dad: "She's not here,it's fine." Me: "I just worry about dust from them being around. I have her epipen with us, and I'd rather not have to use it." I forget what he said to that.

T said he seemed very cavalier about it. Me: "Yes. And I mean, like it was this huge thing for him not to eat nuts for a few days while D was there. And it feels like he's putting that above her safety." T said maybe I needed to have a conversation with him about it, talking about her first reaction to cashews, the risks with nuts,etc. I said I wouldn't want to have the conversation on vacation,but do think I need to talk to him. That maybe he thinks I'm just overreacting, but nut allergies can be a big deal. T agreed.

I said we don't have any of the nuts she's allergic to in our house. That we do have peanut butter, but are careful with that, even though she tested negative and even passed a peanut challenge. I said the challenge was kinda funny, because it involved her eating one Reese's Pieces (Piece?), then having to wait a half hour to see if she reacted. Which...you're giving a 5-year-old a single piece of candy then saying they have to wait? T laughed and said, "That's weird they had her do that. You'd think they'd do something more...scientific."

I hadn't felt that connected to T on the call before that--he didn't seem as real to me on the phone. But his laughing made me feel like it was actually him on the other end of the phone.

Talked about some other stuff regarding my dad. And my wondering, as we'd discussed in a recent session, if he'd been like that to me as a kid, too, only I hadn't remembered it. T said it was possible. I said how being on vacation with them...it was one thing when just me, or even me and H. But with D there, it's all these other levels, seeing how they interact with her, react to me (and H) parenting her, etc. How if D's upset, my mom will often laugh, and my dad will sometimes do the mocking thing. I talked about my wanting to stick up for her to my parents and maybe overidentifying (my word) with her at times.

T said it can be helpful to stick up for her, and a term that's often used for things like that is "reparative." That I can't go back to when I was a kid and change how I reacted, but could be helpful now for me to speak up for D. I said that made sense, how it could be healing in a way.

I noticed we were almost out of time. I said how I'd been having fun with H on the trip. T: "Is D having fun?" Me: "Yes, for the most part." T: "Good!" Confirmed Tuesday, said I'd email about session later next week (we ended up scheduling for Friday). Me: "It's been good talking to you. This helped, even though the week is mostly going OK. I mostly wanted it in case things were going to hell, like I called it a 'release valve' to H." T: "I hope you enjoy the rest of your trip." Me: "Thanks." T: "Take care." Me: "You too."
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Default Aug 30, 2018 at 09:54 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by SlumberKitty View Post
Wait I don't know how to spell solder. Is it soldier? IDK.
Soldier is correct.

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Default Aug 31, 2018 at 04:56 AM
  #79
Emails...

Me to him:

Quote:
Hi T

I've been doing much better this week after another challenging session. I think that has a lot to do with the time we spent connecting towards the end of last session. I was able to take that feeling of connection away with me. I still feel it actually.

The reason I'm emailing is that I have given some thought to transitional objects after you offered me (a toy I have given a name and character to) last session. I was very, very touched; I know you missed him last time. My feeling was that you were willing to make a sacrifice for my wellbeing, which means a lot to me.
That said, I think he needs to be home where he belongs, but I might benefit from a transitional object anyway. I was wondering if you could perhaps choose me a stone from your bowl that I could take away with me? Which stone you choose isn't as important as the fact it is chosen by you for me. Hope that makes sense and is okay with you.

You were in my dream last night. It was your birthday.

Thank you, and see you next week
With love
Echos
He replied really quickly:

Quote:
Hi Echos,

I'm very pleased to hear you are doing much better and its useful to know that spending more time intentionally connecting towards the end of the session seems to help. I have been wondering whether it would be helpful to do that at the start of our session sometimes?

I am very happy to choose you a stone to take away - I like that idea.

I look forward to hearing about your version of my birthday next week!

Warm wishes, T
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Default Aug 31, 2018 at 03:44 PM
  #80
I emailed my former T and overshared about how much I miss her and how I am going to hate having to say goodbye to her next week on the phone. I told her how I've been crying when I think about losing her which is a lot of times and how I am trying to honor our work together by dealing with this well (i.e. by not SH-ing) and how she has done so much to help me transition to a new T and how much I appreciate her and even though I poured my heart out. It's just sad now because I know that she isn't going to respond and I'm just stuck with all these feelings/emotions with no where for them to go.
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