In Session Today: Part V

LonesomeTonight · Sep 13, 2018 at 05:01 PM

Wow, I can't believe I forgot a really important part of that session. Including it here so I don't edit yet again and make it even longer.

In relation to what happened with the email, we talked about internalizing other people's caring and how difficult that can be for me. I was trying to figure out how to do that, at least with T, and said when I thought back to Monday's session, if I really thought about it, I remembered how he'd just listened and accepted what I said, even the stuff I felt bad about. And that he'd been caring. How maybe I should have just thought about that instead of sending the email, but it's hard when I'm in a certain state. He said it's something that would take practice, that I might have to do a lot of, the thinking back to evidence that someone cares or loves me.

Me: "I feel at one point I did internalize ex-MC. Like it didn't completely last, but it did for periods of time. It's like I felt him...uh, I'm trying to figure out a way to say this that doesn't sound weird." All I kept thinking was "I felt him inside me," which sounded kind of sexual." Me: "I guess that I felt his caring inside me me." T: "I was going to say 'love.'" Me: "..."

It surprised me that T used that word. Was he suggesting that maybe, possibly, in some way, ex-MC did feel some sort of love for me? Or at least that it was OK if I experienced it that way, like I felt love from him, even though maybe ex-MC didn't necessarily feel that (or if he did, that he'd never say it)? And is it OK that maybe, at times, I feel love from current T? (Not to say he feels that for me at all or ever would, just if I'm feeling it from him.) Of course I was too afraid to ask any of this...

LonesomeTonight · Sep 13, 2018 at 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by downandlonely

A lot of what you said about anxiety and anger is familiar to me. I am very afraid to show anger for fear of rejection. I don't want to be like my brother, who is always getting angry at everyone.

Sorry you deal with that too. I've always had trouble with expressing anger, partly because it was never really shown in my house growing up (only child, parents didn't show it). I just hadn't quite made the connection between anger and anxiety until T made it.

SalingerEsme · Sep 14, 2018 at 08:04 AM

In this session, you did something he wants for you ( his words). You focused a lot on your real life- H and his anger, complex questions about H and reading/ reaching him etc. The centerpiece of the session wasn't your relationship with T himself. There seemed too like alot of accord and agreement between you even though there had been conflict through email. That speaks well of your capacity to bounce back and listen and communicate. It seems like a productive, useful session the moves forward toward the goals of therapy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

T yesterday. He retrieved me and did his usual saying "Hey" quietly as I approached him, I said "hi" back, then we went back and sat down. He had to check something on his phone and apologized--I said was OK, do what he needed. Only took a few seconds, then he focused back on me.

I mentioned his email response and my reaction to it. He said he wasn't sure if he had it on phone, would try to pull it up. I offered to get it on mine, so we were looking at our respective phones. He found it on his, then read it out loud to me (see my above post for that email exchange).

He mentioned the triggering thing, and I said again how it reminded me of what my mom would say. Me: "But really, your whole initial reply bothered me because it felt like you didn't understand why I was feeling raw and vulnerable. I guess I was just looking for validation there or something. Which maybe wasn't fair to you because I wasn't clear about what I wanted..."

T: "Well, I actually didn't understand why you were feeling vulnerable. I didn't know what specifically you felt vulnerable about, if it was about me or something else." Me: "But it seemed like it should have been obvious, I'd just been talking about death and loss, my own mortality, mixed feelings about H's friend's and my grandmother's deaths. With the mixed feelings, I'm not sure that I'd ever even realized I had them, let alone admitted them to anyone. So I felt vulnerable. And I guess I just wanted validation, like for you to say something like, 'After a session like that, I can understand why you'd be feeling vulnerable. But you'll get through it.'"

T: "OK. When I read your email though, I didn't know why you were feeling vulnerable. So to have said something like that to you would have been dishonest. And you know I've pledged to always be honest with you." Me: "Yes, which I appreciate...I guess it's not fair for me to expect you to read my mind. Maybe I should have explained the vulnerable feeling more in the first email."

I said how I'd also read his email in a more negative tone. T gave a look. Me: "I know, that's why I shouldn't email..." T: "I'd never tell you that you shouldn't email. But that's why I prefer in person. If you're feeling a certain way, it's easy to ascribe tone to someone's words in an email. Not just with me, with anyone." Me: "Yeah...and I was feeling badly about myself, like that I was a bad person for thinking certain things. So I guess I assumed you were thinking the same things and projected that onto you. When I assume you weren't." T: "No, I wasn't."

I said how H had seemed really harsh to me since the night before, continuing to this morning. That I'd try to help with something with D the night before, and H yelled at me to "Go downstairs!" That I went downstairs and started crying a bit. And later he was yelling at D to "Just go to sleep!" which of course, how does that help? Then this morning he was carrying her in her room because she woudn't get dressed and tripped and dropped her, and she was all upset. And H was all "You're fine!" to her. Meanwhile, after, I was hugging her, saying how I knew it was scary, that she was OK, did she want another hug? (she did).

T: "Did he say that he was upset with you about something?" Me: "No. And I asked him multiple times the night before, because it seemed like everything I said or did bothered him. And he always said no." T: "Then it wasn't about you." Me: "I know, and I probably made it worse by asking him so often. That at one point in marriage counseling, ex-MC suggested I ask H if he's angry at me. And that I worried it would annoy H, and H did say he'd find it annoying. So I worry that in asking him, I annoy him more." T: "What you do, is you ask him once. And if he says it's not you, then you believe him." Me: "But what if it really is me?" T: "Well, then you gave him the chance to say that. If it is you and he doesn't tell you, when you specifically ask, that's on him, not you."

Me: "OK. This makes me think of something I was talking about with a friend, where she said she's trying to realize what she has control over and what she doesn't. And it's helping her to let go of what she can't control. Like...say, your response to my email. Or how H is acting." T: "That's a good thing to do." Me: "It's hard though." T: "Yes it is."

Me: "So with H, I think it may partly be about the anniversary of his friend's death. But do I ask him about that? Because maybe he want to talk or even know what's bothering him." T: "That could be." Me: "And I know I was being kind of weird Monday night after session, and I apologized for it yesterday, he said was OK. But I feel bad, because if he wanted to talk about friend that night, I kind of kept him from doing that. But I couldn't really talk about some of what I was upset about--I couldn't tell him that I had mixed feelings about his friend's death." T: "Remember, he maybe be having those mixed feelings himself, too. And feeling guilty about it." Me: "But I can't ask him about that..." T: "Well...if I were to ask someone about it. OK, with my wife I'd be more bold. But if it was, say, a friend, I might mention how people sometimes have mixed feelings about things like that, give him chance to open up, maybe share what I'm feeling." (or something to that effect) Me: "OK." (Incidentally, I'd noticed earlier in session that he wasn't wearing his wedding ring, but his mention of his wife made me assume he'd just forgotten it or something.)

Me: "But I don't know if his feelings are about the friend even. He's also had stress at work. I just worry this will continue." T: "Well, then you need to talk to him about it, not when he's acting angry. But when he's calmer. You can tell him something like, 'Maybe you haven't noticed it, but your irritability and anger are affecting me and D. And whatever it's about, you need to figure it out and get your ***** together so that you're not taking it out on us.'" Me: "OK, maybe I'll try that. It helps to have a suggestion of what to say."

I said I just have trouble dealing with anger in general. T said that anger is an emotion generally expressed without regard for how other people feel. And how people who express it will often feel guilty afterward. I said I've always had difficulty expressing anger. T: "That's because of anxiety. It prevents you from expressing it because you worry about your effect on other people." Me: "I never made that connection between anger and anxiety before. Huh. It makes sense. It's a difficult emotion for me to feel, too. I mean, we were talking once in marriage counseling about anger, and I said how I'd rather feel depression than anger. And ex-MC was just completely mystified by that."

T said depression is anger turned inward. He said my anxiety likely made me fear that if I expressed anger, it could lead to rejection or abandonment. Me: "Yeah, and I guess..." we exchanged a look...I continued "it's also tied to my needing people to like me? You were just thinking that weren't you?" T: "Yes, I was about to say the same thing." Me: "Hm."

Talked about anxiety some more, in terms of my fear of rejection by him, H, friends, etc. I said I felt like much of that had come from my mom, how she acted like I had to do things exactly right, not upset anyone, or I might get rejected. Like if I didn't call a friend back right away, they might be upset, or if I declined plans, they might not invite me out again. Like I feel I have to be the perfect friend. T: "That was your mom putting her anxiety on you." Me: "Yeah, like making me feel what maybe she feels in relationships." T: "Or her own fears for you that you wouldn't have friends or relationships." Me: "Hm, yeah...So I guess much of my anxiety comes from my mom then?" T: "Well, you're what we call a 'double-dipper.' You were socialized to have anxiety, plus you were genetically predisposed to anxiety." Me: "In other words, 'good luck with all that!'" T smiled. Me: "I hadn't heard the 'double-dipper' term for psychology before, just with, uh, dips, like Seinfeld."

(Edited this part): I noticed we were nearly out of time, and I quickly mentioned to him that I'd used the tensing and releasing muscles technique he'd demonstrated last session when I was upset Monday night.

Possible trigger:

T had suggested it as an alternative to SH, not sure if he remembered that, but I told him it was enough for me that night, I didn't feel need to do anything else. T said with the fist clenching, it's also OK to press my fingernails into my skin, if that helps, as he demonstrated. Me: "Oh, I do that sometimes with anxiety anyway." He said to just do that within limits. Me: "As in, don't leave a mark?" T: "Don't break the skin." Me: "OK." I was kind of surprised he suggested that, but maybe a little relieved that he thought was OK?

Then I glanced at the time and saw it was 25 minutes after (we start on half hour). Me: "Oh! We have to stop!" T didn't seem particularly alarmed (may not have had client right after me--waiting room was empty). He just took out his phone, said he had a meeting so didn't have usual time available Monday and apologized. Offered me two other times, I picked one (ended up changing it later). Then gave me usual Thursday time.

Went over to pay. Me: "Oh, I won both my fantasy football games this weekend!" T: "Look at you! What does that mean? Do you win something?" I attempted to give 30-second explanation of how fantasy football works to him. Paid, shook hands as he said, "Good luck in football this weekend!" Me: "Thanks!"

It's hard to describe this in writing, but I just felt really connected to him all session (well, after the very beginning bit). Lots of eye contact, caring looks, etc. I felt understood and accepted. It probably also helped that he wasn't defending my H's anger like ex-MC usually did...

WarmFuzzySocks · Sep 14, 2018 at 12:47 PM

I started my most recent session by saying that I felt like my last session was a mess, all over the place. I was pretty distressed.

We talked a little about the dream book she'd lent me. I'd read something that didn't much have to do with any dreams I've been having, but which was meaningful and centering: That the goal I was striving for really was wonderful and beautiful, even though too much surrender and acceptance in pursuit of that goal created imbalance. She agreed, and reminded me that many of the actual dreams I've shared with her center around kindness and care for others.

I talked about a moment waking in the early morning in my tent in the woods that was profoundly centering, that in pursuing and praying for peace and clarity, I got a strong sense: I'm not looking for clarity, I'm looking for a different answer to the question. I've got the clarity that I need. And how I had to just sit with that for a while. It feels like another shift, a settling into peace instead of chasing it. Trusting myself. Which is what she said to me, again: Trust your voice.

I talked some about the most recent conversation I'd had with the kids' dad, and how the distance and sense of clarity or trust in this process served me well, because as we talked, I wasn't engaging in his manipulations and accusations in the same way. At the end of the session, she shared a story with me...my response: I've talked about this process as walking across a rope bridge. When you're on the bridge, it's bucking and swaying, and you're just gripping the ropes and trying to keep from falling off, putting on foot in front of the other. And I'm near the end of the bridge, so it's not swinging as much but I am still holding on for dear life and moving forward and can't really look up to see where I'm going. I felt like I'd just heard someone on the other side of the bridge saying, you've got this. The bridge ends. It's good over here. I feel like I am almost to solid ground.

Then, briefly, because we were getting past time, I told her I hadn't even gotten to what the kids' dad had said when I told him I'd locked my door that night after we'd talked: He'd thought I should be further along in my recovery by now.
Her face did this -->

And I said, I know, right?

Then it was past time to go, so I did, out into pouring rain.

ChickenNoodleSoup · Sep 14, 2018 at 05:32 PM

It's not all triggering, I think, but I have difficulty deciding which parts are and which not so I'm just gonna put it all into a box.

Possible trigger:

Had my second session for the week today. Lay down the same way I always do. T asked me what's up. After some silence, I said I'm scared. Scared of what? Dying. He asked whether something had happened the past two days? I said no. He asked then why do you think about dying? I told him the humanity is ****ed and I'd rather go in peace now than experiencing thirst, famine and war while watching the world destroy itself. He answered he felt like I was angry. "Of course I'm angry!" - "Who are you mad at, me?" No, pretty much everyone. Of course him as well, he's just like any other human being. I'm angry at everyone, including me and him. He asked why that was the case and I said because everyone just looks out for themselves. Because humanity is selfish, and even if I try to do my part about it, it's not gonna change most peope. I said I'm frustrated I can't change other humans. He said if I could I'd be god.
At some point he said he feels that no matter what he'd say right now, I'd just disagree with it and argue my point against it. I said that yes, that was correct. He commented on how it seemed like a power struggle, to which I probably made some snappy comment but I can't remember what I said.

We somehow got back to dying. After some discussion, I said that I'd rather die now when I'm reasonably happy and in a good place. I had over 20 years of **** before this, and my future doesn't look too bright either, so why not now? He asked me what I felt like other people feel when I talk like this? I answered that I don't really know. I know that it depends on the situation. If somebody says they want to die when diagnosed with alzheimers, people would understand. But for some reason since I'm young and physically healthy, people seem to not understand. He replied that some people can understand very well. But that there's also other feelings involved.. "What do you think I feel right now?" Me: "You're probably worried, scared and sad". He agreed that all of these popped up for him. That in the end I'd have to decide for myself whether I want to die. That dying was an option and a valid decision. I said that if I could decide freely, I'd not want to die. But that I felt I didn't really have any options left, my future seems pretty hopeless. He asked whether I felt like this because I just finished my education and don't exactly know how it's going to continue? I told him that it was rather because Africa is going to run out of water, the US will turn into a desert and Asia is pretty clearly hopeless as well. He told me that that was one way of seeing it, but I argued that science was backing me up pretty well.

To that he replied that science also said that I might be feeling a lot of negativity inside of me and project it onto the outside world because that's easier to deal with. And that I probably couldn't tell whether that's the case currently. I don't remember the rest of the conversation here.

At some point he asked me to tell him what I was currently experiencing, adding "and forget about Africa!". I tried to feel it and said I was sad. I cried for a while, then said I felt sick and my head hurts (probably because at that point I was already crying for 45 minutes or so). He asked whether I felt breathing was hard, which I agreed to (obviously, my nose was completely closed up because of crying). After a short while of silence, he asked what I was thinking. I replied that I don't have any kind of future, that my life feels hopeless and that I can't do anything to change what happens. More crying. He then told me to answer the same things again. I said my head still hurts and my leg feels tense. "Your left leg?" (that's the one where I usually self harm). I nodded. He told me to change how I sit, adding maybe I could try upright. I didn't want to do that, but I managed to get into some position of sitting cross-legged while still lying down, supporting my legs with the arm rest of the chair. He said that would cut of circulation in my legs real quick, but I felt like I can watch out for myself. He also commented on how my neck was probably tense as well. After a few seconds, he wanted to know whether there's still any kind of thoughts? I told him there were less and that I mostly tried to concentrate on how I felt.

We then talked a bit while I tried to calm down. At some point I told him I felt remorseful. He asked why. Be cause I made him worry, because I was behaving the way I was and talking the way I was. He said that it's important to understand that while he has feelings and worries, those emotions are never as strong as mine are. That he can distance himself from these things. He talked some more until I said I started getting scared. He made a wild guess of that this might be due to the fact that I realized we were two different entities and don't share all emotions. Which in hindsight on the one hand makes sense and on the other hand was not at all my experience at the time. So I felt like getting mad again, but also didn't want to fight any more.

He said that it was important that he doesn't experience feelings the same way, otherwise I'd be scared and then he'd get scared and then that wouldn't be therapeutic, he'd scare me even more and make everything worse. But that he's still always there and we experience and try to tolerate the feelings together. And that one day I'll realize that that the fear isn't that bad after all. He asked me whether I felt it was better to stop here and I nodded. We scheduled for next Wednesday as usual and shook hands.

LabRat27 · 12:20 AM

I read him a letter explaining that I sometimes manipulate people by saying things that I'm saying because I want them to care about me and be upset by. Like saying how much I hate myself or hurting myself. I'm not lying, but I'm saying it because I want them to display some emotion in response to it so I feel like I matter.
He didn't think that that makes me a horrible person.

He thinks I internalize shame and guilt about wanting to be cared about because my mother didn't provide that when I wanted it as a kid and she thought emotions were stupid. I'm oversimplifying of course, and it was my choice to hide how sensitive I was and hide my emotions so she wouldn't feel bad, and she was in a really bad emotional place and my father was emotionally abusive. And instead of being mad at my mom I came to believe that the problem was with me for wanting things in the first place.
He wants me to write an unsent "anger letter." I don't feel angry at my mom though. I understand that her intentions were good and she wasn't emotionally equipped and she feels bad enough already. He wants me to let myself feel angry with her, but I'm not suppressing anger towards her, there really isn't anger there.
He was surprised to find out that I don't really care about children. He was asking me if a 7 year old that I had come to care about showed me some art they did that they were proud of or something, wouldn't I care and tell them they did a good job and stuff? Would I think their stuff was stupid? And I was like "honestly, yeah." I explained that I'd think it was stupid. I'd humor the kid and pretend to care and act impressed because it would be cruel not to. I don't want children to be unhappy or suffer, and I care about their feelings. But no, when I interact with children I'm usually annoyed and really don't care about their story about a princess on a pink unicorn or whatever. I never let it show. Kids like me and people who know I don't like kids who later see me interact with kids are always surprised by how good I am with kids.
So, no, I don't fault my mom for not caring about this kind of stuff. But she never really felt the need to hide it and didn't understand that it was important to me that she at least pretend to care. And she's bad at pretending to like something she doesn't like, so I just don't show her things I'm proud of.
But I pointed out that I know this about myself and I wouldn't have children, and one of the many reasons is that it wouldn't be fair to the kid because I couldn't provide the kind of emotional support and stuff that they need. It's the same reason I don't have a dog. Unlike children, I actually like dogs, but I know that with the hours I work it wouldn't be fair to the dog for me to have them because I'm not able to give them what they need.
He was definitely caught off guard by the fact that I don't like children or care about the stuff that's important to them. Of all the things I told him today, I think that one probably surprised him the most. And it's one of the things that I actually don't feel guilt or shame about.

I sat on the floor again hugging my knees and facing to the side and kind of hiding. He commented at the end that the chair would be more comfortable. I told him that I felt safer on the floor. He made some comment that made it seem like he thought that I felt like I didn't deserve to sit in the chair or something, and I tried to explain that it really did make me it easier when I sit on the floor and that I'm 23, so I'm young enough that it's not really uncomfortable. He didn't seem to really get it.

Edit: okay so maybe there is actually some anger there once I start writing... But what's the point? It's not constructive or useful. It won't change the past.

LostOnTheTrail · Sep 17, 2018 at 07:00 AM

It got real in session today. Didn’t talk about much that I had planned. Began by talking about reflexology as a venue for inner work.
‘It brought up a lot of stuff for me.’
‘In terms of triggers?’
‘Not triggers, but thoughts and feelings I would be better off bringing into this space.’
I mentioned that I had been confronted with the question ‘What the hell are you so scared of?’ Talked about the line that I am unaware of until I cross it, and that is where the intense emotions are –fear, anger, crying.
‘It sounds really scary to not be aware until you have crossed that line.’
‘It’s worse when I am in conversation with somebody, and they react badly.’
I tried to talk some more about reaction to the pottery experience and how mum reacted.
The filter got in the way. I eventually responded to R’s question ‘What are you hoping to do today?’ With ‘I want to restore…’
‘This is really hard for me to say. I want to restore a sense of safety.’
‘Are you talking about between us?’
‘Yes.’
I had talked earlier about how not all of my feelings can come out through perfect poetry. ‘Some need to come out through the land of four letter words.’
We had a conversation about how being ‘together’, being a functional human, doesn’t mean everything is perfect all the time, but you can be pissed off and own it.
She said ‘What I can feel you trying to say is that this break has been really hard. It is OK to say that, Lost. Can you tell me how the experience was for you without this space?’
I don’t know how I didn’t break then. I came very close to tears.
‘Sorry.’ I grabbed her hand.
‘It felt like a bomb going off. I come back to the cinema experience because I didn’t know that was going to happen. There are other people, but they have to drag it out of me.’
‘I understand that this is not a magical space where things get fixed, but I appreciate that it is important to you.’
We talked about the frustration that gave away to feeling as I did in August 2016…
‘And I didn’t ever want to feel like that again.’
I talked about needing to know my warning signs better, and reaching out whilst I still have the chance.
She reaffirmed that she can’t be there forever, and validated my fear about the lack of support.
‘There must have been a point where you thought ‘Shit! Is this space ever coming back?’
‘Yes.’
‘Turn the filter off, Lost.’
I talked about how my inability to take the phone call didn’t help matters, but held my tongue concerning ‘She’ll be in touch.’
R asked whether I would have felt better if I had been able to email and enquire.
I explained that crisis in another’s life automatically puts them on a temporary Do Not Contact list, even though I know it is different between us.
R said that she had learned from this experience, and felt that she could have managed client expectations better. She thanked me for being honest with her.
We shared that we had both found it intense, but R said that it would have been weird if we had just tried to go straight back to how it was before.

LonesomeTonight · Sep 17, 2018 at 04:57 PM

T today. Waiting room was kinda full, so I sat over in the corner. T opened door and didn't see me, so he leaned forward and peered around the side, then smiled when he saw me. Me: "I was hiding!" He said he'd make sure our sessions would be on half hour from now on (like they usually are) so waiting room would be more empty.

Sat down. I said how often when I'm leaving, if someone's in waiting room, they seem to be staring at me. T said they probably aren't looking at me as long as I think. Or if they are, maybe they're thinking, "I want to get my hair cut like her" or "I like her dress, I wonder where she got it?" (I was wearing a dress) or "I wonder how she likes her Fitbit?" I said I liked that more positive way to look at it.

Talked about my stressful morning with D getting ready for school, H yelling at D, me asking H not to yell at D, and H yelling at me. T said how one of the things he's always believed with parenting is that it's never OK to yell at your kids. I mentioned that I knew it was common. He said just because something is common doesn't mean that it's OK. I said he'd told me that once before and that it had really affected me. That ex-MC would say something was common and that he did it, which implied that it was OK (including yelling at his kids). Note that I sometimes end up yelling at D, too, which I've shared with him, but much less frequently than H.

T said one possibility would be to record H when he was yelling, like not be obvious about it. He put his phone up on the ledge next to him to demonstrate. He said that could potentially be risky though, because it's hard to say how H might react to being videoed. To think long and hard about that.

As part of that discussion, he gave some example, like how everyone shouldn't do something just because other people are. Me: "You mean like lemmings going off the cliff? I think that's lemmings, right?" T: "Is a lemming a fish? Or a mammal?" Me: "I think a mammal, sort of like a meerkat? Or a weasel?" T: "Oh that's right, I think they burrow in the ground like groundhogs." Me: "Not sure but you might be right."

I said how some of the stuff with D seemed to me (as someone with OCD) like OCD stuff. I listed a few of the things to T, and he agreed. I said it especially bothered me if H was yelling at her for those things, like "I *have* to finish my breakfast" (and some counting things) because, in my experience, yelling at someone to stop them won't help, because they really do feel they *have* to do those things. So it will just make them more stressed. T agreed with me. I said (tearing up) that it can be hard for me to see H do that to D because it makes me think of my childhood, with my parents not understanding my mental health issues. T said me being understanding of D can help her, and also help me as well, like healing the past in a way.

I said I didn't know if she had OCD or if this could just be an aspect of autism. He said could be part of autism. He struggled to come up with a term and asked if I wanted to know it. I said OK. He got up and grabbed his DSM V, put on his reading glasses, flipped to a page and read some stuff to me from it, presumably from the autism section. We discussed that a little bit. Also in there, he gave some suggestions for handling the mornings with D and H, including visual schedule. And suggested having discussion with H about it (not in the morning).

He asked me if I felt like H understood mental illness. I said maybe not, though he’ll mention how he’s nervous sometimes. T said that suggests he doesn't really understand, adding “What he needs is a good panic attack!” Which kinda amused me—I said maybe I could inject him with adrenaline (kidding obviously). T said if someone is talking about anxiety and is like, "I get nervous before speaking in public" or about depression saying, "I get a little down sometimes," it suggests they don't really understand. He said it's like a lightning bug compared to lightning. I said was good comparison, and he said he couldn't take credit for it (Mark Twain apparently). And can almost be worse because they *think* they understand and that it's easy enough to deal with, when they really have no idea what the person with anxiety or depression is really going through on a regular basis.

I asked if it was difficult for him to understand what clients are going through if he hasn’t gone through certain things himself. He said, “I’m not going to disclose what I have or haven’t personally experienced, but…" Which I thought was a good holding of boundaries. I said, "I understand that." And went on to explain how he understands things more by talking to "people in my life who I care deeply about" (not sure if he meant real-life people, clients, or both) and by training. He also said that it can be a negative if someone had a similar experience, that if he had, say, severe OCD, he might assume my experience of it was the same as his, when it can be very different in different people. I said I felt that was an issue with ex-MC sometimes, with his having said he's also had anxiety issues.

I asked how I could get H to understand more both what I'm feeling and what D is. How I thought marriage counseling would have helped, but I don't think it did, that I'd explain what I'd want from him if, say, I was panicking, but he tended not to do it. That if he's been with me for 12 years and still didn't get it...

T said some people need to hear it from an expert, like they'll pay him $175 to hear the exact same thing a friend or family member told them. That it doesn't seem fair, but it's often the need to hear it from an outside source. Whether about me or stuff with D. He suggested we find an expert in area to talk to. And with anxiety, maybe try to find documentary on it, since they share personal stories "and have nice music and stuff." How someone else's story might help H understand more than me. Or to find a good book on it, maybe with case studies. I said I'd look into it, and he said to let him know if I found something good.

T also said in a way he wished H and I were still getting couples counseling. Because that could be a place to discuss stuff with D. I said I wondered what it would have been like if we'd gone to him for marriage counseling, like if I'd never started seeing him individually. I said how a friend had said H would likely hate him, because he would challenge and push him. T: "I don't know, guys tend to like me." Me: "Now are you going to say, 'The ladies tend to like me, too'?" T laughed. "No I'm not going to say that." T said he feels he's not a typical T: "I'm into sports, I'm sarcastic, I'm not that warm and fuzzy." Me: "Yeah, I think the sports thing is what bonded H and ex-MC, with them liking the same teams."

T said we'd have to wrap up soon and had maybe 5 minutes left. Was there anything else I wanted to address? I said there was one thing I'd planned to maybe discuss today, but it wasn't urgent, that what we'd talked about was more helpful, stuff I can apply now to hopefully make life easier, or at least the mornings. Talked more about how H was acting toward D, and that I yelled at her on occasion. He said he's heard that a good way to judge how you're acting is that if someone filmed it and put it on social media, would you feel OK about it and feel able to sort of defend your actions? I said that's an interesting way to look at it.

I said I appreciated the little wrap-up time, and he said he was trying to go off some feedback I'd given him recently, though he probably should have given me more time. I thanked him for that. He reached for his phone to schedule and realized it was still on the ledge. T: "I've actually been recording you this whole time! Just kidding!" I laughed and said maybe he has a hidden camera elsewhere. I said actually, someone had recently suggested I record sessions--would that ever be a possibility? He said it's something we could talk about, to discuss why I'd want to. I said we could discuss in future session, and he said that sounded good. (I figure if it's something he'd never allow, he's just say it outright.)

Confirmed Thursday, scheduled for next Mon/Thurs. Went over to pay. He shook my hand, saying, "Enjoy!" Me: "Uh, you too." He commented on the rain, and I was like "Oh right!" and went over to get my umbrella from next to the couch. As I approached the door, he said, "Take care." Me: "Thanks, you too."

SalingerEsme · Sep 17, 2018 at 05:46 PM

That entire session LT focused on your world and family, and not on your relationship with T. He is deftly steering the course charted

. I look forward to these vivid write ups- feel like we are there with you.

LonesomeTonight · Sep 17, 2018 at 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SalingerEsme

That entire session LT focused on your world and family, and not on your relationship with T. He is deftly steering the course charted

. I look forward to these vivid write ups- feel like we are there with you.

Hm, good point. And I still felt connected to him. (And also don't have an "oh no, is everything OK with him?" fear right now.) At least he let me in a little by talking about how he understands clients' struggles, though without revealing too much. Pretty sure I'll have to talk about the relationship again at some point soon though...Maybe it's OK with him as long as that's in the minority of things we discuss, not the majority, which he seemed to think it was before.

Glad you enjoy the writeups!

SalingerEsme · Sep 17, 2018 at 06:15 PM

It gives me hope and inspiration- bc you experienced the connection rather than meta-analyzed it and you connected. I think that is a huge accomplishment since you related deeply on several topics. and let it be connected instead of questioning if it was. So cool!

Hireath · Sep 17, 2018 at 06:29 PM

Had a phone session with my T this morning. Ever since I've gone back to university in August, I've been too far away to do our usual in-person sessions, so we've been doing sporadic phone calls every two weeks or so instead. Usually at the end of each call, T says she'll be in touch to schedule our next one. Our last appointment was a week and a half ago, and days went by and she never texted or e-mailed about scheduling another call. That was fine, I told myself I could wait, even though I was having a hard time. I'm horrible about asking for help when I need it, so even when I started to feel upset I was adamant that I wouldn't e-mail her. I worry a lot that I'm a burden to her.

Except then, over the weekend, things got bad. I was so depressed that I couldn't get out of bed. I had horrible intrusive thoughts, and my mother came to visit, which brought up a lot of traumatic memories. By Sunday, I couldn't take it anymore, so I e-mailed T in desperation and asked if we could talk sometime this week. She immediately responded and said she could squeeze me in the next day (today), which she's done before when I'm really struggling but still shocks me. The amount of empathy she has and how much she's done to help me makes me tear up every time. So when we were on the phone this morning, she asked what was up, and I explained all of it and mentioned that not only had it been really triggering, but that I'd even unearthed a horrible memory that I guess I'd been repressing before.

Possible trigger:

When I was younger, maybe starting when I was around 8 or 9, my parents would tell me the story of how I was born on every birthday. My mother went to the hospital with high blood pressure during the 7th month of her pregnancy, and it ended up being pre-eclampsia. They induced labor to try and stop it. It was very traumatic for her in many respects, and according to my dad, she didn't go to visit me right away in the NICU after the fact. He always told me, "If I wasn't there, nobody would have loved you when you were born." Who in the world would say that to their daughter? A child at the time? How did I never see how awful that was? How could I just forget about that?

It gets worse. Multiple times during her labor my mother said "Get this thing out of me." (referring to me). The doctor also continually scared her by telling her how much of a risk this was posing to both me and her and how we could both die. One of the first times I heard the story, I, being young and curious about the situation, asked, "if they had told you that you could only save one of us, who would you have picked?"
My mother hesitated. My father swooped in and said, "I would have done everything I could have to save both of you." And I can't remember exactly what he said next, but I have a feeling that it was something along the lines of "Your mom wouldn't have saved you." because ever since then, I have had a strong feeling that if she had been alone that day, if the worst had come and she was forced to choose, she would have saved herself instead of me.

I told all of this to T and was trying not to cry, and she said, "I wish you could see my face right now. Every time you say what he told you, my stomach drops." We talked more about that and my childhood as a whole, and I finally braved up enough to ask her: "My point of view is so warped, I don't know what's normal and what isn't anymore. You don't have to answer if you don't want to, but please... how bad was it?" (it being all of it, not just the story.)
She paused for a minute. Finally, she said, "It was really bad.

Possible trigger:

The inability to provide care and comfort, the emotional neglect, the things they did and said that were emotionally abusive... It was bad, H." And I could have sobbed. It felt so freeing to have someone validate me so completely and use that word, "abuse". I've thought it in my head for a while but no one's ever actually said it out loud to me and it was such a relief to hear that she thought so, too. But at the same time I felt crushed, because for so long I thought I'd had a normal childhood and all in the span of a few months I realize that this happy life I thought I had never existed at all.

We finished the phone call a few minutes later. T asked if it would be better if we put a date on the calendar for next time and I said yes. We picked a date at the end of next week, and she told me that I shouldn't hesitate to call before then if I was struggling again. I'm very grateful for her. That's all I could think as we hung up.

unaluna · Sep 17, 2018 at 10:10 PM

(((Hireath))) parents are truly idiots sometimes. Its like they have no idea what it means to be an adult. So they look to THEIR CHILD to be the adult in the room.

LonesomeTonight · Sep 18, 2018 at 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SalingerEsme

It gives me hope and inspiration- bc you experienced the connection rather than meta-analyzed it and you connected. I think that is a huge accomplishment since you related deeply on several topics. and let it be connected instead of questioning if it was. So cool!

Thanks, SE. I wonder if this means I trust the connection/relationship more now?

Echos Myron redux · Sep 19, 2018 at 01:06 PM

He asked me if i had my stone and i said no i had forgotten it. He let me choose another for today. The first part of my session was so painful, so confusing and so disturbing I don't even have the energy to write about it, even though 35 minutes was spent on the pain and 25 minutes trying to get grounded again.

After 35 minutes I said "I can't think about this anymore" T said "what shall we do instead" I said I dont know. He asked me about my new house. I told him about it.
We talked a little more about the bad stuff from a detached standpoint. I don't remember that conversation though so I think I was still dissociative. I remember the gentle expression on his face, but not his words.
I said "i think you understand me. I don't know what I mean by that". He said "I think I have a good idea about what's happening at the moment and what we can do with it". I said "No. You understand me, not it". He looked at me lovingly and smiled.
We stood up and he squeezed me tight. I said "thank you" he said "Trust yourself with your 9 year old self"

Echos Myron redux · Sep 19, 2018 at 01:29 PM

Later I emailed him. I told him I found out what stone I chose and its meaning online. I also told him that I felt so bad after session that I wanted to run back to him and have him hold me again. I told him part of me wants an extra session.

He emailed back almost straight away saying (In response to the stone meaning) "truth and courage - good choice" and giving me some word of encouragement about the bad stuff. He said to let him know if I need another session.

LabRat27 · Sep 20, 2018 at 01:22 AM

I'm not going to put this whole thing in a trigger warning, but just like general TW for emotional/verbal abuse

I had a lot of memories that came back from talking to my mom.
I was able to actually provide specifics about the ways in which my father was verbally/emotionally abusive instead of just vague statements.
I told him about how my father would yell and scream 6" from my face when he was twice my size for things I hadn't done, and then when I denied them I also got yelled at and punished for disrespect and disobedience.
I told him what my mom said, that it was hard for her to watch and she was in an impossible situation because she would want to defend me because she knew he was being unfair and awful, but she also knew that if she tried to intervene and he felt like his authority was being challenged it would only make things worse for me.
And that eventually when she'd moved out she'd "naively believed" (her words) that things would be better between me and him because he was only doing it because he was angry with her (I also told T that I thought that was a rationalization, not naivete, and that she'd wanted to believe that because then she wouldn't feel as guilty for leaving while I still had to spend time at his house).
When I was telling him about my mom not defending me T asked what I was feeling as I was talking about it. I was like "idk, sadness I guess." He was like "that's not the emotion that's coming up for me right now." I asked "you don't think it's sad?" And he said that he felt anger about my mom not defending me, and he thought she wasn't intervening because she didn't want it directed at her. I explained that, no, feeling that his authority was being challenged really would cause my father to escalate things more. T didn't really think that was an acceptable excuse.
But my brother and I also learned not to defend each other because that only made things worse for both of us. So I can't really blame my mom.

There was a lot more to the session than that, but that was the most important part for me. T almost never expresses emotion unless I ask him directly ("do you care about me?" "would it bother you if I suddenly quit therapy without any explanation and you never saw me again?"). It's generally best for me that way because I'm not worried about upsetting him or trying to shield him from stuff or trying to get a reaction out of him. But it helped to hear, because I'm still feeling pretty emotionally detached from these memories. And hurt by the ways in which my mom almost made it sound like some of it was partly my fault.
And because my father's legal defense for custody was that my mom had brainwashed me against him and he could make any incident sound reasonable after the fact by downplaying his behavior and using the fact that I was upset as proof that I was irrational. So the family therapist who did the initial evaluation didn't believe me. Neither did my first therapist. Or the guardian ad litem. My father managed to convince them all that I was just a rebellious 13 year old and I'd been brainwashed and liked my mom because she let me get my way.
If T was angry that means he believes me about my father. And he thinks I should have been protected. He doesn't think I was just being melodramatic. He doesn't think I should have just toughened up and gotten over it. He thinks that it mattered. He thinks that I mattered.

Sessions are usually 50 minutes. He apologetically told me we'd have to wrap up and I looked at my watch and it was 58 after. I was his last patient of the day so I don't feel too guilty, but he's usually good about time. I think the only other time we went over by that much was the session when he was terminating. And maybe the first session together after that?

He asked me what I thought would be helpful for me to do (like homework). I said "not think about it." He said he wanted me to read my stupid "empowerment letter" (I still can't believe I let him talk me into writing that. He now uses it against me whenever he wants to get me to be nicer to myself). I told him I didn't want to do it. He asked if I knew why he wanted me to do it and I said because he knew I'd go find a million creative new ways to blame myself for everything. He said yes and asked why I didn't want to do it. I didn't really know how to answer. It just doesn't feel right for me to do. I don't want to read good things about myself right now. It feels wrong. I think when I'm feeling like this trying to do something like that only makes me angrier at myself.

I have another appointment Friday.

Amyjay · Sep 20, 2018 at 03:11 AM

I don't really know what happened today. I don't know what part of me was there. I don't know what was felt or wanted or needed. Nothing mattered. We didn't want to be there or anywhere. Didn't want to be there. Didn't want to be anywhere else. Didn't want to be.
No part of us was allowed to be there. When we tried to speak we were shut down. When we tried to switch out we were slammed back in. Our hands were held behind our back and fingers gouged into the arm. No speaking. No being. Do Not.
We didn't want to be there. We didn't want to be anywhere.
She did nothing said nothing was nothing that could be of any help. We left. Sat in the car because there was nowhere we wanted to go, to be.
We sat there and weren't.

ChickenNoodleSoup · Sep 20, 2018 at 04:58 AM

Saw my T for the first time this week yesterday.
I texted him a bit before since there had been an accident blocking my bus from getting to T's office. I got off the bus, ran to a stop where other buses I can take also stop, and then got onto the same bus that I had just gotten off. I arrive a bit late and coughed through the first half of the appointment, I think I have some kind of asthma.

I started off by saying my week was ****. Last night I did some kind of wrong movement with my shoulder and now I'm in pain. Tuesday I realized the power supply of my new PC came with a plug for EU sockets, which we can't use here. Ran around town the whole day trying to find a cable that has the right current throughput, since the other cables we have in the house didn't have enough. Couldn't find one. And last week I was a bit upset about our second session on Friday.
T asked why. I felt that he just tried to be right. He told me I'm scared of something within me and project that fear onto stuff in the outside world. But I clearly felt that I was scared of stuff coming from outside. I didn't feel understood. He asked whether he tries to be right too much in general? I said no, just sometimes.
I said that I understand the concept of projection, but I don't think all fears are projection. If a human in the stone age was scared of a tiger, he didn't project the internal fear of I don't know what onto that tiger, he was scared of the freaking tiger! T said that that a tiger was a real thing standing in front of you. That's different from my fears where I'm scared of the mean world outside. I answered that I'm not scared of the world, I'm scared of the world killing itself. Which is happening right now, it's a real thing. He replied that he knew that that was a real thing. But that he didn't perceive it as a real threat of his existence. I was kind of confused by that, I feel like it directly contradicts itself. Anyways, he said that last time we just both had our point of view and tried to convince the other of it. That I probably didn't feel validated because of that. And that it's good I told him.

After some silence, I said I don't want to be so scared of dying anymore. I don't want to think about it every day. He asked what those thoughts involved? Accidents, shootings, the end of the world. Everything. He remembered a time where I told him how there was an evacuation at university, where all the others just slowly gathered their stuff, talked to each other, joked around. Meanwhile I grabbed the things I could and ran outside. I told him that as a child, I used to be scared of death every night. I had a 30 minute ritual where I checked every single corner of my room for things that could kill me. Like bombs, remote-controlled crossbows, people. He confirmed with me that he remembers correctly that I don't have nightmares often. I said as a kid I used to, but I think that's normal. Other than that one dream that I could trigger by looking at an item in my room. And for present dreams, I think most people would describe the contents of some of my dreams as disturbing and like a nightmare. But I never wake up from them.

Silence again. He asked why I built a PC? I just want to have experienced it once. He asked whether I built a laptop or desktop, I replied a desktop. He asked me what the difference between the two is (apart from being able to carry one around). I told him, and then said again how I was annoyed at some bits of it. That I threw some screws into a random box because I was upset, and now I can't find them anymore. He told me sometimes he gets upset about PCs too. I said at least my partner wasn't home at the time, he doesn't like when I rage like this. He replied 'Neither does my wife when I rage!' Kind of made me happy to hear that he sometimes acts like me.

Again some silence. I said I'm sad. He asked me to concentrate on it, to describe it. I told him half the time I'm really sad and see things, memories. And the other time I feel empty and don't see anything. He asked whether I wanted to share the content of the images, I said it's how I lie in bed crying, being sad and scared. He confirmed with me that that was from about 10 years ago. What I'm scared off? The next day, going to school. Who I'm scared of there? I said the one guy who bullied me. 'The one that threatened to throw your guitar out of a window?' - 'Yeah'. We talked about that guy, first about what he did to me. Most of the time he'd just laugh at me, say stupid things about me. Two times he hit me, and sometimes he'd threaten to not give back items that he took from me or to destroy them. T asked whether I fought back? I said at first I didn't, I had been bullied in the past as well, and my parents and teachers always told me that it only makes the bully happier if you fight back. But at some point I snapped and couldn't take it anymore, and ignoring didn't do anything anyways. Then I regularly screamed at the guy and hit him, but he didn't stop. T asked me why I think he did that. I replied either because he liked to make people suffer or because he needed to control something, to have power. T said he probably had lots of problems with his emotions and now fighting back as well as ignoring probably both was confusing to the bully. There was some more to the discussion, but I don't remember most of it.

We had to stop shortly after because we were already 25 minutes over. T confirmed that we'd see on Friday and we shook hands. I managed to look at him very quickly during that, which felt nice, he looked very caring and loving.

Sep 20, 2018 at 07:26 AM

Sadistic behavior. I had no idea the person I sought help from would turn out to be a sadist. Look it up if you are not familiar.

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In Session Today: Part V

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SalingerEsme Grand Poohbah Member Since Jul 2017 Location: Neverland Posts: 1,805 6 4,957 hugs given	Sep 17, 2018 at 05:46 PM #129 That entire session LT focused on your world and family, and not on your relationship with T. He is deftly steering the course charted . I look forward to these vivid write ups- feel like we are there with you. __________________ Living things don’t all require/ light in the same degree. Louise Gluck

SalingerEsme Grand Poohbah Member Since Jul 2017 Location: Neverland Posts: 1,805 6 4,957 hugs given	Sep 17, 2018 at 06:15 PM #131 It gives me hope and inspiration- bc you experienced the connection rather than meta-analyzed it and you connected. I think that is a huge accomplishment since you related deeply on several topics. and let it be connected instead of questioning if it was. So cool! __________________ Living things don’t all require/ light in the same degree. Louise Gluck

unaluna Elder Harridan x-hankster Member Since Jun 2011 Location: Milan/Michigan Posts: 39,864 (SuperPoster!) 12 66.4k hugs given	Sep 17, 2018 at 10:10 PM #133 (((Hireath))) parents are truly idiots sometimes. Its like they have no idea what it means to be an adult. So they look to THEIR CHILD to be the adult in the room.

Anonymous59898 Guest Posts: n/a	Sep 20, 2018 at 07:26 AM #140 Sadistic behavior. I had no idea the person I sought help from would turn out to be a sadist. Look it up if you are not familiar.