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Default Nov 23, 2018 at 02:29 PM
  #381
Started off by telling him I had been still a bit sad after I left on Wednesday, but it got better after a while. Although I
Possible trigger:
. He asked why, I said because I was angry with myself, for not being able to talk the way I want to.

He asked whether this was the same thing as what happens quite often. I didn't know what he was talking about. He explained that I often seem to be fighting with myself. First the session goes well, we talk and I seem relaxed. Then, at some point it suddenly switches and I hide even more than usual, want to cry, shake and overall seem very tense. He said that's what it looks like from the outside. But that he has a hard time telling what exactly is happening in those moments, why it happens and all that.

I replied that I know what he is referring to and that it indeed is the same thing in all those instances. I don't know what or how to talk. He wanted to know whether I decide to do this, but it just happens, I can't really control it. We talked about whether I do this with other people as well, suddenly change my whole body language, start to shake, all that. I said it sometimes happens when I'm by myself. Otherwise currently it only happens with him, but there used to be a friend (about who we have talked a lot during therapy) who had to see me like that a lot. T said how that friend always tried to comfort me by hugging me. Whether that was the goal of behaving like this, to get comfort? I laughed and told him that it never helped when that guy hugged me. I would cry for two or three hours on his bed while he hugged me. Sometimes I'd turn away from him to hide, and then turn towards him again.
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But as soon as the friend told me I'd have to leave soon, I could stop being upset and seem all normal from the outside again. So I don't think it's to get comfort, because comforting doesn't help.

At some point I mentioned that on Wednesday there had been a whole lot I wanted to say. But it didn't work, even though I wanted to. He asked what exactly I would have liked to say. I replied just share what's going on in my head, what I feel or see. He asked whether it could be that it's not important to talk about? I don't know whether it's important or not, but I do know that I'd like to share those things, that I often think how I'd like to share them but can't. But it would feel right to tell him those things.

We both got quiet. He asked what I was currently thinking about. I said about how I have trouble talking sometimes and that I'm sad it's like that. He wanted to know whether I'm ashamed of the things I don't say. I replied that most of the time I'm not ashamed. I don't feel a lot of shame in general. Most things are even topics we've already discussed before. For example on Wednesday, we have talked about every single memory that came up once before. But the memories changed so quickly, there were so many, that I felt if I would say something about one thing, by the time I had finished my sentence there would already be a new memory. And then I couldn't answer his questions properly. T asked whether I try to find the correct answer a lot. I said no, but I do want to have something to talk about if I mention something, I don't just want to throw it out there. That's also sometimes an issue, I know I want to discuss a certain topic, but don't know where to start, what to say, what exactly is even important to me about that topic. I just know I want to discuss it.

He mentioned it's one of our goals that I feel comfortable enough with myself to be able to just say whatever I want and feel it's okay the way I do it, no matter what he thinks about it.

He asked what the purpose was of behaving that way. He said if I do it, there must be a benefit, no matter how short that benefit lasts for. I said I don't want anything to change. He didn't understand that. I said I want everything between us to remain the same. He asked whether I'm afraid to change. I feel that it would be nice to change, to for example be able to relax and just tell him whatever I want to. So I don't think that's the case. He mentioned I might not need him anymore if I change. I told him I rather think if I start to talk about something and then don't have anything more to say, then he will have a bad impression. He said I don't want him to be angry. Whether I'm scared that he'd abandon me after I say something? I nodded. He said he had never even hinted at leaving me, nor would he ever do it. That this room was a good place to trust somebody. Of course there's always a small risk of something going wrong, but this is pretty much as good as it gets. But that he knows I'm extremely scared of abandonment and that it could well be that this fear is connected to me having trouble with talking. He said that probably instead of abandoning me the opposite would happen if I shared more.

He sounded like he wanted to wrap up, but then continued talking. I looked at him at some point, and when I looked away he mentioned how I looked at him without him telling me to, that this tells him it was good to talk about all this. I looked at him again and he looked as excited as a small boy, he seemed really genuinely happy that I managed to do it twice.

Then we started scheduling for next week.
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Default Nov 24, 2018 at 04:57 AM
  #382
Quote:
Originally Posted by LabRat27 View Post
(super long, tbh mostly writing this for myself because I always forget details after a while)

I asked him what he thought I heard from him Monday
he said we talked about a lot of things, asked me to specify
I said it was about my father
He wasn't sure. Reminded me that mind reading is a cognitive distortion. He didn't want to guess, he wanted me to just tell him.
I was silent for like 30 seconds. Then I said "I told you that it mattered to me."
Today was this all over again but like this conversation had never happened.
More "your feelings are valid because you feel them" BS

I tried to tell him what I needed to hear. After it was clear I was frustrated and having a hard time talking about it and I stopped talking he asked what I was thinking, and finally like thirty seconds later I told him about a friend (who we've talked about before), and that this friend will tell me about certain things from his childhood and I'll say "dude, you know how ****ed up that is, right?" and it'll turn into him half joking, "you mean that isn't normal?" and I'll be like "um, no, I'm pretty sure that most parents don't [do this super ****ed up thing] and that that would **** up any child." And my therapist asked about my friend blaming himself and I said yes. He and I make the same kinds of self deprecating jokes about just having been weak, needing to suck it up, etc.
Then my therapist acknowledged how ****ed up the stuff my friend's parents did was (objectively super ****ed up, I described it to my therapist as "a list of red flags") and basically told me that just because my parents weren't that bad didn't mean I didn't have the right to be hurt

Cool, but that's not what I was asking for. The point was that I validate my friend's struggles when I tell him that what his parents did was definitely not okay and that it would have been detrimental to any child, it's not just that he was sensitive or weak or whatever. I don't just tell him that his feelings are valid because he feels them.
I don't know if my therapist understood that that was my point and chose not to acknowledge it because he knew he couldn't give me the answer I wanted to hear.

He also objected to my use of "****ed up" earlier in the session to describe how I turned out. I didn't think it was derogatory in the same way he seemed to. It seemed to actually bother him, but to me it's just easier than listing all the issues I have. I didn't say "completely ****ed up in every way and doomed to be ****ed up forever," but I think it's pretty fair to call myself "****ed up" based on the number of disorders and hospitalizations.

The session started with me bringing up that some things he'd said last time had bothered me. I had my journal and he asked me to read from it because he knew that meant I'd written about it. I told him about how the whole "find meaning" thing had upset me and that telling me that I was "empathetic and kind" felt like it was more about what I could do for other people. He asked if I thought that's what he meant and I said no.

At the end, with like a minute left he seemed to remember how the session started and asked if the part I'd read was everything I'd written/been upset about and I said nope.
There wasn't much he could say or do about it at that point. He made it clear that he wanted me to be able to talk about all the things I was upset about or whatever.
I left feeling somewhat bitter and hoping it would bother him a bit, because it's going to be bothering me all weekend.
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Default Nov 24, 2018 at 07:21 AM
  #383
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChickenNoodleSoup View Post
Started off by telling him I had been still a bit sad after I left on Wednesday, but it got better after a while. Although I
Possible trigger:
. He asked why, I said because I was angry with myself, for not being able to talk the way I want to.

He asked whether this was the same thing as what happens quite often. I didn't know what he was talking about. He explained that I often seem to be fighting with myself. First the session goes well, we talk and I seem relaxed. Then, at some point it suddenly switches and I hide even more than usual, want to cry, shake and overall seem very tense. He said that's what it looks like from the outside. But that he has a hard time telling what exactly is happening in those moments, why it happens and all that.

I replied that I know what he is referring to and that it indeed is the same thing in all those instances. I don't know what or how to talk. He wanted to know whether I decide to do this, but it just happens, I can't really control it. We talked about whether I do this with other people as well, suddenly change my whole body language, start to shake, all that. I said it sometimes happens when I'm by myself. Otherwise currently it only happens with him, but there used to be a friend (about who we have talked a lot during therapy) who had to see me like that a lot. T said how that friend always tried to comfort me by hugging me. Whether that was the goal of behaving like this, to get comfort? I laughed and told him that it never helped when that guy hugged me. I would cry for two or three hours on his bed while he hugged me. Sometimes I'd turn away from him to hide, and then turn towards him again.
Possible trigger:
But as soon as the friend told me I'd have to leave soon, I could stop being upset and seem all normal from the outside again. So I don't think it's to get comfort, because comforting doesn't help.

At some point I mentioned that on Wednesday there had been a whole lot I wanted to say. But it didn't work, even though I wanted to. He asked what exactly I would have liked to say. I replied just share what's going on in my head, what I feel or see. He asked whether it could be that it's not important to talk about? I don't know whether it's important or not, but I do know that I'd like to share those things, that I often think how I'd like to share them but can't. But it would feel right to tell him those things.

We both got quiet. He asked what I was currently thinking about. I said about how I have trouble talking sometimes and that I'm sad it's like that. He wanted to know whether I'm ashamed of the things I don't say. I replied that most of the time I'm not ashamed. I don't feel a lot of shame in general. Most things are even topics we've already discussed before. For example on Wednesday, we have talked about every single memory that came up once before. But the memories changed so quickly, there were so many, that I felt if I would say something about one thing, by the time I had finished my sentence there would already be a new memory. And then I couldn't answer his questions properly. T asked whether I try to find the correct answer a lot. I said no, but I do want to have something to talk about if I mention something, I don't just want to throw it out there. That's also sometimes an issue, I know I want to discuss a certain topic, but don't know where to start, what to say, what exactly is even important to me about that topic. I just know I want to discuss it.

He mentioned it's one of our goals that I feel comfortable enough with myself to be able to just say whatever I want and feel it's okay the way I do it, no matter what he thinks about it.

He asked what the purpose was of behaving that way. He said if I do it, there must be a benefit, no matter how short that benefit lasts for. I said I don't want anything to change. He didn't understand that. I said I want everything between us to remain the same. He asked whether I'm afraid to change. I feel that it would be nice to change, to for example be able to relax and just tell him whatever I want to. So I don't think that's the case. He mentioned I might not need him anymore if I change. I told him I rather think if I start to talk about something and then don't have anything more to say, then he will have a bad impression. He said I don't want him to be angry. Whether I'm scared that he'd abandon me after I say something? I nodded. He said he had never even hinted at leaving me, nor would he ever do it. That this room was a good place to trust somebody. Of course there's always a small risk of something going wrong, but this is pretty much as good as it gets. But that he knows I'm extremely scared of abandonment and that it could well be that this fear is connected to me having trouble with talking. He said that probably instead of abandoning me the opposite would happen if I shared more.

He sounded like he wanted to wrap up, but then continued talking. I looked at him at some point, and when I looked away he mentioned how I looked at him without him telling me to, that this tells him it was good to talk about all this. I looked at him again and he looked as excited as a small boy, he seemed really genuinely happy that I managed to do it twice.

Then we started scheduling for next week.

I related to so much of this. Thank you for sharing
 
 
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Default Nov 27, 2018 at 03:50 PM
  #384
T yesterday. One of the most emotional sessions (read: crying) I'd had in there in a long time. Went back and sat down. T: "Well, apparently you survived Thanksgiving. At least the physical part of you. Guess I can't say psychologically." I smiled and said it was OK, shared some details about that.

Told him about successfully finishing 5K, and he seemed happy for me. Talked about that a few minutes, including me running in cold weather. Which led to discussion of his office policy in inclement weather (he's usually there). And of the winter forecast. Me: "Sorry, I'm sort of rambling." T: "It's OK, I'm rambling, too."

Me: "I was deciding what to talk about today. I think I need to talk more about ex-MC. He's been on my mind for some reason lately. And like today I let a song I associate with him play on shuffle, thinking I'd be OK, but then I ended up crying." T talked about the effect music can have on people, saying, "And I know you're a music person." He said that maybe the song made me think about the positive things from the relationship, and then it was like my brain kicked in and reminded me what had ultimately happened, and that's why I got upset. I said that made sense. How that and a few other songs, I associated with when the transference was mostly positive, how I'd leave session feeling all warm and fuzzy. But then it shifted and became more painful.

T said how I couldn't take that feeling home with me and I said kind of. Not in the sense of, if it was a friend or H, I could ask to meet them for lunch or talk the next day. But I said that at one point, it felt like I held ex-MC and his caring inside of me. But then after the rupture a year ago, it's like I didn't feel that anymore. And that's why I felt (after a few months) that we had to stop seeing him, because that feeling was gone and I couldn't really continue. Because it felt like a shell of what it had been.

T said that maybe it wasn't so much ex-MC himself that I missed, but the way he made me feel. He got the sense that ex-MC made me feel something that I'd been looking for since childhood. Me: "Yes, he made me feel truly accepted and understood." T said maybe I was grieving the loss of that feeling rather than the loss of ex-MC himself. I said I hadn't thought of it that way, but it made sense.

T also said he wondered if part of what I was struggling with was whether that feeling I got from ex-MC was real, based on how things turned out. I agreed. He said it sounded like complicated grief. I asked if that would explain why I seemed to randomly get emotional about it. He said yes.

I said I thought part of it was also that the anniversary of the rupture was coming up. But how maybe it's also just the holiday season, like I got a bit emotional driving back on Thanksgiving. Me: "I feel cheesy saying this, but in the past, on holidays, I'd be thinking of being thankful for ex-MC." T said wasn't cheesy, that he'd gotten thank-you emails from a few clients on Thanksgiving. I said I had thought a bit on that drive about being thankful for him (T), too, though didn't send an email.

We talked about how holidays can make people think more of people they'd lost and I mentioned my grandmother. I mentioned the email I'd sent to ex-MC and ex-T a few Christmases ago, after watching It's a Wonderful Life, where I said maybe they were both like my Clarence, my guardian angels. How in ex-MC's email reply, he'd seemed touched by it, but then in session, he said, "Oh I see, you're comparing me to a wingless angel, like a fallen angel, so like Satan?" T: "That sounds about like ex-MC's sense of humor." Me: "Yeah."

The song I'd been listening to that day came up again. Me: "It's really just the last line of the song that I associate with him. 'Nothing can touch us, my love.' But then something did...I guess...touch us. Most of the song isn't relevant, as it's about drinking, being drunk and feeling happy--but I guess being drunk is a fleeting feeling, too. Hm..." T: "Well,..I guess you could stay drunk." Me: "That's probably not a good solution." T: "No."

T asked if it was all songs by that artist that I associated with him, or other ones, too. I said that artist had a pretty big catalog, so there were plenty of their songs that I didn't associate with him. Though there were songs by a few other artists, too. T: "I was just wondering how many songs were in the ex-MC library."

He talked about how music can really bring us back to a moment. T: "My junior year college roommate and I probably listened to Pink Floyd's The Wall 200 times. So if I hear anything from that, it makes me think of that time." He said how smell can have a similar effect. And mentioned a former client who used to go with her ex-H to a restaurant where they baked their own bread. (Me: "Subway?") And since they split up, if she smells fresh-baked bread somewhere it upsets her, because it makes her think of the good times and worry she'll never have that with anyone again, or at least not that kind of trust.

I said maybe it was that way a bit with ex-MC. Since he was technically my first marriage counselor. T: "But he was more than that to you." Me: "Yes...And I know we've discussed whether it was a romantic thing...how you said that email I sent him seemed like a love letter, the 'let's run away together,' how you've compared it to a romantic breakup...And I don't really know what it was...." T: "Could one have an emotional affair without romance being part of it? I think so...not that I'm saying you had an emotional affair." Me: "I think I know what you mean...it was just confusing, because he seemed like other things to me, too."

I talked more about the feeling I got with ex-MC, the feeling accepted and understood. Me: "At times I've felt little moments of that with you. Which is good but also scary." T looked pleased to hear that, but I don't think he actually said anything.

Somewhere in there, T asked if I'd heard back from ex-MC, that he remembered how fairly recently I'd emailed him during a conflict I'd had with T, where I'd considered terminating. Me: "He didn't reply to my initial 'I miss your caring and being open about it' email, and he was probably right not to respond to that. But then I emailed again asking if he had recommendations for a T who was good with attachment, and he did reply to that, giving me a name. I had told him in that email that I had been really trying with you, and ex-MC said he realized and appreciated that. And then I ended up replying to his recommendation, saying you and I had come to an understanding, but I'd keep the name if I needed it in the future. And he didn't reply to that. Which is OK."

I made some offhanded comment about bad therapists, related to PC. T: "Are you saying that you think ex-MC was a bad therapist?" Me: "No, not really...I just wish he'd held stronger boundaries from the beginning. Or maybe not even that, if he'd been consistent with looser boundaries. Really, just been consistent with boundaries in general..." T agreed.

We were almost out of time. It came up again how I had felt the positive stuff fairly early on with ex-MC, how I'd had this certain image of who he was that ended up shifting near the end, and that was really difficult for me. Because I didn't know what to believe. T (joking): "I guess maybe it's good I set expectations a bit lower in the beginning with you then." Me: "Yeah, that's why you came off as really arrogant at first, right?" T: "Yes, it's like a chess match. But no,..I'm not smart enough to plan something like that out."

It was time to stop. We both got out our phones to schedule, but then kept talking for a couple minutes. T waited for me to look at my phone again to start the scheduling, like he wasn't trying to kick me out. Scheduled.

I went over to pay. Me: "I shouldn't shake your hand since D has a cold and I might be a carrier." T: "Plus I sneezed a little bit ago." Paid. I sort of waved to him. T: "It was good to see you." (Which...is exactly what ex-MC nearly always said as we were leaving, and which T has never said to me.) Me: "Uh, you, too." I held back more tears until I got to the car.

Last edited by LonesomeTonight; Nov 27, 2018 at 05:03 PM..
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Default Nov 27, 2018 at 06:10 PM
  #385
LT- Sounds like a really good session.

You and your T both had some great insights...especially the part about missing "the feeling" you had with Ex-MC more so than missing him as an individual. I think this is what I experience too when I miss and yearn for my T. I miss the feelings I have when with her (acceptance, non-judgement, caring, emotional holding, etc) more so than I miss her as a person- especially since I only know her as my therapist and not really as a person at all. Or not as a whole person anyway. I only know one small part of her...the person she is in the therapy room doing her therapist thing! Anyway, I'm digressing and rambling now.

PS- I wish I could remember (and reflect back) on my sessions as well as you do. I think it would help me a lot.
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Default Nov 27, 2018 at 08:04 PM
  #386
I swore off going back to my therapist. She really upset me. I’m still upset. But I don’t know what else to do at this point. It’s the holidays so finding someone new immediately will probably be impossible. I really need to talk to someone. The people I message on Facebook stopped responding, and the people here are great but I just need something more. So I called her to set up an appointment. I left a message. Even if I can just unload a little bit I think it would be helpful. I have a lot of stuff I’m thinking about that I’m just holding in.

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Default Nov 27, 2018 at 10:56 PM
  #387
Finally saw t again today after almost a month. We talked about different PTSD stuff and about me getting other services. We talked about the possibility of me going to a day program and she also told me she doesn't know if art t is coming back and that maybe I should see a different art therapist.
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Default Nov 28, 2018 at 01:36 AM
  #388
New T noticed me holding my stuffed animal during our session, even though he was kind of hiding behind my purse. She asked me what his name was. It felt good to be seen, because little did she know at the time, he is very special to me. Old T used to hug him so he’d hold the connection for me between our sessions. I told T how I cut off his leg when I was mad at her once and then stitched it back on. She started going on about how poetic that was and I started cracking up. Poetic?!?! lol, I would most certainly not call my angry spurts of rage and idealization for T poetic.
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Default Nov 28, 2018 at 09:35 AM
  #389
After saying hi, we started discussing my job search. One company let me work with them for half a day to see how it fits me. I'm very interested in the work they do, but it's further away from home, 30 minutes travel time. T wanted to know what the company does exactly, which I tried to explain. We talked for a bit about me having difficulties deciding between that company and another one that just offered me a job today. When I told him about the offer, he was like 'Oh, they offered you a job? You don't say...'. Felt like giving him an ironic answer but didn't.

We got quiet after a while. I said that I didn't have a lot of time to continue reading the book we'd been talking about. I thought a bit about what we had discussed on Friday. I had realized that I did a similar thing with my partner a while back. But not anymore. T mentioned that we had discussed how there has to be some reason for me doing this, some kind of benefit. He asked me again what I thought that might be. I said it's different from person to person. With my partner, it's that I wanted him to know I'm suffering. But I also wanted him to suffer at the same time. T asked whether I wanted to share the pain, or whether I wanted him to be the only person suffering. I said the second one is more accurate. It was during a difficult time in our relationship.

T asked what's the reason for doing it in therapy. I said it happens when I have difficulties talking. There was some silence again. I think he said some things, but I can't remember what. He asked me what was happening for me. I replied first I had thought about problems with my partner, then I got sad. Then angry. Angry at my partner? No, at myself. Why? I said I felt like talking about things, but couldn't. After being quiet for a bit, I said I'd like to talk about it... He asked about what, something happening right now, something from the past?

It was from the past. I started with something, but I can't remember the exact phrasing. I told T about how my partner had cheated on me a while back while being gone for some sort of camp. I figured out by looking at pictures online of the camp. I tried calling him about 30 times before he picked up. When he finally did pick up, I yelled at him and he went back to his hotel room. He broke up with me at that point. Then a few days later he came back to the country, I picked him up from the train station. We discussed everything at his place and I was allowed to sleep at his place. The next morning we ended up sleeping together. From there on it was really complicated. He continued having contact with the other girl and at the same time I lived with him. After a while, he invited her over while I was there, she called her ex for a few hours in our bedroom while we watched TV in the kitchen. At some point she started to cry and I went over to comfort her and hugged her. A few days after, my partner essentially decided she was too much work and wanted to get back together, but have it at the same time such that he could go after other girls whenever he wanted to.

T mentioned how that was probably very hard for me. How on the one hand I was probably so scared of being alone that I agreed to stay with my boyfriend, but on the other hand I was probably angry and disappointed. He said he didn't want to think too much for me, but whether that seemed accurate? I nodded and cried. He asked me why I had a hard time starting to talk about it earlier. I said it was because it hurts. He asked what hurts so much and I said it hurts to at first be left and hurting over that, then having a crush on the girl your partner left you for, then staying with a guy because you're scared even though you question whether you like guys at all. T was shortly surprised by me falling in love with that woman, but he didn't question it too much.

He asked whether I had been angry. I told him about how I destroyed our front door at some point because I got mad. But I stayed because I was too scared of being alone, of not having anyone. I cried some more. T asked what I was thinking about. I said if I'd be normal, I would probably currently live with a girlfriend in some home that I like and have had five partners before that. But now... I feel happy currently, but I still feel like it could have been different. He agreed with me, saying how other women would have probably told a cheating partner to leave and if they were gay, they would have found another woman they liked. He said it's okay to be sad about this and asked me whether I could feel sadness. I couldn't really. He said how that was okay, to just say how it is. I cried more. Sometimes he talked, he said it would be okay to be sad. I told him I feel empty. He said that's okay and to just accept the way I feel. We talked about the switching moods for a bit. He also asked whether it could be that my brain interferes to much with my feelings. Whether I think of certain things too often and it prevents me from really feeling my emotions. I agreed that this could be a factor, though I was not thinking a whole lot at that point.

I cried some more and we continued talking about my relationship for a while. Then he said we should wrap up. I was still crying at that point so I asked whether I could have a minute to collect myself. He said sure and asked whether I wanted a tissue. He got up and brought me one. He waited for me to clean up a bit and to put on my shoes. The he asked whether I was still up for our session on Friday. Of course I was. We shook hands and he asked whether I still had enough of my medication and all that. I said yes, although I felt it was just some question to make me feel a bit more normal, he had just written a prescription a few days back, of course I'm not out by now. But it was still nice, it helped transition back to the outside world.
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Default Nov 28, 2018 at 09:44 AM
  #390
T: I want to speak directly to the part of you that doesn't feel okay, but I don't know how to do that without capsizing the raft (in reference to an analogy I had used)

Me: What do you want to say to it?

T: You are safe enough here. And it's okay to say what you need.

Me: I don't know what I need but I know what I feel like I need.

T: Stick with what you know.

Me: I feel like I need you to believe in my okayness even when I don't.

T: I do.
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Default Nov 28, 2018 at 04:26 PM
  #391
I set up an appointment for next Thursday. She didn’t sound all that happy to hear from me. I’m sure she won’t be rude and nasty like my doctor was right before I switched. I really don’t have another option at this point though.

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Default Nov 28, 2018 at 05:58 PM
  #392
Pure and utter hell. I can't believe I am another "abandonment" story now. therapy is such a mess.

Spent the whole session in tears and silence

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Default Nov 29, 2018 at 06:45 AM
  #393
I’m not even sure how to explain what happened today, but I left feeling relieved and uplifted which is not usual for me. I’m aware that it takes a while for things to sink in with me, so maybe I’ll feel differently in a day or a week. For today, he seemed genuine and like he really cared about how I feel and I couldn’t help but be touched by that.

I had sent him an email saying I was still bothered by how he abruptly and unilaterally decided to stop email replies and I went into detail about how it felt for me and why it still stings sometimes. I wasn’t fishing for an apology but I appreciate that he took ownership of how the email fiasco went down and he seemed sincere when he said he F’ed up (I’ve never heard him swear before) and that he did not want for me to have the experience of feeling like the rug was pulled out from under me which we both know has been a common experience for me in the past. He said I can’t feel safe if I’m waiting for that to happen.

I believe that his intention for stopping replies was good even if his method was not ideal. He said he felt like his replies were enabling something that felt unhealthy. I do strangely feel better and more present in our sessions since he stopped replies, but I may still need to process the black & white way of looking at email responses as good or bad. He compared email responses to hugs which I thought was interesting because I’ve never asked for one, but know from this forum that that can be a huge deal for some people. I’m assuming he wouldn’t give hugs and I wish I could remember what his reasoning was, but I can’t. I guess I can accept that he’s human and has flaws and in a way that might be better for our relationship. Today he showed me that he is willing to be patient, allow me to express criticism and not get defensive. He took me seriously.

It felt genuine when he said that he reads my emails multiple times and believes that what I have to say is insightful and thoughtful and important. He always remembers even small details of what I’ve written many weeks ago and that always catches me off guard and I’m touched by that. Although I’m still a bit sad about not having email responses, this is much more meaningful to me than an email response.

I asked him if it bothers him that I’m always so skeptical and doubtful of therapy and always tell him how hard it is to come to sessions and occasionally talk about quitting or finding a new T. I said that in the rest of my life I’m actually upbeat and positive so this was weird for me. He said yes, he is affected by that and is not used to having that response from clients, but is glad that I’m honest and transparent with him and that we should continue to explore why therapy often feels so hard for me. After I left I felt relief which was a nice feeling to have for a change. I hope it lasts.
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Default Nov 29, 2018 at 09:53 AM
  #394
Today’s session is hard to put into words. Before she arrived, I was thinking about how work is the only place I currently feel safe. R knocked on the door, and I took a deep breath to steady myself before answering.

As we sat down, she asked whether I was OK, and I burst into tears. ‘I feel like I want to be close to you today, so I can’t lose you again.’ She moved quickly to sit on the floor next to me, and took hold of my hands.

‘Do you want a hug?’

I could not speak, but must have made a noise that sounded affirmative.

‘It’s OK, Lost. Let it out…you’re safe.’

I cried for what felt like a long time, and then said ‘Things came to a head this week’, before talking about my friend leaving, Mum’s back and everything happening at once.

‘I just want to feel safe in my own mind, and that doesn’t seem to be possible!’

‘Do you want a tissue?’ R asked whether I wanted to do some deep breathing, and then offered to do it with me. ‘Just take some nice little deep breaths….’

R asked a number of questions about Mum’s back, and I said that I appreciated Mum being transparent with me.

‘But there’s nothing I can do to make this go away!’

‘This all happened this week?’

‘Monday. I got a message on social media from somebody I’ve considered a dear friend for the last five years…Background. At last year’s Christmas gathering with friends, I reconnected with a friend I hadn’t seen in ages. I don’t want to do the maths, because when I think about how long it has been since I attended the music sessions, it’s frightening. I didn’t tell him that I was going to the party, because I wanted it to be a surprise. He said it made his evening, and then dropped it into the conversation that he and his family might be leaving the county next year. I didn’t hear from him for a while, and then got that message on Monday where he apologised for not seeing me before he went, ‘but in the scheme of things all good relationships we form are as valuable as they ever were at any given point.’ I think he was trying to get himself off the hook.’

‘That doesn’t sound like it was done in the kindest of ways.’
‘No. I had hoped that when I felt strong enough, or well enough…”Yes” to return to the music events that there would be that extra support.’

‘He represents safety.’
‘I hadn’t thought about it that way, but yes.’
‘The word abandonment comes up for me.’

R asked how I was feeling at that moment.

‘Frustrated, fragile and defeated.’
‘I get that from you.’
‘I don’t want to be this fragile creature.’
‘And yet you showed fragility today.’

We talked about some of the complications regarding Open Studios and how I don’t really want to be there at the moment, but feel like I have to.

‘Is that for you, or for someone else?’
‘For Mum.’

It became very difficult to talk after that, as I was fighting another wave.

‘I’m fighting another wave of whatever just happened.’
‘Let it out if you need to.’
R asked how I was feeling, and I offered ‘ashamed’ and ‘guilty’.

‘Ashamed? Because you cried?’
‘Yes. My shoulders are burning. The thing is, it never feels finished.’
‘It sounds as though you expect some kind of release…”Right, I’ve cried, so I’m going to feel better now.”’
‘Exactly. During the break, the thought came to me clearly several times…”I want to be with my emotions, and I simultaneously want to climb out of my own skin.”’

‘I didn’t bring my resource, but we talked last time about the head, or however you want to put it, being full, and it is good to turn on the tap and let some out. You sound as though you have exhausted all of your coping mechanisms…and I feel like I’m holding on to you pretty tight at the moment.’
We talked about how I spend so much energy trying to deal with things in the past that there is little to spare for anything that might go wrong in the present. The critic was chewing me out at this point, but I did my damnedest to ignore it.

I looked for a pen as I wanted to draw something. She offered me hers, and I drew a basic image.

‘Freehand circle, not bad.’

We discussed the connotations of what I had drawn, and R suggested that rather than keeping emotion on the outside, I might allow it to come a little closer.

‘I understand why I cannot allow myself to feel the full extent of it, but I won’t even allow myself to touch the emotion of it.’
I was silent for a little while, and then said ‘I’m sorry.’

‘You are sorry to me?’
‘Yes. I was not expecting to have an outburst today.’
‘If you break it down, when somebody says they are sorry, it implies that they have done something wrong or hurt somebody. All you have done is trust me and feel safe.’

‘Yes.’

‘I am not saying that I don’t accept your apology. Apology accepted, but I actually take it as a compliment that you felt safe enough to cry with me. During all the time we have been working together, and despite the amount we have talked about it, I never thought that you would. As a counsellor, I have chosen this line of work, and if everyone apologised every time they got angry or cried, or expressed emotion…’

She said that she sensed regret, and although she obviously cannot control my emotional responses, she hopes that I will not beat myself up for crying.
She checked that I felt OK to end the session there, and invited me to email if I needed to check in. I said that I would probably go and have a lie down.

‘It felt strange sitting on the floor, but it felt right. You could have told me to sit properly.’
‘I appreciated the closeness.’
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Default Nov 29, 2018 at 10:48 AM
  #395
Luc: (talking about a cat, and crying a bit) ...I really miss her.
M: I can see you're really sad.

(a pause, whilst I look at his lovely concerned face)

Luc: it's hard for me to say this when you're looking at me like that...
M: (smiling) I don't know what to do about that!
Luc: ...sometimes I want to take the piss out of you. Like just then, I wanted to say "WOW, well done, how did you work that one out?" ...but that's so mean - you're so nice!
M: well, I disagree with both those statements...
Luc: oh, okay... I guess I will take the piss out of you then!

It's just really cute that he thinks he isn't nice. He's nice as f**k.
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Default Nov 29, 2018 at 02:30 PM
  #396
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucozader View Post
Luc: (talking about a cat, and crying a bit) ...I really miss her.
M: I can see you're really sad.

(a pause, whilst I look at his lovely concerned face)

Luc: it's hard for me to say this when you're looking at me like that...
M: (smiling) I don't know what to do about that!
Luc: ...sometimes I want to take the piss out of you. Like just then, I wanted to say "WOW, well done, how did you work that one out?" ...but that's so mean - you're so nice!
M: well, I disagree with both those statements...
Luc: oh, okay... I guess I will take the piss out of you then!

It's just really cute that he thinks he isn't nice. He's nice as f**k.
I've told mine that he gets one stupid shrink comment (e.g. "I can see that you're sad," "if you did know the answer to my question, what would it be?") per week.

He's getting better--makes more empathetic noises and fewer inane comments (though maybe that was more about this paper than about my feedback; unclear). And he's at least learned to precede his super-shrinky statements with an admission that he's about to say something corny (e.g. "I realize this is going to sound shrink-like, but did that interaction with that patient remind you at all of your dynamic with your parents?"), which somehow ameliorates my annoyance.

Also I'm sorry about your cat, luc
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Default Nov 29, 2018 at 04:36 PM
  #397
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Originally Posted by chihirochild View Post
I've told mine that he gets one stupid shrink comment (e.g. "I can see that you're sad," "if you did know the answer to my question, what would it be?") per week.
I think this keeps things real.
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Default Nov 30, 2018 at 10:50 AM
  #398
T yesterday. He said "hey" quietly as I walked past him, and I said "Hi." Went back and sat down. Me: "I brought a list of things to discuss. I'm not sure where to start. I guess I could start with last session/the email. Or I could just update you on other stuff first."

I mentioned pelvic ultrasound I'd had Tuesday (as ovarian cancer screen--my mom had it) and how the radiologist had been very open with what she was seeing, so I wasn't as concerned as last time, so would just wait for results. (He seemed confused about my having one, even though we'd discussed it a week ago, but seemed to remember when I referenced something from that discussion). I said how also, H had heard this morning that there wouldn't be layoffs on his team. T said that was good, must be a relief, I said yes.

I mentioned last session. T: "I got that sense that was a conversation you wanted to continue." Me: "Yes." I said I'd thought more about his comment that maybe it wasn't so much ex-MC himself I missed, but the feeling I got from him. And how that seemed accurate. I said something about him abandoning me, then corrected myself: "I mean, I guess he didn't technically abandon me. He was still willing to keep seeing us, it's just that some of the boundaries had changed." T: "That suggests even more that it was the feeling rather than the person. If it was just about ex-MC, then you would have been content to just keep seeing him." Me: "That's a good point...After the phone call a year ago, it was like I didn't have the same feeling from him anymore. I kept trying for a few months to get it back, but it was just gone...So I didn't feel I could continue." T: "And I imagine if you were to pick up seeing him again, it wouldn't feel the same to you because of what happened." Me: "No, it probably wouldn't."

I said I'd kind of wanted to talk to H about the session Monday, but I got the sense that he didn't want to and explained why. I said maybe he felt weird talking about stuff with ex-MC, especially where it involved love. T: "So maybe you needed to talk to someone else about it then. Were you able to?" I said I'd talked to a couple friends that night, and it had helped some. Though the next night, a friend was in crisis and I wanted to help them through that and didn't want to talk about my stuff. I said how H was like "You're not responsible for them." But I said how they'd helped me with stuff and I wanted to be there for them, too. T: "You're a very caring person. It seems like you and H differ in how you feel about those sorts of things." Me: "Yeah...I want to help if someone needs it. And I have a history with some friends where I'd maybe be there for them in the middle of the night, and they'd be there for me. I think it's different for H."

I said how some friends' T's had really let them down this week and described what happened. Me: "So I know you say that you aren't going anywhere because I'm too much or something else related to me. But I guess I worry that something would happen unrelated to me, that you would move or decide that you want a more regular 40-hour-a-week job or that you want to just focus on sport psychology instead." T: "Any of those things could happen. Or I could get hit by a car." Me: "I understand that." (Thinking, way to reassure me there, T...)

Back to ex-MC. I said how part of what was difficult about the ending was that, before the rupture happened, I'd had this belief that I could have eventually just walked away from ex-MC, feeling I'd gotten what I'd needed. T: "Do you really think you could have just walked away?" Me: "I think? I mean, I guess he put the thing in my head about working through transference, where if I worked through it then it's like I'd be healed or whatever. So I felt like I wanted to do that. To reach a point where I just felt on my own like I could leave." T: "I don't know that you'd have been able to do that." Me: "Yeah...I mean, that's part of why I started seeing you, because I felt stuck. When ex-MC had canceled at the last minute that one week, and I'd thought I'd be able to wait till next week to see him but then got really upset. I mean, that was just a week, I'd be seeing him the next week. And like if I couldn't deal with that..."

Me: "And I thought a few times, maybe I just needed him to get mad at me, to act like a jerk to me, that would help me be able to step away. Though I didn't really want that. Then I guess it eventually happened, and it felt like sh**. But...I guess it did get me away from him, right?" T: "Yes. But I do wonder if you'd ever have left on your own otherwise." Me: "I don't know." T: "Because if you were still getting that feeling from him, wouldn't you have continued to want that feeling?" Me: "Yeah...I guess I just thought at one point, I'd be like, 'OK, my cup is full,' or whatever. But I guess... maybe not. Maybe I would have just kept wanting that feeling as long as I could have it." T: "Yes, I think so." Me: "But then...I know it wasn't a sustainable relationship."

T: "All relationships ultimately end, whether you die or the other person dies, or you drift apart or something else happens." Me: "...I guess that's true." T: "But that doesn't mean they're not worth having." Me: "Yeah. I mean I guess I could choose to just avoid getting in relationships to avoid getting hurt." T: "I don't think you'd be able to avoid them. Because of who you are." Me: "I think you're right. I'd still feel the need to pursue them." T: "Yes, I think you would. And I've worked with people who've chosen to just avoid relationships to keep from getting hurt. And they end up being very lonely. They may just end up with a few superficial relationships, but then something would happen where they need to rely on someone, like what happened with one of my clients, and they realize that they're alone." Me: "Yeah..."

Me: "So how do I deal with the fear of losing relationships? Is it about becoming strong enough in myself?" T: "Partly. I was thinking more that you have the knowledge that they're not going to last, but to have confidence that you'll be able to get through it when they do end. That you might feel sad and grieve, but know you'll get through it." Me: "I guess...I mean, I didn't think I'd survive leaving ex-MC. While I was seeing him, anytime I thought about leaving him, I'd start crying. But I guess I have survived that, though it's been hard. It's helping to process it with you, though."

T: "It seems difficult for you to mourn the relationships you've lost." Me: "Yes...actually, that makes me wonder...I think maybe sometimes I avoid mourning them. I just try to push them aside and move forward and don't really process it. Like my grandmother. Or my former best friend. I never really dealt with them. So then they come back and affect me at random times. Though I guess that's normal with grief in general." T: "Yes." Me: "But I guess I wonder...if I avoid grieving them, then maybe I feel like I can't handle a loss? Because I haven't been through the grieving process?" T: "That could be." Me: "So maybe it's why it's so hard for me to grieve ex-MC...but it's also really important for me to work through it. To understand that I *can* work through losses in the future."

Talked more about why ex-MC had such a strong effect on me. T: "He sensed this need in you and tried to do what he could to meet it." Me: "Yes...it's like he hit on all the receptors. Like maybe H can hit on a few of them or friends can, but he could hit all of them." I said how it could feel almost intoxicating. T: "That makes sense, it's why people say they use drugs, to get that perfect high." Me: "Yeah, and I mean...I would feel an actual physical reaction to sessions with him. Like a warm, fuzzy feeling that could last until the evening or the next morning. I'm not sure what it's from, like a hormone, like oxytocin maybe? The one that bonds parents and kids? It's not sexual, I know what that feels like. But...I also feel it sometimes with you, and that kind of scares me." (I stared at the floor for that last line.)

T: "Is it maybe optimism?" Me: "The feeling? I'm not sure it's that, like I said it's a physical feeling, too." T: "Or hopefulness?" Me: "Maybe? Again, it's also physical. Though hope fits more than optimism, because I think of optimism like 'Yay, everything will be OK.'" T said he thought optimism and hope meant the same thing. Me: "Yeah, this is the problem with working with an English major and copy editor..." Discussed a bit more, then I said, "Maybe it's feeling a connection?" T said that could be it, saying, as he's said before, how the relationship is considered the most important part of therapy and the best predictor of success. That it doesn't even have to be a particularly emotional connection, just a connection. Me: "Yeah, maybe the feeling is about the connection. Because I get something like that feeling with friends sometimes, too."

Talked about what I wanted and got from ex-MC. T: "I wonder if your mom would even be capable of giving that to you now." Me: "I don't know." T: "It would be something to give some thought to." Me: "And also, even if she could give it to me now, if I needed it when I was 6...would it be enough? Or could what ex-MC have given me ever have been enough?" T: "I don't know, but if you got it now with your mom, it could probably go a long way toward healing." Me: "Yes. Though I think with ex-MC, some healing happened. And a bit with you, too. I just don't think it's the same as if it happened when I was a kid." T wasn't sure about that. Was time to stop.

Confirmed schedule for next week. Me: "So...you're not planning on moving in the next few weeks, right?" T: "The next few weeks? Definitely not! Really I don't plan on ever moving at all." Me: "OK, good." T: "Just to let you know, I don't plan on taking any other time off next month. Like not around the holidays or anything." Me: "OK, good, thanks for letting me know that."

Went over to pay. T: "Are you feeling better?" Me: "You mean about the ex-MC stuff?" T: "No, your cold." Me: "Oh it was really my D who had one, I was just being careful in case I was a carrier." Shook hands as he said "Have a good weekend." Me: "You, too." T: "It's supposed to be 65 degrees on Sunday." Me: "Really? Wow." T: "Yes. Take care." Me: "You too."
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Default Nov 30, 2018 at 11:59 AM
  #399
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[FONT=&quot]

Talked more about why ex-MC had such a strong effect on me. T: "He sensed this need in you and tried to do what he could to meet it." Me: "Yes...it's like he hit on all the receptors. Like maybe H can hit on a few of them or friends can, but he could hit all of them." I said how it could feel almost intoxicating. T: "That makes sense, it's why people say they use drugs, to get that perfect high." Me: "Yeah, and I mean...I would feel an actual physical reaction to sessions with him. Like a warm, fuzzy feeling that could last until the evening or the next morning. I'm not sure what it's from, like a hormone, like oxytocin maybe? The one that bonds parents and kids? It's not sexual, I know what that feels like. But...I also feel it sometimes with you, and that kind of scares me." (I stared at the floor for that last line.)
It seemed like this session was very deeply, holistically, about the way you experience relationships and their endings. I think there is a lot of rich material there to mine for future relationships.

For me grief and loss has been very central to my therapy and healing in the past years. Sometimes it feels like my own task on this earth is to grieve.
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Default Nov 30, 2018 at 01:17 PM
  #400
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Originally Posted by Anne2.0 View Post
It seemed like this session was very deeply, holistically, about the way you experience relationships and their endings. I think there is a lot of rich material there to mine for future relationships.

For me grief and loss has been very central to my therapy and healing in the past years. Sometimes it feels like my own task on this earth is to grieve.

Yes, I think it was a really important session (along with Monday's). My T can be rather blunt and make me face harsh truths, but I think they're also things I need to hear and understand. My natural inclination is to want to believe in the fairy-tale "happily ever after" with relationships (not just romance), but I know that's also not realistic. And I think I could deal with relationships ending more easily if I don't expect them to last forever. And maybe then I could appreciate the here-and-now of them instead of worrying so much about losing them/abandonment.

I think I also needed to hear what he said on how I probably never would have left ex-MC on my own had things continued going well with him. Because I think he's right.
LonesomeTonight is online now  
 
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SalingerEsme
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