In Session Today: Part V

A snippet....

Me: (trying to jumble and mumble my way through how I feel)

T: (says something about a logjam)

Me: Yes! A logjam, that's exactly the right word. I come in here and have all of the words and can't get to the right one, than you pull out the exactly right word. This all feels like a logjam.

(pause)

Me: Logjams are dangerous. (meaning literal logjams--I grew up in logging country)

T (who knows that): Yes. They are.

T yesterday. As I walked by him, he said, "Hi there!" Me: "Hi." Went back and sat down (he was actually wearing his ring this time). T: "So I saw you heard back from ex-MC." Me: "Yes. When I wrote to you to let you know, I kept almost including these other comments about the email, but then I realized that it would suggest that I wanted you to reply about them. So I left those out." T smiled. Me: "See, I'm getting it, right?" T: "Yes you are!" Me: "And I'm applying it to communication with other people, too, I think." T: "Good! So how are you feeling about the email?"

Me: "I don't know. I expected to have more of a reaction to it than I did. I mean, I teared up for a few seconds, and I thought maybe it was partly because I had to keep myself together, because H was working from home and I was meeting my dad for Christmas shopping in an hour. But it's not like I got emotional later, either. And in the past, I'd have had more of a reaction." T: "What do you think is behind it?" Me: "I don't know. I mean, his response was in the middle. Like between what I wanted, which would be a true apology, like 'I'm sorry I hurt you.' And it wasn't the other extreme, which would have been cutting me off, telling me no more contact. So it's not like I'm feeling all warm and fuzzy or that I feel really hurt." T: "So, it's like he gave you vanilla, you asked for ice cream and he gave you vanilla." Me: "Well, except I like vanilla ice cream." T: "OK, bad comparison. Then he gave you Neapolitan." (the kind where it's 1/3 vanilla, 1/3 chocolate, and 1/3 strawberry) Me: "Yeah, OK."

I glanced at the email from ex-MC that I'd printed out. "Hey, with the Neopolitan thing, that kinda fits, because part talked about me, part you, and part H, so like the three different flavors." T: "I'm not sure I want to know which flavor I'd be!" Me: "Probably not! And like, is it good strawberry with pieces of actual strawberries, or the fake strawberry?"

We got back to the email. I said how in mentioning H twice in the end, it was like he was trying to shift focus off of me. T: "Like he was being careful to assert boundaries." Me: "Yeah. Like it wasn't 'I enjoyed and valued working with you.' It was, 'I enjoyed and valued working with you and H.' Which feels different."

Me: "And he put a lot of emphasis on my seeing you, like he said the thing about it being a sign of strength I stuck with you." T: "He was probably trying to be positive and focus on where you are now." Me: "Yeah, but I wonder what he'd have said if I'd decided to switch T's?" T: "He probably would have said that he hoped the new T would work out for you." Me: "True. Or what if I'd decided to stop therapy and try, say, meditation? He would have said that was good, too?" T: "Probably." Me: "What about if I said I was switching to Scientology?" T: "That I don't think he'd be positive about!"

I said I wondered if this email could possibly be what I needed to get to the acceptance stage. Like a last-ditch effort to see if he'd truly apologize. T: "Could be." Me: "And when I got his response...I mean, it was nice enough, I guess. But I also didn't really get the 'fix' from it like we'd talked about last time." T: "You didn't? That's interesting." Me: "Yeah...and I feel like my not getting that would make me more reluctant to email him again, at least not anytime soon." T: "Until maybe you're feeling vulnerable again." Me: "I don't know, I still may not want to. I feel like I should take him off my mental list of supports." T: "I wouldn't do anything to shorten that list." Me: "Yeah, I guess maybe just move him much further down it." T: "Yes."

I think I said something about putting ex-MC behind me. T said with people who are securely attached (as in, not me!), they can hold another person's feelings with them and don't need the person there. And they can also hold stuff from past interactions with people, too. Like they can recall that they had that connection with someone, value it, and trust that they can feel it again with someone else. He said he hopes I could get to that place with ex-MC. I said I wished I could get there, too, to the point where I could fondly remember positive interactions between us, but I'm not there yet. And that I wanted to be able to feel good about the positive stuff and how the relationship really meant something to me and was healing to me at times, without having to feel that it was tainted by the ending. T said he hopes for the same.

We had maybe 15 minutes left. I said I wanted to address a conversation I'd had with H Monday about ex-MC. I said how I'd already shared my email to ex-MC with H, and Monday evening, I was telling him how I'd spent the whole session on ex-MC stuff, how stuff with him had been weighing on my mind, and I was sorry if I'd been kind of distracted the past week or so. I said I hoped he was OK with it, and H had said, "Well, it does bother me a bit that you're upset about not getting an email back from another man." T: "Oh!"

I told T I wasn't sure how to respond to that. (T and I had talked in the past some about how the ex-MC stuff was probably difficult for H.) Me: "Yeah, I'm not sure how to explain my feelings for him." T: "I'm not sure *you* even fully understand those feelings." Me: "Yeah..." T: "So that makes it difficult to explain to H." Me: "I want to explain how much of it is transference, like stuff from my past and my parents, it's a different sort of love. But I don't know that he understands."

T: "Well, you may have to put it in Man Speak for him." Me: "Uh, OK. Could you maybe help me with that, since, you know, you're a man?" T closed his eyes for a moment, thinking (he does that often). T: "OK, I'd suggest saying something like this. 'I understand your concern about ex-MC. But I want you to know that I don't love him. I don't want to have sex with him. I don't want to be married to him. The feelings I get from him, they're from something I didn't get from my parents. So it's more about that.'" Me: "OK, I think I just worry he'll wonder why I can't get those things from him." T: "Well, the stuff you missed from your parents is different. Like, wanting them to accept you, to be proud of you." Me: "Yeah, while I guess a spouse is more of a reciprocal relationship." T: "Exactly." Me: "Maybe I'll see if there's a good time to talk to him about it..." T: "see how it goes."

Me: "I guess I also worry that...does he think of every male in my life as 'another man'? Like, does he think of you that way? If I tell him something funny you said, is he thinking, 'She's telling me that another man made her laugh.' As opposed to if it was something ex-t had said, because she's female?" T: "Well, you could always just ask him." Me: "I'm kind of afraid to. I mean, I talk about stuff from session sometimes because I feel like I want to be open with him. And I feel like, if I'm not sharing something I would have otherwise shared, like a joke, then why am I hiding it? Like he talks about his coworkers, some of whom are female, and a couple I know who are attractive. But I mean, I don't have coworkers now, so."

T: "Well, you could use the same Man Speak thing here. You could tell him, 'I don't feel anything at all for Dr. T.'" I couldn't look at him when he was saying that or for a bit after. Because he knows that's not entirely true. Like, he knows I find him to be attractive (I've told him). And I've told him before that I care about him and have a bit of platonic love feelings. (Of course it's nowhere near the level that things were with ex-MC--that was astronomical and overly complicated because of all the paternal transference stuff mixed in, which I don't have with T. T doesn't hit my receptors the same way ex-MC did, and I don't think he ever could.) But no way was I opening up that can of worms with 3 minutes left. And he was just talking about what to say to H. So I just said, "OK."

Talked another minute or two and was time to stop. He asked if I could come in at 9:30 instead of 11:30 Sunday, I said was fine. He said I could bring along a caffeinated beverage, and I said I likely would. He said of course he'd have his coffee. Confirmed next Thursday.

Went over and paid. He stood up and walked around his chair toward me. He usually stays sitting, and I thought he'd forgotten the handshake. He held out his hand, and we shook hands as he said,"Have a good...what day is it? a good few days." Me: "thanks, you too." T: "I'll see you Sunday." Me: "OK." T: "Take care." Me: "You too."

T asked about my holiday memories and I talked a bit about various foods from childhood. Later she made a comment about how most of my christmas stuff is focused around sweet foods. I felt ashamed that I couldnt share more personal memories yet and a bit judged, (i have food issies) I told her this and explained why.

She replied that she hadn't meant it like she was judging me. She has given up sugar recently and it was more a reflection on how so much xmas food is sweet and she is bummed out not to be having it.

She looked me in the eyes an apologized .

She also said how impressed she was I had said something right away instead of shutting down.

I really like my t.

We started ten minutes late, which is a bit unusual--he's often running from somewhere else on the hospital campus which makes him open his door a few minutes after the hour but not like this. It doesn't bother me, especially, because he always makes up the time at the end (though sometimes that means I'm a bit late for group afterwards).

HWMNBN asked what I had for the agenda. I said I'd had a good week, and felt like it might have had something to do with the fact that our last session had felt nice--like some part of me that had been screaming had been quieted, like some need of mine had been tended to. I also had to talk about a scheduling conundrum related to whether or not I should tell some people I'm working with that I've got a mental illness (all the people at my current workplace know, but I'll be rotating at a different hospital; it's complicated b/c I might want to work at the new hospital someday so I have a desire to seem impressive to them). He, of course, wanted to talk about what he so awkwardly phrased "dating updates." (Just to be clear, I don't think he has some kind of prurient interest in my dating life--he just wants me to be doing the sorts of things that other people my age are doing like dating and spending time doing fun things and that sort of nonsense. My annoyance is with his persistence and his sort of awkwardness in doing it.)

Anyway, I told him that that I classified the week as a good one mostly because I only felt really terrible once. (I had an upsetting meeting and felt really awful but managed to hang in there and go to a movie with a friend instead of cancelling or worse.) We talked about the dates I'd been on (one okay, one really kind of lovely).

Ack okay wow the NyQuil just set in--to be continued (hopefully tomorrow if this stuff makes me sleep through the night)

Today was... Intense.

I had been considering talking to him about my wish that he would express more emotions, unlike when we first started working together when I communicated that it was very important to me to not do so.
But in the end I didn't need to.
but that Wednesday when I had been feeling really bad I started with writing a list of basically all the things I blame myself for in how I handled things as a child. Things I feel guilty about. Some of it was pretty mean to myself I guess.
But that I'd then gone on to make myself refute those beliefs and write more reasonable or fair interpretations.
He asked me about sharing the stuff I'd written and when I got through the third item

He stopped me at that point to tell me this was really hard for him to hear.
I asked him what he meant.
He said it hurt to hear me say those things about myself.
After pausing for what seemed like a moment of self reflection about why he was feeling or saying this he kind of carefully said something about it triggering something for him. I don't usually see his processing of his own thoughts and feelings in real time like that.
He compared it to feeling like he would
I didn't really know how to respond so I was kind of half jokingly like "so I'm going to guess that means you would find that upsetting." He sounded sad when he said yes, that would be upsetting for him.
He said he didn't mean that I shouldn't share it and he was glad I was talking about it, but he needed to tell me that it hurt to hear. I don't remember exact wording, but it was expressing that it was something he thought it was important for me to know, not about a need to say it for himself.
I kept myself from apologizing because I didn't want him to feel like he'd made a mistake by telling me that.

After a bit of silence I asked if I could read the rest and he said yes and I did.
He commented again on how difficult it was to listen to.
He said something about me being a child and emotions or something, and, as I always do when he brings that stuff up, I made an involuntary face of disgust and curled up tighter and turned my head away more. He pointed it out, as he's been doing lately.
He said something about what I'd think if it was any other child or something.
Oh and he said I would not say those things to the child. I admitted that, while I never would, part of me would want to lash out and hurt the child with cruel words. He said yes, but that would be because I'd want to make her shut up because it was too painful to face those feelings. He hadn't put it quite so bluntly before. I couldn't look at him.

I don't remember exactly what preceded the transition, but I told him that he'd prefer the second half/find it better. He said "I hope so."
I believed him. It really did seem to have bothered him. I'm not sure if today was worse than usual for some reason or if he just wasn't intentionally not letting it show.
I read the second half.
It was things like

after, he said he was glad I wrote the second half. When I was finally able to look at him again he looked and sounded less upset and more relieved. I half jokingly asked if I had been right that he'd like the second part better. He said yes.
I told him I knew it was stupid and I already knew what he'd answer, but did this mean that he didn't agree with the stuff in the first half?
He said yes, he didn't agree with it.
I asked if he thought I deserved to hurt myself, and he said no.
I asked if he thought I was a bad child. He said no. I said it really really feels like I was. That there's just this deep sense that I was bad and wrong. He said that's common for children who are abused. That it didn't make it true. I may have wiped away a tear at that point.
I'm still not used to him calling it abuse. It feels like that's overstating it.

Also I can't remember at what point these things were said, but he said something about me protecting my safety and I said I knew I wasn't in danger and he said it wasn't emotionally safe for me to be vulnerable.
I also expressed the fear/belief that everyone on some level thinks like my mother and will think less of me for being vulnerable or emotional. He said he hoped I didn't include him in that belief and I was like ... um ... Sometimes.
At some point when he was saying it was hard to hear me say this stuff about myself I said it wasn't exactly fun to feel either. That sometimes I really really hate myself. And it's a bad feeling. I don't remember how he responded. Probably something about progress and changing that.
At some early point we talked about my feelings of detachment and numbness and how at those points the earlier feelings don't feel real and I feel like I must have been faking it or exaggerating.
He said I had learned to shut off and suppress the emotions because I couldn't handle them at the time.
He made a personal disclosure, which he does very sparingly and with minimal detail, about an experience he had involving very intense emotions that were too much for him to handle and that it felt like a dream, and that he was always aware of the fact that that was because his brain was protecting him from those emotions, and he never thought that must have meant he was faking it or something.
In a way it helped, but in a way it was also much more understandable for the experience he was describing.

I still don't really know what to think of all of this. I don't know why me saying those things about myself that I've said a million times before was different today. And if the difference was in how he felt about it out in what he showed. I do know that it helped though and I think I needed that. But now I have to wait 13 days until my next appointment and I'm seeing my father for two days right after Christmas. So it's definitely bad timing and I'm worried that I'll move several steps backwards.

That sounds like a powerful and important session, LabRat. I'm glad your T shared his feelings with you.

LabRat, tears welled up in my eyes reading your session- it gets to the heart of what I love about therapy. Thank you.

Thank you for saying that.
I feel stupid and ashamed for caring so much, like I'm way too vulnerable and none of it should matter that much to me, like I'm being pathetic for having found it so emotionally intense and meaningful.
Your reply helped.

Okay, I'm back--that stuff is stronger than I remember!

I'd forgotten to add that about five minutes after the appointment was supposed to start, HWMNBN stuck his head out of his door and said, "I'm sorry, I've got a situation and I'm going to be late." And then at ten minutes after this other patient left, and HWMNBN came to fetch me. He apologized and I said, "it's okay--people don't tend to fall apart on schedule."

Anyway, we talked about the guys I've been dating: M (the guy who I liked talking to but wasn't really attracted to) and J (the guy who at the time of the session I was really starting to like... though I've since gone on a third date and decided he's not for me, but that's a different story). HWMNBN commented that I was making the guys work for it a little (e.g. not responding very promptly sometimes). I said that yes, I knew I was doing that--I feel, in some part, un-loveable and un-wantable. Every time I go on a date I am a little shocked that they don't flee as soon as they catch a glimpse of me. (He looked really sad when I said that--looked like he had tears in his eyes.) I feel more secure if I have evidence that they actually like me and want to spend time with me. I'm not, like, playing hard to get, but I do recognize myself allowing the guys to pursue me a little.

And then things went wrong. I don't remember anymore how we got onto this topic but he said something about how I wouldn't have stayed in therapy with him if I had thought that he was only working with me out of professional obligation. I wondered aloud what feelings he might have towards me outside of professional obligation. He gestured towards me to indicate I ought to answer, I rolled my eyes and said something that I've now forgotten. It was very difficult to say but I eventually spat out that I wanted him to care about me as a person. I didn't say I wanted him to say that to me, I just said that I wanted it to be the case. (We were also talking about other stuff like how I care about my patients outside of professional obligation etc.)

His response to this really didn't feel good. He said that this conversation felt something like me asking for a hug (which, just to be clear, I have NEVER asked from him, and don't even want from him; that's something that I've wanted from other therapists and talked with him about). I startled a little when he said that and he asked why. I said that was because conversations where I ask therapists to do something that might qualify as "meeting needs" tend not to go very well or feel very good.

Aaaaand it didn't. He basically was like, "I don't think I should tell you how I feel." His reasons included, "I don't think that how I feel is important" (to which I wanted to scream, "COUNTERTRANSFERENCE CAN BE USED AS A TOOL TO BETTER UNDERSTAND PATIENTS YOU DING-DONG"), "can't you tell how I feel?" (which is just stupid), and some other stuff I don't remember. He said that this was an awful way to end a session to which I agreed but I had to leave because I was late for group.

I was still feeling hurt all through group. I told the group what had happened, that it feels like every time I start to feel safe with him and say something vulnerable, I end up getting hurt. The group leader said she really thought that our sessions needed to be audited (that's not the word she used, but that was the idea of it), and she was going to make that happen. (HWMNBN and the group are both part of a bigger program so they work closely together--like, she watches some of my sessions, and HWMNBN watches some of the group sessions.) She didn't say it in a punitive kind of way, but said something like, "we all have blind spots, and we all sometimes fall into re-enactments." I think she's right.

(LT, I thought of you during this last part of the conversation--similar to that conversation you had with your therapist a while ago about wanting him to say, "I care about you.")

ETA: He also said something about the fact that our sessions are very intense, which tbh I hadn't noticed, especially. (I mean, yes, they can be intense in the way that therapy often is... but not more so than other kinds of therapy I've had.)

T yesterday at 9:30 a.m. Went back and he told me to wait before sitting down. He wiped down where I usually sit with Lysol wipes, saying his previous client had a cold and he didn't want to take any chances with me getting it. Me: "Uh, thanks." I sat. He was wearing not penguin socks, but the black ones with big red roses on them. Me: "I've been awake less than 2 hours, so no guarantee how my brain will be working." T: "OK." Me: "Oh, and I'm totally sober right now--I usually have a beer before session." T: "Does that mean we should schedule more sessions at this time?" Me: "I don't know, let's see how things go..."

Discussed some stuff about D. T then asked how I was doing processing the ex-MC stuff. Me: "I'm still doing OK, actually." T: "You sound surprised by that." Me: "I am. I really thought I'd be reacting more. I'm kind of confused." T put his hands around his mouth and whispered, "Maybe it's that you're getting well." Me: "Maybe? I guess I just was dealing with stuff with him from most of the time I was seeing him and then since the rupture and termination. Maybe I just needed the email and the last few sessions to process it?" T: "I think you've probably been processing it all along." Me: "Hm, good point, even if some of it was subconscious."

I checked clock--we had almost a half hour left. Me: "So...there's something I kind of want to bring up, but I told myself I wouldn't." T: "OK, you don't have to talk about it." Me: "I know, but if it's something that I'm worried about talking about, maybe that means I need to talk about it? But then I'm thinking, it's almost Christmas, so..." T: "It's up to you." Me: "OK." T: "Do you want to say what the topic is? You don't have to." Me: "Well, it's partly the fact that I feel like I can't talk about certain topics, that I worry about how you'll react to them. And I hate that." T: "You don't have to worry about how I'm feeling." Me: "I'm more concerned about what you'll say to me about it." T: "Why do you think that is?" Me: "I don't want you to feel uncomfortable with me." T: "You don't need to consider my comfort." Me: "It's more my reaction to what you'd say about it." T: "OK."

Me: "Like with the stone...I hate to bring that up again, but." T: "It's fine." Me: "When you said that it felt creepy or weird, that made me feel really bad." T: "I want to clarify that I wasn't saying that *you* were creepy or weird. I want to make sure you know that I don't think that about you. Because I don't." Me: "OK, thanks. I guess I just don't want you to think about me in a negative way." T said something about nothing I've done made him think that way. Me: "Maybe that I use too many tissues?" T laughed.

Me: "I guess the thing I want to talk about is from something you said last session, like when you were suggesting the Man Speak stuff to say to H." T: "OK." Me: "Maybe I shouldn't talk about it..." T: "It's up to you." Me: "OK, I probably should if it's on my mind. So you said what to tell H to make him feel better about ex-MC. Things like I don't love him. But...I'm not sure if I'd be lying? I mean, I'm not sure that I love him anymore, but a year ago, I did. Though I guess I'd just be talking about what I feel now, so..." T: "OK."

Me: "And then...what you said I could say about you, where you said, 'I don't feel anything at all for Dr. T." T: "I don't recall saying it in those words, but OK." Me: "OK, maybe just something similar. But I realized I couldn't look at you when you said that. I think because it's not entirely true. And I know I've brought some of this stuff up with you before...and you seemed OK with some of it. So...I guess I was just afraid of what you meant when you said that. Like were you trying to send a message or were you just suggesting something to say to H." T: "Just something to say to H. I didn't mean anything else by it. You know, you often give me credit for having put more thought into something than I did." Me: "OK, so it was just something to show H you aren't a threat?" T: "Exactly." Me: "OK."

Me: "Because, I mean, like I said, it's not like I don't feel anything. I can be more specific if you want." T: "There's no need for specifics, we can leave it vague." Me: "OK. I mean, it's not like I'm in love with your or wish I was married to you or something." I started laughing. Me: "OK, that came out a bit more harshly than I meant it to!" T (smiling): "It's OK."

I said how at one point, I *did* feel those things about ex-MC. T said it's not surprising because of how caring he was toward me. I said was a bit confusing because some of it was paternal and some was like, "Well, H isn't giving me this but MC is." T: "It makes sense that those are qualities you'd want in a parent or a partner or anyone you had some sort of relationship with." Me: "Yeah, I mean, I know I was idealizing him. Because he couldn't be like that all the time in everyday life. I think I told him once that if he was, it would probably be annoying!" T: "Yeah, like 'stop holding me with your voice!'" Me: "Exactly." T: "If you know someone in real life, you learn more about them. Like everyone has bad breath, everyone has to sit on the toilet." (Me, in my head: I will not think about my T pooping...) Me: "Yeah, with ex-MC, when I was first meeting with him to discuss transference, a friend suggested I ask him to tell me all his gross habits. He said he could tell me, but I opted not to know." T: "It would have been an interesting thing to have held over him." Me: "Yeah. And ex-T had told me, I probably could have spent 10 minutes on the phone with his wife--she was still alive at the time--and I'd learn what it's really like to live with him."

I said how I felt I didn't have the idealizing thing with T. T: "Maybe it's because I haven't always been accepting of you." Me: "Hm, that makes sense. I feel at times how that's actually probably better for me. Because with ex-MC, he was showing an unrealistic example of a relationship. Like I'm not going to probably find someone who is that accepting of everything and caring all the time in the real world. So then that just left me attached to him and not wanting to leave."

T said that from the outside, it seemed inevitable that ex-MC and I would have had a major conflict. Because all relationships have them at some point. T: "And most people are able to work through them, just as I think we have." Me: "Yes." T said the thing he's said before about how working through conflicts can make a relationship stronger because you know you can get through it. That he hopes I realize that with our relationship, too. That we've worked through things before and will work through them again when something else comes up. I said I guessed that could help me more with outside relationships, and he agreed.

T said how he thinks I've been dealing with conflict better recently, whether with him or other people. And that I seem less affected by people saying negative things to me, like on PC threads. How before, if someone made a comment, I'd be more likely to agonize over it. While now, I'm less likely to take it to heart. Me: "Yeah, I think you're right. Is that the LT filter you've talked about?" T: "Partly, I think so." I said I felt like I'd been doing better handling conflicts with H and with friends, too, and he agreed. How it's partly that I'm not assuming I did something wrong. Me: "Yeah, sometimes I realize it's the other person, too." T: "But it doesn't have to be anyone doing something wrong. People are just different, so they have conflicts. I can't think of anyone in my life who is exactly like me. So I'm going to have conflicts with them, just because of the differences." Me: "Hm, I hadn't thought about it that way before." T: "Some people choose to avoid difficult topics, and they end up with rugs that are really high because they swept everything under them, and with elephants and gorillas sitting around the room." Me: "My mom is kind of like that..." T: "But it's generally better to talk about it." Me: "Yeah or the elephant or gorilla just keeps getting bigger." T pointed at me: "Exactly."

At some point in the middle of that, after we started discussing therapeutic relationship, T asked me, "Does all this feel OK?" And I said yes. Then he checked in again with me at the end. Which I appreciated. And it really did feel OK.

When we had 5 minutes left, he was still talking about the conflict stuff, referencing Gottman (who did research on marriage) and some other things. I said a couple times I knew we had to stop soon, but T kept talking and wasn't making moves to stop. So I went with it. We finally stopped at the hour mark, and I still had to schedule and pay. He confirmed Thursday, said he'd be in some Sunday and Monday, that I could just text him to schedule. Me: "I know, because we're over time." T: "That was my fault." Me: "OK." Went over and paid. Shaking hands, T said, "Happy Holidays!" Me: "Same to you." T: "I hope Santa brings you whatever you want." Me: "Thanks! Uh, you too?" T: "Take care." Me: "You too."

I’m not sure if this goes here or not.

But I wanted to make sure my insurance was secured first, but in Janurary I will be looking for a new therapist. My doctor has given me a couple names in the same office he is in.. They specialize in autism. This outpatient practice is part of the best mental health hospital in the surrounding states. I will never step foot in that other place. Or discuss with my new therapist what happened with the old therapist. For safety issues. I’m hoping it works out with the new one.

I hope she doesn’t suggest group therapy though. I don’t think I need it. Plus where will I find the time? Don’t group therapies run during the day? I work during the morning. Then I’m too tired in the afternoon. I go to bed early. So nights won’t work. There’s no way I’m going to groups on my two days off during the week. Those two days off are what keeps me sane because I have time to myself to do whatever I want to. It just won’t work out. I don’t even know where there are groups besides that clinic I refuse to step foot into. I think the new place just does outpatient hospitalization programs.

T yesterday. Went back and sat down. I said I'd survived Christmas. T: "Apparently! Or at least your body did." He asked if I'd felt particularly stressed about it, because he hadn't gotten that sense from me. I said I'm always stressed about the holidays--family stuff, expectations, etc.--and that H had also said I'd seemed particularly stressed this year. But that I didn't think I'd been any more stressed than previous years.

I noticed a bit of pink on his socks and looked closer--they were cat socks! With big sort of drawn cat faces on them (think they were new). Me: "I just noticed your cat socks!" T smiled but seemed oddly self-conscious and adjusted his socks and bottom of his pant legs.

I said I'd actually stayed an hour later than H and D at both my in-laws' (Christmas Eve) and my parents' (Christmas). Which is unlike me (particularly the in-laws!) but I was doing fine and being social. T said it was good. Me: "And I wasn't even drunk or anything!"

I said H had later asked his sister how I did, and he reported to me that she'd said I did well, was most social she'd seen me in a long time. I told T I'd shared that with a friend, and she thought it was rather "infantilizing" that H had done that. I said at first I'd felt OK with it, but the more I thought about it, it's not like I would ever ask the same about H. T: "Does H's sister know you have anxiety issues?" Me: "Yes, his whole family pretty much does." T: "OK. I imagine you'd be less likely to ask about him because he doesn't have the anxiety." Me: "Good point. Though I don't think it's so much just that he asked, but that he also told me what she said. He's also done stuff like that with things I wish I *hadn't* known, like shortly after I had D, telling me how his mom thought I didn't seem happy enough to be a mom." T: "Ugh, that's not helpful." Me: "Yeah, especially since I was dealing with postpartum depression."

I told T something else with H from that morning, where he had assumed I was apologizing for something with D, when I wasn't, I was just commenting on it. And H got angry/irritable like he often does when I apologize. (And I clarified that I wasn't apologizing). And said that's kept happening lately, that I've gotten better with not apologizing, yet H reacts as though I'm apologizing. Me: "So how can I really improve if he's still reacting that way, if he doesn't recognize it?"

T: "I want to ask you a question, but I'm a bit hesitant. I'm concerned that this could be something you end up overthinking, but I'm really just wondering." Me: "OK...does it involve you?" T: "No, it's not about me." Me: "OK." T: "I just feel like I should preface it with all these caveats, in case you misunderstand my intention in asking." Me: "Well, we have most of session, that would be plenty of time to clarify if I misunderstood. So, go ahead." T: "OK. Have you ever considered that H could be on the autism spectrum?"

I wasn't expecting that and was quiet for a minute. Me: "Hm...I don't know. I mean, he's diagnosed with ADHD. So he has some issues from that." T: "Yes, but some of what I'm thinking from what you said wouldn't really be part of ADHD. Like the thing about his telling you what his sister and mother said. Most people would realize that they shouldn't do that. There are probably like 50,000 social rules, and most can't really be taught, but people just learn things naturally, by observing. While someone with autism would struggle with that. They might have to be told what's appropriate in a social situation."

Me: "Hm...OK." T: "And people on the spectrum tend to have difficulty reading others' emotions. You've said before that he doesn't seem to realize when you're upset or stressed or to know how to handle it." Me: "Yeah...but I guess part of me thought, I'm so emotionally attuned to people, that I'm probably overobservant, reading signals that aren't there. Like I'm way on the far end of that particular spectrum--not the autism one, but I guess emotional intelligence. So for me, I'm not really clear what's 'normal' and think I expect too much of others." T: "We've discussed some of that before, where it's hard to know how other people's minds work, and how yours has so many thoughts at one time." Me: "Yeah."

Me: "But this makes me think of--I think I told you about this. How in an early ex-MC session, I was saying I didn't feel enough empathy from H. And ex-MC was like, 'I'm not saying this is the case, but say he isn't able to have empathy. You can't get all your needs met by one person.' And that bothered me because for me, empathy is important in a relationship. Ex-T was really bothered that he said that, too." T: "I agree that empathy is very important." Me: "Especially in a partner." T: "I'm surprised he suggested that was OK." Me: "Yeah."

I said how H also didn't seem to get the signal if I didn't want to talk. Like, if I was in the middle of work and didn't look up from my screen when he walked by, he'd just start talking. And keep talking. And wouldn't seem to get a signal that it wasn't a good time. T: "That could also be due to impulsivity from the ADHD." Me: "OK. Or like the other night, we were trying to watch Top Chef, and he just like wouldn't stop talking! And I wanted to watch the show. Though I suppose that's kind of a common thing in a marriage." T: "Impulsivity can also be what leads to people talking constantly during a movie, like, 'what just happened? Who's that?'" Me: "Well, I do that sometimes..."

T said he wanted to clarify that he hasn't been seeing H as a client, he only knows what I share with him. And also that he hasn't been thinking for the past year, "Oh, your H is definitely on the spectrum." It's just something that's come into his head from some things I've shared, with his having difficulty reading some social cues or empathizing. And also, with D, the fact that, since I've told him how much his yelling at her bothers me and why he shouldn't do that, he's generally stopped doing that. How often people on the spectrum need to be told something like that, instead of realizing it themselves. And then once they're told, they change their behavior. Like H did. And really, he shouldn't have needed to be told not to act that way toward D.

T said he hoped it didn't bother or upset me that he'd suggested this. I said it's something I had to give more thought to for sure. How maybe H is like at the most high-functioning end of the spectrum, or possibly has some traits from it without being fully on spectrum, if that's possible, like how T had said maybe I have some borderline traits but am not actually borderline. I said it actually would make me feel better in a way to know that it's, say, something from autism or ADHD leading to some of this. Because then...it's not me. It's not that he's choosing not to empathize with me, he just doesn't really understand.

T: "I think you got angry at me when I shared this in the past, but maybe I'm mistaken. But if someone does something to upset you or isn't there in the way you need, the first thing to consider is ignorance. That they just don't know or understand. The second is self-centeredness, that maybe it's more about them. The third thing you should consider, after those, is that it could be deliberate, but that's the last thing to think of. The first two are more likely." Me: "So in other words, it's usually more about the other person not about me." T: "Correct." Me: "I could see where maybe I would have gotten mad at you if you'd told me that about a particular incident, like a fight with H."

I forget how we shifted to this topic. I mentioned having a few really explicit sexual dreams the past few weeks about strangers. T asked how things were sexually in my marriage. Me: "I think we last had sex...uh...3 weeks ago maybe?" T: "Is that typical for you? Like once a month?" Me: "Yeah, I mean, it depends, sometimes once a week for a couple weeks, then might go 2 months." T: "Are you happy with that?" Me: "I don't know... I mean, I feel we should be intimate more often. And it's not like I lack sexual desire. Like I...you know, take care of things myself sometimes." T: "How often is that?" Me: "Maybe 2 or 3 times a week." T: "Do you think that takes away from things with H?" Me: "I don't know, I mean, it's often middle of the day. Or it seems like, I don't know, too much effort with H, like D has to be asleep (she has a lot of sleeping issues), the conditions have to be perfect..." He asked if we used to be more frequent, and I said yes, probably a few times a week before we got married and also a bit more frequent than now before we had D.

T asked if H seemed happy with this frequency. Me: "I don't know. I doubt it. The thing is, he won't say anything because he doesn't want to pressure me. Like we talked about it in marriage counseling before, which was horribly awkward with ex-MC. So I don't know if he'd be honest about what he's really feeling. Plus he never initiates because I think he doesn't want to pressure me. So it's all on me." T: "That's a lot of pressure." Me: "Yeah." T suggested we have a talk about it, what we both want. Me: "I just worry he won't be honest." T: "Then that's on him." Me: "Yeah, I guess."

Trigger below is just for potentially graphic sexual language:


We were almost at the hour. T: "Is it OK if we schedule?" Me: "Sure." Confirmed Sunday, he said he'd left slot for me at usual time Thursday, so I took that. Me: "So, I may want to consider spacing out sessions a bit more eventually. But I think I want to keep it twice weekly through January. I mean, unless you're out of town for a week or something." T: "January? No, I'm not going out of town." Me: "OK, good. It's also my birthday month." T: "Next month?" Me: "Yeah, the last day." T: " How old will you be?" Me (in a sad voice): "42..." T (kinda teasing me): "You're all...'oh...42.'" Me: "Yeah, though I guess once I've hit 40 doesn't really matter the year." T seemed amused by that (he's 48).

Paid, shook hands as he said "Have a good few days." Me: "You too." T: "Take care." Me: "You too."

Thanks for sharing LT. I really like your write-ups. I wish I had even half the memory of my sessions as you have of yours. I barely remember two or three things. I liked the cat socks part. I had a former PDOC who used to wear "funky" socks and I thought it was fun. My former T never wore funky socks, and probably didn't even own any, but as I usually have trouble making eye contact at least for parts of it, I look at feet a lot. Plus I used to sell shoes so I guess that's part of it! Kit

I enjoyed the write up, and the cards-table communication between you and T.

Second session with L. The first session wasn't worth discussing.

She asked if I could sign a release for her to get Pollyanna's files on me. "Isn't the release I gave him sufficient?"
"Oh, I didn't know that you'd signed a release. I'll call him."

We reviewed the goals that we'd discussed in our first session:
1. Reduce negative cognitions
2. Process childhood trauma
3. Examine how attachment issues influence my relationships
4. Deal with infertility stuff

What did I want to start with? What felt pressing? I shrugged my shoulders. I was very anxious. She asked me how EMDR processing had gone with Pollyanna. I told her about the day where I sent him the nasty email after processing, and it bothered me for several days after. She talked a bit about how the way she does EMDR is different somehow to Pollyanna, so that shouldn't happen to the same degree, "but I can't say that with certainty, of course."

She asked what it looks like when I get in that emotional place. I told her it is like I'm shut down and that the emotions take over. She clarified a bit what I meant, and I started discussing the prefrontal cortex (because this is who I am as a human being apparently).

This led to a conversation about the idea of wise mind. She actually had a white board and drew out a Venn diagram to discuss the whole thing with me. It was hard not to internally critique the way she was teaching it to me; I needed the lesson to be scaffolded. But more frustrating than that was how foreign the concept seemed to me. How much I was struggling with it, how stupid I felt, and how not Pollyanna L is.

Something we kept coming back to in the conversation was how I suppress my emotions, and I felt myself doing that as we spoke. I wanted to run out of the office and cry. I was holding back tears.

There was a lull in the conversation at this point; likely I was dissociating or too wrapped up in my emotions. "What kind of thoughts are you having right now?"

"In this moment? I don't want to be here, and I feel stupid that I'm getting upset over a f****** Venn diagram."

She responded with how it's important to work at my pace, and how it seemed like I needed to work on or reinforce some soothing techniques before we try to do heavy lifting. Like with Pollyanna, we would need to build trust.

It was toward the end of session at this point. She wants me to fill out a DBT diary card to track my moods this week. I've been booted from vacation, so I decided to turn the whole thing into a mini project and bought my first bullet journal after I left.

As we were wrapping up, she said that if I wanted to email her between sessions I could. She wouldn't always reply to content, but she'd at least acknowledge receipt. And we confirmed my standing appointment going forward: Tuesdays after work.

I realised that not hurting myself is directly because of my OH and if left alone things might be different. Then I was sad because why can't I ever feel worthy without some else's approval?

You have big, important therapeutic goals. I'm in awe of them in writing all together like that.

But Venn diagrams, to me, sometimes try to make sense of something that is non sensible, at least in the present moment in its application. Just because you can draw two overlapping circles doesn't mean that their intersection (in application) works in real life.

My kid had a therapist for awhile who liked to jump up and write things on the whiteboard. He hated it; I thought it was kind of cool but also that writing words like "balance" didn't really make more of a difference in just saying them. "It's like he's a teacher," my kid said, which is probably more revealing of how he feels about teachers than anything else.

I like learning new concepts or greater nuance about things I know a little about, as it helps me learn about myself. Learning has definitely been a part of my therapy. What's often painful for me about learning is the neighborhood where I think you are, which is when things don't make sense to me. I feel like I can deal with anything, as long as it makes sense and I can understand it. About myself I can usually get to self understanding, about other people or events, not so much. I've had to give up on the fantasy that everything makes sense if you just understand the world people are operating within.

T yesterday. The classical music was really loud in the waiting room, so when he retrieved me I said they had the music turned up to 11 today. He went to fix it while I went back and sat down. He came back, we discussed what might have happened with the music (maybe one of other practitioners). Then he said, "Hello." Me: "Hello." We ended up discussing football and other sports for a bit as I internally debated whether to tell him about a dream I'd had involving him the night before that was somewhat intimate. But seeing him and talking made me feel nervous about sharing it.

I said I was considering what to talk about. He asked if I felt we were done with our discussion last session about H. Me: "About the possible autism or sex stuff?" T: "The first one." Me: "No I don't think we're done talking about it." T: "I actually expected to get an email from you after session." Me: "I thought about it, then figured I'd be seeing you today, so I didn't." T smiled. Me: "See? Progress!" T agreed.

I talked about a date night Friday where I felt like I was being oddly quiet and like I was trying to analyze H. And that I'd looked up info online and tried taking a few quizzes on his behalf, but wasn't sure how to answer parts. T: "That's exactly what I was afraid you would do." (I wanted to be like, "So why did you suggest that to me?" but resisted.) I said how in one quiz, an awful lot of the stuff seemed to apply to me. So then yesterday I found this post on women with Asperger's, listing some common traits, and an excessive number of them applied to me, so went down a bit of a rabbit hole." T: "LT, you're not on the spectrum." Me: "Yeah, my friend said the same. And that the list was BS." T: "She's right."

Me: "OK that makes me feel better. She also asked me why it would matter if I was." T: "I'm not sure how I feel about that question." Me: "What do you mean? I just said I thought it would help explain me more. She asked that about H, too." T: "Well, I tend to feel that the more information you have, the better. Like they say, knowledge is power." I said I did see why she asked me the question, like what was I trying to get out of it. And he seemed to understand more.

I said how one thing the quizzes ask about is stuff related to sensory processing disorder. And that I'd realized I had some of that when I was researching stuff about D. How I'm really sensitive to bright lights, certain sounds, certain food textures (part of why I'm a vegetarian), and certain smells. Me: "Like the smell of fish really bothers me. Or frying butter, like if H is making pancakes. If I smell that, it makes me feel really sick and get anxious." T: "Frying butter--I've never heard that one before!" Me: "Oh great..." T: "Yep, that's a new one. I've heard cooking grease." Me: "Well, you've learned something today!"

I said something else that came up in there is executive function issues. I mentioned a few things, like trouble paying bills on time, not being able to get organized or keep house clean, etc. T said that could just be an effect of anxiety, having trouble focusing. I said maybe, but it seemed like so many things I ticked off. I have lots of trouble filling out forms, always afraid I'll mess up (T said could be fear of people being mad at me). And how I can try different methods, like making lists, putting alerts on my calendar, etc. But none of those things work. I forget if it was those examples or something else I said. But then T said: "OK, that's not anxiety, that's executive functioning stuff." Me: "Like an executive functioning disorder?" T: "'Disorder' seems like such a sad word." Me: "Uh, OK, executive functioning issues?"

We talked about how many people have trouble with those things. And how my mom made it seem like there was something terribly wrong with people like that, such as my aunt, who could never pay bills on time. I said it made me feel like there was something horribly wrong with me that I couldn't seem to do things like that, to get organized.

H came up again, and I said I didn't really know how I could figure it out. T was saying that he can generally tell within a half hour of talking to someone if they're on the spectrum. I said I wished we could come up with some excuse to have H come in for a session with me, and then T could kind of evaluate him while he's talking. Me: "But...I guess that would be kind of unethical, like no informed consent." T agreed that it's not the best way to handle it. He said if we were in marriage counseling again, could be a place to address it. He said he supposed I could possibly ask ex-MC what he thought. I said he was likely to dismiss it, how he also met our D at one point (full session) and didn't think she was. T: "Yeah, and he doesn't tend to like putting labels on things either."

I agreed and said how once I'd gotten upset with ex-MC because we were talking about, I think, whether D might have ADHD in addition to autism. And ex-MC had said generally people don't have multiple diagnoses, that one thing explains it. And I had said, "So are you saying someone can't have OCD, generalized anxiety, and recurrent major depressive disorder?" (referring to my diagnoses). I forget what he'd said. But yesterday T said how he completely disagreed with that, how in the DSM V, under each diagnosis, there's a section on comorbidities (conditions that tend to occur along with that condition). Note: I do not plan to ask ex-MC if he thinks H could be on the spectrum.

I forget how we ended up on this topic--maybe because of New Year's?--but talked about changes I wanted to make. And I brought up drinking again. Talked some about how to set attainable goals, breaking them down into smaller parts. He gave example of, you wouldn't want to just say "I'm going to eat healthier" because it's too broad. But to start with little things like "I'm going to stop eating candy." Or "I'm going to eat two cups of vegetables a day." He said that I should make the goals like what they have on an IEP (individualized education plan, which my D has for school), where it says "75-80% of the time, the child will meet x goal." I said that was a good way to think about it. That I shouldn't expect to meet goal all the time because then I'm kinda setting myself up for failure. He agreed.

Talked a bit more specifically about numbers, way I could set goals, some of which we've discussed before, but helps to discuss again. He asked reasons why I wanted to cut back, and I said health and also to set better example for D. And also financial. And that I'd lose a bit of weight, so we were discussing how many calories are in beer. He said it also has no nutritional value. I said I think Guinness has iron. T: "Is that the dark one?" I kinda laughed (since it's pretty popular) and said, "Yes. H drinks it but I don't like it." I also was talking about calories in, say, a double IPA, and he looked puzzled and was like, "What's that? An IPA in a big glass?" I said no, just one (India pale ale, hoppy beer) that's higher alcohol, like 8% (compared with, say, Miller lite at 4.5%).

At the end of that conversation, I joked, "Hey, maybe I could take up crack to stop drinking!" T: "Well, it doesn't have any calories!" I like that we can joke about things like that. I said maybe I could think about the goals thing over the next few days and discuss more Thursday.

Was time to stop. Confirmed Thursday, T looked at his phone and said, "We're back to a regular schedule next week!" Schedule the following Monday/Thursday. He was asking about New Year's plans as I went over to pay, mentioned going out with the same couple we've seen past few years, that it would be fairly low-key. T: "So probably no bail bonds needed?" Me: "No, I don't think so!" Paid, shook hands as he said, "Have a good New Year's Eve." Me: "You too." (no "take care" this time).

Trigger Warning about SH/SI/SA.....

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Saw T today after our week and half break. I had talked to him over the phone on Sunday so he already knew about Hs grandmother dying and that we went to her funeral. T asked how it was going and I told him it was all crap, crap and more crap. He asked me to explain further what I meant, so I told him about what happened on New Year's Eve with H and I drinking and Told him that I had stayed up until 5am that night afterwards and SH because I was so upset at myself. Told him I went and got it checked out at urgent care yesterday and they just glued it together. He asked me if it was around the same area I usually do it at and I told him yes. He also askes me how it was feeling today and if the spots ever bother me. I told him the only one that's ever really bothered me was my ankle. He asked what the doctor had to say about it, and I said he told me to read a Western philosophy book about how other religions view suffering. T corrected me and said it was probably Eastern philosophy and I agreed. I told him that I didn't tell the doctor the whole story about the SH and that I just got drunk and SHed. T made a comment about how the doctor had to have seen the other scars given the location, and I said Yes he did but that I didn't explain the situation surrounding everything. Told T that the Dr sent me on my way. Told him that the only reason I went to that urgent care was because the last time I was there for SH was in 2016 so I figured they wouldn't send me to the ER like the last urgent care did. After talking about that part T asked me what led me to take out the anger on myself about what H had done. That was a really difficult talk because I mentioned my SI. I'm not sure if what I said worried him but he mentioned words like life threatening and how he worried that if H does it again that I'll act on those thoughts.

We talked about other options that I have like kicking H out and why I feel like SI is an easier solution. We basically spent the entire session on talking about that incident, how I am blaming myself, and options. I was surprised to see that we didn't end until 5 till when usually he stops right at 10 till...almost to the dot. After he told me that we'd have to stop there for today, he said that he didn't know if he had mentioned it yet but he has availability tomorrow if I wanted to come in since we didn't get our Monday session or if I just wanted to wait until Friday. I told him yes, I'd definitely want to come in so we scheduled that and I left.

Good luck!