In Session Today: Part VI

A snippet...

Me: (talking about a trauma dream)... and it is not time to deal with this yet.

T: ....

Me, laughing: You're making the face. Stop it.

T (shrugs with her hands out): ...

Me: Now you're just making the face more.

T: Your brain thinks it's time.

Me: Well, my brain is wrong. Even my dream was apologetic about sliding that in there.

(talking)

T: Well, it has calmed down a lot. It hasn't been happening as often.

Me: ...

T: Has it?

Me, shrugs because I don't talk about flashbacks and such much in therapy because it's old news and I am just trying to get through this stupid divorce
Me, thinking UGH, fine: Well, I spent Saturday morning in the shower crying and not breathing. Kind of like in my dream. I know, I just said it was a great day and I feel great and everything is better.
(To her credit she left that alone and talked about brains and trauma. Which was definitely the right move.)

Wow. Really bad session. Went into it really suicidal and left even more suicidal. I feel like me being suicidal is a big f****** joke to my t because I’ve had so many close calls and never actually gone through with it. [/trigger] I told him I didn’t know if I could be safe after taking about wanting to die and having impulses to do things like jump in front of a train, jump off a bridge, run into traffic, etc. all session, and he just let me walk out. Sure yesterday I stood in front of the train and got off the tracks at the last possible second, but I guess I’m good. I get that he probably had someone coming in right after me but wtf. I feel like my life literally means nothing. That or he just trusts me way too much. I feel like he must think I just do this s*** for attention or something. Or he’s just betting that I don’t have the balls to do it, in which he’s probably right because I’ve backed out everything time. But now I feel like he doesn’t even take this serious and I’m even more suicidal, and I hate that. [trigger]

Comments appreciated.. thanks

Hugs @SummerTime12 I'm so sorry that your T didn't take you seriously. Do you think you need to go to the ER or call a hotline? Keep talking here on PC if it helps. HUGS Kit

Thanks Kit. I had been considering going to the hospital since yesterday, but I thought if I needed it my t would help me reach that conclusion today or push me in that direction. But it really felt like he didn’t give a f***, so now it’s even harder for me to care.

Yeah, I get that. Sometimes we need other people to care about us so that we can care about ourselves, don't we? Does it help to know that I care and there are lots of people here on PC that care about you and we hope you stay safe?

It means a lot and it does help, and I really want it to be enough, but I don’t feel like it is right now. Which I feel awful for saying. I don’t even have a next appointment set up because I’m broke and I don’t wanna be thinking about how he doesn’t care all week or longer. I kinda just wanna [/trigger] kill myself right now while I don’t give a f*** [trigger]

I’m so sorry he didn’t give you the support and help you needed in such a difficult time. I can relate after once being told by a community mental health nurse that ‘if you were really suicidal you would have killed yourself by now’ when I tried to express that I was feeling suicidal.
I know it’s probably hard to see it now but your life is worth more than his validation and there are other options for support if you need it. Please do what whatever it takes to stay safe. Thinking of you.

Wow Summertime. I don't have words. I feel like your T really missed the ball on this one. My T probably would be seriously talking to me about hospitalization/maybe even making calling the cops on me. She takes talk of suicide (esp when you have a plan, acted towards it as you did) very seriously. I am really nervous for you, and hope that maybe you go to the ER.

By the way, the trigger thingy you have is backwards. It is [trigger]words[/ trigger] (without the space)

@KLL85 I’m sorry that happened to you, that nurse sounds pretty insensitive and invalidating. I appreciate your comment that my life is worth more than validation from my t—that’s something I really need to be reminding myself right now.
@velcro003 thanks for the heads up on the trigger! I can’t edit it anymore unfortunately . I’m not sure why I’ve been formatting it wrong a lot lately it seems.
I feel like my t messed up today too, but I feel guilty saying that because he is usually really good with me. It just really felt like he didn’t care. Weirdly enough, even after getting into a huge fight with my husband tonight because of everything, I’m actually feeling safer with myself now than I did before. Still feel really down and bad about myself, but like I can be safe at least for tonight.

@SummerTime12: I'm glad you are feeling safer tonight. Please keep posting here if it helps.

Also glad you're feeling safer, Summer...

Bonus T session Friday because some rather intense stuff came up in the second half of Thursday's session. Warning: Long!

Went in and sat down. T was wearing his glasses. T: "Let's talk about what made you want to come in today." Me: "Some of the stuff that came up in the second half yesterday brought up a lot of emotions in me." T: "Well, the second half was basically two topics. Part was about how you didn't really get what you needed from your parents as a kid and how you aren't really getting it now either." Me: "Yeah, that brought up a bit of sadness. It hadn't really occurred to me that I'm also not getting what I need from them as an adult. But that wasn't the main thing behind my reaction."

T: "Well, the other part we talked about involved the therapeutic relationship." Me: "Yeah, mainly that part." He asked what affected me. I said how part was that he was saying he'd let me know if I was becoming too needy when it was just a 'little monster' before it became a big one. "At the time, I was just imagining a little monster running around. But when I thought about it later...why is it a 'monster' at all? That word bothered me. And made me worry about being too needy." T said that word was a poor choice. T: "Instead, let's think about it as pebbles vs. a mound. It's better to address things with people while they're still pebbles, before they become a big mound, because then it gets more messy." Me: "OK, I like those terms better."

Me: "The other thing is...when you were talking about what me barking up the wrong tree, looking for things from you, like that I'm not getting from my parents...it made me feel like there's something wrong with me for wanting that." (I started sobbing in there.) T: "There's nothing wrong with you for that. I completely understand that desire. Everyone looks to get needs met from different people." Me: "OK, thanks."

I said another thing that had bothered me was...I couldn't recall his exact wording. But he'd said something about how I may have been looking for unconditional love from ex-MC and him but wouldn't be able to get that because of the nature of the relationship. And I said how that was hard for me because...there was a part of me that sort of wanted to believe that, at least at some point, ex-MC had loved me. Not, like, romantically, but... I forget what T said to that. I think he was just clarifying what I said. I said I knew ex-MC would have never told me, but it helped me sometimes to think it was true.

T asked me what emotions those things brought out in me. I said partly shame (from feeling I was looking for something from the wrong people) and some sadness.

I said how there was some stuff I was afraid to share with him, like this one dream or a thought I'd had when leaving a couple weeks ago. So we got into a discussion about things to share vs. not to share with people. He said when he was under supervision when first starting, if he thought once to himself, "I want to hit my supervisor over the head with a club because she annoys me," that wouldn't be a useful thing to tell her. But if he kept thinking that, it could be important to bring up. He said it also wouldn't be appropriate to say to her, "You look hot today!" I said maybe she'd say the same back to him, and he said that would be even more of an issue.

He mentioned the interns he oversaw over the summer and said if one of them had told him, "You look hot today," then that would continue to live in the relationship. I said, "Wouldn't you just say, 'I'm flattered'?" He said that is probably how he'd reply, adding, "But then the sexual tension has been brought into the room. Maybe it had existed before anyway, but now that it's been vocalized, it's always there." (I didn't say this, but I wondered what my comments in the past that I think he's attractive in general or that I occasionally have fantasies about him would fall into that category? As I do feel some sexual tension in there at times...)

He was talking about in my marriage to H, there could be topics that are difficult to bring up. That I need to think whether there's a potential benefit to bringing them up, or if it would be more likely to just cause harm. I said that sometimes it's hard to tell. He agreed, saying that, for example, if we're having issues in our sex life, that's a difficult topic, but a necessary one. I said if it annoyed me how he slurps his coffee, that's probably not useful. He agreed.

He also said it's better to bring up something early than to wait for it to build up, because then it explodes and can get messy. I said for example, when H was training for a marathon, if it was bothering me that he prioritized his runs over other things, if I waited till months in and then was like, "Why do you have to go for a 3-hour run this morning when I wanted to do something?" T said, "Or, 'Why do you have to f***ing run so much?'" Me: "Exactly. So I'd want to say something earlier on."

I said how I often wondered what to share with him (T). That since coming back 2 months ago, I feel things have been going well and been quite productive. But that I also think maybe I'm trying to be the client he wants me to be, in the sense of not really focusing on the therapeutic relationship. And it occurred to me in the shower that morning that it was like what we'd talked about recently, how I would do that with certain people in my life, like my former best friend, where I just tried to meet their needs without being myself. And how if I was doing that with him, it wasn't a good thing. But I was also afraid of messing up the therapy.

I forget what he said. I said how I do need to talk about the relationship sometimes. Because otherwise, things can build up in me and eventually become an issue. I brought up the standing when I leave thing. And returned to his saying it's better to talk about things when they're pebbles. Me: "I waited until that had become a huge mound. I think that's probably why it blew up the way it did. Because I'd waited until it had bothered me for a long time to say anything." T: "Yes, I was confused by how strongly you'd reacted to that. Because I hadn't realized you were thinking it for that long. So it felt like a big rejection to you. Where if you'd said something to me early on, I might have just said I didn't want to do that, and it would have just been fine with you." Me: "Yeah...."

I went back to wanting to share something for fear of it building up and causing issues. But I was afraid to say it. I think T said it was up to me? I finally said, "So, a couple weeks ago, when I was leaving session, I had this thought flash through my head: 'I love you.' And I didn't mean it romantically, but more about what you'd given me that day, that it was something that I needed. But I was afraid you'd have run out of the room if I said it." I was crying pretty hard at this point. I covered my eyes and said, "Please don't make me leave..." T (quietly): "I'm not going to do that." Me: "OK." It took me a while to get up the courage to look at him.

Me: "Because it's not really that I love *you*--because I know that I don't really know you. But that I love what you had given me in that moment." T: "I understand." Me: "OK. Because what happened with ex-MC...(when I emailed him the "I love you so much"), I don't think that was really romantic love either but everyone seemed to think it was and it messed everything up. And I don't want this to mess everything up with you. Like I'm afraid not you won't want to shake my hand or will keep your distance." T: "I have no intention of changing anything like that. I understand. It's OK." Me: "OK." T: "And if it does seem like I'm doing anything differently, please tell me in the moment, because I might not realize it." Me: "OK, I will."

Me: "I'm probably going to worry about this until next session, that you're going to change your mind about it being OK." T: "I'm not going to change my mind." Me: "OK." We talked for a few more minutes, then it was time to stop. I said I'd appreciated the extra session. T said he was glad it had worked out. T: "I imagine we aren't done with the conversation about the 'I love you' bubble." Me: "Yeah. I like the idea of it being a cartoon bubble over my head." T made a "poof!" sound and smiled.

I'd forgotten to pay at the beginning, but he processed my card while standing up. Me: "Are you sure you're OK with what i said?" T: "Yes." He gave me my card back, then held out his hand to me. We shook hands as he said, "Try to have a good weekend." Me: "Thanks, you too." T: "Try not to stress about this too much. All is well on my end." Me: "OK, I'll do my best." T: "Take care." Me: "You, too."

Replies/comments welcome.

I saw my Pdoc today. I told him I had been going through a lot of physical stuff this year. He asked me like what. I explained about the sinus infection earlier in the year. Then I mentioned the cellulitis infection and how I have been feeling off ever since. He asked if he could bring my mom in the office and I said yeah. He said that I could actually have lingering side effects from the cellulitis that are still affecting me. I told him about the PVC and going for the halter monitor today. He wants the review and seemed legit concerned about it. and he wants me to do a second sleep study since I didn’t sleep for the first one. The session was kinda confusing but my mom was in the room with me so she got all the details. But basically he just confirmed I was right and I’ve been feeling not right because of the cellulitis infection I had a couple weeks ago.

I saw my t yesterday. I wasn’t planning to talk about it, but we ended up spending the majority of the time talking about how my husband responded to me being suicidal on Friday by yelling and saying some really hurtful things.

Then, I managed to bring up feeling hurt by my t letting me leave after I expressed how suicidal I was at our last session. I told him that him letting me walk out like that made me feel like he didn’t care and didn’t take me seriously. I explained too that it takes away that safety net of knowing that even if I don’t directly tell him “I think I need to go to the hospital,” (because I likely won’t come out and say that when I need it) he will push for it if I really can’t agree to staying safe. He said that he had made a judgment call and it was the wrong judgment call. He also said something along the lines of the human being in him wants to explain all the reasons why he does of course care, etc., but what he hopes is that the way that he’s been with me in the past and will continue to be in the future will instead show his care (except he didn’t use the word care; I can’t remember the exact wording he used).

I’m not sure what to do because in the 3 years I’ve been seeing my t, I’ve brought up feeling hurt by something he said/did maybe like 5 times, and each time I’ve felt better after we talked about it. This is the first time I don’t feel better after bringing it up to him, and I’m not sure why or how to proceed now. I don’t know if it’s just my issue and something I need to get over, or if I need to talk it out more with him.

Thoughts and comments are appreciated!!

My session with T went decent today. I said in a nice way I didn’t want to come but I didn’t want to be charged a lot of money. She didn’t really say much except she indicated that I would have been charged for missing the session. She mentioned possible selective mutism and that the wires are making me so physically uncomfortable because of my autism. I was really sleep deprived so I probably said some goofy stuff. She was sitting cross legged on her office chair and now I’m wondering how she actually did that. I don’t make eye contact with her that much so I wasn’t paying attention.

I wrote out a reply and lost it. Ugh.

It sounds to me like you needed more from your T - more evidence of his care in that moment, and his saying he wants his past actions to speak for themselves just doesn't cut it? I can understand that if so. It's very hard for many people to get a sense of consistent caring, especially not from memories alone. You needed to feel it from T in that moment, to get some reassurance, and that's okay. Maybe you also need to process the anger, disappointment or whatever else you may feel at having to leave the session feeling suicidal and not having T react in his usual way that shows his care and concern. It might help to discuss all this with T and say how it's left you feeling. I think it's very normal to need constant reassurance that they care especially when you feel disappointed by the way they were with you. It doesn't take much for me to doubt my T's care, even if her text response is shorter than usual lol, then I need reassurance from her that it's okay to text as per our boundaried agreement. She reassures me that it is. If you hear the words enough, some day I think you don't need them so much anymore as you just know. But it takes a lot of reassurance to reach that point.

@SummerTime12: definitely bring it up again. It's too early to throw the baby out (with the...)

I'm sorry that talking to him about it didn't help. I've found that sometimes I need to have multiple conversations with my T (or in the past, ex-MC) about things he's said or done that have hurt or bothered me. It sometimes needs to be a longer conversation. So I suggest talking it out more.

Also, regarding his saying he wants to show vs. tell you about caring, I'm someone who wants to hear the words as well (not just from my T, from anyone). I was just talking a couple sessions ago about how now I'm finally coming to realize how some people, including him and H, show their care (or love in H's case). He said it seemed like a lot of progress.


I think it can be difficult to trust our own impressions of people and accept that they care. So words are easier. It also might help to tell him that you need the words sometimes. When do you see him next? If you think you'd have trouble saying how you're feeling, you could write/type it, then hand it to him at the start of session (or possibly email, if he allows it, but he might reply to the email saying you should discuss it next session).

Exam tomorrow and I woke up in a panic today which hasn't actually happened for a while now.

I've just been feeling much more anxious- maybe it's just cause of the coffee I've been drinking.

P.s I could tell our rupture was over yesterday when I laughed and poked fun at you saying that I think you're as nutty as I am.

I had a session last week where T brought up Christmas as I was walking out of the door. He is taking off slightly more than usual, but only slightly. But it was hard, then a day later, my supervisor thoughtlessly offered to tell me how he and his wife met. I really struggled and asked for an emergency session via Skype, which, to be fair he offered me within a couple of hours. That session was okay, not great. I was in the middle of a freakout so I don't remember much but I do remember that he seemed really disconnected at first, but then later he said (about my childhood) "you shouldn't have had to do that, you should have been having fun and learning about life" then he was very quiet and was leaning forward so I couldn't see his face then he leaned back, looking and sounding tearful and said "wow, took a while for that sadness to come through the computer screen".

Afterwards, the next day, I was struggling a lot. I mean, a LOT. I emailed him and I said that I feel that he can empathise with young echos, but not here and now echos, and how I need him to be able to understand my here and now pain too.

Today T said that I was right, that it was easier for him to empathise with the pain I felt as a child than it is to empathise with the pain i feel towards T. He said sometimes that is really hard for him. He agreed that I need him to empathise with me now. I talked about how WFS here on PC had called him talking about Christmas a "doorknob moment" and that I think it is true- he has previously had difficulty talking to me about breaks and I think that's what happened again. T said yes, he was acting from his unconscious discomfort with talking to me about breaks, and he was sorry.
I told him about a dream I had about him which was pretty graphic, and he looked a bit shocked, and I said I think it is about my worth. We linked it to the christmas break thing, I started by saying that it felt like a conversation about my worth. I tailed off and said "I don't know" T said "you DO know Echos. That conversation, as far as you were concerned was in the currency of your worth". I said, it's not my worth that I was questioning, I don't feel my worth or question what you think of it, I was hurt because you said "I AM taking the 2 weeks off" as though I was going to argue with that. If we are using the analogy of currency, if you are telling me that you are having two weeks off, I am not going to haggle.
T said "If you think I don't think you are worth much then you SHOULD haggle... because you are worth a lot".
He asked if I believe him. He asked if I thought I made a positive difference to his life, if his relationship with me meant something to him. I said I do believe that. I was quiet for a while and then I said "there are all sorts of qualifications with that". He nodded. I said I wanted to say "but you would still boot (UK slang for kick) me off a cliff if you thought it would protect the people you love. Things can make a positive difference to your life but not mean that much".
T said "Ouch". I said "is that your ouch or mine?" T said "mine I think. That hurt". I said "well, I am sorry". T said "you don't need to be sorry". I said "I dont think it was wrong for me to say it, but I am sorry it hurt you". T said "I get that.".

We talked about empathy. I said I want him to feel the pain in a way because it is the pain inside of me all the time. T said yes, and tried to reassure me that it doesnt stay with him in the same way it does with me. I said I feel selfish, but that doesnt feel like he really feels the pain. We talked more about empathy, and spending my whole life walking the tightrope of needing the connection and fearing hurting others.
We didn't really reach a resolution as such, the end was nearing.
I said I am sad we are not wrapping this up neatly. T said "me too, I just want to give you a big hug" I said "let's do it then" and we stood up and he squeezed me so tight. I said "I love you" he said "I love you too, and I'm sorry I hurt you" I said "it's okay" and he said "it's not okay. You deserve better." We looked at each other, said goodbye and I left.

(I forgot to mention, it was so cold there today, I had to wear my coat. I think T felt a bit bad for not being able to warm up the building enough. He said he had been away for two days and thr building had been sat cold. He said the walls were cold)